Retirement in Thailand, Some quetions and Thoughts....

[little mary sunshine]

I must admit I have little knowledge about the retirement

System in the UK.

I don't understand why someone 50 y/o wants to retire. At

50 you are at the top earning years of your career. You have

Top seniority in your company and the next 10-12 earning

Years will be the best in your life to save for retirement.

In the States we expect to pay 6% to Soc Sec, the employer

Pays an additional 6%, you have your own private pension

You contribute to: Roth IRA, 401or403K. (you can save an

Additional $20K per year tax deferred each year or more) for

Your retirement years.

With the life expectancy 78-80, if you work until you are 62-65

You have a good 15-25 years to travel, head to the beach, or just

Sit on your ass, which gets to be a little boring, after a while, you have

A great pension, never have to look at a price tag, and visit your

Home country two or three times a year......works for me, retired

7 years now and so glad I worked those additional 12 years!!

I see so many Brits that retire early and live on such a tight

Budget it's sad to have to watch every Baht,when your retired,

You should be able to golf, travel, buy the new car every few

Years, visit friends and get back to your home Country for the

Holidays and special occasions

Edited March 1, 2016 by little mary sunshine

[zaZa9]

I have lived in Phuket comfortably on about 60,000 baht a month for 8 years. This includes a 2000 pound Insurance policy and yearly side trips to SE Asian countries and a Thi gf I mostly pay for.

I retired here at 50 years old.

But I dont own a house , so there is 15k you wouldnt have to spend.

I do agree that prices in LOS are rising , but my costs have dropped over the years and have seriously curtailed since I stopped drinking and started going out just the once a week.

I think its do-able.

[1FinickyOne]

you seem thoughtful enough to hash out your own finances - and so, I will address just one issue.

I live in a small village. It is not likely something I would have chosen for myself but a choice I made for my wife who has a large and wonderful family. She loves it here. I am relatively content anywhere. I am sometimes asked how I can live here by other expats. They have visited their wife's village and after 2-3 days are bored and inconvenienced.

There is a large difference between a visit and living someplace. I wake in my own bed, I make my own coffee and have my daily routine, which is quite pleasant. I go into the nearby city almost daily and am involved with raising family members. My internet access is excellent and i can skype or email friends, watch movies and live sports, and then have my hobbies after that. I can afford to live wherever I might want and yet my life is pleasant in the village and after building a comfortable house, I enjoy being here with family and out of tourist areas more than i would enjoy living in them. I do go up to CM whenever the mood strikes me, to visit friends, go to restaurants etc. I had lived in Bkk but have less and less interest in going there every year.

If you are prone to boredom, and maybe just anyway - a good internet connection is very important - if you do not speak Thai, learning the language and customs will definitely increase your enjoyment of everyday life...

It is nice to have choices in life - good luck and enjoy.

[seancbk]

To the OP.

With 800 to 1000 GBP coming in each month and your house in Korat, you could do it, except how much of the 800-1000 will you need to leave in the UK each month to cover unforeseen expenses relating to your UK property?

800 GBP is about 40,000 THB. I couldn't live on that, but then I live in Bangkok and I'm a young guy who wants to go out to the high end bars and clubs frequently. You living in Korat could probably manage it quite easily.

1000 GBP is about 50,000 THB. That would still not be enough for my lifestyle in Bangkok, but it would make life in Korat in your own paid home quite comfortable I would think.

There is a lot more to living here, but you've been here a lot, you have a Thai wife and a house, so it sounds like you are quite well set.

The only major issue you must be aware of is your income is dependent on exchange rates. I'd worry more about that in the future.

The other thing, which Kenk24 mentioned, is boredom. I could *never* live outside of Bangkok, not being in a city with all the facilities and people to go out with etc would drive me insane.

Best of luck!

[sipi]

The financial and health aspects are only part of the equation. What are you going to do for the next 30 years other than gardening in a remote village with the occasional trip away? I could easily retire now but it would drive me bonkers.

[oxo1066]

Hi good question, as you say you have been traveling to the los for 12 + years so you really know the answer to your questions, you only live once and life is all about taking risks and in the end only you can make that decision.

[little mary sunshine]

It's true "You only live once"; however you want

That "once" to be happy and secure(financially)

Also true you only have"once" to prepare for

That long, happy retirement.

[dick turpin]

To be honest think you are going down the wrong

road in looking at this in terms of retirement at 50,

that's way too early and any move to Thailand should

have a more positive motive... doesn't your wife want

to open a coffee shop or something.

By the way if you stop work at 50 this could impact

your UK pension, think you now have to contribute

for 35 years.

Edited March 1, 2016 by dick turpin

[tancred]

Do'nt forget when your house is empty inUK (no rent) maintainence ASyou age things start to go wrong and the medical bills here are BIG, keep your house in UK

[Mansell]

You have been given good advice either way in answer to your questions. I would ask you this question.....are you a risk taker? Or are you a play it safe kind of person? Whatever your answer is will show you whether to wait five years or go now.

I am originally from England but lived for forty two years in California.......I take risks, but it made sense for me to wait until seventy to retire because then I got the maximum Social Security money for my move to Thailand. I live on the beach in Phuket. So what you wrote about getting up on freezing mornings in England brought back those horrible memories from many years ago. Thinking of five more years of that alone would push me onto the plane ASAP. The idea that we also don't know what next week will bring is another reason to get here fast and living in your own house with your wife next to you when you wake up in the morning.....that is FANTASTIC. Choices...Choices. We are the LUCKY ones in this world who have the wherewithal to be able to make choices. GRATITUDE.

[KNJ]

The old question, lets consider the finances:

Rent

Own accomodation

Initial purchases

Annual costs

Monthly

Deposit

service charge

Car

Medical insurance

Food

monthly

Electricity

Motorbike

Motor Insurance

Petrol

services

Gas

accomodation

Gym/Golf club

Entertainment

water

Furniture

Holidays

Sports

maintenance

AC

House Insurance

pool costs

White goods

Visa fees

Electrical goods

fund for car/bike replacement

Not a complete list and can easily be added to,

.

As to the question of now or in the future?

health, including consideration of family issues.

Inflation, and compounding interest - flip sides of the same equation

Potential for increasing savings/investments

Interests, as others have said what are the hobbies now or intend to take up?

How will you occupy your time?

[little mary sunshine]

KNJ. Excellent post, also cost of living

Increase....will your pension increase year after year

To keep up with inflation. Imagine 15-20

Years from now you will need at least 20%

More to maintain current standard of living

[thaiduncankk]

I cannot understand why people are suggesting work as long as possible.

Wow, so you retire well into your 60's or even 70's, get a mega pension deal and live like royalty.

At this stage in life your health may not be quite what it is now, and you will probably not want to do as much travelling as you could quite easily do now.

Boredom is up to each individual, and I find having any set daily routine boring.

Take each day as it comes.

What am I going to do tomorrow ? I don't know, I'll decide when I get up.

Plenty of things for me to do, but I do them when I want to do them, not because they are part of a routine.

[Rob8891]

We live comfortably on my occupational pension, with some going into savings each month (even with paying rent, truck loan etc). Rental from a property back home is used for holidays, rainy day fund etc. We can't do everything we might want, but who really can? One cuts one's coat according to one's cloth. I suggest that if you have the main things covered, - health insurance and a rainy day fund to cover sudden unforeseen expenses being the two foremost - as others have stated, then don't wait until you are too old to enjoy what you have been working towards all your life.

Good luck, however you choose to play it. I hope you enjoy every minute.

[SpokaneAl]

I would urge caution in your decision process. For many, if not most of us, once we pull the cord and retire there is no going back. You don't want to spend the rest of your years starting every conversation with should of done, should of done.

I also suggest that, if possible, you relook at your life in your home country, especially if you decide to continue working for a few more years. I fear that if you continue to convince yourself how terrible life there is and how great life in Thailand will be, you could be setting yourself up for failure. Usually things are not quite as bad as we imagine, and often do not live up to the expectations we have created in our minds.

Moderation in life and a realistic, unemotional financial analysis including factoring in future years are in order here before you make the leap.

I do wish you the best, whichever direction you choose.

[Rob8891]

....and don't burn your bridges if you do decide to up sticks.Make sure you have a carefully thought-out Plan B, just in case!

[wombat1943]

OP - there is some good and bad advice in this thread. It's up to you to accept or reject it. But no doubt you will understand some of the advice is based on each poster's particular view on life, the universe, and everything.

I won't give you any financial advice. Instead I'll tell you that in the past 24 months, over a dozen of my friends back home have gone to an early grave - most in their very early 50's. All through sudden illnesses. Most went through short periods of palliative care before they died.

Not one of them expressed a wish that they'd spent more time at the office or the factory. Most expressed totally opposite views.

As the old saying goes, life is not a dress rehearsal and it's only a one-act-play. Unlike many, you seem to have your head screwed on and I suspect you will be able to cope with minor financial issues as they arise.

Sometimes a leap of faith is necessary.

Totally agree with the post I have quoted above. My situation a little different from yours, I am 72, and after living alone (divorced) since 1996, met my Thai lady in 2012, married last year (2015), and very happy. But as Gsxrnz says, ". . . . Life .... is only a one act play." And I too have lost friends earlier than anticipated - my best friend - in Australia - died at 70, having been told 6 months earlier at a medical "You're totally fit, should live to your 90's." And others in Thailand - one in his fifties - meningitis - and another age 60 - from a fractured skull, following an "accident" in the bathroom - almost certainly hit on the back of the head with a bottle.

Do what your gut feeling tells you. (Same as "a leap of faith" above.) Happiness is more than money in the bank. Good luck! Please post and tell us your decision and how you get on.

[slipperylobster]

The financial and health aspects are only part of the equation. What are you going to do for the next 30 years other than gardening in a remote village with the occasional trip away? I could easily retire now but it would drive me bonkers.

Some people need to work.

For me, (senior enlisted, military), I had enough of the stress, and the rituals. I wanted freedom, and I got more than I can handle now...lol.

Still dreaming of organizing a major movement involving a thousand or more men, and countless tons of equipment. I am always late for that 5 am muster...and in the wrong uniform (when I dream). Many had it worse...and the nightmares must be horrid.

I wake up, get some coffee, make a nice breakfast, and look out at nice garden and rice field. Not bad at all....Alive and well, and yes...it is 4 am... but I am not late...and I am naked.

[Bernard Flint]

To the OP.

With 800 to 1000 GBP coming in each month and your house in Korat, you could do it, except how much of the 800-1000 will you need to leave in the UK each month to cover unforeseen expenses relating to your UK property?

800 GBP is about 40,000 THB. I couldn't live on that, but then I live in Bangkok and I'm a young guy who wants to go out to the high end bars and clubs frequently. You living in Korat could probably manage it quite easily.

1000 GBP is about 50,000 THB. That would still not be enough for my lifestyle in Bangkok, but it would make life in Korat in your own paid home quite comfortable I would think.

There is a lot more to living here, but you've been here a lot, you have a Thai wife and a house, so it sounds like you are quite well set.

The only major issue you must be aware of is your income is dependent on exchange rates. I'd worry more about that in the future.

The other thing, which Kenk24 mentioned, is boredom. I could *never* live outside of Bangkok, not being in a city with all the facilities and people to go out with etc would drive me insane.

Best of luck!

You forgot to mention that a real estate company charge between 10-15% to look after the rented house, when the OP is living in Thailand, plus there is tax to pay on the income too.

[khunPer]

To OP Scoooooby, It’s all depending of your life-style; some can live for next-to-nothing, almost at same budget level as plain Thais, others expect champagne and strawberries served for breakfast.

I’ve been early retired here for about 10 years now, since I was 56 – only regret is, that I didn’t (couldn’t) do it before. However, it’s not as cheap as some say, or as stated in the books about living in Paradise for pennies. To keep up a reasonable life-style the official suggestion of about 40,000 baht a month for a couple is not way off – you can easily spent more, hardly live an acceptable mixed Western-Thai life for less.

Again, it’s all about preferences and habits. So with your stated 800 to 1,000 £ a month, i.e. 40,000 to 50,000 baht a month, it’s indeed possible.

Your thoughts about waiting another 4-5 years and secure some more savings – well, looked at with common sense, it’s a good idea, but looked from a joy-able perspective, only you can decide. I waited a little longer and had enough savings for a start; I had to wait another 10-year before (small) retirement pension payouts (only beginning now). In my opinion it’s no fun, if you are on such a tight budget that you hardly can move and do what you want or expect in “Paradise”. You also need to feel secure with some cash or funds available in an easy accessible “rainy day” back-up account in Thailand, on top of health insurance and retirement deposit; the latter better to have fixed in bank-deposit, than the hassle of raising every year or showing proof of income. I also think of, that living in Thailand, I need to spend the money in baht, so currency exchange risk also need to be considered – or having some funds in Thailand, enough for at least some month ahead or whatever. I’ve heard stories about Brits moving out here when they got thousands of baths for their Pounds, suddenly realizing that now they got 25 percent or more less, and the daily living costs has gone 25 percent or more up – it’s actually little cheaper now, than a few years ago, but more expensive than 10-years before.

I wish you good luck with your plans.

[Gecko123]

Wait until you're 55.

Use the interim five years to build your finances, language skills, and to refine your retirement lifestyle plan.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Gecko123

[henry15]

Follow the advise from the people who advise you to wait till you get your pension.

I was in the same situation , but my retirement age was even 60. Well I did wait, and don't regret that for even one second. Because its give me the financial space to spend the life I dreamed of.

I life in the northern suburbs of Bangkok. Have my own car. So I make 2 or 3 times a year a tour in the ,North, Isaan or the South, spend some weekends away. Go to eat out regularly in good restaurants.

And no I'm not an houseowner, I live in an 85m² European style appartmlent whit all the amenities possible. I'm becoming 68 now, remarried wit a wonderfull Sino/Thai lady, who is 17 years my junior, after my first, (also Sino/Thai) died after 32 years of marriedge. Well, till now its have been the 8 most beautifull years of my life, So waiting till 60 was worth it.

[fey]

800 pounds a month is more then enough. i spend less that and i'm not on a budget.

[scoooooby]

If your ok living thrifty having to budget your money go ahead and retire now.If you would rather not count your coins with every

Purchase you make then you should wait A few more years.It also depends on how well you like your job.

Like my job?.... a big fat NO.... yet another reason for my head spinning with the early retirement dream...... I guess I know I need to stay till 55 and start drawing my pension to top up the fund....I hear what you guys are saying...if I was single I know I could cope but with the family and running costs of life then 35/40K monthly will be tight and I do not want to spend my chill time in Thai stressing about money.....that's the main reason I am looking for a move there...to get away from the stressful Western life.....(and the UK weather ha ha ha )

[stephenterry]

Wait until you're 55.

Use the interim five years to build your finances, language skills, and to refine your retirement lifestyle plan.

I agree with this in principle, because it addresses the financial weaknesses in burning your bridges, and retiring now. The fact that you can draw down your private pension at that age is your comfort zone. Having myself, two rented properties in the UK it is not without costs that could erode your income. If the tenant defaults it could take months before the insurance kicks in, and/or a new tenant replaces an evicted one. Don't rely on this source of income, if it's in addition to your day job that's a bonus and a savings opportunity.

However, I would add that in the forthcoming 5 years (if you decide it's the most sensible course) make plenty of time for regular visits to Thailand to ensure your relationship remains solid. Absence is a killer in waiting - been there, done it. I don't know if you're able to work less hours for a relatively small drop in income -that could also free up some planning/travelling time, and prepare you for retirement.

Whatever, best of luck.

[mick01827]

Do it as soon as you can, even if you save more money it doesn't mean your going to have your health. Retire but make sure you take up some hobbies that you enjoy and the days will fly by, go to the gym, walking, swimming, meditation, yoga, reading, join some online courses, learn thai and limit the booze.

[timendres]

1000 Pounds per month? Thai wife with no rent payment? I would move here tomorrow!!! As you are not cutting your ties back home, you can always abort. Would I forego those 4 or 5 years and wait before I came over? Not for a MILLION POUNDS! Life is too short!

[RogerW7799]

It is important to look at the bigger picture when considering retirement . . . .

For several decades leading up to 2008, conventional financial wisdom was based on a 7% annual return from a moderately conservative investment strategy. Seen that kind of ROI lately?

Someone put up a history of my condo building on the building's website. During the 1997 Asian crisis, many owners had mortgages on condos that they couldn't pay because their income was reduced. During the fire-sale that ensued, condos were going at bargain-basis prices:

"after the (1997) crisis it was impossible to sell even at prices as low as 8,000 Baht per sq metre. Many of the units had been bought with bank loans and the owners found that they owed twice as much to the bank as their unit was worth. Many owners simply stooped paying on their loans. The owners either abandoned their units or simply left them empty."

We are again in very uncertain times . . . .

Central Banks worldwide are using "tools" that have no historical precedent in a so-far failed attempt to revive the world's economies. Europe has now adopted negative interest rates, because nothing they have tried up to this point has had any positive, lasting effect. Look for more use of financial repression in the future as misguided economic policy attempts to control what can't be controlled. The Central bankers do not have a clue about what's going on, which can be seen from their record of continually misunderstanding the economy. For example, prior to 2008 Greenspan saw no problems on the horizon, and Bernake proclaimed that the housing crisis was "contained", and then we fell in to a mini-depression from which we have yet to recover.

So where are we headed, and what to do?

The global economy has slowed down significantly. There are bubbles in junk-bonds, student debt, car loans, and again forming in housing. Near-zero interest rates have ruined many retirement plans and pension expectations. Debt is out of control worldwide. Normally calm economic commentators are expressing serious concerns about the future. This isn't just normal business cycle fluctuations -- there are serious underlying forces that are getting worse, not better.

Some people say you can't predict the economy, and there's some truth to that. We may not know what day the avalanche is going to occur, but we can see the snow piling up on the mountainside, and we know it's going to happen sooner or later. Right now, the economic snow has built up to record levels, and 2008 was just a taste of what might lie ahead. When the next avalanche comes, everybody is going to get poorer . . . think Greece but on a global scale. And that's the best possible outcome. So my recommendation for those nearing retirement is put away far more savings than you think you will need. Diversify, and do not invest too heavily in anything that depends on another party holding your wealth with a promise pay it back, which includes banks, stocks, bonds, annuities, pensions, governments. You can have some of that in your portfolio, but better to invest in land, buildings and businesses that will hold their value when everyone gets poorer. If you want to prepare for the worse-case scenario, buy a farm in a farming area, and learn how to garden and raise chickens.

[seancbk]

To the OP.

With 800 to 1000 GBP coming in each month and your house in Korat, you could do it, except how much of the 800-1000 will you need to leave in the UK each month to cover unforeseen expenses relating to your UK property?

800 GBP is about 40,000 THB. I couldn't live on that, but then I live in Bangkok and I'm a young guy who wants to go out to the high end bars and clubs frequently. You living in Korat could probably manage it quite easily.

1000 GBP is about 50,000 THB. That would still not be enough for my lifestyle in Bangkok, but it would make life in Korat in your own paid home quite comfortable I would think.

There is a lot more to living here, but you've been here a lot, you have a Thai wife and a house, so it sounds like you are quite well set.

The only major issue you must be aware of is your income is dependent on exchange rates. I'd worry more about that in the future.

The other thing, which Kenk24 mentioned, is boredom. I could *never* live outside of Bangkok, not being in a city with all the facilities and people to go out with etc would drive me insane.

Best of luck!

You forgot to mention that a real estate company charge between 10-15% to look after the rented house, when the OP is living in Thailand, plus there is tax to pay on the income too.

I have no idea what charges the OP might have to deal with, perhaps he rents his home out himself without an agent....

As for Tax, if he rents it out privately maybe he can get away with not declaring that income.

But I don't pretend to know about UK tax.....

[timendres]

It is important to look at the bigger picture when considering retirement . . . .

For several decades leading up to 2008, conventional financial wisdom was based on a 7% annual return from a moderately conservative investment strategy. Seen that kind of ROI lately?

Someone put up a history of my condo building on the building's website. During the 1997 Asian crisis, many owners had mortgages on condos that they couldn't pay because their income was reduced. During the fire-sale that ensued, condos were going at bargain-basis prices:

"after the (1997) crisis it was impossible to sell even at prices as low as 8,000 Baht per sq metre. Many of the units had been bought with bank loans and the owners found that they owed twice as much to the bank as their unit was worth. Many owners simply stooped paying on their loans. The owners either abandoned their units or simply left them empty."

We are again in very uncertain times . . . .

Central Banks worldwide are using "tools" that have no historical precedent in a so-far failed attempt to revive the world's economies. Europe has now adopted negative interest rates, because nothing they have tried up to this point has had any positive, lasting effect. Look for more use of financial repression in the future as misguided economic policy attempts to control what can't be controlled. The Central bankers do not have a clue about what's going on, which can be seen from their record of continually misunderstanding the economy. For example, prior to 2008 Greenspan saw no problems on the horizon, and Bernake proclaimed that the housing crisis was "contained", and then we fell in to a mini-depression from which we have yet to recover.

So where are we headed, and what to do?

The global economy has slowed down significantly. There are bubbles in junk-bonds, student debt, car loans, and again forming in housing. Near-zero interest rates have ruined many retirement plans and pension expectations. Debt is out of control worldwide. Normally calm economic commentators are expressing serious concerns about the future. This isn't just normal business cycle fluctuations -- there are serious underlying forces that are getting worse, not better.

Some people say you can't predict the economy, and there's some truth to that. We may not know what day the avalanche is going to occur, but we can see the snow piling up on the mountainside, and we know it's going to happen sooner or later. Right now, the economic snow has built up to record levels, and 2008 was just a taste of what might lie ahead. When the next avalanche comes, everybody is going to get poorer . . . think Greece but on a global scale. And that's the best possible outcome. So my recommendation for those nearing retirement is put away far more savings than you think you will need. Diversify, and do not invest too heavily in anything that depends on another party holding your wealth with a promise pay it back, which includes banks, stocks, bonds, annuities, pensions, governments. You can have some of that in your portfolio, but better to invest in land, buildings and businesses that will hold their value when everyone gets poorer. If you want to prepare for the worse-case scenario, buy a farm in a farming area, and learn how to garden and raise chickens.

All of these comments are spot on, in my opinion. Unpredictable times ahead for sure.

All the more reason, also in my opinion, to enjoy time here before it might become an impossibility.

Members here often complain about Thais living for today with no concern for their future, which is a perfectly valid observation. But I would counter that Farangs often spend too much time planning the future at the expense of enjoying today.