Thailand BANNED: Harvard blocks Thai users from its Facebook page over dentist drama

[Gulfsailor]

The prestigious school's Facebook rating has dropped from four-to-five stars to two stars after the story was widely discussed on the social media.

Like Harvard will care...

seems like they do care.

I don't think they give a rats arse about star ratings.

Comments that are overly faux outraged and insulting, ok that they might want to put a stop to.

So they are not advocates of free speech I see.

Not sure if using aggressive and/or abusive language to a person or institution on their own page is exercising free speech or an abuse of it.

If someone is having a pop at me on my page and I don't want them to do so, I'll just block them.

My page, my rules.

But yes, I take your point.

I agree with you if it were so that only certain individuals were being blocked. But that is not the case. Anyone with a Thai IP address is being blocked. That's the same as when a Thai business puts a sign up saying; "English people not allowed!", after some previous bad experience with some English people. Everyone would scream racism or discrimination. But that's basically what Harvard is doing here. I would have expected something better from a university, and certainly better from one as well regarded as Harvard.

[Artisi]

The link doesn't work.

Who's she owe the money to, and what kind of scholarship requires a 30 mil Baht repayment?

Do some research, the discussions re repayments has been done to death.....

If it's a scholarship why's she expected to repay it? Sounds like a loan to me, scholarship woudln't need a guarantor. Could be the Thais making the noise don't understand what's goinng on.

'scholarship' can have many meanings / many configurations.

Scholarship only means funded without any payback, however the literal meaning very often used in Thailand can and does often mean something else, in this case she owes heaps to the government for funding her study over many years and she is well aware of her commitment - - end of story.

[scorecard]

"Ahhh... The prestigious institution would not take any action on their graduates as long as fees have been paid, even if the person is Jack the Ripper!"

Seems that would fall into police jurisdiction, wouldn't it? Would Thais be happy if Harvard did a black bag kidnap and "rendite" her to Thailand. They did have some black sites here during that whole Bush driven debacle. Harvard is there to educate, not be bill collector.

There's also image, reputation, credibility, etc.

Some schools would possibly be concerned that her actions damage the reputation etc., of the school. Harvard does, in the eyes of some, have a '5 star' ranking therefore '5 star' reputation.

IMHO the school should make some effort to indicate that it is not actively involved in this actual case but find some careful words to actively distance itself from the lady.

Also, maybe Some students might be uncomfortable / might refuse to be taught by a person with her reputation. Again in the best interests of Harvard to carefully do some damage control.

[atyclb]

The paper has reprorted it being a scholarship. Scholarships are gifts, you don;t repay them, and they don't involve guarantors, either the paper is using the wrong word or the Thai's making all the noise don't understand how a scholarship works. Could be the girl's getting bad press for no good reason.

scholarships are subject to whatever terms are agreed upon.

let me try to help you understand, if that is possible.

you ever heard the term "basketball scholarship" ???

what should the university do if the student/basketball player subsequently decides to not play basketball ?? should the university simply continue to provide tuition and/or living expenses??

in the case of basketball the student fulfills the terms/obligations concurrently while studying. in the case of the dentist in return for getting her harvard costs paid she agreed to return to thailand and fulfill teaching requirements where it was lacking. therefore the dentist does indeed get her harvard expenses paid for in addition to receiving a normal dentist-teacher salary in thailand for the duration of time she agreed.

do you still believe a scholarship in a no strings attached gift?

[Rob13]

The paper has reprorted it being a scholarship. Scholarships are gifts, you don;t repay them, and they don't involve guarantors, either the paper is using the wrong word or the Thai's making all the noise don't understand how a scholarship works. Could be the girl's getting bad press for no good reason.

scholarships are subject to whatever terms are agreed upon.

let me try to help you understand, if that is possible.

you ever heard the term "basketball scholarship" ???

what should the university do if the student/basketball player subsequently decides to not play basketball ?? should the university simply continue to provide tuition and/or living expenses??

in the case of basketball the student fulfills the terms/obligations concurrently while studying. in the case of the dentist in return for getting her harvard costs paid she agreed to return to thailand and fulfill teaching requirements where it was lacking. therefore the dentist does indeed get her harvard expenses paid for in addition to receiving a normal dentist-teacher salary in thailand for the duration of time she agreed.

do you still believe a scholarship in a no strings attached gift?

Classic Ray explained it well in post #26. And yes there are many 'no strings attached' scholarships.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Rob13

[dabhand]

If I remember rightly in return for the money she agreed to work back in Thailand for ten years, and has reneged on that agreement. That is why the Thais are so upset.

No doubt Mahidol insist upon having guarantors in place to cover them for this very eventuality. After all, they have financed this student to the extent of Bt8million on the basis that they would gain a benefit from her future expertise for a number of years following her period at Harvard. Mahidol may have been 'burnt' in the past and have this system in place to cover themselves.

The penalty may appear high for non conformity - a total bill of Bt30m had been mentioned (now presumably less the Bt8m recently paid by the guarantors) - but, given the potential for earning a high salary in the US having completed a post grad at Harvard, not excessive at all.

As for Harvard wishing to place themselves as the innocent bystander in this story. I do believe they protest too much.

I find it hard to believe that Harvard were unaware of the deal with Mahidol. Indeed, they possibly have discounted rates (from extremely high to very high!) in such inter university arrangements. They would have been on a nice earner both during the post grad course and also, subsequently, when the lady moved onto the faculty staff and will have continued to contribute to the well being of Harvard finances.

I certainly hope that Mahidol continue with their legal claim against the lady. I trust that the guarantors are also taking appropriate action when it appears they assisted, foolishly some might say, in giving the lady the opportunity to greatly improve her future financial prospects.

[wabothai]

The paper has reprorted it being a scholarship. Scholarships are gifts, you don;t repay them, and they don't involve guarantors, either the paper is using the wrong word or the Thai's making all the noise don't understand how a scholarship works. Could be the girl's getting bad press for no good reason.

scholarships are subject to whatever terms are agreed upon.

let me try to help you understand, if that is possible.

you ever heard the term "basketball scholarship" ???

what should the university do if the student/basketball player subsequently decides to not play basketball ?? should the university simply continue to provide tuition and/or living expenses??

in the case of basketball the student fulfills the terms/obligations concurrently while studying. in the case of the dentist in return for getting her harvard costs paid she agreed to return to thailand and fulfill teaching requirements where it was lacking. therefore the dentist does indeed get her harvard expenses paid for in addition to receiving a normal dentist-teacher salary in thailand for the duration of time she agreed.

do you still believe a scholarship in a no strings attached gift?

Many 3rd world counties have the same rules. They finance the stay for a number of years in exchange for having to teach or work for a number of years. There really isn't a free ride. Many thai ladies believe in free rides.

[Nicolas32]

Hmm reminds me once when Thai's were protesting outside the US Embassy due to some comments by US ambassador about the Shinawatra and the Thais said they would stop buying US brand products some up face these days with Thai People .. It will die over in a few days like everything else being push under the rug ? Thainess at its finest hour ?

[IAMHERE]

Thirty million baht for Dental School ? Better be one heck of dentist when you graduate.

[GanDoonToonPet]

It's only blocked if you type in the address from the picture in the Coconuts article. After a search on Facebook I was able to access both the Harvard University, Cambridge & Harvard Medical School, Boston pages.

Being a Brit I'm not 'au fait' with the details so have I got the wrong University?

[bim]

Thais posted bad reviews and comments over the universitys refusal to take action against its Thai lecturer who skipped out on her THB30 million scholarship debt in Thailand and left four guarantors to pay it off.

Attack the American University and not the Thai.

The graduate paid for her course with them, just because she was a lying, conniving, scamming Thai, that's their fault how?

Ahhh... The prestigious institution would not take any action on their graduates as long as fees have been paid, even if the person is Jack the Ripper!

Same in Europe. Pol Pot educated in France and Kim Jung educated in Switzerland. As long as you play the fees its OK.

[Don Mega]

Harvard not blocked here in Chonburi on True.

[Nicolas32]

It's only blocked if you type in the address from the picture in the Coconuts article. After a search on Facebook I was able to access both the Harvard University, Cambridge & Harvard Medical School, Boston pages.

Being a Brit I'm not 'au fait' with the details so have I got the wrong University?

I know and its like the people making reviews can afford to go there it's just jealousy and envy and acting like 5 years old just shows the true color of Thai people at the end of the day ?

[ggt]

Don't know about the Facebook battle...but the corrupt Thai dentist should do well...

[Nicolas32]

Don't know about the Facebook battle...but the corrupt Thai dentist should do well...

isnt there fault it's their Thai lecturer fault for doing a runner .. But cant fault her for wanting a better life in the west ? You know what i mean ..

https://www.facebook.com/Harvard/reviews/

Edited February 10, 2016 by Nicolas32

[Basil B]

Seems to me the University is condoning her actions, disgraceful.

I am sure the university would not like it if the Thai government was to impose an embargo on scholarships to their Uni...

Edited February 10, 2016 by Basil B

[taony]

I think Harvard has a good 28,000 defamation cases to file!

edit: most of the people adding comments are just cut and paste. Even though its in good English, the argument is tenuous in my opinion.

One person made their own, very ironic, comment though!

"

I am not in Thailand. But i am also Thai people that would like to help other Thai when they get in trouble. I love Thailand. I love my country so much.

I think Harvard University can do something better than blocking Thai people posting on this page.

I think the way that you do is put away the problem rather than solving problem.

If you think this is non of your business, then you should think about the justice.

Help the world to become more peaceful. The bad person could not stay any longer in the good life. I warn you."

Yes, don't hide your problems! Always demand justice! Koombaya!

another:

"

Hello bad awkward university.
I post from Thailand(the country that you blocked IP address) , you will never block anyone, don't be an idiot and dictator, it's already 2016 A.D.
Guilty is always guilty. That's not gonna change even if you've tried to ignore and change her to an innocence.
How can you teach your graduates if you act like this.

How disgraceful you are. So disappointed. Awkward University."

Perfect!

Edited February 10, 2016 by taony

[Nicolas32]

Seems to me the University is condoning her actions, disgraceful.

I am sure the university would not like it if the Thai government was to impose an embargo on scholarships to their Uni...

isnt the crime of the century when you look at how much people owe in other countries .. billions and billions of pounds ?

[ChidlomDweller]

Hmm reminds me once when Thai's were protesting outside the US Embassy due to some comments by US ambassador about the Shinawatra and the Thais said they would stop buying US brand products some up face these days with Thai People .. It will die over in a few days like everything else being push under the rug ? Thainess at its finest hour ?

Or they could shift their attention to the plagiarizing lecturer at Chula who was never forced to leave. Hypothetically speaking of course.

[Ulic]

Pretty sure Obama and Bush (and many other idiots) are Harvard graduates.

I don't much care for that school.

Bush went to Yale, much to there shame.

Actually it is one of Bush's standing jokes.

What job does getting 60% at Yale get you? - President of the USA

What job does failing and dropping out of Yale get you?- VP USA (Cheney)

[Ks45672]

Well, now they will bomb the website instead of the facebook page

Where is anonymous when you need em?

[Bluespunk]

Thais posted bad reviews and comments over the universitys refusal to take action against its Thai lecturer who skipped out on her THB30 million scholarship debt in Thailand and left four guarantors to pay it off.

Attack the American University and not the Thai.

The graduate paid for her course with them, just because she was a lying, conniving, scamming Thai, that's their fault how?

Ahhh... The prestigious institution would not take any action on their graduates as long as fees have been paid, even if the person is Jack the Ripper!

Same in Europe. Pol Pot educated in France and Kim Jung educated in Switzerland. As long as you play the fees its OK.

I'm not sure that the power of clairvoyance was available for the French to see what a psychotic, mass murdering butcher pol pot would become.

[Rayk]

Many nice people graduate from Harvard in addition to the shysters, ratbags, crooks, cronies and corrupt. But lOok at any financial scandal and you'll see Harvard grads in the thick of it. Apart from dentistry what do they teach? Grad school in how to become rich at the expense of others? In this case the 2 were combined.

Mark Zuckerberg attended Harvard all the while stealing the idea for Facebook from some of his colleagues. So I imagine Harvard is accustomed to having people with no morals attend their campus.

[selftaopath]

The link doesn't work.

Who's she owe the money to, and what kind of scholarship requires a 30 mil Baht repayment?

Do some research, the discussions re repayments has been done to death.....

If it's a scholarship why's she expected to repay it? Sounds like a loan to me, scholarship woudln't need a guarantor. Could be the Thais making the noise don't understand what's goinng on.

As already said, explained previously.... the only misunderstanding is on her part that she can renege on her contract to repay the balance her debt and expect her guarantors to pick up the tab. Pretty simple...oh! and don't get hung up on the terminology...

Isn't that the norm here?

[Usernames]

What will Thailand do if all the US simply bans Thailand from most US interactions, FB, internet, business, banking, etc???

[scorecard]

Don't know about the Facebook battle...but the corrupt Thai dentist should do well...

isnt there fault it's their Thai lecturer fault for doing a runner .. But cant fault her for wanting a better life in the west ? You know what i mean ..

https://www.facebook.com/Harvard/reviews/

So in your view she did nothing wrong because she built a better life in the west.

But all achieved by putting a number of people, not from her family, into a situation where they had to take loans to repay the 8,000,000Baht cash which also limited their ability to assist their own families; so that a dentist (high personal earning power after graduation) can have a better life in the US.

From the various reports it's also mentioned she has been approached many times to repay but ignored the communications.

But never mind, she's OK. How very very selfish and arrogant.

[charmonman]

The paper has reprorted it being a scholarship. Scholarships are gifts, you don;t repay them, and they don't involve guarantors, either the paper is using the wrong word or the Thai's making all the noise don't understand how a scholarship works. Could be the girl's getting bad press for no good reason.

scholarships are subject to whatever terms are agreed upon.

let me try to help you understand, if that is possible.

you ever heard the term "basketball scholarship" ???

what should the university do if the student/basketball player subsequently decides to not play basketball ?? should the university simply continue to provide tuition and/or living expenses??

in the case of basketball the student fulfills the terms/obligations concurrently while studying. in the case of the dentist in return for getting her harvard costs paid she agreed to return to thailand and fulfill teaching requirements where it was lacking. therefore the dentist does indeed get her harvard expenses paid for in addition to receiving a normal dentist-teacher salary in thailand for the duration of time she agreed.

do you still believe a scholarship in a no strings attached gift?

It would certainly be nice if the article had explained some relevant details such as the fact (?) that she reneged on the terms of her scholarship by not returning to work in Thailand for ten years. Also, why these four guarantors would agree to be responsible for her debt if they didn't even know her. That seems extremely foolish.

Also, it is not clear from the article that the huge amount of cash went to pay for her tuition at Harvard rather than Mahidol. Given the absurd costs of tuition at most US universities that makes sense.

Thanks atyclb for explaining the facts of the situation. Pity that the original article did not. You can't really blame other TV posters for being confused.

[stickyrice2000]

Thailand likes to put the blame on someone else. This is between Mahidol University and this dentist. The loan/scholarship was done in Thailand. They need to revisit their process and stop putting blame to the third party. Harvard is an institution for education, not their debt collector. It's a different system in the US. Follow the house rules and file a case with the court.

[PaullyW]

The prestigious school's Facebook rating has dropped from four-to-five stars to two stars after the story was widely discussed on the social media.

Like Harvard will care...

seems like they do care.

I don't think they give a rats arse about star ratings.

Comments that are overly faux outraged and insulting, ok that they might want to put a stop to.

So they are not advocates of free speech I see.

Silly. If a stranger walks up to you in public and begins an incomprehensible rant about something having nothing to do with you, you reserve the right to walk away.

The stranger can continue to talk if he likes, but just not to you.

[PaullyW]

The prestigious school's Facebook rating has dropped from four-to-five stars to two stars after the story was widely discussed on the social media.

Like Harvard will care...

seems like they do care.

I don't think they give a rats arse about star ratings.

Comments that are overly faux outraged and insulting, ok that they might want to put a stop to.

So they are not advocates of free speech I see.

Not sure if using aggressive and/or abusive language to a person or institution on their own page is exercising free speech or an abuse of it.

If someone is having a pop at me on my page and I don't want them to do so, I'll just block them.

My page, my rules.

But yes, I take your point.

I agree with you if it were so that only certain individuals were being blocked. But that is not the case. Anyone with a Thai IP address is being blocked. That's the same as when a Thai business puts a sign up saying; "English people not allowed!", after some previous bad experience with some English people. Everyone would scream racism or discrimination. But that's basically what Harvard is doing here. I would have expected something better from a university, and certainly better from one as well regarded as Harvard.

Wrong. It is a geographic block. Farangs, Thais, anyone in Thailand is blocked. Or, more precisely, IP addresses in Thailand are being blocked.

Not sure why it is a problem as companies across the world employ geographic blocking all the time