Suggestions on dealing with at-capacity parking in condo building

[bobbin]

Unlike many condominium buildings in Bangkok, which control parking through the use of office issued parking stickers, our building has operated our parking on a free first-come basis. While this has worked in the past when there were fewer vehicles, we are now bumping up against capacity on a daily basis. We are belatedly trying to formulate a workable policy on parking. Under pressure, we have come up with a few ideas, but perhaps there are options we have not considered...

Firstly, we will institute a parking sticker policy, to ensure that only residents are using the parking spaces. This requires registration of vehicle number plates. Best way to accomplish this?

Secondly, setting aside 15-20% of parking spaces for paid reserved parking. This would leave 80-85% available for free parking, while generating extra income for the Juristic. There are owners/tenants willing to pay for assured parking.

Thirdly, using a quota system with waiting list, for the free parking. This is trickier to manage. Do we base this on length of ownership/ residency, as seems logical? This will have to be managed from the office, as new owners/tenants would have to be informed that there is no space available for the parking of their cars or pickups. We have more leeway with motorbikes. This is the option that has the most potential for dispute among owners/tenants...

Forthly, restricting juristic staff parking to day use only. There are lower level staff who are driving cars/trucks to work, filling available spaces that owners/tenants could use.

Any other ideas? Our parking spaces are finite. We cannot increase the number of spaces, while there are still unoccupied/unsold units in the building. Unless we have a workable policy the problem will only worsen with time.

[trogers]

Good luck. And quite a few units have more than one car...

[KhaoNiaw]

I've lived in condos where they have a one parking sticker per bedroom policy i.e. one-bedroom gets one sticker, two-bedroom = two stickers etc. Difficult to implement retroactively though.

Edited February 2, 2016 by KhaoNiaw

[trogers]

I've lived in condos where they have a one parking sticker per bedroom policy i.e. one-bedroom gets one sticker, two-bedroom = two stickers etc. Difficult to implement retroactively though.

That's provided you have enough parking lots for all the units. Most condo projects, especially those of mainly shoebox-sized units, have only a third.

[bobbin]

Good luck. And quite a few units have more than one car...

Good point... I forgot to address that issue.

We are thinking that everyone gets one sticker/one car. More than one car, you have to pay monthly fee for each additional car/sticker.

We have one owner who seems to "collect" vehicles and occupies approximately 10% of the parking himself! He is not going to be happy about the reorganization!

[KittenKong]

Issue stickers. One sticker = one car = one chanote. The stickers should show the vehicle registration number and should be non-transferable. Anyone with two cars can park the second one elsewhere, or sell it, or buy an extra sticker at the office.

Assuming that you have a security guard and a barrier, post notices that any vehicle without a sticker will be refused access in x days time and instruct security to enforce this rigorously. They should allow no exceptions. Employ extra security for a month or two if necessary. Make sure that the building manager patrols the car park several times a day and fines the security guard if any vehicles without stickers are found.

Allocate part of the car park for numbered parking slots and charge a yearly fee (5-10,000B?) to co-owners who want one of their own. If take-up is good then allocate more space or charge more.

Clamp any vehicles without stickers or parked in the wrong area and impose a serious fine to remove the clamp. Only remove clamps during regular office hours, and tell security to take their time about it.

[fletchsmile]

When we bought our condo it was part of the original sales agreement how many spaces you got, as a new condo. The bigger the condo the more spaces. Our spaces were also divided into "fixed" i.e. numbered so only you can park there, and "variable/ non-fixed" so anyone with entitlement could park there.

To prove entitlement, a sticker system works to an extent. We had one sticker colour for fixed and one for variable/non-fixed. This is a good basic start.

After the condo opened, they then decided to split the variable spaces into "inside" the building and "outside" requiring different coloured stickers. Only owners could park inside, and had either a "fixed" or "variable" sticker for inside and "variable" different colour for outside. So we've 3 colours of stickers LOL

Enforcing things in Thailand though is always an issue. Whatever system you come up with, people will try and cheat, even when as it our case it was part of the purchase contract or has been agreed. People generally daren't park in your fixed space as you're legally entitled to that as per your purchase agreement, and anyway would be a one on one personal confrontation. Variable spaces were open season though. People without entitlement would still park.

So you get into how to enforce it. Security guards generally won't challenge the owners, so you can't expect them to do much. This is Thailand, so they're hardly going to challenge someone driving a merc or BMW or even a general owner given that's who effectively pays their salary. If they challenge the wrong person, the nature of people here is many will try and get the poor guard fired. It's different to a shopping complex as the same people are here every day. As security guards wouldn't challenge owners, we had people suggesting that the security guard gets fined each time for not enforcing the enforcing LOL. Typical Thai solution of pick on the small guy. The problem is obviously down to the owners not the guards.

Our condo decided to buy expensive barriers and infra red style access cards. One to enter the condo grounds and another for entering the building/ inside spaces. No doubt someone took a cut of the acquisition cost of a few hundred thousand baht. They also break down from time to time, and we've repurchased "better" ones, where no doubt someone else takes a cut.

Anyway, at least this now stops people without entitlement entering the building and using the inside spaces if not entitled to. This suits us as we bought a condo with one fixed and one variable entitlement and we only have one car.

Outside the building you'll also get people wanting to park temporarily or visitors or people who have more cars permanently than entitlement. Seems to make sense to me to only allow these outside and give inside priority to owners. Let outside be the bit where people without entitlement park.

By this time I lost interest as we're already sorted and got we agreed and paid for and aren't the type of people to cheat or take advantage. Next they had a system where people could rent outside spaces on a permanent basis/ monthly. Anyone else outside has to pay after so many hours or by the day. Even then I think some people were finding ways to cheat and take money. So somewhere along the line all owners got issued with parking stamps in case they had temporary visitors LOL

Trying to implement retroactively will be a nightmare as people will only want what's best for themselves, and won't agree unless it suits them. So whatever you come up with I suggest you get it voted for and approved at an AGM or EGM with required number of attendees and votes.

As you can see from ours, whatever you do, someone will come up with something else, and there always seems to be another step, particularly if someone thinks they can cheat and benefit from it. Expect some people to find ways to be on the take as well LOL

Cheers

Fletch

Edited February 2, 2016 by fletchsmile

[fletchsmile]

Good luck. And quite a few units have more than one car...

Good point... I forgot to address that issue.

We are thinking that everyone gets one sticker/one car. More than one car, you have to pay monthly fee for each additional car/sticker.

We have one owner who seems to "collect" vehicles and occupies approximately 10% of the parking himself! He is not going to be happy about the reorganization!

If you think about it logically and fairly (not always the answer I know here) the condo and land is jointly owned by the owners. Those with larger properties effectively own a higher proportion of the land and condo.

In addition, the larger the condo, the larger your maintenance fees so they pay more for the upkeep. Also likely that they have more votes as well at AGM. So giving everyone a space as a starting point may be OK, but you can't fairly expect a guy with a 5 bed penthouse to get the same as a guy with a 1 bed studio. So in some way it needs in some way to link back to land ownership, upkeep fees paid, and votes.

Linking it all back to voting rights is how you get whatever is communally decided approved. Very unlikely the guy with 10% to himself will get a system approved that suits him. But if and when everyone votes, that's just his tough luck.

[bobbin]

While it is reasonable to associate size/number of units to the issue of parking spaces, it's unlikely to figure into the plan due to ratio of units to space available. That's where the purchase of extra entitlement stickers would come into play. Larger owners could purchase a second sticker or opt for an additional assured parking space up to a maximum of two per owner.

Enforcement is always going to be a bit tricky but we can purchase the first Solex wheel clamp from the fees collected for the assured parking spaces. Done correctly, it would be an additional revenue stream.

As there are no regulations in place for parking at present, we are planning on implementing the new policy in advance of the AGM, where it may or may not become an issue. Our AGM's are never that well attended due to owner apathy..

[prk888]

one question

I always thought car parking space in a condo building was "common property' just like lifts, corridors and pools and therefore cannot be allocated or reserved. Is it in yours? Your answer may help determine what options are available.

Definitely a tricky one but some good ideas so far.

Asking lower paid staff to confront and e.g. affix wheel clamps etc would be contentious.

Not allowing staff to take up space seems sensible under these conditions

Whatever you do do ensure your plans and decisions are posted clearly around the car park etc. and well before implementation. Maybe a flier on every car's windscreen EVERY day for weeks !!

In the UK large 12' square hard-to-remove stickers pasted on driver's side windscreen and side window worked wonders when I was there

Good luck and i'm sure many on TV will want to read your decision and its results.

[Crash999]

Units should have an allocation assigned to them. Commonly large units get 2 or sometimes more spaces.

In theory it should work fine. Problem is some people don't have cars, others have a few, and some people let friends park. One way to control this is to have access cards and a barrier. Room gets a certain amount of cards assigned and they are reset if cards are lost. That cuts down on random parking from outsiders.

For over allocation the only thing you can do is try to associate each unit with the cars they own by asking owners to register. Then you're left with floaters that aren't assigned to anyone- typically over allocation or non residents. At that point you can get guards involved to track down owners and ask building management to talk with them about not parking extra cars.

But good luck. This being Thailand it's difficult to stop people breaking the rules.

[rocketman777]

"Secondly, setting aside 15-20% of parking spaces for paid reserved parking."

I think you will find that this is illegal as it counteracts the Condominium Act. The Parking area is common ground - that is owned by all the unit owners.

Unit owners pay for the upkeep and use of common ground via their annual maintenance fees

[Crash999]

"Secondly, setting aside 15-20% of parking spaces for paid reserved parking."

I think you will find that this is illegal as it counteracts the Condominium Act. The Parking area is common ground - that is owned by all the unit owners.

Unit owners pay for the upkeep and use of common ground via their annual maintenance fees

Plus most buildings don't have extra spaces. In theory if an owner wants to buy a car but all spaces are used including some folks who are paying the owner still had the right to park his car.

I remember reading about a startup a few years ago where people could rent out their parking allocation. That would help.

[TechnikaIII]

It is so liberating to be without a car. Since I left Australia in 1992 and moved to Norway, I've done without one. I moved to Thailand 2010. The bicycle was the most precious item to be loaded into the shipping container. It's brilliant. Now back in Melbourne, I don't miss a car at all.

Public transport and/or bicycle = no parking problems, ever.

Bangkok is great. I love it and get around, finding everything I need by using the Sky Train and MRT, plus walking.

And I save absolutely heaps.

Edited February 2, 2016 by TechnikaIII

[natway09]

Go back to the original bills of sale & find out how (or if) the car parks allocated.

Building I am in some of the apartments did not buy a car park & have no actual rights.

The Juristic Manager needs to get involved with the committee & decide how to allocate once my suggestion above clarified

[phil2407]

Why not do what they do in the uk insert some collapsible metal poles for each car parking space between the concrete pillars with locks on all allocate 1 space for condo - with deposit for key - those who need more either pay for it or park elsewhere

[Ulic]

Maximum 1 car per unit, no storing cars (cars must move, once per week) There used to

be 3-4 cars with an inch of grime and flat tires in parking spaces where I am here in

Jomtien. They are no longer here. I drive a scooter so no issues for me but there are not

one spot per unit. Best of luck getting thing settled fairly. Deeded parking when buying a

unit is the norm around the world these days. My buddy bought two for his condo in

Toronto. 50 k 25 years ago. They were also in line so it was up to you to jockey cars in

and out.

[bobbin]

"Secondly, setting aside 15-20% of parking spaces for paid reserved parking."

I think you will find that this is illegal as it counteracts the Condominium Act. The Parking area is common ground - that is owned by all the unit owners.

Unit owners pay for the upkeep and use of common ground via their annual maintenance fees

Ah.. a detail man.

The parking spaces are indeed common ground. There are no provisions for parking in the chanotes. In this case nothing is being sold off, only allocated, with the revenue benefiting the Juristic as a whole. That's also the reason we would like to limit the percentage of space that would be allocated. The larger by far percentage would remain unreserved..

But we have a problem that is only going to get worse and are trying to come up with a solution...

[KittenKong]

Allocating parking spaces for a fee is no different to renting out pool sun-loungers by the day. The only legal aspect to be careful of is that all co-owners should have an equal right to buy a slot and that no one is charged more or less for a slot than anyone else.

[ToS2014]

Parking solutions for a condo complex: move to a house.

[sead]

Parkingslots should have vehicles reg number visible. Contact external security to remove cars parked on wrong slot. They usually do it for free because they make good money.

[smutcakes]

Surely in the sales and purchase agreements when people bought their condo it allocated one fixed, one non fixed etc depending on the unit size?

Sounds like you are going down a dangerous path of renting spaces out if there are not enough already. If you are renting spaces out make sure you have the appropiate General Meeting approval, process for allocating, selecting who rents them out etc.

Parking is a very sensitive issue and when the turd starts to fly you can be sure fingers will be pointed about the renting out and monies from it.

[KittenKong]

Surely in the sales and purchase agreements when people bought their condo it allocated one fixed, one non fixed etc depending on the unit size?

Sounds like you are going down a dangerous path of renting spaces out if there are not enough already. If you are renting spaces out make sure you have the appropiate General Meeting approval, process for allocating, selecting who rents them out etc.

Parking is a very sensitive issue and when the turd starts to fly you can be sure fingers will be pointed about the renting out and monies from it.

It is rare for outdoor parking spaces to be allocated at sale time as these are generally not sold but are co-owned. Also most buildings have nowhere near enough space to provide one slot per unit. (There are some buildings where parking spaces under the building are for sale, and there obviously one buys a particular space and it figures on the chanote.)

GM co-owner approval is not required for matters relating to parking stickers and parking payments. It is entirely within the committee's remit to decide this (though of course co-owners can always bitch about it at a GM).

I find it unlikely that many co-owners would complain about an optional system for allocating spaces for a fee, as everyone who wants to benefit can and those who dont want to need not pay anything at all.

[Delight]

The committee can alter the House Rules with no reference to the co –owners.

Parking rules can be can be embraced within the House rules.

In my view a parking permit is the best course of action.

The permit is simply created on a PC . Complicated logos are best

Probably about 125mm x 125 mm

The Registration Number and an Expiry date will feature. A life of between 3 to 6 months is probably best.. The room number can also be detailed if required

This permit is then placed inside a laminate style envelope and sealed. The permit is placed on the inside of the car windscreen or in the commercially available cylindrical holder which can be secured to a motor bike number plate. The Vehicle registration number and expiry date to be clearly visible

One permit per Condominium Title Deed for a car. Maybe 2 for motorbikes

The vehicle registration book is required to qualify for a permit.

No rental cars.

Staff will be granted a motorbike permit only

Security to monitor the permits

Problems –such as apparently abandoned vehicles will have to be referred to the committee,

If any costs are incurred to remove vehicles then that money comes from the common fees or the cost is shared between the other permit holders. That part may have to be agreed at a co –owner general meeting..

Notices to advise of vehicle removal to be placed in the car park.

A sign to specify Permit Holders Only to be place at the car park entrance

No clamping. Too complicated

Condo Car parks are common area and cannot be rented out unless a 50% agreement is reached at a co –owners general meeting. Even with 50% vote the arrangement over long term will be very complicated.

Car park spaces are not deck chairs from a commercial/legal point of view

Edited February 5, 2016 by Delight

[smutcakes]

Surely in the sales and purchase agreements when people bought their condo it allocated one fixed, one non fixed etc depending on the unit size?

Sounds like you are going down a dangerous path of renting spaces out if there are not enough already. If you are renting spaces out make sure you have the appropiate General Meeting approval, process for allocating, selecting who rents them out etc.

Parking is a very sensitive issue and when the turd starts to fly you can be sure fingers will be pointed about the renting out and monies from it.

It is rare for outdoor parking spaces to be allocated at sale time as these are generally not sold but are co-owned. Also most buildings have nowhere near enough space to provide one slot per unit. (There are some buildings where parking spaces under the building are for sale, and there obviously one buys a particular space and it figures on the chanote.)

GM co-owner approval is not required for matters relating to parking stickers and parking payments. It is entirely within the committee's remit to decide this (though of course co-owners can always bitch about it at a GM).

I find it unlikely that many co-owners would complain about an optional system for allocating spaces for a fee, as everyone who wants to benefit can and those who dont want to need not pay anything at all.

If you are renting out car parking spaces, you are 'making benefit' from Common Area and require General Meeting approval. A lot of buildings dont do this, but if they are short of parking already and it is already starting to cause an issue then they should make sure it is dealt with properly.

How could you possibly enforce or stop people parking in the 'paid' for spaces. They are common area, so you or anyone else has as much right to use them as anyone else. If you want to make it official and rent them out, then you need majority approval at an General Meeting.

It is not within the Committee's power to simply remove the use of Common Area and rent it out to individual owners.

Clause 48 (7) of the Condo Act

Edited February 5, 2016 by smutcakes

[Delight]

When we bought our condo it was part of the original sales agreement how many spaces you got, as a new condo. The bigger the condo the more spaces. Our spaces were also divided into "fixed" i.e. numbered so only you can park there, and "variable/ non-fixed" so anyone with entitlement could park there.

I cannot see how it can be legal for a developer to allocate common area

Is your space detailed on your Condo Title Deed ? If so then it is not common area-in which case all is ok. The contract alone is not sufficient-given that it may well be illegal.If it is illegal then in theory you could sue the developer

If not on the condo title deed then a 50% co -owner vote at a general meeting would have to agree to this action. That is a 50% vote for every space.

I would be interested if a subscriber to this blog could prove me wrong and explain how it could be done -legally that is.

[1BADDAT]

one question

I always thought car parking space in a condo building was "common property' just like lifts, corridors and pools and therefore cannot be allocated or reserved. Is it in yours? Your answer may help determine what options are available.

Definitely a tricky one but some good ideas so far.

Asking lower paid staff to confront and e.g. affix wheel clamps etc would be contentious.

Not allowing staff to take up space seems sensible under these conditions

Whatever you do do ensure your plans and decisions are posted clearly around the car park etc. and well before implementation. Maybe a flier on every car's windscreen EVERY day for weeks !!

In the UK large 12' square hard-to-remove stickers pasted on driver's side windscreen and side window worked wonders when I was there

Good luck and i'm sure many on TV will want to read your decision and its results.

12' (feet)?!?!? Wow those are some big stickers!

[KittenKong]

If you are renting out car parking spaces, you are 'making benefit' from Common Area and require General Meeting approval. A lot of buildings dont do this, but if they are short of parking already and it is already starting to cause an issue then they should make sure it is dealt with properly.

How could you possibly enforce or stop people parking in the 'paid' for spaces. They are common area, so you or anyone else has as much right to use them as anyone else. If you want to make it official and rent them out, then you need majority approval at an General Meeting.

It is not within the Committee's power to simply remove the use of Common Area and rent it out to individual owners.

Clause 48 (7) of the Condo Act

I dont agree. I would have no qualms about allocating parts of a parking area to co-owners willing to pay for it and I doubt that anyone would complain.

It's just like sun-loungers as far as I'm concerned.

Those who dont like it can file a law suit, and good luck to them.

[KittenKong]

I cannot see how it can be legal for a developer to allocate common area

Is your space detailed on your Condo Title Deed ? If so then it is not common area-in which case all is ok. The contract alone is not sufficient-given that it may well be illegal.If it is illegal then in theory you could sue the developer

If not on the condo title deed then a 50% co -owner vote at a general meeting would have to agree to this action. That is a 50% vote for every space.

I would be interested if a subscriber to this blog could prove me wrong and explain how it could be done -legally that is.

In some Pattaya buildings parking spaces beneath the building have chanotes and can be bought and sold.

I know of no building here where the developers allocated outdoor parking spaces either for free or for a fee. I think such allocations would be down to the committee as representatives of the co-owners, and I really dont see what serious argument anyone could have against this. It seems that the developer of the OP's building is long gone so the question presumably doesn't arise.

[Buddumber]

look, when in thailand, do as the thais do. here is the link to show you how http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/888134-three-shot-dead-gunman-surrenders-to-thai-police/