Honda Wave Front Drum Brake Question

[ricklev]

I have a ten year old Wave with drum brakes.

I just adjusted the front brake and it feels about right in terms of free play of the hand control.

It had been squeaking and had a lot of play. It seemed to adjust OK and it isn't squeaking anymore for some reason, however the stopping power is only adequate.

I ride it so little that I can't remember if it used to be better or that's just the way it is.

My question is will replacing the shoes improve the braking distance or is it an all or nothing thing? If it works it works and if it doesn't it doesn't?

How do you know when the shoes need replacing?

I remember replacing them at least once in the last ten years but no idea when. It only has 12,000 kilometers on it.

I know its so cheap as to be virtually free to have the corner shop do it, but no point really if it won't help.

Thanks!

Edited March 2, 2016 by ricklev

[Don Mega]

I*f it were mine I would put in new shoes and have the drum de-glazed.

[lostinisaan]

Just check the arm at your drum. It shows you when they're worn out.

BTW, a new set is about 50 baht, maybe 70. Replace them, new springs come with the set.

.-

Edited March 2, 2016 by lostinisaan

[ricklev]

Thanks lostinisaan. Google tells me that photo came from this page. http://www.motorcyclepowersportsnews.com/drum-brake-maintenance/

I'm pretty sure none of what they recommend has ever been done to my brakes.

[AllanB]

The drums are so darn cheap the question is irrelevant, just do it and check the drums and mechanisms for surface glaze and free movement.

If you have been riding a bike with front discs it will appear that the drums are poor, since there is no hydraulic advantage. It is just cable operated and will require more force from your hand, the rear being foot operated appears easier because your foot is stronger than your grip.

[kiniyow]

To DeGlaze the drum take sand paper and buff the Shine off then Put new Brakes on..Very cheap fix for your safety

[canthai55]

Drum brakes - no matter how well set up - will never equal the power - or ability to modulate - of a disc brake. You are stuck with limited braking until you upgrade your bike to one with a front disc. No matter what size bike, style of riding, or terrain you ride on. Unless the bike in question is powered like Fred Flinstones car.

[Enoon]

Drum brakes - no matter how well set up - will never equal the power - or ability to modulate - of a disc brake. You are stuck with limited braking until you upgrade your bike to one with a front disc. No matter what size bike, style of riding, or terrain you ride on. Unless the bike in question is powered like Fred Flinstones car.

Makes you wonder how he managed it: "In 1955 he was declared the first rider to lap the Isle of Man TT course at 100 mph, though this was later corrected to 99.97.^[10] As a consequence the official first 100 mph lap is credited to Bob McIntyre, also on a Gilera, in 1957."

Edited March 2, 2016 by Enoon

[bamboozled]

Wow this is just the problem I have and wanted to ask. I have a Honda Dream that has been squeaking in the front forever. And the braking was very poor…though when I bought the bike new it stopped just fine. I have replaced both the front and back pads but that didn't seem to change anything. The squeaking in the front stopped briefly but then came back louder than ever. And the braking is really piss poor. Of course, communication with the mechanic is limited. He did briefly scour the drums with some sand paper but perhaps it was not adequate. I am wondering also if he put cheap quality shoes in which also accounts for the poor braking. Well, I'll try changing mechanics and cough up some more cash to have them looked at/changed. They always want to do the things the quickest and cheapest way, god bless 'em, but sometimes that just doesn't suffice.

[AllanB]

Drum brakes - no matter how well set up - will never equal the power - or ability to modulate - of a disc brake. You are stuck with limited braking until you upgrade your bike to one with a front disc. No matter what size bike, style of riding, or terrain you ride on. Unless the bike in question is powered like Fred Flinstones car.

This is another case for "horses for courses" and the Honda Wave is a low performance bike and in the 5 years we have had our Wave the brakes have never given me a problem at all, so I see no reason for an "upgrade" of a system that works extremely well. Indeed drum brakes are a lot safer in the wet, ABS aside, and as for reliability they are so simple it makes them ideal for their purpose on this bike. Remember the OP's bike is 10 years old and he has this little problem, which is just down to a lack of maintenance (requiring a 2 bob set of shoes), caused by complacency, given that he has a bulletproof bike.

So I think you should get this idea out of your head that Thailand is a TT race circuit, it is a country full of people going about their business, hoping they don't meet up with a boy racer, with more testosterone than sense. Try also to see through the marketing guff they sell you......

On the issue of squeaking/squealing, this is usually down to an extremely minor HF vibration, often cured by something as simple as copper-grease.

My other two bikes have and need disc brakes, the Wave doesn't, so OP, don't listen to these guys, they will be telling you next, you need at least a 650cc engine, then ABS, TRD and whatever they have read about in the brochures they read..

[canthai55]

The only case to be made is which brake is more safe, which will stop the bike in question quicker and more safely. Those who choose to believe that drum brakes are adequate are welcome to their opinion. In an emergency situation you can stop more quickly - and therefore more safely - with a disc brake. Stopping distance is less because the brake is more efficient. Which is why all cars and pickups, and 99% of all motorcycles are equipped with disc brakes. Marketing has nothing to do with it. Here is just one link - there are many more. http://www.youmotorcycle.com/motorcycle-disk-brakes-vs-drum-brakes.html

[Don Mega]

^^^ Hydraulinc drum brakes work as good as discs. They are very poor at dissipating heat though so to do more than one emgercgency stop though and you might be in trouble... this is were discs win out over drums and have become industry standard.

[Richard-BKK]

It’s a big myth that disc brakes provide better stopping power than drum brakes, drum brakes have much bigger surface and can slowdown a vehicle much faster. The only downside is that drum brakes are difficult if not impossible to cool, especially that extra weight is unwanted or pay much more for exotic materials.

The disc brake we now find on most motorcycles are the cheapest solution to brake a vehicle without adding to much weight.

On a low powered 100 to 125cc step-throw motorcycle/scooter it doesn’t really matter if the vehicle has drum or disc brakes. On a cheap budget motorcycle / scooter I would not mind having drum brakes, they easy to service… parts are cheap and no dangerous chemicals.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Richard-BKK

[canthai55]

^^^ Hydraulinc drum brakes work as good as discs. They are very poor at dissipating heat though so to do more than one emgercgency stop though and you might be in trouble... this is were discs win out over drums and have become industry standard.

Oh - so drum brakes do not work as well as disc brakes.

[canthai55]

It’s a big myth that disc brakes provide better stopping power than drum brakes, drum brakes have much bigger surface and can slowdown a vehicle much faster. The only downside is that drum brakes are difficult if not impossible to cool, especially that extra weight is unwanted or pay much more for exotic materials.

The disc brake we now find on most motorcycles are the cheapest solution to brake a vehicle without adding to much weight.

On a low powered 100 to 125cc step-throw motorcycle/scooter it doesn’t really matter if the vehicle has drum or disc brakes. On a cheap budget motorcycle / scooter I would not mind having drum brakes, they easy to service… parts are cheap and no dangerous chemicals.

As above - so drum brakes are not as good as disc brakes.

As to heat dissapation -

Disk brakes require more hardware and higher overall hydraulic pressure to apply. But they cool better, have better overall stopping power and are less susceptible to warping or brake fade with temperature.

link - https://www.quora.com/Why-do-we-use-disc-brakes-in-front-and-drum-brakes-in-rear

Granted this is for cars but applicable none the less.

[AllanB]

Heat dissipation which causes brake fade is only an issue during high speed riding/braking, unless you are foolish enough to ride downhill using only your brakes. Emergency braking at town speeds, well there is no difference between the two types, both in modulation or sheer power.

The other issue with drums versus discs is water dissipation and that can be an advantage in wet conditions, where the drum's braking bite closely matches the road surface grip, reducing the chance of a front wheel lock up. Where locking up a front brake is almost certainly going to result in an off, for the average rider. And knowing your brakes are less efficient in the wet will lead the sensible rider to be more cautious. I tend to use rear braking only in the wet and especially in the mud, or on loose surfaces and you can't get a rear disc for a Wave anyway.

Reliability is a safety issue too, a drum brake needs no hydraulic master or slave cylinders, no degradable/corrosive fluid or perishable seals. A sudden brake failure is more of an issue than a slight lowering of efficiency during certain conditions, which can easily be compensated for in one's riding style.

Now these are all theoretical issues, at the end of the day we are talking about a 110cc, not many bhp, Wave and the big drums work just fine. If you want to ride like a 14 year old phone using ear-hole, there is a front disc option for you. I personally ride very carefully in the wet, avoiding any kind of braking, instead I look ahead for potential hazards before they occur.