Living offgrid with small solar system(s)

[George Harmony]

@IMHO,

Yeah..he did not show the startup.

How to pump when you have a night time pool party

Easy...hahahaa....joking.....

[Naam]

Some filter design considerations needed with all your clever minds.

easiest solution would be washable filter bags

Do filters operate under pressure Naam? if not; could all the pumps feed into one manifold then into just one washable gravity-fed filter bag you suggest?

Individual pump outputs should be able to be visibly monitored, given appropriate manifold design.

I have no idea of volumes of water turnover but is 67 litres/ minute multiplied by say 10 feasibly enough for what size pool?

Naam some answers have come thanks by my looking carefully at your recent posts and has given me fresh hope that we will have a solar powered smaller pool after all. (with these modern pumps available that is).

Are we talking about pool filters still?

As sand filters get bigger, they actually get harder to push water through - as cartridges get bigger, they are easier to push water through. I have both types - when fully cleaned the sand filter has a static pressure of 5 PSI, the cartridge filter <1 PSI.

yes pool filters.

@Joe, washable filter bags can be used with gravity flow that no pump wattage to overcome filter resistance is wasted. required is however that the bags (plural) are cleaned more often. what you need is an additional buffer tank in which the pool overflows during pumping time. your pump array would then suck from buffer tank and pool, adjustable by a simple set of valves.

if you want a simple sketch i'll be happy to provide one.

@George, what do you think of having a second tank in which you boil rice with supercapacitors and use the hot water for showering?

[George Harmony]

-if one pump fails the people in my home can with the remaining pump flush many stinky-stinkies down the drain, have showers, wash dishes and cars.

Calculate how many liters you need for lets say 3 days, store it in a tank as high as you want to get more bars. Im wondering if your ups can handle the pumps in case of power outage.....if not, how do you do with your "stinky Stinky". I use only 150ltr and have 3 days time to fix my pump if its kaput.

[George Harmony]

@George, what do you think of having a second tank in which you boil rice with supercapacitors and use the hot water for showering?

Plan to make one with plastic bottles or cola cans. Store in an insulated tank. Only to get warmer water for shower purposes only. Laundry? A maid of a nabor do my laundry at her home to gain extra "ngen"

Edited March 15, 2016 by George Harmony

[tracker]

A while back a car AC system was discussed for a home. I believe it was Naam who mentioned it. I am very interested to try to set this up but i have one question, regarding the 12v motor which would drive the compressor by belt.

Wouldn't a 12v motor be too weak for this? I imagine a big start current which would require thick wire in the motor. Or was the motor maybe 24v or 48v? Can anyone give some advice here what kind of dc motor to use?

[IMHO]

A while back a car AC system was discussed for a home. I believe it was Naam who mentioned it. I am very interested to try to set this up but i have one question, regarding the 12v motor which would drive the compressor by belt.

Wouldn't a 12v motor be too weak for this? I imagine a big start current which would require thick wire in the motor. Or was the motor maybe 24v or 48v? Can anyone give some advice here what kind of dc motor to use?

Forget volts - talk in HP or watts.

My kid has a radio controlled car with a DC brushless motor that makes 8HP from an 11.1V LiPo battery, for example

[Naam]

-if one pump fails the people in my home can with the remaining pump flush many stinky-stinkies down the drain, have showers, wash dishes and cars.

Calculate how many liters you need for lets say 3 days, store it in a tank as high as you want to get more bars. Im wondering if your ups can handle the pumps in case of power outage.....if not, how do you do with your "stinky Stinky". I use only 150ltr and have 3 days time to fix my pump if its kaput.

if you would focus more on what is written here instead of watching boring youtube clips you'd know that one (the most important!) of the back-up systems in my home is for the water supply each consisting of a battery bank (480Ah) and an inverter.

and no, i cannot just construct an ugly 30m high water tower with voluminous tanks that can serve 5 people for three days because i live in a gated community where certain restrictions apply.

besides, only an @idiot would spend an amount of money on a water tower equivalent to half a dozen or more proper back-up systems each with an inverter or alternatively a dozen back-up pumps.

next intelligent advice please

[George Harmony]

Forget volts - talk in HP or watts.

My kid has a radio controlled car with a DC brushless motor that makes 8HP from an 11.1V LiPo battery, for example

When i first search on youtube about solar powered car i clicked on this video of kidcar which the dad added a solar panel. Wonder how many hp this toy have??

[Naam]

A while back a car AC system was discussed for a home. I believe it was Naam who mentioned it. I am very interested to try to set this up but i have one question, regarding the 12v motor which would drive the compressor by belt.

Wouldn't a 12v motor be too weak for this? I imagine a big start current which would require thick wire in the motor. Or was the motor maybe 24v or 48v? Can anyone give some advice here what kind of dc motor to use?

an automotive compressor does not demand the same huge starting amps from its driving motor like a conventional compressor plus you have several posibilities to reduce the initial load on the driving motor, e.g. by pulley selection (big at compressor, small at motor with an added flywheel) and engage the clutch after motor/flywheel are up to nominal revs and the flywheel providing additional torque.

another advantage of the automotive compressor is that unlike a conventional one it works at variable speeds. that of course with variable cooling capacity.

[George Harmony]

the back-up systems in my home is for the water supply each consisting of a battery bank (480Ah) and an inverter.

Wonderful....my compliments....

If you run your pc or laptops, fridge, tv etc...you can run also your waterpumps. Or did i understand well that your ups is ONLY for your waterpump(s).

As i type this there is an outage in my area. Yrsterday also and this afternoon for 3 hours. Lucky im offgrid.....hehrhrheeee

[George Harmony]

and no, i cannot just construct an ugly 30m high water tower with voluminous tanks that can serve 5 people for three days because i live in a gated community where certain restrictions apply.

I think this house from my brother in jkt needs perhaps more water than you @naam. Not 30m high but enough to get a good flow/pressure.

But @naam=@naam and his way is always the best..........

[Naam]

and no, i cannot just construct an ugly 30m high water tower with voluminous tanks that can serve 5 people for three days because i live in a gated community where certain restrictions apply.

I think this house from my brother in jkt needs perhaps more water than you @naam. Not 30m high but enough to get a good flow/pressure.

But @naam=@naam and his way is always the best..........

why do you have to post irrelevant rubbish which hampers an interesting technical discussion covering many aspects?

are you to judge whether the water pressure or the flow your brother uses would satisfy my demands? is anyone interested that in his house "perhaps" more water is used than in other houses?

be a good boy now, watch youtube clips, enjoy your wet 12V offgrid dreams and stop bothering adults with your (most of the time) various utmost ridiculous advice!

[TheCruncher]

and no, i cannot just construct an ugly 30m high water tower with voluminous tanks that can serve 5 people for three days because i live in a gated community where certain restrictions apply.

I think this house from my brother in jkt needs perhaps more water than you @naam. Not 30m high but enough to get a good flow/pressure.

But @naam=@naam and his way is always the best..........

why do you have to post irrelevant rubbish which hampers an interesting technical discussion covering many aspects?

are you to judge whether the water pressure or the flow your brother uses would satisfy my demands? is anyone interested that in his house "perhaps" more water is used than in other houses?

be a good boy now, watch youtube clips, enjoy your wet 12V offgrid dreams and stop bothering adults with your (most of the time) various utmost ridiculous advice!

I wonder who started this thread............wait it is George Harmony.

Was that a nerve I heard severing?

[George Harmony]

besides, only an @idiot would spend an amount of money on a water tower equivalent to half a dozen or more proper back-up systems each with an inverter or alternatively a dozen back-up pumps.

Next intellegent remark please .....@naam .... Many idiots in indonesia i presume

Goodnight

[Naam]

the back-up systems in my home is for the water supply each consisting of a battery bank (480Ah) and an inverter.

Wonderful....my compliments....

If you run your pc or laptops, fridge, tv etc...you can run also your waterpumps. Or did i understand well that your ups is ONLY for your waterpump(s).

As i type this there is an outage in my area. Yrsterday also and this afternoon for 3 hours. Lucky im offgrid.....hehrhrheeee

what part of my posting "four systems" is it you don't understand?

ok, midweekend has started and i am in a good mood and will explain:

-four means 4 like 1, 2, 3, 4;

-count the fingers of your left hand;

-start with the index finger (which is 1);

-when you reach the pinky finger (which is 4) you made it!

to preempt more unnecessary questions here some details:

-system #1 is for watersupply to the house only.

-system #2 is for my study (1 PCs, 4 screens, 1 laptop, 1 scanner, 4 modem routers, 3 external harddrives, internet phone and a desklamp)

as well as

my TV-room, screen, 2 sat-receivers, media player, music system and a ceiling fan

-system #3 serves my wife's TV-room (screen, 2 sat-receivers, media player, music system, lighting and a ceiling fan)

as well as

her study (PC, printer, laptop, internet phone, router booster for internet in staffhouse, lighting and ceiling fan.

-system #4 is for 1 microwave, 1 toaster, 1 hot water kettle (no supercapacitors, no rice cooker).

[Naam]

besides, only an @idiot would spend an amount of money on a water tower equivalent to half a dozen or more proper back-up systems each with an inverter or alternatively a dozen back-up pumps.

Next intellegent remark please .....@naam .... Many idiots in indonesia i presume

Goodnight

i agree, that pertains especially to egsburts who compare the pressure out of a water tank a few meters above point of demand with the water pressure of nearly 3 bar provided by a pump

[George Harmony]

Congratulations @naam...wow...what a backupsystem..... Even without using super capacitors im impressed.

Everyone = succesfull if they are satisfied with what they have, so do I with my (till now 12v) small humble solar powered house still in construction.

[Muhendis]

A while back a car AC system was discussed for a home. I believe it was Naam who mentioned it. I am very interested to try to set this up but i have one question, regarding the 12v motor which would drive the compressor by belt.

Wouldn't a 12v motor be too weak for this? I imagine a big start current which would require thick wire in the motor. Or was the motor maybe 24v or 48v? Can anyone give some advice here what kind of dc motor to use?

I had a quick look at a Wiki article on this and the power used/taken from the auto is in the region of 5 to 10 HP. That looks a lot to me but I guess others have asked this question before and there is a noticeable change in engine revs. when you first switch it on if you have a smaller car. Taking the lower of the two figures and assuming the input power is what we're talking about then the power in watts will be 3.73 Kw and with a twelve volt motor that would require an available current of 310 amps. To me that is a really silly number. Just imagine the starting current. So in short assuming that Wiki is right. Don't Go There.

It's possible that there could be a workaround with gears and drive belts etc. however, reflecting on the size of the car saloon and environmental factors, I have smaller powered units in my house that do a very good job in a substantially larger volume.

[George Harmony]

besides, only an @idiot would spend an amount of money on a water tower equivalent to half a dozen or more proper back-up systems each with an inverter or alternatively a dozen back-up pumps.

Next intellegent remark please .....@naam .... Many idiots in indonesia i presume

Goodnight

i agree, that pertains especially to egsburts who compare the pressure out of a water tank a few meters above point of demand with the water pressure of nearly 3 bar provided by a pump

Giving examples/alternatives of having watertank(s) and not needing a backupsystem for waterpump, even in a house where 8-9 people live:

only perhaps supposed high tec idiots design a ups while 12/24 volts pressure/booster pump easily can put up the same desired pressure using a small battery and no need 430ah. Usually only for shower. I presume that when there is an outage you dont have a backup for you washing machine.

Nevertheless.....you have a good backupsystem @naam.....

Question:

Do you use waterfilters for your inhouse water supply and how about drinkwater???

Edited March 16, 2016 by George Harmony

[Naam]

the power used/taken from the auto is in the region of 5 to 10 HP

abso-éffing-lutely wiki-horsesh**. one just has to convert cooling capacity from btu to hp and compare that with the output and power consumption of a conventional aircon.

-automotive aircon for a medium sized sedan 12,000 btu/h based on 50% max RPM = equivalent to a split a/c unit for an average size room.

-the conventional aircon requires an input of ~1.1kWh to produce 12k btu/h, equivalent to 1.475 hp.

wiki's range would mean an energy input with a factor 3 to 6 times higher.

i rest my case

[Naam]

Giving examples/alternatives of having watertank(s) and not needing a backupsystem for waterpump, even in a house where 8-9 people live:

only perhaps supposed high tec idiots design a ups while 12/24 volts pressure/booster pump easily can put up the same desired pressure using a small battery and no need 430ah. Usually only for shower. I presume that when there is an outage you dont have a backup for you washing machine.

Nevertheless.....you have a good backupsystem @naam.....

Question:

Do you use waterfilters for your inhouse water supply and how about drinkwater???

washer and dryer are of course not on any back-up system as their combined power consumption is 7.5 kWh.

we have a filtration system but not a very sophisticated one.

we buy drinking water produced by Nestle, Singha or Chang. wouldn't give my dogs any filtered city water or water from the usually never serviced RO dispensers which available all over.

only perhaps supposed high tec idiots design a ups while 12/24 volts pressure/booster pump easily can put up the same desired pressure using a small battery and no need 430ah.

oh dear! you still have to learn some minimum basics @George!

AH (amp hours) are used to measure the storage and not the output power of a battery or a battery bank. 480 Ah means that i can draw 48 amps for 10 hours till the bank is completely drained. a "sm@ll @George sized b@ttery", capacity e.g. 12Ah, would be empty in 15 minutes.

and that's the reason why "high tec idiots" prefer back-up system with a lot of VROOM OOMPH storage power

[Muhendis]

I had a look at the pros and cons of having a water tower and dismissed it for much the same reasons as most. I didn't much like the idea of pumping the water from my well, through the filter system and then six metres into an ugly monster of an aerial watertank. Cheap to supply the outlets around the house but not cheap to fill the tank. My solution was a Grundfoss three stage pump with a pressurized expansion tank to maintain the 3 bar for the house. Water is pumped from a groundwater well through a filter and into a 2000 litre reservoir tank and then pumped via and underground pipe to the house. The hot water is from the high pressure side using a flat panel heat collector (and @uper capacitor of course). There is a non-return valve in the cold supply to the hot water system and also a separate pressurized expansion tank to maintain equal pressure for hot water. Drinking water comes from the house supply through a "reverse osmosis" filter (and another @uper capacitor of course).

[Naam]

Grundfos = the Rolls Royce of pumps!

slightly off topic... my years in the Arabian desert, the African bush and Asian swamps have taught me the lesson that it's preferable to live a certain period without electricity than without water!

[Naam]

"reverse osmosis"

i was chief project manager constructing an RO seawater desalination plant location Persian/Arabian Gulf. at that time i was technically fit but an absolute chemistry/health layman. to my surprise the U.S. consultants to the Saudi government specified to add a rather sophisticated water treatment to balance pH, alkalinity and most important to reach a minimum content of minerals to reach drinking water standards.

[George Harmony]

AH (amp hours) are used to measure the storage and not the output power of a battery or a battery bank. 480 Ah means that i can draw 48 amps for 10 hours till the bank is completely drained. a "sm@ll @George sized b@ttery", capacity e.g. 12Ah, would be empty in 15 minutes.

i know, thats why i mentioned 12/24volt booster pumps so you dont need a lot ah. Especially when during the day with a relatively small solar panel you can run it free.

About water. Is it possible to filter rainwater to drinkable water?? If possible, is it a huge investment?

Edited March 16, 2016 by George Harmony

[Muhendis]

Grundfos = the Rolls Royce of pumps!

slightly off topic... my years in the Arabian desert, the African bush and Asian swamps have taught me the lesson that it's preferable to live a certain period without electricity than without water!

Roll Royce of expensive spares too I expect. Cheap copies available from somewhere I'm sure.

[Muhendis]

"Reverse Osmosis" is nothing more than a posh name for a filter and UV system which will clean and/or kill all unwanted substances in your water. The system also has its own mini pump so the flow rate is good. I don't know if it has a @uper capacitor but I expect there is one somewhere.

By the way my Grundfoss only needs to run for 30 seconds to get the pressure up which is good because the motor is rated at 1100 Watts.

[Lantern]

Earlier on someone asked about fridges.

Years ago folk on stand alone systems mostly went for gas fridges.

Then gas got ridiculously expensive (here in Australia)

Some guys started buying 240Vac fridges and fitting a Danfoss low voltage compressors.

These days the latest inverter driven compressors make 240Vac fridges the most sensible option.

Especially as the price of panels have dropped through the floor in the last few years.

[Crossy]

"Reverse Osmosis" is nothing more than a posh name for a filter and UV system which will clean and/or kill all unwanted substances in your water.

You mean it's got nothing to do with reverse pressurising an osmotic membrane?

[Muhendis]

"Reverse Osmosis" is nothing more than a posh name for a filter and UV system which will clean and/or kill all unwanted substances in your water.

You mean it's got nothing to do with reverse pressurising an osmotic membrane?

Unless there is a bit of poetic license floating about I would say No. There are three filter elements in mine and they all have different grades of filtering material two of them rattle and the third is some sort of compressed paper element through which passes the water. Let us know if I'm missing something.