U.S. sex offenders challenge new passport law

[Dap]

Almost 2 billion people worldwide idolize pedophiles. Im not talking about a 15yr with a 17yr old. Im talking about fat old man marrying a 6 year old and having his wicked way with her 3 years later. This whole move to normalize pedophilia is quite revolting.

" Almost 2 billion people worldwide idolize pedophiles."

Maybe I'm just slow this morning but, I don't understand this statement.

Care to explain? and while I'm in this questioning mode, who is trying

to "normalize pedophilia"?

Yes I'm in Thailand, but fairly well read and I don't consider myself

entirely out of the loop.

[inquisitive]

Just wondering. There are many here who feel that these people should be prevented from travelling to other countries. Do you guys also feel that they should be prevented from travelling to another state? How about restricting them from traveling more than six feet from their front door?

I recognise that there is an extremely high rate of recidivism with these crimes, and I also have children of both sexes, but I'm struggling with where to draw the line on restricting their freedom. I'm not defending them. Just trying to decide what is the best response to these horrible, horrible crimes.

Will confining a sex offender to America really help?

Why haven't we tattooed a big symbol on their foreheads? I'd have to guess for reasons that would also apply here. So what are those reasons?

I'm not even going to bring up the case in the news yesterday of the fellow who wants to get his brother out of prison on the basis that he himself committed the crime (that was about sexually abusing a minor, wasn't it? I'm not sure. )

Even if we make the preposterous assumption that the courts are always right, this is a very thorny problem. As already stated, this particular solution starts us down a very slippery slope.

[lvr181]

Might as well put yellow stars on all Jews, then.

Jeez - hardly the same thing!

In case you are wondering, I am not a Jew or (as far as I know) related to any.

Edited February 18, 2016 by lvr181

[bangon04]

A very slippery slope.

Only if you are a kiddy fiddler. Great law. Keep the deviants out of circulation.

Many more sex offenders than just kiddy fiddlers. How about statutory rape e.g.? 17 yo boy has sex with 15 yo girl, mark in passport follows. At least that is the impression I get.

So are you suggesting that the 17 year DIDN'T break a law? Or that it is acceptable to have sex with a 15 year old because he was 17?

Depends entirely on which country in the world the 17 year old boy and the 15 year old girl are. Or in which state of the union, even...... These laws are arbitrary - only the religious puritans claim absolute certainty of knowledge.

[casualbiker]

A very slippery slope.

Only if you are a kiddy fiddler. Great law. Keep the deviants out of circulation.

Many more sex offenders than just kiddy fiddlers. How about statutory rape e.g.? 17 yo boy has sex with 15 yo girl, mark in passport follows. At least that is the impression I get.

So are you suggesting that the 17 year DIDN'T break a law? Or that it is acceptable to have sex with a 15 year old because he was 17?

Depends entirely on which country in the world the 17 year old boy and the 15 year old girl are. Or in which state of the union, even...... These laws are arbitrary - only the religious puritans claim absolute certainty of knowledge.

So there are still states in the USA (the thread is about the USA) that allow sex with a 15 old. Wow, worse than I thought!

[callaway]

Might as well put yellow stars on all Jews, then.

That one has already been done to death

[Asheron]

A very slippery slope.

Only if you are a kiddy fiddler. Great law. Keep the deviants out of circulation.

Many more sex offenders than just kiddy fiddlers. How about statutory rape e.g.? 17 yo boy has sex with 15 yo girl, mark in passport follows. At least that is the impression I get.

So are you suggesting that the 17 year DIDN'T break a law? Or that it is acceptable to have sex with a 15 year old because he was 17?

In most (almost all?) of he European countries that would be perfectly fine.

[humqdpf]

Finally, one thing that Obama did that I agree and applauds him, about time those sex offenders

pay dearly for their criminally sexual deviances......

Ever peed in an alley on the way home from the pub - that is indecent exposure in some places

A woman who showed off her breasts to make a point at a demonstration about breast feeding - that is lewd behaviour.

Had sex late at night in the park where no one is around except the police officers who from afar pick it up on their infra-red viewer

A person who is enticed into a sexual encounter and money is then mentioned - that is prostitution.

Recently, the British man who was walking through a train station and a woman he brushed past claimed he groped her and maintained the claim even after thorough exam of the CC TV showed otherwise.

Without the CC TV in the last case, that man and the previous cases would all be "sex offenders."

The boy who turns 16 and who legally has been having sex with his girlfriend still aged 15 until his 16th birthday. Until recently this used to be a favourite of prosecutors in certain states in the USA - I think that this version of statutory rape charge has been cleared from the statute books.

Yes, if you have a workable age of consent (for instance, where the older participant is over 18 before it becomes an offence and the younger participant is over a certain age etc). Or if you are talking about convicted rapists and child molesters, of course.

But are we going to put the same label on all the other examples I cited above as we put on the rapists and child molesters?

[Scouse123]

The problem with these ideas that they test to become laws is that is exactly what they are doing to us....testing to see how far they can go! These things are all about ' controlling us ' they are not about what is right.

The young lad who has a relationship with his girlfriend who is 15 years and 9 months and he is 17 gets put on the register because it is considered ' statutory rape ' in some countries. The young boy who has just started university peeing in a shop doorway after a drunken night out with friends gets on the register.So does the school class clown who streaks across a football pitch for a ' dare ' from his friends.

However, the 45 year old Pakistani Muslims, for example, who abuses an 11 year old girl, well, that case gets brushed under the carpet because he is doing what he is allowed to do in the Koran which supersedes all western countries laws in his eyes, and the West does......nothing! The Muslim also says he is doing nothing wrong and he answers to a higher law of ' Allah ' and the other 1 billion plus Muslims stand in agreement with him because it is in the Koran.

Many ask why don't moderate Muslims stand up and decry the actions of ' terrorists??? ' Because, it's all there in black and white in the Koran!! To side with our laws on decency and common sense goes against what is written in their book and that is the end of the matter in their eyes. All the throwing off tall buildings, the killings if they don't change religion or pay ' taxes ' (Jizya) in reparations to Muslims, ALL OF IT. Even their ' prophet ' married a 9 year old girl, so you think they will pay any heed to western laws?

Do not any person say this would be ' rare ' or an ' exception ' the courts are jammed packed full of these cases, and worse, in the U.K. with these people. Laws like this are dangerous and lead to worse things to come. If you run a survey or poll on TV, you will get all the ' hang them high ' brigade voting for such measures, but they do so without looking down the road at additions to such laws and the far reaching effects they have on those not intended to be caught in such laws as mentioned above.

You DO NOT STAMP PASSPORTS. What you do, if the fear is they will commit acts of paedophilia in another country, is a TRAVEL BAN if warranted. You don't even let them travel in the first place.

As I said, these are all attempts to control us not to make us safe.

[jaywalker]

Depends entirely on which country in the world the 17 year old boy and the 15 year old girl are. Or in which state of the union, even...... These laws are arbitrary - only the religious puritans claim absolute certainty of knowledge.

My Dad was 19 & Mom was 16 when they got married.

They made it 51 years together when Dad died at 70.

Mom is 79 now.

Had 5 kids.

Pops was an outstanding fella. We were never rich but never poor.

Mom (to me) still has the mind of a 16 year old. She has made the 6 hour road trip to where I am now 25 times at least, and gets lost every time.

Dad sure did love Mom to be able to put up with her is all I can say.

I'm probably not alone in saying that my Mom drives me nuts.

[casualbiker]

A very slippery slope.

Only if you are a kiddy fiddler. Great law. Keep the deviants out of circulation.

Many more sex offenders than just kiddy fiddlers. How about statutory rape e.g.? 17 yo boy has sex with 15 yo girl, mark in passport follows. At least that is the impression I get.

So are you suggesting that the 17 year DIDN'T break a law? Or that it is acceptable to have sex with a 15 year old because he was 17?

In most (almost all?) of he European countries that would be perfectly fine.

Your correct. I wasn't aware as in the UK it is 16. An age that I agree with (as a teenager I didn't, lol)

Is it acceptable to have sex at 15? Would you like your son or daughter having sex legally before they have even left school?

Edited February 18, 2016 by casualbiker

[Berkshire]

Man, you guys are coming up with all sorts of scenarios and possibilities as if suddenly, our liberty and human rights are somehow in danger. This is the title of the law:

H.R.515 - International Megan's Law to Prevent Child Exploitation and Other Sexual Crimes Through Advanced Notification of Traveling Sex Offenders

So if you're not a convicted child molester, what in freaks name are you so hyped up about? And does America actually convict 17 yr olds for having consensual sex with a 15 yr old? C'mon.

I'm sure there may be one or two instances where this law may be unfair for certain individuals. But if it prevents pedos from coming to Thailand--which it technically doesn't appear to do, only identifies them--I'd like to give this new law a standing ovation.

[captspectre]

Might as well put yellow stars on all Jews, then.

if that becomes the law, the THAI's will have the responsibility of deporting those perverted faggots when they land in swampy! no more pleading ignorance! if they don't then we will all know just what kind of tourist thailand wants!

[ourmanflint]

Almost 2 billion people worldwide idolize pedophiles. Im not talking about a 15yr with a 17yr old. Im talking about fat old man marrying a 6 year old and having his wicked way with her 3 years later. This whole move to normalize pedophilia is quite revolting.

This sounds like you're saying all Muslim men from certain countries are sex offenders, I wouldn't disagree, but let's be open about it.

[Scouse123]

Man, you guys are coming up with all sorts of scenarios and possibilities as if suddenly, our liberty and human rights are somehow in danger. This is the title of the law:

H.R.515 - International Megan's Law to Prevent Child Exploitation and Other Sexual Crimes Through Advanced Notification of Traveling Sex Offenders

So if you're not a convicted child molester, what in freaks name are you so hyped up about? And does America actually convict 17 yr olds for having consensual sex with a 15 yr old? C'mon.

I'm sure there may be one or two instances where this law may be unfair for certain individuals. But if it prevents pedos from coming to Thailand--which it technically doesn't appear to do, only identifies them--I'd like to give this new law a standing ovation.

And so it begins.........

I want to see a travel ban on anyone who has a DUI or drink driving or drug driving conviction in their country of origin, where there has been an accident and injury to others, to prevent them travelling to another country and doing it there. After all, we are looking at what a person has done previously, they may very well drink/drug and drive and injure somebody in a third world country where they do not have great medical care like the west and possibly leave them open to danger or put them in harms way.

Why stop there, eh? Let's stop all people travelling who have HIV infections as they might have sex abroad and infect somebody else when ' big brother ' is not looking on camera or monitoring them constantly. Let's push the boat out completely.

Let's stop all citizens of a country from travelling where they have a high percentage of hookers subjected to an in depth scrutiny at border control when they arrive in Europe to make sure they are genuine tourists.They MIGHT just MIGHT be bringing in infectious diseases. Better still, make them all bring a police report with them to say they are of good character and a clean bill of health from a hospital, one that's accredited of course.

Ridiculous all the above eh??, No more stupid than these passport laws the USA is planning on introducing.

Only those convicted of these offences we hear you say??....Yes, well, the USA has such a fantastic judicial system, that never gets it wrong. How many cases have been proved wrong for those poor bastards that died on death row that were innocent??? How many do we hear about getting released after 20/30 years on new DNA evidence INCLUDING alleged paedophiles?

The USA account for about 5% of the world population with 25% of the world's prison population. Yep, great track record.We should all be following the USA as a role model for our own countries.

Edited February 18, 2016 by Scouse123

[jaywalker]

Might as well put yellow stars on all Jews, then.

That one has already been done to death

I'm not Jewish, but I fail to see where tarring everyone with the same feather could ever be done to death.

Poor choice of words on your part too.

I was having sex before I was 18 with girls less than 18 that were quite willing to participate.

Luckily I had the brains to use a rubber, otherwise I could be on this list.

[thaibeachlovers]

A very slippery slope.

Only if you are a kiddy fiddler. Great law. Keep the deviants out of circulation.

Many more sex offenders than just kiddy fiddlers. How about statutory rape e.g.? 17 yo boy has sex with 15 yo girl, mark in passport follows. At least that is the impression I get.

So are you suggesting that the 17 year DIDN'T break a law? Or that it is acceptable to have sex with a 15 year old because he was 17?

Far as I know in no other western country would that be regarded as a crime worthy of sex offender status. In my own country I'm sure it would be hard to find a 15 year old virgin.

Only in the US, IMO, a country with 5th largest numbers of child sex offenders ( according to International Business Times ) and probably the biggest porn industry in the world, is it regarded as a heinous crime worthy of destroying a child's life over.

[thaidrew]

The problem with these ideas that they test to become laws is that is exactly what they are doing to us....testing to see how far they can go! These things are all about ' controlling us ' they are not about what is right.

The young lad who has a relationship with his girlfriend who is 15 years and 9 months and he is 17 gets put on the register because it is considered ' statutory rape ' in some countries. The young boy who has just started university peeing in a shop doorway after a drunken night out with friends gets on the register.So does the school class clown who streaks across a football pitch for a ' dare ' from his friends.

However, the 45 year old Pakistani Muslims, for example, who abuses an 11 year old girl, well, that case gets brushed under the carpet because he is doing what he is allowed to do in the Koran which supersedes all western countries laws in his eyes, and the West does......nothing! The Muslim also says he is doing nothing wrong and he answers to a higher law of ' Allah ' and the other 1 billion plus Muslims stand in agreement with him because it is in the Koran.

Many ask why don't moderate Muslims stand up and decry the actions of ' terrorists??? ' Because, it's all there in black and white in the Koran!! To side with our laws on decency and common sense goes against what is written in their book and that is the end of the matter in their eyes. All the throwing off tall buildings, the killings if they don't change religion or pay ' taxes ' (Jizya) in reparations to Muslims, ALL OF IT. Even their ' prophet ' married a 9 year old girl, so you think they will pay any heed to western laws?

Do not any person say this would be ' rare ' or an ' exception ' the courts are jammed packed full of these cases, and worse, in the U.K. with these people. Laws like this are dangerous and lead to worse things to come. If you run a survey or poll on TV, you will get all the ' hang them high ' brigade voting for such measures, but they do so without looking down the road at additions to such laws and the far reaching effects they have on those not intended to be caught in such laws as mentioned above.

You DO NOT STAMP PASSPORTS. What you do, if the fear is they will commit acts of paedophilia in another country, is a TRAVEL BAN if warranted. You don't even let them travel in the first place.

As I said, these are all attempts to control us not to make us safe.

Well said

[manarak]

yes...

I think it is a very questionable law, precisely for this reason.

is the same thing required for a murderer?

I think this kind of information has nothing to do on a passport, beyond the problem of where to draw the line between dangerous sex offenders and hermless sex offenders (am I right when I believe people caught hiring a prostitute are sex offenders?)

a couple of interesting articles:

http://www.businessinsider.com/surprising-things-that-could-make-you-a-sex-offender-2013-10?IR=T

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2014/08/mapped_sex_offender_registry_laws_on_statutory_rape_public_urination_and.html

having such a mark on a passport is just an invitation to get abused, framed or given a hard time by officers all your life just because you urinated in public when drunk.

I can't understand how such a law could be enacted - are we sure the news are not fake?

I'm pretty sure that a murderer would ACTUALLY be in jail! Surely the sex offenders in the US are in a central register anyway! If not. What a fxxking cockup!

murderers are released once they did the time... don't you know that?

REALLY! In the USA can you Actually name one murderer alive that was released from jail.. Ie: he didn't get life imprisonment!

the average prison sentence for murder in the US is seven years:

http://www.wdrb.com/story/25999947/sunday-edition-after-54-years-kentuckys-longest-serving-inmate-has-chance-for-release

about 120 murderers are released every year from US prisons

https://fullfact.org/crime/how-long-do-murderers-serve-prison/

[casualbiker]

yes...
I think it is a very questionable law, precisely for this reason.

is the same thing required for a murderer?

I think this kind of information has nothing to do on a passport, beyond the problem of where to draw the line between dangerous sex offenders and hermless sex offenders (am I right when I believe people caught hiring a prostitute are sex offenders?)

a couple of interesting articles:
http://www.businessinsider.com/surprising-things-that-could-make-you-a-sex-offender-2013-10?IR=T
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2014/08/mapped_sex_offender_registry_laws_on_statutory_rape_public_urination_and.html

having such a mark on a passport is just an invitation to get abused, framed or given a hard time by officers all your life just because you urinated in public when drunk.

I can't understand how such a law could be enacted - are we sure the news are not fake?

I'm pretty sure that a murderer would ACTUALLY be in jail! Surely the sex offenders in the US are in a central register anyway! If not. What a fxxking cockup!

murderers are released once they did the time... don't you know that?

REALLY! In the USA can you Actually name one murderer alive that was released from jail.. Ie: he didn't get life imprisonment!

the average prison sentence for murder in the US is seven years:
http://www.wdrb.com/story/25999947/sunday-edition-after-54-years-kentuckys-longest-serving-inmate-has-chance-for-release

about 120 murderers are released every year from US prisons
https://fullfact.org/crime/how-long-do-murderers-serve-prison/

Wow again!

[MaeJoMTB]

A very slippery slope.

Only if you are a kiddy fiddler. Great law. Keep the deviants out of circulation.

Many more sex offenders than just kiddy fiddlers. How about statutory rape e.g.? 17 yo boy has sex with 15 yo girl, mark in passport follows. At least that is the impression I get.

So are you suggesting that the 17 year DIDN'T break a law? Or that it is acceptable to have sex with a 15 year old because he was 17?

Not to mention,

Retrospective rape, informed consent accusations, accusations by former lovers .... etc.

[impulse]

I'm glad I grew up when hanging a moon out the back of my buddy's moving station wagon, or even out the side of the team bus didn't put us on the sex offender rolls.

[MaeJoMTB]

Many more sex offenders than just kiddy fiddlers. How about statutory rape e.g.? 17 yo boy has sex with 15 yo girl, mark in passport follows. At least that is the impression I get.

So are you suggesting that the 17 year DIDN'T break a law? Or that it is acceptable to have sex with a 15 year old because he was 17?

17 year old didn't break the law in UK, France, Spain, Portugal, Norway, Sweden, Thailand, Cambodia, Russia, Saudi .......

America is not the world, but a very repressed and dangerous place full of religious righteousness.

Edited February 18, 2016 by MaeJoMTB

[casualbiker]

Many more sex offenders than just kiddy fiddlers. How about statutory rape e.g.? 17 yo boy has sex with 15 yo girl, mark in passport follows. At least that is the impression I get.

So are you suggesting that the 17 year DIDN'T break a law? Or that it is acceptable to have sex with a 15 year old because he was 17?

17 year old didn't break the law in UK, France, Spain, Portugal, Norway, Sweden, Thailand, Cambodia, Russia, Saudi .......

America is not the world, but a very repressed and dangerous place full of religious righteousness.

he would have broken the law in the UK as the age of consent is 16! Not sure if you would be put on the sex offenders register if the girl was 15 though.

[Jingthing]

My understanding is that in some states in the U.S. you can get put on the lifetime "sex offender" list for offenses as absurdly minor as public urination. So, of course, those people shouldn't have to suffer any lifetime stigma including passport labeling. That's the problem I see with it.

It's more common than people think, sex offender labeling of people who really aren't the kind of sex offenders that anyone rational would see as a threat to society.

Edited February 18, 2016 by Jingthing

[MaeJoMTB]

he would have broken the law in the UK as the age of consent is 16! Not sure if you would be put on the sex offenders register if the girl was 15 though.

Nope,

Different rules for males under the age of 21 in the UK.

Warning only unless he's a repeat offender with multiple partners.

[casualbiker]

My understanding is that in some states in the U.S. you can get put on the lifetime "sex offender" list for offenses as absurdly minor as public urination. So, of course, those people shouldn't have to suffer any lifetime stigma including passport labeling. That's the problem I see with it.

It's more common than people think, sex offender labeling of people who really aren't the kind of sex offenders that anyone rational would see as a threat to society.

If that is the case then. Yes I can see the problem! And people in those states should talk to their representatives to annul such ridiculous laws!

[MaeJoMTB]

My understanding is that in some states in the U.S. you can get put on the lifetime "sex offender" list for offenses as absurdly minor as public urination. So, of course, those people shouldn't have to suffer any lifetime stigma including passport labeling. That's the problem I see with it.

It's more common than people think, sex offender labeling of people who really aren't the kind of sex offenders that anyone rational would see as a threat to society.

Not to mention gays, 'cottaging' would also get on the list, because of governmental homophobia.

[casualbiker]

he would have broken the law in the UK as the age of consent is 16! Not sure if you would be put on the sex offenders register if the girl was 15 though.

Nope,

Different rules for males under the age of 21 in the UK.

Warning only unless he's a repeat offender with multiple partners.

probably a reasonable idea. But a warning still shows he broke the law.

[impulse]

My understanding is that in some states in the U.S. you can get put on the lifetime "sex offender" list for offenses as absurdly minor as public urination. So, of course, those people shouldn't have to suffer any lifetime stigma including passport labeling. That's the problem I see with it.

It's more common than people think, sex offender labeling of people who really aren't the kind of sex offenders that anyone rational would see as a threat to society.

Not to mention gays, 'cottaging' would also get on the list, because of governmental homophobia.

Gotta admit. I had to look that one up, not being from the UK.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cottaging

I'm going to add that to the list of crap I've learned on the interweb that I'll never need to use. Like when I Googled "sharking".

Edited February 18, 2016 by impulse