Advice please about money in bank when I die.

[gemguy]

If you have debit cards attached to the 2 bank accounts then leave the pin numbers in your will for your wife.

Then she can use the debit card(s) and simply draw money from your accounts as if you were still alive.

If you were to give her the card or cards right now she could go use them as the bank does not know who is drawing the money.

After you pass away, if she informs the bank then they would probably freeze the account ...so do not tell the bank.... and the wife can draw out the money when needed or she can draw it out over a shorter period and put the money in her account.

That is how I told my wife to use my debit card account when I pass away....same with the foreign bank account attached to a debit card also.

If she knows the pin numbers then she can draw the money out of the account.

How long before the bank knows is uncertain but I think there would be enough time for the wife to use the cards and draw out the money.

Cheers

[Maestro]

Removed off-topic posts about permanent residence and health insurance.

[Maestro]

...

I know I did not mention that Nat was a boy because I have read the very scathing attacks by members of the forum on gay people. Sure enough, as soon as I clarified this point, someone wrote....oh! well that is another matter! Why is it another matter?

...

It is another matter because that's how the Thai law is regarding inheritance. Under Thai law, a man's wife is the person indicated as such in a document issued by a Thai government agency, currently a district office. If you have a marriage certificate from another country for your same-sex marriage you could try to get your marriage recorded at your local district office with a Thai translation of your marriage certificate certified by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs and see what happens.

A much simpler solution is to write a will giving all your assets to any person you designate, eg to the male person who is your wife. Just don't write in your will that you leave everything to your wife but instead write the person's name and other details that serve to identify the beneficiary clearly. These other details usually are the place where the person was born and the names of the person's father and mother. Ideally, enclose also a copy of this person's passport or, if the person is a Thai national, the Thai ID card and a copy of the house registration book in which this person is entered. You may think that this is overkill but I can assure you it is not.

[Maestro]

I thought in your 1st post you said "I am married to a Thai wife and have no children."

The last time I checked, a "wife" is a woman.....

In some countries, a male person can be recorded as the wife of another male person. I believe that this is true, for example, in parts of the United Kingdom, but currently not in Thailand as far as I now.

[Prof3934]

Maestro, thanks for messages.

I am very well-educated, especially in the structure and content of wills.

So, of course, I have listed Nat in his full name and bequeathed everything to him.

I have not used the word 'wife' anywhere.

We trust each other implicitly and so he has my PIN number to my debit account. I cannot have a

debit card for the 1million account as it is a fixed term interest account.

But on my death, this is included in my Will as my bank assets.

So I think I am covered.

[Prof3934]

Mansell - I am not sure if you are trying to tell us all how intelligent you are, in knowing a wife is a woman! Wow...is it?

And after 77 years I have now found out the truth.!!!!

[Badbanker]

Under Thai Law, on your death, Nat must present your original will in Thai to a lawyer who will apply to a the Thai family court to be named as sole beneficiary and executor of your estate.

It takes about 3 months to complete the process, but after he has the court order in his name, naming him as executor of your estate, he goes to your banks named in the court order and closes the accounts and disposes of its contents as he wishes.

Seen this happen several times. No big hassle!

[elgordo38]

Under Thai Law, on your death, Nat must present your original will in Thai to a lawyer who will apply to a the Thai family court to be named as sole beneficiary and executor of your estate.

It takes about 3 months to complete the process, but after he has the court order in his name, naming him as executor of your estate, he goes to your banks named in the court order and closes the accounts and disposes of its contents as he wishes.

Seen this happen several times. No big hassle!

I like your post seems like a speedy process the only scary part is turning it over to a lawyer. After politicians they are most disliked occupation. I have dealt with them in various countries and I think they are ALL crooks and would enrich themselves given the chance. I mentioned your post to my g/f as I would like her to have a seamless process once I pass on and she commented "Yes he would charge me a 100,000 bahts and do FA" What would really be helpful is a list of "recommended" lawyers known for their honesty and integrity. That would go a long way in helping in sleep better at night. If you know of one please feel free to PM me.

Edited February 6, 2016 by elgordo38

[Badbanker]

Thai Visa forum legal sponsors are probably a good place to start. Most Thai spouses know a Thai lawyer!

From memory it is normally 50k to complete what is known in Thai as a "Pujatkarn Morodok" or Executor of the Estate.

For a simple case such as the OP suggested, 50k is about right!

[NancyL]

Under Thai Law, on your death, Nat must present your original will in Thai to a lawyer who will apply to a the Thai family court to be named as sole beneficiary and executor of your estate.

It takes about 3 months to complete the process, but after he has the court order in his name, naming him as executor of your estate, he goes to your banks named in the court order and closes the accounts and disposes of its contents as he wishes.

Seen this happen several times. No big hassle!

Actually, I've seen several Thai visa retirement accounts turned over to beneficiaries without involving Thai lawyers or courts.

In every case, it's been Bangkok Bank Kad Suan Kaew branch in Chiang Mai and the account owner, beneficiary and executor where known to the bank's management prior to the death of the account owner. The account owner had introduced the beneficiary and executor (if they were different people) to the bank management and made it very clear what he wanted done with his retirement visa account upon his death.

When that time came, the executor and beneficiary (if they were different people) came to the branch bank with the signed original Final Will and signed some documents. They needed to produce a "guaranteer" known to the bank. Someone who has accounts at Bangkok Bank in excess of the amount of the claim that says they knew the intent of the deceased with regard to the disposition of the funds in the accounts. I've served as the guaranteer on several occasions. The Bangkok Bank management find it difficult to understand that elderly foreigners can have adult children overseas that are so indifferent to their parents and don't want to make a claim to their retirement visa bank account.

After this filing of documents at the branch bank, the beneficiary receive the funds from the retirement visa account with 30 days, usually more like 20 days with no fees for lawyers or court costs.

This is a way to avoid probate in Thailand if your only assets are bank accounts.

[sunnyjim5]

Under Thai Law, on your death, Nat must present your original will in Thai to a lawyer who will apply to a the Thai family court to be named as sole beneficiary and executor of your estate.

It takes about 3 months to complete the process, but after he has the court order in his name, naming him as executor of your estate, he goes to your banks named in the court order and closes the accounts and disposes of its contents as he wishes.

Seen this happen several times. No big hassle!

Actually, I've seen several Thai visa retirement accounts turned over to beneficiaries without involving Thai lawyers or courts.

In every case, it's been Bangkok Bank Kad Suan Kaew branch in Chiang Mai and the account owner, beneficiary and executor where known to the bank's management prior to the death of the account owner. The account owner had introduced the beneficiary and executor (if they were different people) to the bank management and made it very clear what he wanted done with his retirement visa account upon his death.

When that time came, the executor and beneficiary (if they were different people) came to the branch bank with the signed original Final Will and signed some documents. They needed to produce a "guaranteer" known to the bank. Someone who has accounts at Bangkok Bank in excess of the amount of the claim that says they knew the intent of the deceased with regard to the disposition of the funds in the accounts. I've served as the guaranteer on several occasions. The Bangkok Bank management find it difficult to understand that elderly foreigners can have adult children overseas that are so indifferent to their parents and don't want to make a claim to their retirement visa bank account.

After this filing of documents at the branch bank, the beneficiary receive the funds from the retirement visa account with 30 days, usually more like 20 days with no fees for lawyers or court costs.

This is a way to avoid probate in Thailand if your only assets are bank accounts.

A good post but I challenge the "indifference" of adult children.

My son (an adult) loves and respects his Thai step mother and will ensure my determination to ensure her financial well being is met in accordance with my wishes.

[sandmike]

OP ...

There also seems to be the issue of notifying the pension providers of your demise so they can cease payments ... (or not ...)

[sunnyjim5]

OP ...

There also seems to be the issue of notifying the pension providers of your demise so they can cease payments ... (or not ...)

Good pension suppliers provide "survivor" benefit to wive's in the event of their husbands demise.

In my case, after my death, my wife will receive some 70% of my current (index linked) pension until she dies.

[tonray]

OP ...

There also seems to be the issue of notifying the pension providers of your demise so they can cease payments ... (or not ...)

Good pension suppliers provide "survivor" benefit to wive's in the event of their husbands demise.

In my case, after my death, my wife will receive some 70% of my current (index linked) pension until she dies.

Today it depends on where the pension comes from (government vs private) and what option you chose when you started taking payments. Most plans will lower benefits to you while alive if you want to pay out survivor benefits after your demise. No free lunches anywhere these days....

[Badbanker]

While in some instances it might be rational for the account owner and the beneficiary to go to a bank, to work the final details of asset disposal, the bank is going to want to ensure that in the case of a foreigner, the bank is legally covered from claims from other wills and claimants in foreign jurisdictions.

I have seen multiple claimants to the assets of people who have died in Thailand and only the relevant Thai court was successful in settling them. There was then further litigation in a foreign country contesting the awards that the Thai court made and claimants had to settle further.

In some cases the deceased had unbeknown to his heirs, money in other banks that he had hidden. The court was able to order a list of all banks in Thailand nominated by the heirs, to declare if the deceased held money in any these banks!

Get it right, once and for all in a Thai court if you live here long term.

[NancyL]

While in some instances it might be rational for the account owner and the beneficiary to go to a bank, to work the final details of asset disposal, the bank is going to want to ensure that in the case of a foreigner, the bank is legally covered from claims from other wills and claimants in foreign jurisdictions.

I have seen multiple claimants to the assets of people who have died in Thailand and only the relevant Thai court was successful in settling them. There was then further litigation in a foreign country contesting the awards that the Thai court made and claimants had to settle further.

In some cases the deceased had unbeknown to his heirs, money in other banks that he had hidden. The court was able to order a list of all banks in Thailand nominated by the heirs, to declare if the deceased held money in any these banks!

Get it right, once and for all in a Thai court if you live here long term.

Yes, I've seen cases like this too, where the deceased had bank accounts unknown to the heirs -- either deliberately trying to hide money or simply accounts "forgotten" because of dementia and/or poor maintenance of personal records. And I've seen cases where adult children from overseas come over here to challenge a Final Will -- children who previously had shown no interest in their parent's well-being.

When I wrote in post #40 about a retirement visa account being turned over to the heirs of a Final Will without involving lawyers or Thai courts, these were not complex cases with situations like what I outlined in the previous paragraph. These were cases of people who led very simple, straight-forward lives and had good relationships with the bank management. Even so, the bank requires a "guaranteer" with assets on deposit at the bank that are more than the amount of the claim. It was explained to me that the guaranteer would be called upon if the Final Will was successfully challenged in a Thai court.

[wilkis333]

Is joint account the solution(one signature only)?

[ubonjoe]

Is joint account the solution(one signature only)?

Immigration will not normally accept joint accounts for a extension of stay application. Some in the past would accept them if there was 1.6 million in the bank.

[wilkis333]

i mean two acc,one under my name is for stay extension(only put 400k amount) while joint acc is used by my wife and me.

[ubonjoe]

i mean two acc,one under my name is for stay extension(only put 400k amount) while joint acc is used by my wife and me.

You can have one in your name only for immigration purposes and a joint account for personal accounts.

My experience with joint accounts here is that they are to restrictive. The first one we opened had no ATM card. The next one only one ATM (no debits) card and no online banking. We have separate accounts now. I use online banking to move money to my wife's account on a as needed basis.

[peterpan2501]

If you are married by law you need only 400K for the Imigration but more paperwork ,questions and Fotos needed...

[JimGant]

From memory it is normally 50k to complete what is known in Thai as a "Pujatkarn Morodok" or Executor of the Estate.

50,000 baht to go through probate -- or just to have an executor appointed? You're kidding, right?

Besides, if you name your executor (administrator) in your Will, the court does not need to bless this (unless contested). Only in the absence of a named executor in your Will (or one unqualified, e.g., a minor) does the court need to step in.

From Thai Civil and Commercial Code:

Section 1711. The administrators of an estate shall included the persons appointed by will or by order of the Court.

Section 1712. An administrator of the estate by will may be appointed:

By the testator himself; or

By the person nominated for the purpose in the will

And, the need for probate has been debated for years on this forum, with no clear answer. See post #250 in the following:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/618983-the-importance-of-preparing-a-will-in-thailand/page-10