The motorcycle helmet issue and Thai roadways

[ardokano]

Riding a scooter is 2000-4000% more dangerous per km than riding in a 4 wheel vehicle. Wearing a helmet reduces that risk by about 40%.

The safety Rubicon is crossed when they strap themselves onto a 2 wheeler- helmet or not.

Wearing a helmet when riding a scooter is like wearing a condom to get it on with a crack whore. Probably a good idea, but that's not the critical safety decision.

Edit: Keep in mind I am well aware of the economic reality that puts most Thai folks onto scooters instead of inside a 4 wheeler with a roof, seats and seatbelts. But some of us don't have the same economic considerations, and I post in hopes that even one less foreigner will be scraped off the highway in spite of the helmet because they reconsidered their choice of transport.

And what kind helmet important.

Even not fullface helmet not protect(at face in iccedent had near 60% injury) i am even not talking about some " helmet" for 200-400 baht..

40% for you its "not the critical safety decision".

Edited February 29, 2016 by ardokano

[ardokano]

Look here your thinking that when wearing A helmet there will be no more motorcycle deaths.I have been to different areas,not Thailand that with

Mandatory helmet laws there were more deaths.The reason is some people think you can't die when wearing A helmet.It's giving them A false sense

Of security.

I've been riding motorcycles since 1967.I don't wear A helmet if I don't have to.I don't ride in big cities either.

The problem with Thailand is The larger the vehicle the more right of way you have.Trucks and buses have all the right of way.Motorcycles,bicycles,perdestrians have little to none.

Wear helmet( and another protect) its not mean you can't die. Its mean less chance get injury. something that you do not wear a helmet is not a reason for pride. this should be ashamed. if you is not important Your life and health, do not advertise it.

I not long time riding motorcicle. Even almast its be moped and scooter. But I had two time on road accident. So only bruises, even concussion was not. and the purchase of a new moped. but I was in full protection.

Only god know what hapened in next meter road. And if not have god no one knows.

[ardokano]

Either they start wearing 'Real' helmets (DOT certified) (the cheapest proper helmet brand in the country) or not wear one at all.

The thing is, only motorcycle enthusiasts care to wear a proper helmet, whether they ride a hayabusa or click . Other people on motorcycles are just those who can't afford a car.

Dot srtificate its NOTHING . Its self test so only on trust. You trast Real?

So if care DOT its not real trustet sertificate.

Becouse even some more expensive brand some times cant pass checking test on model what get DOT sticker.

Need look some another sertificate better when check the specific production batch of helmets from the helmet manufacturer.

[KhruGin]

Umm wear a helmet end of. A helmet has without a doubt saved my life twice, once at 220 kmh and the first thing to hit the ground once id stop doing a superman impression was my head. Shame I havent got a picture of the damage to my very good bell helmet, the helmet was a write off and I wasnt. Umm wear a helmet end of again.

[Familyonthemove]

I always wear a decent helmet when riding my bike - but encasing my head in polystyrene foam and polycarbonate is not ideal in the 40+'C of Bangkok roads.

Would be great if someone designed a helmet designed for the Tropics with 'cycling helmet' inspired ventilation - as I bet heat is one of the main reasons people don't wear a helmet.

I suspect most quality helmets are designed for Europe where heat is less of an issue?

And they also seem to be designed to pass the helmet 'penetration' test rather than for real life situations, and I've seen a few discussion papers (one by a trauma surgeon) suggesting that the thick padding and resulting wide diameter of the helmet creates extra leverage during a glancing blow with the road (a very common result of an accident) and this increasing brain spin injury and neck injury.

For short, low speed city rides I've considered using a good quality cycling helmet as the ventilation is much better than any helmet designed for motorcycles use.

[macknife]

I always wear a decent helmet when riding my bike - but encasing my head in polystyrene foam and polycarbonate is not ideal in the 40+'C of Bangkok roads.

Would be great if someone designed a helmet designed for the Tropics with 'cycling helmet' inspired ventilation - as I bet heat is one of the main reasons people don't wear a helmet.

I suspect most quality helmets are designed for Europe where heat is less of an issue?

And they also seem to be designed to pass the helmet 'penetration' test rather than for real life situations, and I've seen a few discussion papers (one by a trauma surgeon) suggesting that the thick padding and resulting wide diameter of the helmet creates extra leverage during a glancing blow with the road (a very common result of an accident) and this increasing brain spin injury and neck injury.

For short, low speed city rides I've considered using a good quality cycling helmet as the ventilation is much better than any helmet designed for motorcycles use.

If it get's a bit hot then just open the visor.

There already are helmets like that. I know my Shark Speed-R has these cycling helmet style channels running through the polystyrene and I'm sure other quality brands have them too.

Ok so with a helmet a glancing blow is risk of a possible brain spin/neck injury. Well a glancing blow with no helmet is likely death so I'll be wearing the helmet.

While anything is better than nothing, a cycling helmet won't help much at all at speeds over 30kph. I would think again, if I were you.

[impulse]

Umm wear a helmet end of. A helmet has without a doubt saved my life twice, once at 220 kmh

I sure hope you went to the temple and made a sizable donation after that one. 'Cause the helmet may have helped a little, but something else spared your life at that speed.

[KhruGin]

I sure hope you went to the temple and made a sizable donation after that one. 'Cause the helmet may have helped a little, but something else spared your life at that speed.

Lol, long time ago in England. Umm, not a little but a shed load. The helmet was ground down in three places it was a complete mess. The lucky part I suppose was a wide fairly straight road, no traffic thus didnt collide with a thing, literally got up and walked away with some road rash to legs and arms. A friend had to help find my bike as it dissappeared into a forest, the Z1000 was worse off than me. So yep the helmet and by wearing one without a doubt saved my arse that day ...umm wear a helmet end of. Edited March 1, 2016 by KhruGin

[Familyonthemove]

I always wear a decent helmet when riding my bike - but encasing my head in polystyrene foam and polycarbonate is not ideal in the 40+'C of Bangkok roads.

Would be great if someone designed a helmet designed for the Tropics with 'cycling helmet' inspired ventilation - as I bet heat is one of the main reasons people don't wear a helmet.

I suspect most quality helmets are designed for Europe where heat is less of an issue?

And they also seem to be designed to pass the helmet 'penetration' test rather than for real life situations, and I've seen a few discussion papers (one by a trauma surgeon) suggesting that the thick padding and resulting wide diameter of the helmet creates extra leverage during a glancing blow with the road (a very common result of an accident) and this increasing brain spin injury and neck injury.

For short, low speed city rides I've considered using a good quality cycling helmet as the ventilation is much better than any helmet designed for motorcycles use.

If it get's a bit hot then just open the visor.

There already are helmets like that. I know my Shark Speed-R has these cycling helmet style channels running through the polystyrene and I'm sure other quality brands have them too.

Ok so with a helmet a glancing blow is risk of a possible brain spin/neck injury. Well a glancing blow with no helmet is likely death so I'll be wearing the helmet.

While anything is better than nothing, a cycling helmet won't help much at all at speeds over 30kph. I would think again, if I were you.

Yes the designs are getting better - but still well behind cycling helmets from a cooling angle. I have a decent HJC helmet which has the biggest vents I could find, and I ride visor up with sunglasses ...... still hot. (although with hind-sight buying a black helmet to match my bike was perhaps not my smartest move!)

But the best cycling helmets are actually cooler than not wearing one - as they scoop air into the helmet and over your head.

[Rhys]

Either they start wearing 'Real' helmets (DOT certified) (the cheapest proper helmet brand in the country) or not wear one at all.

The thing is, only motorcycle enthusiasts care to wear a proper helmet, whether they ride a hayabusa or click . Other people on motorcycles are just those who can't afford a car.

There was an American businessman a few years ago who tried to bring in good DOT helmets - he had a contract with Lotus - Tesco, Big C and a few others.

But he got threatened with a "you should take care of your family, and stop upsetting our rice-pot, " so he aborted the effort and went back home with his tail placed firmly between his legs. Good move that.

What most Thais wear for helmets are next to useless..

But again, T.I.T.

Recognize the shop.. in NST

[macknife]

I always wear a decent helmet when riding my bike - but encasing my head in polystyrene foam and polycarbonate is not ideal in the 40+'C of Bangkok roads.

Would be great if someone designed a helmet designed for the Tropics with 'cycling helmet' inspired ventilation - as I bet heat is one of the main reasons people don't wear a helmet.

I suspect most quality helmets are designed for Europe where heat is less of an issue?

And they also seem to be designed to pass the helmet 'penetration' test rather than for real life situations, and I've seen a few discussion papers (one by a trauma surgeon) suggesting that the thick padding and resulting wide diameter of the helmet creates extra leverage during a glancing blow with the road (a very common result of an accident) and this increasing brain spin injury and neck injury.

For short, low speed city rides I've considered using a good quality cycling helmet as the ventilation is much better than any helmet designed for motorcycles use.

If it get's a bit hot then just open the visor.

There already are helmets like that. I know my Shark Speed-R has these cycling helmet style channels running through the polystyrene and I'm sure other quality brands have them too.

Ok so with a helmet a glancing blow is risk of a possible brain spin/neck injury. Well a glancing blow with no helmet is likely death so I'll be wearing the helmet.

While anything is better than nothing, a cycling helmet won't help much at all at speeds over 30kph. I would think again, if I were you.

But the best cycling helmets are actually cooler than not wearing one - as they scoop air into the helmet and over your head.

Again the Shark does this. Many quality hot weather helmets now have this feature. If you remove the lining on the inside you will see the the inner shell is cut exactly like a cycle helmet you might see on the tour de France etc Granted it still has the outer shell,(one must compromise a little for safety) but what you are asking for is around.

[dingerbel]

I was forcibly removed from my bike by a car driver just last week at Muang Thong, without going into many details, the helmet saved my life as I crashed onto and came to a sudden stop at the curb. My Chest, Knee and helmet took the brunt of the collision and if i wasn't wearing that helmet, I would not be writing this now. The impact of the helmet with my head inside, shook my brain and I still have the headache. However, the surgeon that dealt with my knee cap that was split in 3, said without the helmet I would of been dead, without a doubt. The damage to the right side of my Arai helmet is extensive to say the least.

Wear a helmet, wear safety gear, from now on I think I will also wear knee pads!

Be careful and ride safe

[seedy]

Off Topic post removed.

[61guitarman61]

Regardless of quality of the helmets available, what I find most ridiculous is the hypocrisy of the thai culture. And the Thai police. They set up their little money making roadblocks to stop and find people who are not wearing their paper helmets, while at the same time every single student leaving a school, whether they are of legal age to drive or only 12 years old, none of them ever wear a helmet and yet the police are never there to enforce the helmet laws. Part two of that hypocricy / Thai common sense would be infants held in the arms of mothers on the back of motorbikes with 0 protection except for mother's arms. And the mother is not wearing a helmet either.

Edited March 4, 2016 by 61guitarman61

[61guitarman61]

The issue isn't whether the Western guy is driving safely and sensibly or not. It is about the indigenous drivers making that Western guy the victim of their bad driving. And that you cannot prepare for. You never know when you're going to see somebody going the wrong way on a one way road or head on in your lane on a two lane road. That's probably what makes it the most dangerous is that people from the West come to Thailand expecting that they will see the same respect for the rules of the road as they do back home. Bottom line, this is the jungle, baby. And on the roads it's the law of the jungle. The food chain starts with the biggest and goes down to the smallest and slowest. In the West we have exactly the opposite. It starts with the smallest and slowest and giving them the right of way. In the West if a car hits a pedestrian, unless that pedestrian is raging drunk and walking in the middle of the road, that driver is in big trouble. Here it's the pedestrians fault for being in the way, or just being near roadway in the first place. I've ridden the far left shoulder most of the time that I'm driving. And yet I still have pickups and cars that whiz past my right elbow missing me by inches. And the idea of owning your lane, for instance when you are making a right turn where you would be in the far right portion of the right lane waiting to make your turn, that just pisses Thai drivers off. If you watch the thai motorbike drivers, they wait in the far left lane for all traffic behind them to pass them before they get into the right lane to make their right turn. It is expected.

ive tried to get to the reason why they blatantly refuse to wear helmets and it just seems to be down to 'why should i? up to me!' and basically, its 'up to them' and the more you tell them the more they will refuse.

The farang copy the locals, even the old farts..

Quite right. but this farang drives responsibly. I know him.

I am just back from Cambodia, what a shock to see that all drivers drive responsibly.

Motorbike drivers drive 30 to 40 km per hour, rarely pass other drivers. Some cars pass others, but just accelerate a bit while doing so.

No crazy pick-up drivers, no crazy motorbike riders high on Ya Baa.

You do not hear the sound of ambulance sirens at all hours of the day. I never saw an accident on the road in 9 days.

All the packs of cigarettes do not have pictures of cancer and diseased people due to nicotine usage.

And fewer people smoke, a lot fewer.

And strangely, it appears that men can actually drive motorbikes there without smoking.

Seemed to me like all the teen guys have a father at home. Quite a difference from the land of fake smiles.

Edited March 4, 2016 by 61guitarman61

[macknife]

(. . .) In the West if a car hits a pedestrian, unless that pedestrian is raging drunk and walking in the middle of the road, that driver is in big trouble. Here it's the pedestrians fault for being in the way, or just being near roadway in the first place.

I've ridden the far left shoulder most of the time that I'm driving. And yet I still have pickups and cars that whiz past my right elbow missing me by inches.

And the idea of owning your lane, for instance when you are making a right turn where you would be in the far right portion of the right lane waiting to make your turn, that just pisses Thai drivers off. If you watch the thai motorbike drivers, they wait in the far left lane for all traffic behind them to pass them before they get into the right lane to make their right turn. It is expected.

That is simply not true! If a driver/rider hits a pedestrian they will be in big trouble and will be having to pay a lot of money if the pedestrian is seriously injured.

You are a danger to yourself! You need to go with the speed of the traffic or actually a bit faster.

Again that is simply not true! Thai riders do not wait in the left lane to turn right, so it it not expected.

Do you really ride a motorbike in Thailand?

[BSJ]

Don't worry about helmets so much, it's the lack of skills and almost total absence of road craft that leads to many deaths here. If the riders rode sensibly there would be far less accidents.

[Dellboy218]

I always wear a decent helmet when riding my bike - but encasing my head in polystyrene foam and polycarbonate is not ideal in the 40+'C of Bangkok roads.

Would be great if someone designed a helmet designed for the Tropics with 'cycling helmet' inspired ventilation - as I bet heat is one of the main reasons people don't wear a helmet.

I suspect most quality helmets are designed for Europe where heat is less of an issue?

And they also seem to be designed to pass the helmet 'penetration' test rather than for real life situations, and I've seen a few discussion papers (one by a trauma surgeon) suggesting that the thick padding and resulting wide diameter of the helmet creates extra leverage during a glancing blow with the road (a very common result of an accident) and this increasing brain spin injury and neck injury.

For short, low speed city rides I've considered using a good quality cycling helmet as the ventilation is much better than any helmet designed for motorcycles use.

If it get's a bit hot then just open the visor.

There already are helmets like that. I know my Shark Speed-R has these cycling helmet style channels running through the polystyrene and I'm sure other quality brands have them too.

Ok so with a helmet a glancing blow is risk of a possible brain spin/neck injury. Well a glancing blow with no helmet is likely death so I'll be wearing the helmet.

While anything is better than nothing, a cycling helmet won't help much at all at speeds over 30kph. I would think again, if I were you.

Yes the designs are getting better - but still well behind cycling helmets from a cooling angle. I have a decent HJC helmet which has the biggest vents I could find, and I ride visor up with sunglasses ...... still hot. (although with hind-sight buying a black helmet to match my bike was perhaps not my smartest move!)

But the best cycling helmets are actually cooler than not wearing one - as they scoop air into the helmet and over your head.

They do not have the same protection as a full face but I know the ventilation on the Givi is excellent. You can feel the air move through the roof vents. That and the Caberg Breeze, are in the price range of the ''Real'' helmets. There are hot weather helmets out there, just have to look a bit harder.

[Jdiddy]

Umm wear a helmet end of. A helmet has without a doubt saved my life twice, once at 220 kmh and the first thing to hit the ground once id stop doing a superman impression was my head. Shame I havent got a picture of the damage to my very good bell helmet, the helmet was a write off and I wasnt. Umm wear a helmet end of again.

For sure when im doing those speeds im in a $2000 suit of armour but i can understand why people dont want to wear any gear some or all the time

[canthai55]

Never wore a Full Face for more than an hour or two - lack of peripheral vision very disturbing to me. They tell me this has improved since. But am going to try a Modular when I can try on different models. Back in the day - when helmets were made of Fibreglass, split one in half from eyebrows to base of neck. Only thing holding it onto my head was the liner.

[rodknock]

helmets and laws, HA,HA.

what a joke

the great PM of Thailand can not get his soldiers to wear helmets. have yet to see an army person wearing a helmet!!!!!!!!!!!!

half the police do not wear helmets.

so, what good are laws, if the best the police can do is sit in an air conditioned booth all day and push a button for lights.

this is just another dog and pony show which will never have any answer as no one has th b-lls to do any thing about it.

you can talk all you want nothing will ever change!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[papa al]

not a thing is going to be done.,,,,just more natural control sadly..

The Darwin Awards are alive and well..

Natural selection here, yes.

Dawn Awards, no.

[papa al]

Never wore a Full Face for more than an hour or two - lack of peripheral vision very disturbing to me. They tell me this has improved since. But am going to try a Modular when I can try on different models. Back in the day - when helmets were made of Fibreglass, split one in half from eyebrows to base of neck. Only thing holding it onto my head was the liner.

20+ years ago papa was involved with bicycle helmet manufacture.

Turns out that the integrity of the styrene inner is crucial.

Shell, if any, far less so.

Bike helmets often incorporate a reinforcing mesh within the foam & minimal shell.

Oh,

you guys complaining about lack of law compliance & enforcement:

Have you ever driven faster than the legal limit of 90kph?

That can't be safe.

Edited March 6, 2016 by papa al

[Rhys]

not a thing is going to be done.,,,,just more natural control sadly..

The Darwin Awards are alive and well..

Natural selection here, yes.

Dawn Awards, no.

So Papa... the the money.. about 3.5-4k What helmet brand and model do you like that is available in Thai?

[NoshowJones]

I can show you a road near my home which has been resurfaced for about 4 or 5 Ks, not knowing anything about how a road is surfaced, it looks to me like they have not

applied the final surfacing, although they have completed all the road markings.

When riding on this road, I noticed every other rider, like myself, were having to travel very slowly to avoid skidding. Not surprisingly, this road is in the Phichit province, and

I think the reason this road has not been properly finished, is probably because some pockets are being lined.

In a civilized country, you would be able to report this to some authority, but not here in Thailand.

[NoshowJones]

It's not the roadways that are dangerous,

rather the drivers.

I would say it was a bit of both Al.

[NoshowJones]

Umm wear a helmet end of. A helmet has without a doubt saved my life twice, once at 220 kmh and the first thing to hit the ground once id stop doing a superman impression was my head. Shame I havent got a picture of the damage to my very good bell helmet, the helmet was a write off and I wasnt. Umm wear a helmet end of again.

Riding at 220 Kph, I hope you were not on a public road, as you would be endangering the lives of other road users as well as yourself.

[Kwasaki]

220 kph Depends what road the outlook and condition it's only just under 140 mph which some bikes can do in 3rd.

[johnatong]

220 kph Depends what road the outlook and condition it's only just under 140 mph which some bikes can do in 3rd.

NAME please all the countries where riding a bike at 140mph on pubic roads is legal ...................................

[taichiplanet]

your comment makes no sense at all. we have to share the road with 'unprotected' idiots whether we like it or not, we can choose not to share the same bed with them if they are having sex.

If someone doesn't want to wear a helmet but it could've saved their life (or avoided brain damage), that is fine by me, but they (and their family) should except the risk and the responsibilities involved with that decision.

From the perspective of the law if someone dies in an road accident then a non-Thai person can be deported if they are deemed to be at fault. So it is of huge concern, especially if a helmet may have saved that life.

Happy and safe riding to you.

Edited June 3, 2016 by seedy
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