Bangkok-Rayong high speed rail proposed for PPP Fast Track status

[webfact]

Bangkok-Rayong high speed rail proposed for PPP Fast Track status

Bangkok, 27 January 2016 (NNT) - Officials have proposed including the Bangkok-Rayong high speed rail project in the Public, Private Partnership (PPP) Fast Track program to encourage private investment.

At a recent meeting of a committee formed to draft policy on private spending on public sector projects chaired by Finance Minister Apisak Tantiworawong, 5 major projects of the Ministry of Transport seeking inclusion in the PPP Fast Track were discussed.

Apisak later revealed that the five, which include the Khae Rai-Minburi pink electric line and Ladprao-Samrong yellow electric line, will likely be included in the fast track by February this year. Only the Blue Line has hit an obstacle as its information has yet to be reviewed. Relevant agencies have been tasked with urgently remedying the delay.

The meeting also resolved to include the Bangkok-Rayong high speed rail project, worth 152 billion baht, into the PPP Fast Track program. The Ministry of Transport has been told to study the investment and submit a proposal to the committee at a later date.


-- NNT 2016-01-27

[anon467848]

With all these proposed mega dollar projects, the incumbent Govt. won't want to hand over power in a hurry.

In Thailand there is some serious money to made with the usual kickbacks, facilitation payments, whatever you want to call them, on Govt. projects...

Edited January 27, 2016 by merlin2002

[ratcatcher]

Now we will have 3 different tracks heading east out of Bangkok.

1. The ground level State Railway line to Chachoengsao Jct.

2. The Elevated Airport Link to Swampy and

3. Now a proposed "High Speed" Rail project to Rayong (Pattaya).

[neitmoj]

I'm no rail engineer but high-speed trains over such a short distance make no sense. By the time the thing has crawled away from Hualamphong and out of the Bangkok mess and picked up speed, it'll be time to stop at BKK airport (35 km), then Chonburi (45), Pattaya (60), perhaps U-Tapao (45), and finally Rayong (25). It wouldn't be much slower by direct bus to each place. Running truly high-speed nonstop trains from Bangkok to Rayong would be absurd. What the region desperately needs is a modern broad gauge, dual track railroad with frequent, modern, and affordable passenger trains, rather like the airport train to KL airport (top speed: 160 km). If this folly ever happens, its main purpose will be to enrich a few lucky people beyond the dreams of avarice.

[Ricardo]

Public Private Partnership has been a bit of a disaster in the UK, I hope that Thailand can find other sources of finance, and ways to instill good efficient management, but I'm not optimistic.

[nong38]

I'm no rail engineer but high-speed trains over such a short distance make no sense. By the time the thing has crawled away from Hualamphong and out of the Bangkok mess and picked up speed, it'll be time to stop at BKK airport (35 km), then Chonburi (45), Pattaya (60), perhaps U-Tapao (45), and finally Rayong (25). It wouldn't be much slower by direct bus to each place. Running truly high-speed nonstop trains from Bangkok to Rayong would be absurd. What the region desperately needs is a modern broad gauge, dual track railroad with frequent, modern, and affordable passenger trains, rather like the airport train to KL airport (top speed: 160 km). If this folly ever happens, its main purpose will be to enrich a few lucky people beyond the dreams of avarice.

That the line is being built is good news but as pointed out it does need to be high speed ( whatever is deemed high speed ) especially as it will almost certainly be used to service the ports and business areas along the way and in Rayong or its does not make sense, seems like it needs some more thought about where its going and what its going do. First lets say it will be standard gauge and it will be twin track, where the stations will be in Bangkok, Rayong and in between, where the servicing be done for the trains and who will do it, having to send them out of the country for major overhauls is not acceptable.

[Pib]

I think passenger rail systems are more geared just to generate govt spending, constructions jobs, and numerous contracts with creative cost analysis saying it will pay for itself over the long term. But in realty it so often turns into a taxpayers money pit.

[lonewolf99]

Once again all Blow and no show.....never happen.

They built a sky train from the Airport to a massive white elephant called Makasan..... they had a direct train that thundered in and out to a place no one wanted to go to or come from. No more. so half of the Sky train terminal at the aiport is not used. They just use the city line.

The brothers from China want to make a link to Beijing, The former extreme railway builders from Nippon want to come back and make links thoughout the country and now this dream....

As already pointed out trains dont get upto full speed straight away and do a dead stop. IF and it is a really big IF, they ever get this dream off the paper stage they will have to service, Laem Chabang, Chonburi, Sri Ratcha, Pattaya, Satahip and Rayong.

They would be far better laying two parallel modern guage tracks along the track line they have now and have decent modern trains travellng up and down from Bangkok. But cut out the 74 ? stops they have when they get into the city itself. Simple.....but the last time Thais took advise from a farrang was in ....well never happened ever, has it? and never will.

[Robbie Dye]

Depends what they deem as high speed! Based on the current train 150 mph would be like lightning!!

[phoenixdoglover]

The high speed rail from Bangkok to Rayong appears to be without a clear justification. However, we could easily build a plan around it. Here goes:

- establish an economic zone in and around Pattaya

- legalize casino gambling in the zone

- legalize "adult entertainment" in the zone

- construct a high speed express rail line, central Bangkok, Swampy, Pattaya.

- create advertising campaign, "Bringing the people to Happiness"

- hold a ribbon cutting ceremony with some scantily clad beauties

- serve beer on the train

I'm not kidding.

[trainman34014]

More bullshit for public consumption....there has to be more each week !

[chrisandsu]

Did we not hear about the high speed train from

Bangkok to pak Chong ? What happened to that ? Oh you know what happened to that ? Some people got seriously rich by land speculation going through the roof . I'm not complaining as my wife owns land (not me of course) in Rayong so if any one wants to buy contact me as the price will be going up by the minute ......

[thairay]

PPP.Public money to Private accounts,my kind of Partnership.

[sandrabbit]

I'm praying for a rail link from Rayong to Bangkok which stops at the airport or a link to it. It doesn't need to be fast and I don't mind it stopping at Map ta Phut, Sattahip, Pattaya, Laem Chabang, Chonburi etc if it was convenient. The station is proposed to be situated in Map ta Phut which then is completely useless as it's the other side of the city in an industrial estate so I might as well get a taxi to the airport, only benefit to use the train would be price. As there are more flights going out of U Tapao it looks like it would be easier to fly from there than use the train to go to swampy. It's the same problem with Rayong's immigration office, again in Map ta Phut instead of where most of the other government offices are, including Amphor, in the city. If they're going to do these infrastructure projects at least think about them and plan them properly regarding route, speed & station locations. It doesn't need to be a high speed link, I would be happy with the skytrain but obviously that's not economical to Rayong.

[Srikcir]

PPP.Public money to Private accounts,my kind of Partnership.

P3 is just a hybrid joint venture, albeit with little or no government funding or borrowing but 100% government owneship.

My kind of partnership.

[Srikcir]

Finally after borrowing funds from foreign governments for infrastructure projects that has minimal benefit for GDP growth, P3 is being used.

Unlike a joint venture, P3 essentially involves little or no upfront government investment and gives the government 100% ownership on turnover. P3 benefits far outweigh the risks although requires much more government oversight to assure adherence to design and construction quality.

Pro's¹

- faster project completion and reduced delays on infrastructure projects

- attracts more private investment due to greater return of investment when compared to traditional methods

- more accurate expected life-cycle cost analysis and scheduling for the operation and maintenance component of the project

- risks are better identified during the initial conceptual stages to determine the feasibility of a project

- operational and project execution risk is born entirely on the private investors

- early completion is expected under expected budget, reducing the claims and change order process

- government funds can be prioritized instead to socio-economic areas

- avoids government deficits

- private investors bear the for compliance to quality standards through expected life-cycle of the project

- allows a reduced tax payment from users

- allows the government to direct the expected function of the project in accordance to their own interests

Con's

- the government will the pay the price to transfer project risks to the private investors

- only very large contractors with specialized design & construction expertise can take on the high project risks

- the government must have highly specialized personnel and contracting experts to oversee the entire project life-cycle

- private investment profits may become excessive should little or no reserves for contractor contingencies be needed

P3 was originally considered for the dual Chinese rail project during the Abhisit regime, followed by the idea of a joint venture during the Yingluck regime. The Prayut regime chose to instead borrow funds from China; thus, inhibiting any economic benefits. Nice to see the government has returned to some economic sensibility with the B-R project.

1 - http://construction.about.com/od/Government/a/Public-Private-Partnership-Pros-And-Cons.htm

[rubl]

The high speed rail from Bangkok to Rayong appears to be without a clear justification. However, we could easily build a plan around it. Here goes:

- establish an economic zone in and around Pattaya

- legalize casino gambling in the zone

- legalize "adult entertainment" in the zone

- construct a high speed express rail line, central Bangkok, Swampy, Pattaya.

- create advertising campaign, "Bringing the people to Happiness"

- hold a ribbon cutting ceremony with some scantily clad beauties

- serve beer on the train

I'm not kidding.

If I remember correctly the private parties willing to invest / build the 'higher speed' dual track link BKK-Rayong insisted that the original BKK-Pattaya link proposed was extended to Rayong to make it more worthwhile. I guess freight can be of interest.

[rubl]

Finally after borrowing funds from foreign governments for infrastructure projects that has minimal benefit for GDP growth, P3 is being used.

Unlike a joint venture, P3 essentially involves little or no upfront government investment and gives the government 100% ownership on turnover. P3 benefits far outweigh the risks although requires much more government oversight to assure adherence to design and construction quality.

Pro's¹

- faster project completion and reduced delays on infrastructure projects

- attracts more private investment due to greater return of investment when compared to traditional methods

- more accurate expected life-cycle cost analysis and scheduling for the operation and maintenance component of the project

- risks are better identified during the initial conceptual stages to determine the feasibility of a project

- operational and project execution risk is born entirely on the private investors

- early completion is expected under expected budget, reducing the claims and change order process

- government funds can be prioritized instead to socio-economic areas

- avoids government deficits

- private investors bear the for compliance to quality standards through expected life-cycle of the project

- allows a reduced tax payment from users

- allows the government to direct the expected function of the project in accordance to their own interests

Con's

- the government will the pay the price to transfer project risks to the private investors

- only very large contractors with specialized design & construction expertise can take on the high project risks

- the government must have highly specialized personnel and contracting experts to oversee the entire project life-cycle

- private investment profits may become excessive should little or no reserves for contractor contingencies be needed

P3 was originally considered for the dual Chinese rail project during the Abhisit regime, followed by the idea of a joint venture during the Yingluck regime. The Prayut regime chose to instead borrow funds from China; thus, inhibiting any economic benefits. Nice to see the government has returned to some economic sensibility with the B-R project.

1 - http://construction.about.com/od/Government/a/Public-Private-Partnership-Pros-And-Cons.htm

Chose? I'm not sure PM Prayut had much choice.

[Langsuan Man]

Still waiting for a real map of the route.

The question has always been is the Bangkok-Rayong route going to utilize the current right of way (single track) or are they going to build it on the other side of Khao Chi Chan (Buddha Mountain), where they are widening 331 or along the Route 36 corridor which is a straighter shot to Rayong

Since the whole purpose is to unite Map Tha Put, Laem Chabang with China via Laos I doubt any consideration will be made for passenger traffic

That will be left to the Japanese consortium that is also investing in "high speed " rail in Thailand specifically Bangkok to Chiang Mai

[SABloke]

Can't the government just build it. PPP just becomes so expensive for Joe Average to be practical. Here's an example. I recently did some calculation and to take the BTS then MRT then BTS from Nonthaburi to Siam would be about 120 Baht (240 return). So a group of 4 friends costs 1000 Baht !!! Now if the government had built it all the cost would probably be 70% of that (and you could probably get universal ticket which would be way more practical than the current system)

[dbrenn]

With all these proposed mega dollar projects, the incumbent Govt. won't want to hand over power in a hurry.

In Thailand there is some serious money to made with the usual kickbacks, facilitation payments, whatever you want to call them, on Govt. projects...

Very true. The army will need to stay in power for at least another fifteen constitution rewrites. Could take decades while they fill their pockets.

[stander]

Will this Chinese bridge girder erection machine be used.

[taony]

I'm praying for a rail link from Rayong to Bangkok which stops at the airport or a link to it. It doesn't need to be fast and I don't mind it stopping at Map ta Phut, Sattahip, Pattaya, Laem Chabang, Chonburi etc if it was convenient. The station is proposed to be situated in Map ta Phut which then is completely useless as it's the other side of the city in an industrial estate so I might as well get a taxi to the airport, only benefit to use the train would be price. As there are more flights going out of U Tapao it looks like it would be easier to fly from there than use the train to go to swampy. It's the same problem with Rayong's immigration office, again in Map ta Phut instead of where most of the other government offices are, including Amphor, in the city. If they're going to do these infrastructure projects at least think about them and plan them properly regarding route, speed & station locations. It doesn't need to be a high speed link, I would be happy with the skytrain but obviously that's not economical to Rayong.

Think? What's that?