American Reform rabbis warn of alienation from Israel

[webfact]

American Reform rabbis warn of alienation from Israel
By TIA GOLDENBERG

JERUSALEM (AP) — A recent gathering of American Reform rabbis in Jerusalem was meant to celebrate the small gains the liberal Jewish movement has made in Israel in recent years. But a series of comments by Israeli officials denigrating the group marred the event, reflecting an awkward relationship that many fear is alienating the world's second-largest Jewish community from Israel.

The Reform Movement is the largest stream of Judaism in the United States, claiming to represent 1.5 million people, and its members provide a key source of financial support and political advocacy for Israel.

But the movement is marginal in Israel, where religious affairs are dominated by the Orthodox rabbinical establishment. Israeli lawmakers, both secular and ultra-Orthodox, have repeatedly disparaged the group, questioning their Judaism and accusing them of promoting Jewish assimilation.

"How do you ask Jews around the world to support Israel politically, economically, socially ... and at the same time you have these ministers who say to our people 'you're not really Jewish' or 'you don't have a place here in Israel?' That incongruity is a real problem for us," said Rabbi Steven Fox, the chief executive of the Central Conference of American Rabbis, which held its septennial convention in Israel last week. The group represents 2,000 rabbis.

In the U.S., Reform synagogues are commonplace, characterized by practices such as mixed-gender prayers, services led by female rabbis and members who drive to synagogue on the Sabbath — customs that violate Orthodox norms.

In Israel, Reform Judaism is often seen as a curiosity and in some cases, a threat. This in turn has placed obstacles in the way of the movement's effort to make inroads in Israel, beaten back by an Orthodox monopoly over Jewish rituals such as marriage, burials and conversions.

Reform rabbis have made small gains in Israel, and in January, the movement was jubilant over perhaps its greatest victory — Israel's announcement that it would create a special mixed-gender prayer area at the Western Wall in Jerusalem.

The wall, managed by an ultra-Orthodox rabbi who opposes having Reform customs at the site, is the holiest place where Jews can pray. The new area will also permit women to wear prayer shawls and skullcaps, a rite reserved for men under Orthodox custom.

The announcement came after three years of painstaking negotiations between Israeli officials and the liberal streams of Judaism and appeared to mark a historic turning point in relations between Israel and diaspora Jews.

But right after the plan was approved, Israel's secular Tourism Minister Yariv Levin said the Reform movement was a "waning world." He accused it of tolerating intermarriage, encouraging assimilation and predicted the mixed-prayer area would become unnecessary within two or three generations. Under religious law, Jews cannot marry non-Jews.

Even after Reform rabbis criticized him, Levin expressed no remorse. "It's very important that we'll be aware of the problem of assimilation and do our best efforts in order to solve it," he told The Associated Press.

A chorus of other lawmakers, most of them Orthodox, have publicly lashed out at the Reform movement. As the rabbis' convention was kicking off, a legislator from an ultra-Orthodox party compared the movement to the "mentally ill."

The rhetoric has put Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in a tough spot. Early this month, he rejected "disparaging and divisive remarks" about Reform Jews and called the movement "part and parcel of the Jewish people."

He also met the visiting American rabbis. But, possibly wary of antagonizing religious factions in his coalition, his office made no announcement of the meeting, as it often does with high-profile visitors.

Fox, the rabbi group's chief executive, said the encounter was "more positive" than past meetings with Netanyahu, though they were surprised by the absence of the public announcement.

"The ministers here paint us as if we're not really Jewish. And the ignorance they display makes my congregants ... think 'is Israel really that backward of a nation?' It reflects poorly on the state of Israel," said Rabbi Denise Eger, another leader of the Central Conference of American Rabbis.

Netanyahu's office said he does not put out public statements on all his meetings. It declined to discuss the meeting with the Reform rabbis or say why he had decided to keep silent.

For decades, American Jewry — the second largest Jewish community in the world after Israel — has served as a bedrock of support for Israel. But there are signs of that support eroding, particularly among younger and more liberal Jews.

Jay Ruderman, president of the Ruderman Family Foundation, a Boston-based group that teaches Israeli leaders about the American Jewish community, said that at a time when Israel faces so many challenges, it makes no "strategic sense" for Israeli leaders to alienate American Jews.

"A smart politician would say, 'These Jews are different than us, but they play a very important strategic role,'" he said.

Beyond the Western Wall compromise, the Reform rabbis say they do see progress elsewhere as well.

Israel's Supreme Court ruled last month that the country's ritual baths must accept all converts to Judaism, even those who have undergone non-Orthodox conversions outside the country.

The rabbis also point to the movement's small but growing base in Israel and their invitation to a parliamentary committee during their convention last week, where lawmakers, mainly from centrist parties, showered them with gratitude and praise.

"When I read statements by the Israeli tourism minister about Reform Judaism in the United States, it comes from a denial and a misunderstanding and an ignorance about the importance of the powerful contribution that you make to relations between the two countries," Nachman Shai, a lawmaker from the centrist Zionist Union, told the packed auditorium, where women and men wore rainbow-colored skullcaps and sang Hatikva, Israel's national anthem.

Reform leaders told the meeting that the harsh reactions from some lawmakers were an unfortunate but expected response to the gains the movement has made.

"These are clearly changes that are long overdue," said Rabbi Richard Jacobs, the President of the Union for Reform Judaism. "The change signals to the ultra-Orthodox that there will no longer be a monopoly."

-- (c) Associated Press 2016-03-02

[Galactus]

well, it looks like support for Israel is eroding even among Jews.

But this is normal, many Jewish people are of course clever and aware of what is going on and dont agree with the aggression of Israel and dont want to pay the bill for nonsense politics and for a bloodbath.

and very stupid for Israeli politicians to axe their no 1 supporter base on Earth!

[Somtamnication]

Talk about a country imploding.

[spidermike007]

This may end up being a blessing for Judaism. As far as I am concerned, Israel needs the US support, and the Jewish support in the US, far, far more than the American Jews need Israel. Without the support in the US from the Jews, there is a chance that the massive amount of foreign aid given to Israel will drop. That would be a very positive thing. It would send shock waves throughout the political establishment in Israel, and may allow clowns like Bibi to wean himself from the tit of the ultra orthodox freaks. No form of extremism is healthy for any society. The ultra orthodox, and other super conservative religious elements in Israel are bizarre, otherworldly and not good for society in my opinion. They cannot understand why any Jew would not adopt their completely bizarre lifestyle. They are living on another planet.

[Galactus]

This may end up being a blessing for Judaism. As far as I am concerned, Israel needs the US support, and the Jewish support in the US, far, far more than the American Jews need Israel. Without the support in the US from the Jews, there is a chance that the massive amount of foreign aid given to Israel will drop. That would be a very positive thing. It would send shock waves throughout the political establishment in Israel, and may allow clowns like Bibi to wean himself from the tit of the ultra orthodox freaks. No form of extremism is healthy for any society. The ultra orthodox, and other super conservative religious elements in Israel are bizarre, otherworldly and not good for society in my opinion. They cannot understand why any Jew would not adopt their completely bizarre lifestyle. They are living on another planet.

agree a big deal!

once the aid and arms and technological know how support are cut from Israel, they have nothing but sand there:)

this is i believe the only way for a peace there, keeping Israel powerless and with no resource or support.

of course, hopefully, they dont start to stab Palestinians with knives though or throw them stones if that happens!

and yes, extremism is extremism, judaism, islam, chrstinaity, same.

[Jingthing]

Both sides have good points. Speaking as a totally assimilated atheistic American Jew, predictably the affiliation my family had as a child was reform. We considered it like a Jewish form of Unitarians ... as close to atheist as you can get (secular humanist) without going there. We knew the reform movement wasn't recognized in Israel and we really didn't care either way.

Jewish is both a religion and and also a culture, ethnicity, etc. Both are needed collectively for the Jewish people to continue to have an identity that isn't completely assimilated away.

When I meet more observant Jews who feel sad to hear I have completely lost that, I understand where they are coming from, not to the point of joining them of course because I'm not feeling it, but their concern about American Jews losing their Jewishness is not without a basis in reality.

Of course some of them, in my view a small minority of Jewish fundamentalists, would assert that if you're an ethnic Jew that's not observant then you're no longer a Jew. That I don't respect as I don't respect intolerant religious fundamentalism from any religion.

That's a beauty of the Israeli state. As a state it does indeed recognize secular Jews as Jews but also values more religious Jews as vital to continuing the Jewish identity and culture. There are internal conflicts but they are resolvable. That's more than I can say about the Israel-Palestinian conflict.

The posts above sound very hostile to Israel and to Jews. Also very ignorant in painting the conflicts as simplistic, black and white, when actually there are many complex layers. I've come to expect that from the Israel demonization agenda which at it's core does not support the right of Israel to exist in the first place. Of course that hostile to Israel agenda would celebrate any perceived internal conflict as a weakness when if you look more closely open discussion of problems (without chopping each other's heads off) can often be a strength.

Cheers, and Am Yisrael Chai.

[spidermike007]

Both sides have good points. Speaking as a totally assimilated atheistic American Jew, predictably the affiliation my family had as a child was reform. We considered it like a Jewish form of Unitarians ... as close to atheist as you can get (secular humanist) without going there. We knew the reform movement wasn't recognized in Israel and we really didn't care either way.

Jewish is both a religion and and also a culture, ethnicity, etc. Both are needed collectively for the Jewish people to continue to have an identity that isn't completely assimilated away.

When I meet more observant Jews who feel sad to hear I have completely lost that, I understand where they are coming from, not to the point of joining them of course because I'm not feeling it, but their concern about American Jews losing their Jewishness is not without a basis in reality.

Of course some of them, in my view a small minority of Jewish fundamentalists, would assert that if you're an ethnic Jew that's not observant then you're no longer a Jew. That I don't respect as I don't respect intolerant religious fundamentalism from any religion.

That's a beauty of the Israeli state. As a state it does indeed recognize secular Jews as Jews but also values more religious Jews as vital to continuing the Jewish identity and culture. There are internal conflicts but they are resolvable. That's more than I can say about the Israel-Palestinian conflict.

The posts above sound very hostile to Israel and to Jews. Also very ignorant in painting the conflicts as simplistic, black and white, when actually there are many complex layers. I've come to expect that from the Israel demonization agenda which at it's core does not support the right of Israel to exist in the first place. Of course that hostile to Israel agenda would celebrate any perceived internal conflict as a weakness when if you look more closely open discussion of problems (without chopping each other's heads off) can often be a strength.

Cheers, and Am Yisrael Chai.

This is a deep topic, and one that could be discussed for hours on end. I too like you, am a Jew, who renounced his faith. For me, it happened right after my bar mitzvah. I was a strange young kid, who was looking for meaning in life. None of the rabbis I spoke to could ever give me meaningful answers to my spiritual questions. None. Not a single one knew anything about the spiritual side of the faith. They gave me lame answers like "Judaism is basically a social religion", and crap like that. Over and over again. I told my father as soon as my bar mitzvah is over, I am renouncing the faith. He said fine. If that is what I wanted, fine. So, at 13 years old, I was no longer a practicing Jew.

I still relate to the culture, and have alot of friends, and of course family, that are Jewish. I have alot of affection towards the faith, but little respect for it. At least the way it is practiced by the majority of Jews worldwide. I am not an atheist. I am a believer in a higher power. But, I am certain he does not wear long flowing robes, and I am certain he does not have a long Moses type beard. And I am certain this higher power, which I consider to be more of a benevolent force that guides all of creation, is not sitting in judgment of us, nor does this force condone the use of guilt or shame, as an educational tool, or as a means to achieve social order.

So, as far as I am concerned, the more orthodox of the Jews, practice a faith that is not recognized by this force, or God, as they call it. It may be something that makes them feel good, or feel they are living by a set of honor codes, or the like. But, in my heart of hearts I do not believe that any of the orthodoxy nonsense is recognized by any higher spirit of having ANY value whatsoever. None. Nada. Zip. How could a noble God demand that his people separate themselves from him or her, by wearing a yalmuke? Does that make any sense on any level? And yet, many of those very arrogant Jews sit in condemnation of most of us, and our lifestyles. Nonsense I say. By your condemnation alone you are completely missing the point of your faith!

And if Israel truly values Jews of orthodoxy, more than normal Jews, who are not practicing all of the ritualistic nonsense, then perhaps it is a less legitimate state than the current status it maintains, and perhaps there is a good reason why support for that state is eroding amongst liberal and reform Jews worldwide. I myself am indifferent to Israel, and it's existence means very little to me. I have stated this position to many of my Jewish friends in the past, and some find it very offensive. I end up being called a Jew hater for questioning Israeli policy, and occasionally sympathizing with the Palestinian civilians. I mention that Israel considers itself a democracy, and that dialogue is encouraged, right? Oh well, what is a moderate minded individual to do?

[DeaconJohn]

Both sides have good points. Speaking as a totally assimilated atheistic American Jew, predictably the affiliation my family had as a child was reform. We considered it like a Jewish form of Unitarians ... as close to atheist as you can get (secular humanist) without going there. We knew the reform movement wasn't recognized in Israel and we really didn't care either way.

Jewish is both a religion and and also a culture, ethnicity, etc. Both are needed collectively for the Jewish people to continue to have an identity that isn't completely assimilated away.

When I meet more observant Jews who feel sad to hear I have completely lost that, I understand where they are coming from, not to the point of joining them of course because I'm not feeling it, but their concern about American Jews losing their Jewishness is not without a basis in reality.

Of course some of them, in my view a small minority of Jewish fundamentalists, would assert that if you're an ethnic Jew that's not observant then you're no longer a Jew. That I don't respect as I don't respect intolerant religious fundamentalism from any religion.

That's a beauty of the Israeli state. As a state it does indeed recognize secular Jews as Jews but also values more religious Jews as vital to continuing the Jewish identity and culture. There are internal conflicts but they are resolvable. That's more than I can say about the Israel-Palestinian conflict.

The posts above sound very hostile to Israel and to Jews. Also very ignorant in painting the conflicts as simplistic, black and white, when actually there are many complex layers. I've come to expect that from the Israel demonization agenda which at it's core does not support the right of Israel to exist in the first place. Of course that hostile to Israel agenda would celebrate any perceived internal conflict as a weakness when if you look more closely open discussion of problems (without chopping each other's heads off) can often be a strength.

Cheers, and Am Yisrael Chai.

This is a deep topic, and one that could be discussed for hours on end. I too like you, am a Jew, who renounced his faith. For me, it happened right after my bar mitzvah. I was a strange young kid, who was looking for meaning in life. None of the rabbis I spoke to could ever give me meaningful answers to my spiritual questions. None. Not a single one knew anything about the spiritual side of the faith. They gave me lame answers like "Judaism is basically a social religion", and crap like that. Over and over again. I told my father as soon as my bar mitzvah is over, I am renouncing the faith. He said fine. If that is what I wanted, fine. So, at 13 years old, I was no longer a practicing Jew.

I still relate to the culture, and have alot of friends, and of course family, that are Jewish. I have alot of affection towards the faith, but little respect for it. At least the way it is practiced by the majority of Jews worldwide. I am not an atheist. I am a believer in a higher power. But, I am certain he does not wear long flowing robes, and I am certain he does not have a long Moses type beard. And I am certain this higher power, which I consider to be more of a benevolent force that guides all of creation, is not sitting in judgment of us, nor does this force condone the use of guilt or shame, as an educational tool, or as a means to achieve social order.

So, as far as I am concerned, the more orthodox of the Jews, practice a faith that is not recognized by this force, or God, as they call it. It may be something that makes them feel good, or feel they are living by a set of honor codes, or the like. But, in my heart of hearts I do not believe that any of the orthodoxy nonsense is recognized by any higher spirit of having ANY value whatsoever. None. Nada. Zip. How could a noble God demand that his people separate themselves from him or her, by wearing a yalmuke? Does that make any sense on any level? And yet, many of those very arrogant Jews sit in condemnation of most of us, and our lifestyles. Nonsense I say. By your condemnation alone you are completely missing the point of your faith!

And if Israel truly values Jews of orthodoxy, more than normal Jews, who are not practicing all of the ritualistic nonsense, then perhaps it is a less legitimate state than the current status it maintains, and perhaps there is a good reason why support for that state is eroding amongst liberal and reform Jews worldwide. I myself am indifferent to Israel, and it's existence means very little to me. I have stated this position to many of my Jewish friends in the past, and some find it very offensive. I end up being called a Jew hater for questioning Israeli policy, and occasionally sympathizing with the Palestinian civilians. I mention that Israel considers itself a democracy, and that dialogue is encouraged, right? Oh well, what is a moderate minded individual to do?

Thoughtful and intelligent post.

You and people like you are the future of a secure Israel within their legitimate borders.

The demented Zionist dream of Eretz Israel has to be consigned to oblivion before there can be any chance of peace in the Middle East.

[Jingthing]

Nonsense!
Jews, secular/religious/cultural/whatever that don't care at all if Israel exists or not are completely irrelevant to the future of Israel.

spidermike, you're welcome to your feelings but I'm sure you don't represent many Jews. The vast majority of Jews do care whether Israel exists or not and that includes young American Jews.

That's different than supporting everything that goes on there, of course, that would be mishuga.

[Johpa]

Thoughtful and intelligent post.

You and people like you are the future of a secure Israel within their legitimate borders.

The demented Zionist dream of Eretz Israel has to be consigned to oblivion before there can be any chance of peace in the Middle East.

Alas, the Palestinian dream of the eradication of the State of Israel is equally demented. Both sides are demented. Support either side and you too (that is the editorial "you") are demented and preventing any chance at peace in the region.

I myself advocate for an updated return to the original Allon plan with Israeli withdrawal, including settlements, from the territories (השטחים) and the reversion of the West Bank to the Kingdom of Jordan along with giving Gaza, and Mediterranean access, to Jordan via a dedicated highway through Israeli territory. The whole idea of a viable Palestinian State is ridiculous. But that is just my two cents guaranteed to piss of both sides. And your welcome.

[Jingthing]

Thoughtful and intelligent post.

You and people like you are the future of a secure Israel within their legitimate borders.

The demented Zionist dream of Eretz Israel has to be consigned to oblivion before there can be any chance of peace in the Middle East.

Alas, the Palestinian dream of the eradication of the State of Israel is equally demented. Both sides are demented. Support either side and you too (that is the editorial "you") are demented and preventing any chance at peace in the region.

I myself advocate for an updated return to the original Allon plan with Israeli withdrawal, including settlements, from the territories (השטחים) and the reversion of the West Bank to the Kingdom of Jordan along with giving Gaza, and Mediterranean access, to Jordan via a dedicated highway through Israeli territory. The whole idea of a viable Palestinian State is ridiculous. But that is just my two cents guaranteed to piss of both sides. And your welcome.

In actuality, this thread has nothing to do with Israel-Palestinian conflict. It's about a cultural difference between Reform Judaism (very big among USA Jews) compared to Israel, where it's a minor movement. But as usual with ANY topic touching on anything about Jews and/or Israel, the OBSESSIVE Israel demonization agenda exposes it's ugly head to try to shamelessly promote the lie that Zionism is a dirty word, and is only represented by right wingers.

Dudes, again, the majority of liberal American Jews are pro Zionist as well in the core value sense of supporting the right of Israel to exist and defend itself from enemies. These enemies include the obsessive Israel demonization agenda, racist BDS movement, etc. Support for Israel doesn't mean, OF COURSE, supporting every policy of every right wing Israeli government. That doesn't mean not actively criticizing Israeli policies that people feel are wrong in a normal way. As opposed to obsessive demonization which almost always comes from people who wish Israel never existed in the first place, and wish for the day it that it might stop existing. BIG DIFFERENCE.

As far as the OP, yes I think it's true the younger American Jews feel LESS of an identification with Israel than their elders, but that's not the same thing as feeling NO connection and it's not the same thing as not caring AT ALL if Israel continues to exist or not. It's especially hard for more liberal Jews (the majority in the USA) to balance their support for the existence of Israel with Israeli government policies they often vehemently oppose for very good reasons. I have no easy answers for that one.

[arjunadawn]

Both sides have good points. Speaking as a totally assimilated atheistic American Jew, predictably the affiliation my family had as a child was reform. We considered it like a Jewish form of Unitarians ... as close to atheist as you can get (secular humanist) without going there. We knew the reform movement wasn't recognized in Israel and we really didn't care either way.

Jewish is both a religion and and also a culture, ethnicity, etc. Both are needed collectively for the Jewish people to continue to have an identity that isn't completely assimilated away.

When I meet more observant Jews who feel sad to hear I have completely lost that, I understand where they are coming from, not to the point of joining them of course because I'm not feeling it, but their concern about American Jews losing their Jewishness is not without a basis in reality.

Of course some of them, in my view a small minority of Jewish fundamentalists, would assert that if you're an ethnic Jew that's not observant then you're no longer a Jew. That I don't respect as I don't respect intolerant religious fundamentalism from any religion.

That's a beauty of the Israeli state. As a state it does indeed recognize secular Jews as Jews but also values more religious Jews as vital to continuing the Jewish identity and culture. There are internal conflicts but they are resolvable. That's more than I can say about the Israel-Palestinian conflict.

The posts above sound very hostile to Israel and to Jews. Also very ignorant in painting the conflicts as simplistic, black and white, when actually there are many complex layers. I've come to expect that from the Israel demonization agenda which at it's core does not support the right of Israel to exist in the first place. Of course that hostile to Israel agenda would celebrate any perceived internal conflict as a weakness when if you look more closely open discussion of problems (without chopping each other's heads off) can often be a strength.

Cheers, and Am Yisrael Chai.

This is a deep topic, and one that could be discussed for hours on end. I too like you, am a Jew, who renounced his faith. For me, it happened right after my bar mitzvah. I was a strange young kid, who was looking for meaning in life. None of the rabbis I spoke to could ever give me meaningful answers to my spiritual questions. None. Not a single one knew anything about the spiritual side of the faith. They gave me lame answers like "Judaism is basically a social religion", and crap like that. Over and over again. I told my father as soon as my bar mitzvah is over, I am renouncing the faith. He said fine. If that is what I wanted, fine. So, at 13 years old, I was no longer a practicing Jew.

I still relate to the culture, and have alot of friends, and of course family, that are Jewish. I have alot of affection towards the faith, but little respect for it. At least the way it is practiced by the majority of Jews worldwide. I am not an atheist. I am a believer in a higher power. But, I am certain he does not wear long flowing robes, and I am certain he does not have a long Moses type beard. And I am certain this higher power, which I consider to be more of a benevolent force that guides all of creation, is not sitting in judgment of us, nor does this force condone the use of guilt or shame, as an educational tool, or as a means to achieve social order.

So, as far as I am concerned, the more orthodox of the Jews, practice a faith that is not recognized by this force, or God, as they call it. It may be something that makes them feel good, or feel they are living by a set of honor codes, or the like. But, in my heart of hearts I do not believe that any of the orthodoxy nonsense is recognized by any higher spirit of having ANY value whatsoever. None. Nada. Zip. How could a noble God demand that his people separate themselves from him or her, by wearing a yalmuke? Does that make any sense on any level? And yet, many of those very arrogant Jews sit in condemnation of most of us, and our lifestyles. Nonsense I say. By your condemnation alone you are completely missing the point of your faith!

And if Israel truly values Jews of orthodoxy, more than normal Jews, who are not practicing all of the ritualistic nonsense, then perhaps it is a less legitimate state than the current status it maintains, and perhaps there is a good reason why support for that state is eroding amongst liberal and reform Jews worldwide. I myself am indifferent to Israel, and it's existence means very little to me. I have stated this position to many of my Jewish friends in the past, and some find it very offensive. I end up being called a Jew hater for questioning Israeli policy, and occasionally sympathizing with the Palestinian civilians. I mention that Israel considers itself a democracy, and that dialogue is encouraged, right? Oh well, what is a moderate minded individual to do?

This is a brilliant, intimate, and revealing post. Really! Pretty sure it did not take courage and just came out, but it looks like courage and confidence.

[Steely Dan]

Diaspora Jews are of course entitled to their opinions, whereas Jews in Israel can actually vote on Israeli government policy. Should any diaspora Jews feel strongly enough about Israeli politics they can always use their right of return and make Aliyah.

My own view is that Israeli Jews know what's best for their own security and should not jeopardize that by making decisions based on the desire of some diaspora Jews to avoid any heat due to their identity, especially as the right of return may be needed one day if Western politics shifts even further to the left.

[spidermike007]

Part of this issue has to due the continued US government support to Israel, which is huge. Will it continue, if the support amongst the more reform minded Jewish population within the US continues to wane? Some of us hope it will not continue. I myself, would like to see US support for Israel cut dramatically. They are doing quite well on their own, and do not need our help.

Total American aid to Israel since 1949 exceeds $121 billion (in non-inflation-adjusted dollars).

In 2007, President George Bush and Israel entered into a 10-year Memoradum of Understanding that would give Israel $30 billion in Foreign Military Assitance.

At the completion of this 10-year-plan in 2018, the U.S. will have given Israel $30 billion in unconditional military aid. The United States awards this grant in one lump sum, unlike other foreign recipients, which receive their payments in installments. Israel uses the interest it earns on this amount to pay down its debt to the United States, valued at $455 million in January 2013. In his March 2013 visit to Israel, President Barack Obama pledged to continue multi-year aid packages to Israel through 2028.

Under the terms of the agreement, Israel will be able to spend 26 percent of these U.S. funds on Israeli-manufactured military equipment. (This is known as Off-Shore Procurement.) This agreement, which is unique only to Israel, has allowed Israel to grow to be the world’s 7th largest exporter of military weaponry and equipment.

http://www.ampalestine.org/index.php/key-topics/us-aid-to-israel/626-us-aid-to-israel-2015-fact-sheet

[Morch]

Demographics indicate that if current trends prevail, Orthodox Jews in Israel will increase their prominence as a group. This is bound to have long term. far reaching economic, political and social consequences. The overall implications are not positive - for anyone.

In the USA, the Reformist Jews are more currently more prominent, but similar demographic trends exist. Long term, Orthodox Jews will constitute be the majority of American Jewry. It is less obvious whether they will be as involved in issues pertaining to Israel. But again, either way does not bode well for secular or pluralistic forces within Israel. And by extension, not good news for anyone.

[Jingthing]

I see you refer to a pro BDS American Muslim organization. Including pro academic BDS.

Spidermike, before you made what sounded like an intentionally exaggerated and inflammatory accusation suggesting your fellow Jews were calling you a Jew hater merely for being critical of some Israeli policies and feeling sympathy with Palestinian civilians. Both very reasonable things that I share with you. Sure some Jews would be that stupid and wrong to call you a Jew hater for that, and I would totally condemn such Jews, but also it seems we didn't get the whole truth before.

But let's get real here.

The majority of American Jews correctly see the BDS movement as a racist movement unfairly targeting Israel compared to many other nations doing worse with the bleed on effect of just Jews being targeted just for being Jews all over the world, especially identifiable Jews or Jews having the nerve to expressing support for basic Zionist values such as supporting the right of Israel to exist. Also of course the leadership of BDS has a goal of Israel not existing. Funny, these BDS cult members don't have any movement to end the existence of the over 50 Muslim majority nations, only the one tiny one that happens to be associated Jews. Coincidence? Wanna buy a bridge?

Now I understand much better the reaction of your fellow Jews, now that you've come out and been more honest.

Yes, I know a minority of Jews are active with BDS but a majority of Jews are disgusted with such Jews for joining a racist movement working against their own people. I assume it's usually with good intentions, just naive about what BDS is really all about.

Now, be clear I'm not accusing you personally of being a Jew hater but now I understand the reactions you're getting better, and certainly self hating Jews do exist, now and throughout history.

[Morch]

Diaspora Jews are of course entitled to their opinions, whereas Jews in Israel can actually vote on Israeli government policy. Should any diaspora Jews feel strongly enough about Israeli politics they can always use their right of return and make Aliyah.

My own view is that Israeli Jews know what's best for their own security and should not jeopardize that by making decisions based on the desire of some diaspora Jews to avoid any heat due to their identity, especially as the right of return may be needed one day if Western politics shifts even further to the left.

Citizenship is not a requirement for expressing an opinion, especially with regards to a country people hold cultural, religious and familial ties to.

Blanket statements regarding Israeli Jews knowing better ignores the plurality of political opinions within Israel.

[Jingthing]

Diaspora Jews are of course entitled to their opinions, whereas Jews in Israel can actually vote on Israeli government policy. Should any diaspora Jews feel strongly enough about Israeli politics they can always use their right of return and make Aliyah.

My own view is that Israeli Jews know what's best for their own security and should not jeopardize that by making decisions based on the desire of some diaspora Jews to avoid any heat due to their identity, especially as the right of return may be needed one day if Western politics shifts even further to the left.

Citizenship is not a requirement for expressing an opinion, especially with regards to a country people hold cultural, religious and familial ties to.

Blanket statements regarding Israeli Jews knowing better ignores the plurality of political opinions within Israel.

All very true, but Israelis are there in that rough neighborhood and American Jews are not. So American Jews lecturing Israelis about morality decisions is not likely to be taken very seriously. On the other hand, it wouldn't hurt for the diaspora to be appreciated more. Israel doesn't have all that many friends so it's smart to be nice to your friends.

[Galactus]

Both sides have good points. Speaking as a totally assimilated atheistic American Jew, predictably the affiliation my family had as a child was reform. We considered it like a Jewish form of Unitarians ... as close to atheist as you can get (secular humanist) without going there. We knew the reform movement wasn't recognized in Israel and we really didn't care either way.

Jewish is both a religion and and also a culture, ethnicity, etc. Both are needed collectively for the Jewish people to continue to have an identity that isn't completely assimilated away.

When I meet more observant Jews who feel sad to hear I have completely lost that, I understand where they are coming from, not to the point of joining them of course because I'm not feeling it, but their concern about American Jews losing their Jewishness is not without a basis in reality.

Of course some of them, in my view a small minority of Jewish fundamentalists, would assert that if you're an ethnic Jew that's not observant then you're no longer a Jew. That I don't respect as I don't respect intolerant religious fundamentalism from any religion.

That's a beauty of the Israeli state. As a state it does indeed recognize secular Jews as Jews but also values more religious Jews as vital to continuing the Jewish identity and culture. There are internal conflicts but they are resolvable. That's more than I can say about the Israel-Palestinian conflict.

The posts above sound very hostile to Israel and to Jews. Also very ignorant in painting the conflicts as simplistic, black and white, when actually there are many complex layers. I've come to expect that from the Israel demonization agenda which at it's core does not support the right of Israel to exist in the first place. Of course that hostile to Israel agenda would celebrate any perceived internal conflict as a weakness when if you look more closely open discussion of problems (without chopping each other's heads off) can often be a strength.

Cheers, and Am Yisrael Chai.

This is a deep topic, and one that could be discussed for hours on end. I too like you, am a Jew, who renounced his faith. For me, it happened right after my bar mitzvah. I was a strange young kid, who was looking for meaning in life. None of the rabbis I spoke to could ever give me meaningful answers to my spiritual questions. None. Not a single one knew anything about the spiritual side of the faith. They gave me lame answers like "Judaism is basically a social religion", and crap like that. Over and over again. I told my father as soon as my bar mitzvah is over, I am renouncing the faith. He said fine. If that is what I wanted, fine. So, at 13 years old, I was no longer a practicing Jew.

I still relate to the culture, and have alot of friends, and of course family, that are Jewish. I have alot of affection towards the faith, but little respect for it. At least the way it is practiced by the majority of Jews worldwide. I am not an atheist. I am a believer in a higher power. But, I am certain he does not wear long flowing robes, and I am certain he does not have a long Moses type beard. And I am certain this higher power, which I consider to be more of a benevolent force that guides all of creation, is not sitting in judgment of us, nor does this force condone the use of guilt or shame, as an educational tool, or as a means to achieve social order.

So, as far as I am concerned, the more orthodox of the Jews, practice a faith that is not recognized by this force, or God, as they call it. It may be something that makes them feel good, or feel they are living by a set of honor codes, or the like. But, in my heart of hearts I do not believe that any of the orthodoxy nonsense is recognized by any higher spirit of having ANY value whatsoever. None. Nada. Zip. How could a noble God demand that his people separate themselves from him or her, by wearing a yalmuke? Does that make any sense on any level? And yet, many of those very arrogant Jews sit in condemnation of most of us, and our lifestyles. Nonsense I say. By your condemnation alone you are completely missing the point of your faith!

And if Israel truly values Jews of orthodoxy, more than normal Jews, who are not practicing all of the ritualistic nonsense, then perhaps it is a less legitimate state than the current status it maintains, and perhaps there is a good reason why support for that state is eroding amongst liberal and reform Jews worldwide. I myself am indifferent to Israel, and it's existence means very little to me. I have stated this position to many of my Jewish friends in the past, and some find it very offensive. I end up being called a Jew hater for questioning Israeli policy, and occasionally sympathizing with the Palestinian civilians. I mention that Israel considers itself a democracy, and that dialogue is encouraged, right? Oh well, what is a moderate minded individual to do?

great post! reminded me how i runaway from my ancestors nonsense religion.

i am sure it gives some idea for the prejudiced Zionists!

i have a lot of Jewish originated and Israeli friends like you questioning things and getting criticized by Jewish community.

first, we need to be a human before Judaism, Christianity whatever. and that starts with questioning things than getting trapped and brainwashed inside a mold.

some jewish people (this number increases every year) are thinking beyond religion or their roots bc i think they feel as a human being living in this world before anything.

and you proved it as a live and nice example here, thanks for that.

[Galactus]

Diaspora Jews are of course entitled to their opinions, whereas Jews in Israel can actually vote on Israeli government policy. Should any diaspora Jews feel strongly enough about Israeli politics they can always use their right of return and make Aliyah.

My own view is that Israeli Jews know what's best for their own security and should not jeopardize that by making decisions based on the desire of some diaspora Jews to avoid any heat due to their identity, especially as the right of return may be needed one day if Western politics shifts even further to the left.

Citizenship is not a requirement for expressing an opinion, especially with regards to a country people hold cultural, religious and familial ties to.

Blanket statements regarding Israeli Jews knowing better ignores the plurality of political opinions within Israel.

All very true, but Israelis are there in that rough neighborhood and American Jews are not. So American Jews lecturing Israelis about morality decisions is not likely to be taken very seriously. On the other hand, it wouldn't hurt for the diaspora to be appreciated more. Israel doesn't have all that many friends so it's smart to be nice to your friends.

but it is American jews paying the bill of hundreds of billion dollars (and of course unofficial numbers plus free arms) along with all American tax payers!

[spidermike007]

Diaspora Jews are of course entitled to their opinions, whereas Jews in Israel can actually vote on Israeli government policy. Should any diaspora Jews feel strongly enough about Israeli politics they can always use their right of return and make Aliyah.

My own view is that Israeli Jews know what's best for their own security and should not jeopardize that by making decisions based on the desire of some diaspora Jews to avoid any heat due to their identity, especially as the right of return may be needed one day if Western politics shifts even further to the left.

Citizenship is not a requirement for expressing an opinion, especially with regards to a country people hold cultural, religious and familial ties to.

Blanket statements regarding Israeli Jews knowing better ignores the plurality of political opinions within Israel.

All very true, but Israelis are there in that rough neighborhood and American Jews are not. So American Jews lecturing Israelis about morality decisions is not likely to be taken very seriously. On the other hand, it wouldn't hurt for the diaspora to be appreciated more. Israel doesn't have all that many friends so it's smart to be nice to your friends.

Precisely my argument. Especially when that friend is giving you in excess of 3 billion dollars per year. For what in exchange? It is about Bibi and his cohorts not being able to control the extremist freaks. The orthodoxy in Israel puts the orthodoxy elsewhere to shame. We are talking about strict. Just some examples of how bizarre and extreme this community is.

For various reasons, in Israel, around half of their members do not work, and most of those who do are not officially a part of the workforce. Haredi families are usually much larger than non-Orthodox Jewish families with four, six, or even twelve children.

Haredi Jews are typically opposed to the viewing of television and films, and the reading of secular newspapers and books. There has been a strong campaign against the Internet and internet-enabled mobile phones without filters have also been banned by many leading rabbis. In May 2012, 40,000 Haredim gathered at Citi Field, a baseball park in New York City, to discuss the dangers of unfiltered Internet. The event was organized by the Ichud HaKehillos LeTohar HaMachane. Internet has been allowed for business purposes so long as filters are installed.

This is part of what the Israeli government is up against. How do you reason with people of this ilk?

[cocorico2558]

Part of this issue has to due the continued US government support to Israel, which is huge. Will it continue, if the support amongst the more reform minded Jewish population within the US continues to wane? Some of us hope it will not continue. I myself, would like to see US support for Israel cut dramatically. They are doing quite well on their own, and do not need our help.

Total American aid to Israel since 1949 exceeds $121 billion (in non-inflation-adjusted dollars).

In 2007, President George Bush and Israel entered into a 10-year Memoradum of Understanding that would give Israel $30 billion in Foreign Military Assitance.

At the completion of this 10-year-plan in 2018, the U.S. will have given Israel $30 billion in unconditional military aid. The United States awards this grant in one lump sum, unlike other foreign recipients, which receive their payments in installments. Israel uses the interest it earns on this amount to pay down its debt to the United States, valued at $455 million in January 2013. In his March 2013 visit to Israel, President Barack Obama pledged to continue multi-year aid packages to Israel through 2028.

Under the terms of the agreement, Israel will be able to spend 26 percent of these U.S. funds on Israeli-manufactured military equipment. (This is known as Off-Shore Procurement.) This agreement, which is unique only to Israel, has allowed Israel to grow to be the world’s 7th largest exporter of military weaponry and equipment.

http://www.ampalestine.org/index.php/key-topics/us-aid-to-israel/626-us-aid-to-israel-2015-fact-sheet

Thanks for the background details about one (if not 'the one') of the worst axes of evil in this world.