World considers a Trump presidency, and many shudder

[NeverSure]

Service industries pffffffft. Those are like the bankers and stockbrokers and accountants who can just churn the wealth that someone else created.

Cheers.

[KarenBravo]

Globalization is irreversible. Adapt, or suffer the consequences.

Going back to the days of manufacturing now that everyone else can manufacture the same thing at a cheaper price is not an option.

[Pinot]

The reason that people have been unable to stop Trump is that they haven't figured out the obvious way to do it.

Compare him to HITLER!

LOL.

Hitler has gotten more traction in death during the last 15 years from the American leftwing than he did in all those years of storming across Europe

15 years of the left wing getting traction from Hitler? Really? Okie dokie

[LawrenceChee]

Haha

[keemapoot]

@Neversure. The computer is not a core competency anymore for the US. Software design, operating sytem design, Chipset design are core competencies, wireless internet technologies and network design are, building and assembly are not. Building and assembly is grunt work. China is now finding that out for themselves, and moving downstream. Huawei already stole the thunder from Cisco, and now they are running. Taiwan already found that out and outsourced to China. Who will China outsource to?

It's called moving up the value chain. There is no reason to play anymore in the lower regions of the chain.

But, I should leave this discussion to the Economists on the forum (if there are any), as I'm just a simple business guy.

Edited March 15, 2016 by keemapoot

[NeverSure]

Globalization is irreversible. Adapt, or suffer the consequences.

Going back to the days of manufacturing now that everyone else can manufacture the same thing at a cheaper price is not an option.

I disagree. The only reason that China can manufacture many things cheaper is due to tax structures. They don't level the field, either. I already mentioned that it isn't cost effective to ship cotton from the S. US to China, make clothing, and then ship it back. The shipping including the handling costs are enormous. Only the tax structure for the corporations makes it cheaper after you add shipping.

Before you have true "globalization" you have to have a level playing field and China and the corporations who deal there have been ripping us off.

You do know that the US has developed processes so that clothing can now be made without human intervention, right?

How can you think we have "globalization" when Thailand exports billions of dollars of manufactured goods to the US duty-free, but then charges a huge duty on anything the US exports to Thailand? China does the same thing.

Because those countries are protectionist, we have to be too. They aren't buying into "globalization" other than when it benefits them.

Cheers.

Edited March 15, 2016 by NeverSure

[boomerangutang]

Trump shouts that he will increase import tariffs 35% on (American company) imports. Am not sure whether that will apply to companies based outside the US. Either way, raising tariffs is a two-way street. Foreign governments can readily raise tariffs on US products, in retaliation. There was a similar trade war of radically raised tariffs right before Wall Street's meltdown of the 1930's. A tariff war will also raise prices for American consumers. No problem, in Trump's view, because he and his buddies are rich enough to buy gold toilets for their private jets.

[boomerangutang]

Globalization is irreversible. Adapt, or suffer the consequences.

Going back to the days of manufacturing now that everyone else can manufacture the same thing at a cheaper price is not an option.

I disagree. The only reason that China can manufacture many things cheaper is due to tax structures.

Perhaps that's part of the equation, but lower wages is the prime reason.

If you had a company making widgets, would you want to pay 50 shop-floor employees $600/week each, or would you prefer to pay each employee $40/week each?

[NeverSure]

Globalization is irreversible. Adapt, or suffer the consequences.

Going back to the days of manufacturing now that everyone else can manufacture the same thing at a cheaper price is not an option.

I disagree. The only reason that China can manufacture many things cheaper is due to tax structures.

Perhaps that's part of the equation, but lower wages is the prime reason.

If you had a company making widgets, would you want to pay 50 shop-floor employees $600/week each, or would you prefer to pay each employee $40/week each?

That wasn't what I said. China is so bad about letting imports in that US auto manufacturers have to actually manufacture cars there to get permission to sell them. In the meantime Walmart fills up the shelf with Chinese stuff that comes in duty (tax) free.

That's where I agree with Trump. Toss a 25 or 30% tariff on anything coming in from a country that charges the same. Taxes.

[NeverSure]

@Neversure. The computer is not a core competency anymore for the US. Software design, operating sytem design, Chipset design are core competencies, wireless internet technologies and network design are, building and assembly are not. Building and assembly is grunt work. China is now finding that out for themselves, and moving downstream. Huawei already stole the thunder from Cisco, and now they are running. Taiwan already found that out and outsourced to China. Who will China outsource to?

It's called moving up the value chain. There is no reason to play anymore in the lower regions of the chain.

But, I should leave this discussion to the Economists on the forum (if there are any), as I'm just a simple business guy.

The computer has been outsourced. China wouldn't have a clue how to build one if the technology hadn't been sent there. It most certainly is a core competency for the US but the US gave it down the river to someone who doesn't play fair with trade.

If other countries want to do that, up to them but all it's doing is making the corporations rich.

I don't think Apple builds much of anything (if anything) in the US. The very expensive IPhone is made in China. Apple cleans up and should be taxed at the border.

The old canard that there are "jobs Americans won't do" needs to be suffixed with "for $2 an hour or $2 per day".

Cheers.

[keemapoot]

^I would love to see the price on your $1000 Chinese-made Iphone 6 if it was made in the US.

Moreover, I would like to see the public outcry when you taxed Americans favorite addiction with a huge additional import duty, that turned that thousand buck toy into a $2,000 item.

Edited March 15, 2016 by keemapoot

[pedro01]

^I would love to see the price on your $1000 Chinese-made Iphone 6 if it was made in the US.

Moreover, I would like to see the public outcry when you taxed Americans favorite addiction with a huge additional import duty, that turned that thousand buck toy into a $2,000 item.

Are you implying that most of the price of an iPhone is production costs and that Apple eek out a tiny profit on each one?

You know they can build cars in the US for about 6-7 times the price on an iPhone, right?

[JDGRUEN]

"Blaaaah...Fox news again? you're in a lather foaming at the mouth like a broken record"

Come on, you've got FOX on right now. Admit it. It's on 24X7 in every wingnut household, thus your low-information voters. Walk into any old age home in America and it will be on in the rec room. Dying people watching a dying political movement.

What makes this election different (and better) than prior elections is that we're watching the Republican party choking to death on its own insanity. It's so beautiful!

Now, tell me the story again about how left wing thugs are causing violence at Donald Trump's rally and don't forget about the part about ISIS. That's my favorite Republican delusional story this week and it's only Tuesday!!!

You have no idea about what FoxNews has become - how it has evolved ... FoxNews is not even considered a Conservative News source anymore... But you wouldn't know that as you are stuck in 2008.

[LawrenceChee]

Trump shouts that he will increase import tariffs 35% on (American company) imports. Am not sure whether that will apply to companies based outside the US. Either way, raising tariffs is a two-way street. Foreign governments can readily raise tariffs on US products, in retaliation. There was a similar trade war of radically raised tariffs right before Wall Street's meltdown of the 1930's. A tariff war will also raise prices for American consumers. No problem, in Trump's view, because he and his buddies are rich enough to buy gold toilets for their private jets.

Exactly....trump is an idiot who likes to trump big ; the reality is most families in USA are hardworking middle class and every price point increase will hurt them

Hence unfortunately his rhetorics seems to appeal to this group as they think the tough man will help even the playing field

He's a businessman who knows profits are made by crunching numbers not really having concern for the average man on the street

He has no empathy for the normal people and will be the worst president if he wins as he has zero connections with his voting base or understand their every day issues

When he slams this tariff and combined with a Chinese president determined to slow growth and close these factories down ....I can see how combination will literally kill the middle class in America with his stupidity

Edited March 15, 2016 by LawrenceChee

[Usernames]

Globalization is irreversible. Adapt, or suffer the consequences.

Going back to the days of manufacturing now that everyone else can manufacture the same thing at a cheaper price is not an option.

I disagree. The only reason that China can manufacture many things cheaper is due to tax structures.

Perhaps that's part of the equation, but lower wages is the prime reason.

If you had a company making widgets, would you want to pay 50 shop-floor employees $600/week each, or would you prefer to pay each employee $40/week each?

That wasn't what I said. China is so bad about letting imports in that US auto manufacturers have to actually manufacture cars there to get permission to sell them. In the meantime Walmart fills up the shelf with Chinese stuff that comes in duty (tax) free.

That's where I agree with Trump. Toss a 25 or 30% tariff on anything coming in from a country that charges the same. Taxes.

Dear World,

There is about to be a new sheriff in town. Deal with it. Trump is coming.

[LawrenceChee]

^I would love to see the price on your $1000 Chinese-made Iphone 6 if it was made in the US.

Moreover, I would like to see the public outcry when you taxed Americans favorite addiction with a huge additional import duty, that turned that thousand buck toy into a $2,000 item.

Are you implying that most of the price of an iPhone is production costs and that Apple eek out a tiny profit on each one?

You know they can build cars in the US for about 6-7 times the price on an iPhone, right?

I think he is right

Bring all the production back into USA and then what you have is actual factories cost , real wages and real taxes and real OSHA audits

The cost will mean it's next to impossible to own an iPhone probably then they will start buying Huawei Hahahahah irony indeed

[keemapoot]

^I would love to see the price on your $1000 Chinese-made Iphone 6 if it was made in the US.

Moreover, I would like to see the public outcry when you taxed Americans favorite addiction with a huge additional import duty, that turned that thousand buck toy into a $2,000 item.

Are you implying that most of the price of an iPhone is production costs and that Apple eek out a tiny profit on each one?

You know they can build cars in the US for about 6-7 times the price on an iPhone, right?

I think he is right

Bring all the production back into USA and then what you have is actual factories cost , real wages and real taxes and real OSHA audits

The cost will mean it's next to impossible to own an iPhone probably then they will start buying Huawei Hahahahah irony indeed

There's also the huge retirement of the IP development costs and R&D, T&D, licensing, trialing, beta testing, and, standards compliance and software development. India does huge amounts of the software development at costs that could never be done in the USA. Period.

**not to mention the short product life spans, and planned end-of-life for models, it's breathtaking. You have to take your profits when you can.

***AND, Donald Trump, the billionaire businessman, knows all these things too, he's just blowing smoke up all your a$$es if you think he doesn't. His stuff is made in China too.

Edited March 15, 2016 by keemapoot

[Chicog]

I disagree. The only reason that China can manufacture many things cheaper is due to tax structures.

I don't suppose the average wage of $44K (US) vs <$10K (China) has anything to do with it at all.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/20/the-average-american-made-446k-last-year.html

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/china/wages

[Grouse]

I'm singing, "The end of the world as we know it..."

I agree Publicus, this too shall pass.

We are watching the bizarre, painful end of the Republican party. The serial liar and corrupt Mussolini wannabee, controls the Republican party. Something of their own making and so so deserved.

It's funny and it's sad. Funny because Trump is a buffoon, sad because some people think he's Presidential material. and could get elected.

Hahahaha if the republicans are finished then you have only one party ? Descending into communism ?

Communism? I don't think so.

Frankly when you consider the span of political thought there is not much to choose between mainstream Republicans and mainstream Democrats

Democrats are a very long way from social democracy and there is no chance of socialism let alone communism

No the only risk is this unfortunate character Trump and his silly acolytes

Edited March 15, 2016 by Grouse

[EyesWideOpen]

Many shudder. Especially the ones that will loose their foreign aid and others that will have import duty raised on their products.

Haha and all the illegal immigrants that will have to move back to

their third world countries.... Would also free up emergency

room in hospitals for American citizens. :-)

China is playing it cool now and staying free of the fray,

but if it looks like Trump would win they will be crapping

in their pants. I for one will not miss the junk products

from China.

Edited March 15, 2016 by EyesWideOpen

[Grouse]

I think it unlikely that you will ever be able to unscramble the global economy eggs

Fact is that it was all to maximise shareholder value, the American holy grail.

That was also why so many great American manufacturing companies became hollowed out through lack of long term investment

Indian coders, Chinese assemblers and Philippina support staff have eaton your lunch and there is nothing you can do about it.

Only beneficiaries are the shareholders.

Bernie is correct on this but you probably consider him a socialist. Ha!

Shipping costs are trivial by the way

No, you can't compete at the blue collar level so don't try. Lenovo is classic example

You think people buy iPhones because of cheap manufacturing costs? Nah, they have a particular combination of coolness and functionality! So quit moaning that there are no welding jobs and find something more saleable.....

BTW, if you are letting in iPhones manufactured in China for no duty, something is well wrong. However, if manufacturing cost is 20 USD and you charge 30% ++, it doesn't make much of a dent in a sales price of 600USD

[Chicog]

Many shudder. Especially the ones that will loose their foreign aid and others that will have import duty raised on their products.

Haha and all the illegal immigrants that will have to move back to

their third world countries.... Would also free up emergency

room in hospitals for American citizens. :-)

China is playing it cool now and staying free of the fray,

but if it looks like Trump would win they will be crapping

in their pants. I for one will not miss the junk products

from China.

So the resulting stellar jump in US inflation wouldn't bother you at all then.

[NeverSure]

^I would love to see the price on your $1000 Chinese-made Iphone 6 if it was made in the US.

Moreover, I would like to see the public outcry when you taxed Americans favorite addiction with a huge additional import duty, that turned that thousand buck toy into a $2,000 item.

Do you think Apple reduced the price of an IPhone when they saved a lot of labor on it in China? NO!! They just increased their profits.

Your idea of a $2,000 IPhone won't fly because of - wait for it - competition. Apple simply couldn't sell them. I get by fine with a $350 Google unlocked smartphone.

It is Apple that is using next to slave labor to make money for itself, not for the consumer. If Apple gets hit with a 25% tariff it will just have to eat it due to - wait for it - competition.

Cheers.

[Linzz]

"Blaaaah...Fox news again? you're in a lather foaming at the mouth like a broken record"

Come on, you've got FOX on right now. Admit it. It's on 24X7 in every wingnut household, thus your low-information voters. Walk into any old age home in America and it will be on in the rec room. Dying people watching a dying political movement.

What makes this election different (and better) than prior elections is that we're watching the Republican party choking to death on its own insanity. It's so beautiful!

Now, tell me the story again about how left wing thugs are causing violence at Donald Trump's rally and don't forget about the part about ISIS. That's my favorite Republican delusional story this week and it's only Tuesday!!!

Haha! You know so much about the content on Fox but never watch it? Since you mention Fox News everyday, it's really you in front of Fox more than any other channel or more than any other TV member isn't it Pinot? Bet you sit there engrossed, spitting hating taking notes slapping your forehead throwing your whiskey at it and having a good ol time. Sure you would miss it if it was gone

[NeverSure]

^I would love to see the price on your $1000 Chinese-made Iphone 6 if it was made in the US.

Moreover, I would like to see the public outcry when you taxed Americans favorite addiction with a huge additional import duty, that turned that thousand buck toy into a $2,000 item.

Are you implying that most of the price of an iPhone is production costs and that Apple eek out a tiny profit on each one?

You know they can build cars in the US for about 6-7 times the price on an iPhone, right?

I think he is right

Bring all the production back into USA and then what you have is actual factories cost , real wages and real taxes and real OSHA audits

The cost will mean it's next to impossible to own an iPhone probably then they will start buying Huawei Hahahahah irony indeed

If people don't have money they can't buy anything. Ohio has lost 400,000 manufacturing jobs in the past 15 years. Their governor is Kasich who is running for POTUS and it wouldn't surprise me if he wins that home state primary. However he voted for NAFTA and supports the TPP. What are his people thinking?

Those rust belt union workers have voted Democrat for as long as I can remember and when they vote Republican they vote for a traitor to their jobs.

Manufacturing is what lifted the US out of WWII. All of those good jobs in factories occurred as the baby boomers were born after people set up households. The US was pumping out anything and everything and good middle class jobs abounded. Those jobs created new wealth by adding value to raw materials.

Now people say it's enough to "advance" past manufacturing but they don't have an answer for the masses that need the factories. They talk about advancing into services or high tech that the average person isn't equipped for.

It doesn't do any good to have cheap goods if you don't have a job.

Cheers.

[Linzz]

Trump shouts that he will increase import tariffs 35% on (American company) imports. Am not sure whether that will apply to companies based outside the US. Either way, raising tariffs is a two-way street. Foreign governments can readily raise tariffs on US products, in retaliation. There was a similar trade war of radically raised tariffs right before Wall Street's meltdown of the 1930's. A tariff war will also raise prices for American consumers. No problem, in Trump's view, because he and his buddies are rich enough to buy gold toilets for their private jets.

Exactly....trump is an idiot who likes to trump big ; the reality is most families in USA are hardworking middle class and every price point increase will hurt them

Hence unfortunately his rhetorics seems to appeal to this group as they think the tough man will help even the playing field

He's a businessman who knows profits are made by crunching numbers not really having concern for the average man on the street

He has no empathy for the normal people and will be the worst president if he wins as he has zero connections with his voting base or understand their every day issues

When he slams this tariff and combined with a Chinese president determined to slow growth and close these factories down ....I can see how combination will literally kill the middle class in America with his stupidity

So you want to stay with the same people who don't know how to crunch numbers but have "empathy for the normal people" and clock up an ever growing debt? $19 Trillion and climbing.and the tax revenue $3 Trillion, which means if you're a citizen you owe $59,000 or as a taxpayer $159,000.

Have a look at this in real time and be afraid. Put it on your desktop and check it everyday

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Edited March 15, 2016 by Linzz

[pedro01]

^I would love to see the price on your $1000 Chinese-made Iphone 6 if it was made in the US.

Moreover, I would like to see the public outcry when you taxed Americans favorite addiction with a huge additional import duty, that turned that thousand buck toy into a $2,000 item.

Are you implying that most of the price of an iPhone is production costs and that Apple eek out a tiny profit on each one?

You know they can build cars in the US for about 6-7 times the price on an iPhone, right?

I think he is right

Bring all the production back into USA and then what you have is actual factories cost , real wages and real taxes and real OSHA audits

The cost will mean it's next to impossible to own an iPhone probably then they will start buying Huawei Hahahahah irony indeed

Then you are both incorrect.

There is less than 1 days labor going into the production of iPhones at Foxconn.

Figure in about $21/hour for a US Factory worker - can you explain why less than a days labor at $21/hour would cause a massive spike in prices?

[Publicus]

Here's a recent tweet from Trump:

"Bernie Sanders is lying when he says his disruptors aren't told to go to my events. Be careful Bernie, or my supporters will go to yours![/size]"

Trump is telling two lies and a threat in one little tweet. What a lovely man.

Trump is not lying, but he is not being completely honest either. Black Lives Matter and other leftist scum are organizing the violence. Bernie Sanders is not in control of his supporters.

The fact his name is Sanders and not Mussolini has a lot to do with the fact.

[lannarebirth]

Here's a recent tweet from Trump:

"Bernie Sanders is lying when he says his disruptors aren't told to go to my events. Be careful Bernie, or my supporters will go to yours![/size]"

Trump is telling two lies and a threat in one little tweet. What a lovely man.

Trump is not lying, but he is not being completely honest either. Black Lives Matter and other leftist scum are organizing the violence. Bernie Sanders is not in control of his supporters.

The fact his name is Sanders and not Mussolini has a lot to do with the fact.

Yes, Bernie isn't pulling anyone's strings but someone is pulling the strings of his supporters to act out against the putative Republican nominee Trump. Media portrayals assign blame between the disruptors and the dispupted. Neither party gains from the exchange so who does? It's some masterful dirty trickery if it works, but not everything's working this year as expected.

[LawrenceChee]

^I would love to see the price on your $1000 Chinese-made Iphone 6 if it was made in the US.

Moreover, I would like to see the public outcry when you taxed Americans favorite addiction with a huge additional import duty, that turned that thousand buck toy into a $2,000 item.

Are you implying that most of the price of an iPhone is production costs and that Apple eek out a tiny profit on each one?

You know they can build cars in the US for about 6-7 times the price on an iPhone, right?

I think he is right

Bring all the production back into USA and then what you have is actual factories cost , real wages and real taxes and real OSHA audits

The cost will mean it's next to impossible to own an iPhone probably then they will start buying Huawei Hahahahah irony indeed

Then you are both incorrect.

There is less than 1 days labor going into the production of iPhones at Foxconn.

Figure in about $21/hour for a US Factory worker - can you explain why less than a days labor at $21/hour would cause a massive spike in prices?

Add in OSHA regulations and audit costs, add in correct and real protective gear, all in your inspections costs , factor in your plant Engineers costs , factor in paying real rent and electricity cost

It's not $21 then and every business has a right to relocate to where the costs are significantly lower but when you see how much profits squeezed out of every set , you know that is just corporate greed no matter how cool the product is and Apple has some of the brightest people in the corporate office understanding laws and devising business strategies to avoid paying taxes and real costs to do just that.