Elderly bridge players arrested in Pattaya get passports back

[connda]

They would not have been forced to sign anything. It would all have been written in Thai, but they should have refused to sign it.

Admittedly, they were probably scared not to sign it, because they would not have been aware of the system.

Let's hope it all gets put to bed now, but don't be surprised if everything is not dropped.

I imagine somebody will be successfully prosecuted, for an obscure offence, with a paltry fine, in order for the B.I.B. to save some face.

the woman who did not sign was kept in custody ...

Well done that woman

It's a shame the 2 Koh Tao Burmese guys signed a false declaration for the murders they didnt commit. Once again shame on you Thailand.

The incentive given by the BIB in many cases seems to be that you will not be released until you sign a statement of guilt. If you are not guilty, you can (try to) retract that statement later in court.

Good question for TVs "Ask The Lawyer". http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/forum/192-ask-the-lawyer/

Never mind. Just checked it out and it seems they pulled the plug on that service to the expat community.

Edited February 10, 2016 by connda

[sambum]

They would not have been forced to sign anything. It would all have been written in Thai, but they should have refused to sign it.

Admittedly, they were probably scared not to sign it, because they would not have been aware of the system.

Let's hope it all gets put to bed now, but don't be surprised if everything is not dropped.

I imagine somebody will be successfully prosecuted, for an obscure offence, with a paltry fine, in order for the B.I.B. to save some face.

What I find even more insidious, if true, was that according to one account that I read, a lawyer was present at the time of the Bridge player's arrest who told these people that it was OK to sign the 'confession'. Again, if true, then you have to ask yourself, "What is the value of obtaining Thai legal representation." Who can you trust to actually defend your rights after an arrest? If these 'declarations' are used to convict any of these players.....what then???

The article was in the Sydney Morning Herald

Australian bridge champion forced to sign gambling confession in Thailand

February 7, 2016 by Lindsay Murdoch

http://www.smh.com.au/world/australian-bridge-champion-forced-to-sign-gambling-confession-in-thailand-20160207-gmnksj.html

I agree, but the lawyer present would have been recommended by the arresting officials.

When he told them it was OK to sign a gambling confession, why did they believe him ?

I am pretty sure, out of 32, probably long term, expats, at least one of them, or more likely a few of them, would have had a contact number of an alternative legal advisor, other than the one present.

When your place of entertainment has just been raided by 50 officials intent on charging you with something, and a LAWYER tells you that in order to be released, you must sign the confessions, and that "it will be OK", I think the temptation would be to do it just to get the **** out of there - especially as one lady was held in custody because she wouldn't sign.(An incentive to make the others sign, maybe?)

[novo58]

@ Sambum

"The incentive given by the BIB in many cases seems to be that you will not be released until you sign a statement of guilt. If you are not guilty, you can (try to) retract that statement later in court. "

Trying to...................... "retract that statement later in court. "..............didnt work very well for 2 young Burmese guys recently did it ????

[williamgeorgeallen]

They would not have been forced to sign anything. It would all have been written in Thai, but they should have refused to sign it.

Admittedly, they were probably scared not to sign it, because they would not have been aware of the system.

Let's hope it all gets put to bed now, but don't be surprised if everything is not dropped.

I imagine somebody will be successfully prosecuted, for an obscure offence, with a paltry fine, in order for the B.I.B. to save some face.

the woman who did not sign was kept in custody ...

i refused to sign when they busted me. they kept me locked up for 12 hours and doubled my bond to 50 000thb. kept my passport for 2 years just for having the wrong address in my work permit. all up cost me 80 000tb to get my bond back. that cheque, but no problems putting it into my thai bank account.

[thaiduncankk]

@sambum

Why anyone would sign something, not even in their own language, that they do not understand, is beyond me.

Also, as a very small minority, if any, actually trust the police over here, why trust a lawyer recommended by them, the people prosecuting you ?

[sambum]

@ Sambum

"The incentive given by the BIB in many cases seems to be that you will not be released until you sign a statement of guilt. If you are not guilty, you can (try to) retract that statement later in court. "

Trying to...................... "retract that statement later in court. "..............didnt work very well for 2 young Burmese guys recently did it ????

I agree entirely! You obviously don't appreciate sarcasm, eh? (Hence the emoticon after the statement!)

[novo58]

So sorry ...Sambum,

I'm from a generation that uses words to express my thoughts and feelings --------this usually leaves no room for mis-understandings.

not some stupid cartoon comic pictures.

My bad.

[Thaidream]

The whole Thai legal system needs to be reformed. The police should not be involved in bail of any kind. In normal societies a judge rules on this. In addition, pressuring foreigners to sign documents they do not understand or can read should never be allowed. The Embassy staff of each country should immediately be called in and explain to their citizens what is happening. The problem is the Embassy staff won't come so a person then is left to their own devices. There appears to be little real search for justice in cases in Thailand. Had the civil authorities/military/police actually done a proper investigation based on the complaint, they would have sent a few people around to look at the room and determine nothing illegal was going on. Instead, they saw this as a potential opportunity to grab a bunch of foreigners who had broken Thai gambling laws and assembled 50 people to do it. Maybe they will learn a lesson from this charade??

[Scouse123]

I spoke to the public prosecutor yesterday and he told me that these charge will be dismissed and the case will not go ahead "For Sure".

We already know that from Barry Kenyon the founder, an ex tourist immigration advisor at Jomtien office.

Yes, and he was also the British Honorary Consul for Pattaya for many years.

Apparently, from reports, this ' bust ' did not start from the Police. I want them to get their 5,000 baht back instead of the pathetic face saving accusation and an obscure law that there was more than 120 playing cards on the tables, because they had no evidence of gambling.

[novanova]

Passports have been returned

The 5,000b bail has been refunded, in cash.

All charges against the group of players have been dropped

[novanova]

@sambum

Why anyone would sign something, not even in their own language, that they do not understand, is beyond me.

Also, as a very small minority, if any, actually trust the police over here, why trust a lawyer recommended by them, the people prosecuting you ?

You have no idea what you are talking about.

The lawyer was a long-time retainee of one of the players.

[thaiduncankk]

I would bin her number and look for another one, one that does not recommend I sign a false statement I don't understand.

Edited February 10, 2016 by thaiduncankk

[Basil B]

They would not have been forced to sign anything. It would all have been written in Thai, but they should have refused to sign it.

Admittedly, they were probably scared not to sign it, because they would not have been aware of the system.

Let's hope it all gets put to bed now, but don't be surprised if everything is not dropped.

I imagine somebody will be successfully prosecuted, for an obscure offence, with a paltry fine, in order for the B.I.B. to save some face.

there were defiantly a few who were aware of the system...

Fact is I doubt any of them signed willingly.

[Basil B]

Passports have been returned

The 5,000b bail has been refunded, in cash.

All charges against the group of players have been dropped

All Trumped Up charges against the group of players have been dropped

[thaiduncankk]

They would not have been forced to sign anything. It would all have been written in Thai, but they should have refused to sign it.

Admittedly, they were probably scared not to sign it, because they would not have been aware of the system.

Let's hope it all gets put to bed now, but don't be surprised if everything is not dropped.

I imagine somebody will be successfully prosecuted, for an obscure offence, with a paltry fine, in order for the B.I.B. to save some face.

there were defiantly a few who were aware of the system...

Fact is I doubt any of them signed willingly.

So why sign ?

[novanova]

Case is not over.

This thread should remain open until we hear that they get all their money back, 31 x 5000 baht .

To repeat, the bail money (31 * 5,000b) HAS BEEN REPAID IN CASH to the bridgeplayers concerned.

[novanova]

Posted on a bridge site:

Chodchoy Soponpanich, president of the Contract Bridge League of Thailand (CBLT) and staff held a meeting with the Interior Ministry and the matter appears to be resolved.

A message from a representative of the CBLT to Gianarrigo Rona [President of the World Bridge Federation] follows:

I have just returned (with the President of CBLT and staff) from a meeting with the Interior Ministry regarding our Gambling laws and the regulations of the National Sports Authority (NSA) and the matter has been resolved that for the time being all the players/groups contact CBLT and let us know the regular schedule of play and venue so that CBLT will produce a letter that will be sent to the local authorities in each vicinity…

In the meantime, they are helping us draft a letter to the NSA to include in the regulations that CBLT will be able to give permission to all our members/clubs/schools/ universities etc. to play for the promotion and practice of the sport, bridge. This process will take about a couple of months. Once that regulation is formal, we will be automatically be “out” of the gambling law…. (and we will be teaching bridge to the legal department of the Ministry !!)

Not doubting this in the least but it is strange that the only place it can be found in google is this forum

Here is the link:

http://bridgewinners.com/article/view/fifty-thai-police-raid-bridge-game-in-pattaya/?cj=312804

It is from Alvin Levy, World Bridge Federation Executive Council member.

[onemorechang]

Passports have been returned

The 5,000b bail has been refunded, in cash.

All charges against the group of players have been dropped

That.s good news.

Good job

[onemorechang]

Yes hope they get all the money back.

But you never know,

There could be a reduced amount ( face saving exercise ) at the last minute.

TIT.

Bail money is normally paid back in full BY CHEQUE!

Oops, ,

[derekjw]

Dear Thai Visa readers,

This relates to the latest episode in the arrest of 30plus bridge players in Pattaya a week ago, the club had a meeting in the Altos Restaurant today, Wednesday, and several things were discussed.

Firstly, most of the arrested players had gone to the police station early in the week and got their passports back, five remaining were asked to go tonight, I was one of those five. I went and signed various documents, was asked to complete a form and was assured by an efficient translator that the fingerprints, photographs and signed admission of guilt would be "lost". I was also told that the case is still open but I shouldn't worry as it was highly unlikely that we would see the inside of a Court.

The meeting at The Altos was pretty much "same; same" and Jeremy Watson confirmed that the Case was still not closed and that there are a lot of "Ifs and buts", but it was likely that only he, as organiser of the day, would be prosecuted for the possession of illegally imported playing cards.

Unfortunately, the lead officer with DOPA will, at this present time, not give up and it was made clear to us that neither the Army or Police were involved in the raid on The Altos last week, only DOPA, although several policemen appeared on the scene, none was actively involved, mere bystanders (Mmmm!).

We haven't got all the answers, nor will we probably ever get any, our bridge has been badly disrupted (Ah bless; I hear you say) and some of the elderly folk (Is 45 classed as elderly?) feel somewhat more vulnerable than before this episode. I have lived here long enough to understand the way things are here in Thailand and have got more cynical as the months creep by, but I, like some of our sympathisers on Thai Visa, feel things can only get better, or I will be on to Richard Branson booking my flight to Mars, Saturn or even Prestatyn, North Wales (oops; sorry!!!).

By the way, thank you to all the 150 plus who wrote in after my interpretation of what happened last Wednesday/ Thursday, the criticisms, witticisms, observations and factual (and fictional) responses were reward in themselves and, if I tell you that we DID get our bail money back, would it surprise some of you?

Enjoy yourselves now, or you may end up playing bridge with other doddering old folk, like Omar Sharif (sadly no longer with us)!!

DW

[thaiduncankk]

Passports have been returned

The 5,000b bail has been refunded, in cash.

All charges against the group of players have been dropped

I take it you stand corrected ?

[TheKnave]

@ thaiduncankk

From your comment it seems that you know absolutely NOTHING about the card game of Bridge.

There is no entry fee, no winners prize ......( other than bragging rights).

It is a card game played purely for social interaction and mental stimulation. Hence why most of the players were of an advanced age.

If there is a winner, who has the 'so called' bragging rights, it is possible to gamble.

I am not suggesting they were gambling, just pointing out that it IS possible.

Yet again, you're in a hole.

Maybe time to stop digging?

[ericthai]

It would be nice, just once, for someone in power to say "we made a mistake and we apologize". I'm glad that it seems the situation will be settled in favor of the poor folks that were arrested and they will get their money and passports back

Actually the BIB didn't make a mistake as the bridge club did break a few laws. They weren't gambling but had cards with no tax stamps and too many packs which are both illegal, stupid law but every country has stupid laws on the books.

I never knew about playing cards laws until a girlfriend told me that all cards need to have a tax stamp when I brought a pack from the USA. I didnt believe her and checked and she was right. Also there is a limit on how many packs you can have. The police used to raid the motor taxi stand near my condo in BKK every once in awhile because the guys were playing cards for money. It was like a drug bust going down. It's crazy! I was on the train once and playing a card game with my girlfriend, at one of the stops police came on board for a walk through they saw me and her and stopped and checked us out, when we showed we were just playing with for fun no problem.

I believe if this group would have had cards with tax stamps and not so many packs of cards it would have been no problem. Someone is pissed of at them and called it in, most likely said they are gambling.

[Psychic]

I'm glad all this nonsense has ended for the players.

I hope Jeremy gets out of this unscathed.

I really can't see any other outcome...duplicate bridge is entirely legal and can't be played without cards and there are no cards produced by the government that can withstand the usage necessary for multiple bridge games.

Someone has said that this is the best advertisement bridge has gotten in years.

But I can't help but feel that the whole scenario has dragged both bridge and Thailand down.

Its a wonderful, intellectually challenging game. When 2 of the 3 richest men in the world dote on it,you'd think maybe it would not only be allowed but encouraged.

The fastest growing bridge communities in the world emerged, or are emerging, from previously totalitarian states like Poland, Russia and China.

Because, no matter what the state of affairs, bright people will gather with other bright people and play intellectually challenging games.

This is to be encouraged.

No matter what happens in Thailand politically, I hope the decision makers can see the positive values of allowing their citizens and foreigñ "guests" pursuing pastime's like bridge and chess

without having to worry about the state treating then like criminals.

[balo]

Case is not over.

This thread should remain open until we hear that they get all their money back, 31 x 5000 baht .

To repeat, the bail money (31 * 5,000b) HAS BEEN REPAID IN CASH to the bridgeplayers concerned.

Thank you for informing us , I understand you had good help from a Thai lawyer who also is a bridge player, so that must have been one of the reasons for this quick outcome.

[stephenterry]

Re post 110 - extract:

The meeting at The Altos was pretty much "same; same" and Jeremy Watson confirmed that the Case was still not closed and that there are a lot of "Ifs and buts", but it was likely that only he, as organiser of the day, would be prosecuted for the possession of illegally imported playing cards.

Unfortunately, the lead officer with DOPA will, at this present time, not give up and it was made clear to us that neither the Army or Police were involved in the raid on The Altos last week, only DOPA, although several policemen appeared on the scene, none was actively involved, mere bystanders (Mmmm!).

About time this egoistical arse-hole got his comeuppance, and an attitude adjustment. Instead of acting like a DOPA officer, he's acting like a DOPE. Talk about trying to push a pea up a mountain with his nose.

[Rimmer]

Some baiting troll posts removed also a reply

[mercman24]

have never met a thai yet that admitted a wrong doing with out blaming it on something else, ie, lorry/.bus drivers blaming the wet roads for an accident, murderers blaming drugs/alcohol for their, crimes. nah, is aint gonna happen.

[kingdratsab]

@ thaiduncankk

From your comment it seems that you know absolutely NOTHING about the card game of Bridge.

There is no entry fee, no winners prize ......( other than bragging rights).

It is a card game played purely for social interaction and mental stimulation. Hence why most of the players were of an advanced age.

If there is a winner, who has the 'so called' bragging rights, it is possible to gamble.

I am not suggesting they were gambling, just pointing out that it IS possible.

At this venue the organiser said there were no prizes for the winners, just points. So why it's possible, it hasn't happened at their club. Duplicate bridge is not a gambling game, bottom line. Other forms of bridge can be. And any entrance money, if any is for the venue costs plus equipment, not for the benefit of any players.

I did state that I was not suggesting they were gambling.

I can read. And I stated they weren't gambling, nor is any other venue that plays duplicate bridge, so your comments are superfluous. It's like saying an alien invasion is possible, and just as likely.

For the nth time plus one, duplicate bridge is not a gambling game.

I trust you have visited every venue in Thailand that plays your game.

You must be well travelled, fair play to you.

I trust you could understand my post, but clearly not. To repeat for the nth time plus two, any venue used solely for the purpose of playing duplicate bridge is not a gambling game.

And please refrain from being a smart arse.

You state that as a long time player of this game that no Gambling or PRIZES occur in the

game of Duplicate pairs. I can state that on personal experience that is FALSE.

In a small area of the uk I've played in several clubs Where a PRIZE is given to players

who bid and make a GRAND SLAM

[travelingmike]

The whole face saving crap gets old. A simple we f***** up would be such a breathe of fresh air. I only visit my family for 16 years now, have stayed up to 3 months. Those of you who live full time in Thailand more power to you.