CNX night flights... anything we can do?

[NancyL]

This is the most idiotic topic since last September's complaint about a new doctor opening up.

It seems that there are at least a couple of dozen topics that could challenge that but it is clearly just a matter of opinion. No doubt this one is a doozie.

Yeah, but the rest of Bangmai's post was spot-on.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

They could build a parking structure and the building has already doubled in size (at least) since the time of the photo that Tywais posted. I think there's room for it to expand north-south. Looking at a Google map, it would seem the bottle neck might be space for another runway.

Right, either South where the cargo terminal is (which can move) or North there is plenty space too.

As for runways, there are MUCH busier airports int he world that also use a single runway. Runway capacity is not the bottle neck. (Also not in length; it's plenty long for the regional flights the airport gets)

[harrry]

I believe the runway leangth at CNX is enough for everything but the space shuttle.

[NancyL]

I believe the runway leangth at CNX is enough for everything but the space shuttle.

It's close, very close to being able to accomodate the Space Shuttle. According to Wikipedia, CNX has " one runway designated 18/36 with an asphalt surface measuring 3,100 by 45 metres (10,171 ft × 148 ft)."

Wikipedia says "The joint use civilian/military Lincoln Airport/Lincoln Air National Guard Base in Lincoln, Nebraska, USA was designated as an alternate landing site for its unusually and extremely long main runway (12,900 ft. (3,932 m) runway with 1000 ft. over-runs on each end, totaling almost 15,000 ft. length) and low air traffic, both commercial and military.^[29][30][31] No space shuttle landing ever occurred there."

The Space Shuttle never landed in Lincoln, Nebraska, but it was authorized as a back-up site -- not much longer runway than CNX (well, maybe CNX doesn't have those 1000 ft over-runs on each end)

[arunsakda]

10 years? Why did you not move? I stayed in an apartment and moved for noise after a few months (constant crashing footsteps from above) another due to heat that began in Febuary! Extreme heat from roof (highest floor) that AC could not counter. Both in Texas. I also was tempted to move from an apatment in California due to a downstairs neighbor who smoked cigarrette what odor drifted in my general direction. But fortunately he died suddenly.

Edited February 16, 2016 by arunsakda

[arunsakda]

So the best thing you can do is move. Airliner noise not a problem on the vicinity of designated 24 hour airports. Cigarettes the worst thing in the world, killing more than terrorists could ever dream of.

Edited February 16, 2016 by arunsakda

[harrry]

The fact it is single runway is not a problem. A single runway can support 360 planes a day landing and taking off. This should be enough to meet chiangMais needs for many years....as long as it 24/7.

Good for the environment and maximum usage of planes.

[Ricardo]

In fact London-Gatwick, the world's busiest single-runway airport, managed 255,711 movements (landings + take-offs) in the year to 31st March 2015, that's about 700 movements per-day, based on a 365-day year.

Since it is busier in summer than in winter, they actually achieve more movements per-day, at times !

http://www.gatwickairport.com/business-community/about-gatwick/at-a-glance/facts-stats/

[harrry]

right 700 movements....350 take offs and 350 landings. 350 planes a day.

[Mapguy]

 

I would like to start a petition to keep the airport in just the same place it is now and not mess with it, beyond adding gates and a parking building.

Hear! Hear! They definitely need a bigger terminal and more parking, but it's great just where it is.

(and don't get me started on the incoming immigration hall)

 

Don't get you started?! Why not! Let 'er rip!

Edited February 16, 2016 by Mapguy

[Mapguy]

Nobody has yet considered being invaded once again by the Burmese and the importance of this long strip for B52 aircraft ferried in from the USA to respond. Meanwhile, in Lincoln, Nebraska, where the mayor (maybe a state senator?) clearly owned a concrete plant...

[2fishin2]

It's only in the winter, they take off over the city, due to the wind direction.

The rest of the year they take off over Hang Dong.

Incorrect; the majority of flights take off and turn over the City all year long. The only time they take off to the South is when there are no incoming flights due.

They take off in both directions all year long. Wind direction isn't a big factor as there usually isn't any. Chinese flights take off north as that is their direction, bkk (and others) to the south for the same reason. If an incoming flight is close they go north and turn. When they take off south they turn left after take off to make the separation of inbound flights. Its all about saving fuel, taking off in the opposite direction and turning to your course uses more fuel.

You obviously need to go back to school to learn about aircraft operations.

[NancyL]

Nobody has yet considered being invaded once again by the Burmese and the importance of this long strip for B52 aircraft ferried in from the USA to respond. Meanwhile, in Lincoln, Nebraska, where the mayor (maybe a state senator?) clearly owned a concrete plant...

And I doubt that CNX would cease to operate even if a new airport was built in the hinderlands. They didn't shut down DMX when BKK came on did they? That seems to be the pattern. The in-city airport slows down for a few years, then becomes the home for the big in-country budget airline and before long the in-country airline goes international and before you know it, the city has TWO international airports. One conveniently located, another not and confused international travelers thinking they can book flights between airlines that don't serve both airports.

For a time when we lived in Houston, you could actually book a Continental airline flight between the two airports that served that city.

[CNXBKKMAN]

For the people who can't accept the aircraft noise in CM modern jets are nowhere near as noisy or smokey as they were in the 70's and early 80's.

[harrry]

Chiang Mai has one problem and that is in relation to West bound flights. The area west of the airport and extended is highly prohibied area bith as a military area and the palace//

[eaglesflight]

The fly-by-night is not simply a matter of "nimbyism". It's also a matter of civilized living. Google what happens at Heathrow to make an interesting comparison: also Paris CDG appears not to have any arrivals between midnight and 4 am:

Number of flights at night

Between 11:30pm and 6am Heathrow is restricted by the Government to 5,800 night-time take-offs and landings a year. There is also a night quota limit, which caps the amount of noise the airport can make at night. Around 80% of the night flights at Heathrow are between 4.30-6am with on average around 16 aircraft are scheduled to arrive each day between these hours. Heathrow also has a voluntary ban in place that prevents flights scheduled between 4:30am-6am from landing before 4:30am. We also do not schedule any departures between 11pm and 6am.

This is from

http://www.heathrow.com/noise/heathrow-operations/night-flights

Heathrow, CDG these are some of the biggest and busiest airports in the world. Non stop landings every minute with the biggest aircraft. Compared to them, CM is a sleepy backwater airport with 3 or 4 flights between midnight and 06:00. Complaining about such a small number of flights which are economically important for the city is a bit of a joke.

Did you actually read the quotation from the Heathrow document? If you did, you would not have written "Non-stop landings every minute" - as the quote pointed out, there are very very few (or no) landings between midnight and 4 am. No take-offs at all.

The pause in take-off and landing has nothing to do with tourism or making money (as it does in CM), but with making life as bearable as possible for those who live near Heathrow or Charles de Gaulle.

You can't compare CNX airport with Heathrow or CDG. Those airports have a break because they are non stop for 18 hours of the day. Heathrow does have aircraft landing every minute during the daytime. Chiang Mai depending on the day of the week has 2, 3 or 4 flights between hours midnight and 06:00. This does not qualify it to be comparable to LHR, Atlanta, Beijing or Dubai , JFK etc

You're missing the point really. I think what he's saying is that if the busiest airport in the world can virtually eliminate flight noise between midnight and 04.30, it shouldn't be too hard for a crappy little airport like CNX to do the same.

[THAILIBAN]

absurd....invasion....annoying....unbearable....stressful....risky....banned. Drama award of the month?

Try adjusting yourself to accept reality.

the "reality" is: In some civilized countries, there are no flight movements allowed after 1o or 11 pm (Frankfurt, for example)

[NancyL]

This thread has me feeling all nostalgic. I've checked what went down at DTW in the last 24 hours. Sure enough, no flights after 1:30 am. Looks like they're still reserved the 4:45 - 5:30 am time slot for landings of FedEx and now UPS flights. And then commercial passengers flights start to take off at 5:30 am. 10 departures between 5:30 and 6 am. Wonder if the OP could live with that? Then there were 15 arrivals in the next hour. After that I got bored counting.

As I said, Hubby and I just got used to stopping conversation every few minutes when a plane flew overhead.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

absurd....invasion....annoying....unbearable....stressful....risky....banned. Drama award of the month?

Try adjusting yourself to accept reality.

the "reality" is: In some civilized countries, there are no flight movements allowed after 1o or 11 pm (Frankfurt, for example)

Yes, we're all here because of the civilization.

Edited February 17, 2016 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Ricardo]

Chiang Mai has one problem and that is in relation to West bound flights. The area west of the airport and extended is highly prohibied area bith as a military area and the palace//

There's also that inconvenient 5,000-foot mountain in the way.

Turning to the East, and then South, as planes climb makes a lot of sense !

[Bill97]

absurd....invasion....annoying....unbearable....stressful....risky....banned. Drama award of the month?

Try adjusting yourself to accept reality.

the "reality" is: In some civilized countries, there are no flight movements allowed after 1o or 11 pm (Frankfurt, for example)

Whatever is going on in the country of Frankfurt wherever that is, is their reality, not ours.

Absurd to think that just because something is happening someplace in the world that it is reasonable to have it happening here.

[harrry]

Another point is that London has several airports some of which have no curfew.

In fact Heathrow does not have a curfew. It is open for aircraft wih a noise level below a certain threshold.

[MadMac]

Chiang Mai has one problem and that is in relation to West bound flights. The area west of the airport and extended is highly prohibied area bith as a military area and the palace//

I think the issue is that the runway is pretty much North-South aligned. Would not be so easy to start west-wards. Perhaps the Kan Air Cesna could do it without hitting the mountain

[harrry]

Actually the whole area west of the runway exeded in both directions several miles is reserved military space....This prevents aircraft taking off in a Northerly direction and mking a left hand Uturn as is done at many airports. This would avoid the main part of the city bu maybe give TVwais a second look at them.

THere is several kilometers of space at a safe altiude on track west.

I see no reason to have an East West runway although if it were not for the developement on the North East of the airport a normal parralel would be better. It would however, but I see little need for it to have a north South runway to the west of the airport but displaced so that it starts with the North End of it parralel with the south end of the present runway. THis is done in some other places with similar terrain.

[MadMac]

West of the runway is Canal Road and lots of houses. The military space is on the north east corner (Wing 41). Not big either. Perhaps you mistake it for something else. Use Google Maps to inform yourself.

[Fookhaht]

Never hear them,as I am asleep that time of night.

regards Worgeordie

Similarly, I've been to Chiang Mai 7 or 8 times and never once heard or was bothered by jet noise.

The OP must live near the airport.

Was that a choice?

Edited February 18, 2016 by Fookhaht

[harrry]

I think you should try looking at the right maps Mad Mac

Here are a couple but there are more listed.....

It is not the facilities on the airfield we are talking about but the airspace.

http://www.aisthai.aviation.go.th/webais/download_aip.php

VT D41 Mae Rim, Chiang Mai Area bounded by lines joining successively the following points : 202700N 995400E on Thai-Myanmar border to 184700N 995400E 184700N 990900E then follow the arc 10 NM counter clockwise from Chiang Mai TACAN ( 184614N 985811E ) to 185600N 985400E 191800N 984200E 194600N 984200E on Thai-Myanmar border thence follow the boundary to the starting point. Excluding Airway W20 between FL75-FL200 Chiang Mai TMA and Chiang Rai TMA.

VT D42 Chom Thong, Chiang Mai Area bounded by lines joining successively the following points : 184700N 974500E on Thai-Myanmar border to 184700N 984800E 182000N 985800E 173000N 985800E 173000N 980000E on Thai-Myanmar border thence follow the boundary to the starting point.

Edited February 18, 2016 by harrry

[MadMac]

Sorry, I don't understand what you try to communicate.

[MadMac]

Never hear them,as I am asleep that time of night.

regards Worgeordie

Similarly, I've been to Chiang Mai 7 or 8 times and never once heard or was bothered by jet noise.

The OP must live near the airport.

Was that a choice?

There is one runway, they give it two names, 36 and 18. 36 is where most of the traffic goes, landing from south, taking off north, that is over the Nimman area. And as there are lots of new build condos, lots of people are complaining.

Easy solution, look for a place on runway 18, that is when the start in the opposite direction

[Dante99]

Never hear them,as I am asleep that time of night.

regards Worgeordie

Similarly, I've been to Chiang Mai 7 or 8 times and never once heard or was bothered by jet noise.

The OP must live near the airport.

Was that a choice?

No it was not a choice. Immigration chooses certain people upon entry and tells them where they must live and they can not choose another place. The unlucky ones must live near the airport, open air late night bars and crematoriums. Their 90 day reports, TM 28s and TM 30s are audited carefully.