Working Without Permit

[The Gentleman Scamp]

With the ever changing laws getting stricter and stricter (I recently heard that Thaksin wants only Thai nationals teaching English) I am worried that my permit may not be granted upon my return to the kingdom next month. A company have agreed to take me upon a reccommendation but I've said i'll only work if they can get me a permit.

I am aware that many teach without a permit as I have done in other countries. I am a good teacher for the level I teach and have lots of experience with kids.

I don't have a degree - only good English GCSE's a National Diploma in Performing arts and a TEFL intro certificate. I know a bloke who's very shy and crap with kids who has never travelled but he could teach legally as he's got a degree in farmyard mechanics!

The other stupid thing is that there is a massive demand for English teachers as many are leaving due to the harsh rules and the teachers that exist already have classes of up to 50 kids to cope with! I can't spend 4 years of my life obtaining a degree just so I can legally sing "Head, shoulders knees & toes" and hold up flashcards to a gaggle of toddlers. I'm already 30 and I want to settle in some sort of career.

Anyway, say I don't get granted a permit - what am I risking if I still decide to teach?

A big fine?

Deportation?

Bang Kwang?

Your help and advice is both respected and appreciated.

[The Gentleman Scamp]

George? Dr PP? Anyone?

[sabaijai]

Are English teachers really being forced out by new regs in Thailand? I don't see it, haven't heard about it at all, except via rumor on this forum. I've several acquaintances in Thailand who teach English, all are happily employed. None have had any problems renewing their work permits this year. We'll see what happens after the new income regs come into effect.

I suppose plenty of foreigners do teach without a work permit but if your employer is legit I don't see any reason why they won't be able to arrange one for you. If income is something the officials examine closely (I haven't heard any evidence that they do), I'm sure the school will have a way of keeping up proper appearances.

Also I'm fairly sure it wasn't Thaksin who suggested that Thais alone could handle English teaching in Thailand, rather another offical, the education minister perhaps? I forget but it didn't appear to come from Thaksin or even Thai Rak Thai, and as I recall the source was quickly criticised from several quarters.

I can't answer your question about the penalty for working without a work permit, but I'm curious myself. Most of the people I hear about working without permits are in NGOs, particularly Christian-inspired NGOs. Of course they're working illegally, but most won't admit it. Just guessing, I assume the penalty can't be too high, otherwise there wouldn't be so many people doing it.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

George? Dr PP? Anyone?

There are no rumours that suggest that work permits will be withheld from teachers. If you were caught working without a permit, the probable outcome would be deportation.

[astral]

A few days in the wonderful Suan Plu Hilton.

The deportation at your own expense.

[Sunbelt Asia]

It is a serious legal offence to work in the Kingdom of Thailand without a valid Thai work permit, it can be punishable with three months imprisonment, a 5,000 Baht fine and subsequent expulsion out of Thailand indefinitely.

www.sunbeltasia.com

[The Gentleman Scamp]

Thankyou for your replies.

If I don't get a permit then I will just have to come home and re-evaluate things, I don't want to take the risk - especially after reading that Warren Fellows book.

My company is legit but have said it would take six weeks for the permit process to go through, six weeks in which they will expect me to work and prove myself which puts me in an awkward position. I can understand that they want to see how I get on before getting my permit, which they may have to pay for, but it puts me at risk for six weeks.

Aside from spending four years of my life obtaining a degree, what are the alternatives? - And by alternatives I mean other countries as well as alternative qualifications which don't take so long to get.

[samran]

Thankyou for your replies.

If I don't get a permit then I will just have to come home and re-evaluate things, I don't want to take the risk - especially after reading that Warren Fellows book.

My company is legit but have said it would take six weeks for the permit process to go through, six weeks in which they will expect me to work and prove myself which puts me in an awkward position. I can understand that they want to see how I get on before getting my permit, which they may have to pay for, but it puts me at risk for six weeks.

Aside from spending four years of my life obtaining a degree, what are the alternatives? - And by alternatives I mean other countries as well as alternative qualifications which don't take so long to get.

Gent,

I wouldn't stress, especially if you are working for a reputable school. My NZ GF who used to teach primary school in LOS just told me it takes a while for schools to process the WP's. She worked for a reputable school, nevertheless, the whole procees took a while. While they went about getting the permit for her, she shared your concerns. All turned out fine though.

I'd personally take the view that if they have bothered to start the process of getting a WP, that they already have confience in you.

[Nam Kao]

Can anybody tell me where I can find the official law (in thai) regarding

falangs can not work without a work permit

I want to print it out / carry it around and produce it when my wife or someone else asks me

to do something

This is a beautiful thing..

Thanks

nam

[stevehaigh]

I wonder if you were to get a Khao San Road degree, would thai imigration have any way to figure out it wasn't real?

Better yet, get one from the Universite of Pheonix in the US, it wil cost more than Khau San Road but it is a "real" degree.

[The Gentleman Scamp]

A Khaosan degree is an option, but surely the powers that be are aware of this long running scam and if found out then you can't really prove your innocence. Surely a better way would be to get a real degree of a friend who has one, change the name and photocopy or fax it. That said they could still check up on it so it would have to be a friend with the same name as myself.

Incedentally, my Thai friends here in England tell me that a degree is not a definate requirement for a WP. Hope they're right.

[lopburi3]

get a real degree of a friend who has one, change the name and photocopy or fax it

Believe should point out that 'fraud' is a much more serious offense than you might think and he will very likely do long jail time if found out.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

get a real degree of a friend who has one, change the name and photocopy or fax it

Believe should point out that 'fraud' is a much more serious offense than you might think and he will very likely do long jail time if found out.

Agree wholeheartedly Lop.

[Guest IT Manager]

Faking the degree was dealt with sometime back, and there have been endless debates about it.

It's interesting that a friend of mine is applying for a work permit premised on a course he did in day-trading. My current view is, that certificate needs to be able to be checked on. Khao San Road degrees actually look like it, and it wasn't a big time back that one of the several TEFL organisations was handing out the (valid) TEFL certificate, and a (forged) degree, which made little sense to me at the time.

[The Gentleman Scamp]

A Khaosan degree is an option, but surely the powers that be are aware of this long running scam and if found out then you can't really prove your innocence.

So it turns out that is the case; just as well I was never daft enough to buy one.

Spoken to Thai friends here and they seem confident I will get one on the qualifications I have, but I may have to prove myself first.

Fingers crossed.

[kenkannif]

You may want to have a look at this thread (if it's okay to link here? I use your lots links all the time...thanks!).

http://aries.lunarpages.com/~tithai2/cgi-b...t=ST;f=9;t=6547

This is my response to what quals do you need:

Basically mate it depends on a few things.

Who you're teaching (ages of students)

What you're teaching (EFL. maths, P.E. etc.)

Where you're teaching (at a business like a hotel they can probably get you a WP without a degre. Also Kindergartens are supposed to be easier to get a WP for without a degree. Other government schools DON'T always require a degree, so it varies quite alot from school to school and to be honest some schools can say you're teaching this (when you're actually teaching that) to get you a work permit etc. etc. so from one type of school to another you may need (or they may say you need) different qualifications. If you're outside of Bangkok provincially then it's a lot easier to get one without a degree I know people that have done this in the last few months.)

Also two other main points:

The relationship the school has with the MoE and your relationship with your employer (if you're a good egg they'll try their damndest (sp?) to get you a WP without a degree...I know people that have managed this in BKK....not a lot mind you).

While Imm may see your paperwork (degree etc.) I don't think they're actually that fussed about that (it's more for the MoE)...I think they just get it in the bulk of all the other paperwork you need to get a WP!

Generally (IME) if you tell the mid-range schools you have a degree they'll take you on face value...they generally (for sure not all) only REALLY NEED to see it/have it if they're going to put in for a work permit for you.

Also degree comparable qualifications (Brit A level is equiv to an American degree for example * can SOMETIMES be used in place of a degree...but again you need your school to be willing to push for you when the MoE hasn't got a clue what a HND or NVQ is. Throw as much paperwork at them as you can and cross your fingers!

Funny thing is I don't think you actually HAVE to have a degree if you want to set up and run your own school (and thus obtain a WP).

* For (American) people with no sense of humour this is a joke, repeat this is a joke (kind of)!