World considers a Trump presidency, and many shudder

[KarenBravo]

To think that US politics has descended to this level..........(sigh).

[NeverSure]

To think that US politics has descended to this level..........(sigh).

It hasn't "descended" to any kind of level. It's the most open and thoroughly vetting process in the world. It contains the most free speech, the most information, the most candidates over the longest period of time I know of.

The entire world can watch every piece of it. There's no concern among the candidates about being sued for defamation. The Press is allowed to say what they want to say.

When it's at the end, let the people decide. Or, maybe you think "someone should control it?" Like China or Russia?

Cheers.

Edited March 15, 2016 by NeverSure

[NeverSure]

OP: "World considers a Trump presidency, and many shudder."

As in, "Who gives a shit about "what the world thinks?" It ain't their country.

Cheers.

[keemapoot]

OP: "World considers a Trump presidency, and many shudder."

As in, "Who gives a shit about "what the world thinks?" It ain't their country.

Cheers.

I do hear this refrain often from you and other conservatives on this forum and everywhere. Normally, and in past days, that would be true. Unless your guy builds walls against Mexico, China, and other places, the U.S. will never return to the blissfully innocent days of isolationism.

Like it or not, we are the sole surviving superpower (though looking in the rear-view mirror at China approaching), and with that status goes global impact of all we do. Hence, it is "their" country too in a way.

[NeverSure]

^^Linzz, it sounds as though you and I share many of the same views, along with a few other posters here. I don't wish to speak for others, but I suspect Lannarebirth may be among them.

It is a difficult line to balance in the American political party system when you share Republicans view of economic issues, and Democrats views of social issues. Normally, we are somehow loosely thrown into the "liberterian" or "independent" category in many people's views, but some of us don't fit comfortably in those either. When I voted for Republicans, it was because of fiscal policy, and I held my nose at many social issues. Vice versa for Democrats.

Party hacks and dogmatic adherents from both parties are plentiful on this forum, and many who say they are not, but their posting history suggests otherwise.

Thanks. The eyes are far too much on personalities because it's easier to have fun that way. To me it's all pretty much a distraction from the real issues. While many have misgivings about Trump and popular uprisings which is fair, and he does not seem to have formed substantial policy, what is good about it is he shaking the political establishment and vested interest tree and they don't like it because it's a challenge to their power. Trump is popular because he is the consummate anti politician so it really doesn't matter what he says. To so many who hate politicians an anti politician is refreshing and certainly holds appeal especially to those who feel they are not represented by politicians. Interesting times.

Trump doesn't have a policy? Have you been listening? He's talking to millions who have lost their jobs to China and Mexico. He's talking to people who are competing for jobs against cheap illegal intruders. He's talking to people who are tired of paying taxes to support illegals.

He's talking to people who haven't had a raise of substance for ten years. He's talking to people who are tired of having to be politically correct and therefore not speak out against these things.

Is The Wall not policy? Is stopping immigration for a time until it can get figured out how to vet people not policy? Tomorrow Trump is running against the Governor of Ohio John Kasich who did this.

Here's policy:

Edited March 15, 2016 by NeverSure

[KarenBravo]

To think that US politics has descended to this level..........(sigh).

It hasn't "descended" to any kind of level. It's the most open and thoroughly vetting process in the world. It contains the most free speech, the most information, the most candidates over the longest period of time I know of.

The entire world can watch every piece of it. There's no concern among the candidates about being sued for defamation. The Press is allowed to say what they want to say.

When it's at the end, let the people decide. Or, maybe you think "someone should control it?" Like China or Russia?

Cheers.

I agree with every word you said..........and there's the pity. To see how all these freedoms are being used. US politics was relatively civilized compared to what we are seeing now.

[NeverSure]

To think that US politics has descended to this level..........(sigh).

It hasn't "descended" to any kind of level. It's the most open and thoroughly vetting process in the world. It contains the most free speech, the most information, the most candidates over the longest period of time I know of.

The entire world can watch every piece of it. There's no concern among the candidates about being sued for defamation. The Press is allowed to say what they want to say.

When it's at the end, let the people decide. Or, maybe you think "someone should control it?" Like China or Russia?

Cheers.

I agree with every word you said..........and there's the pity. To see how all these freedoms are being used. US politics was relatively civilized compared to what we are seeing now.

The alternative is to deny some people the right to run and to control what people say. It is very civilized unless "some people" want to cause disturbances and that's their fault.

Freedoms aren't freedoms if someone can control them. Freedom of speech must allow speech which is objectionable or it isn't free, is it?

[HikeFromLA]

Mr Chee I gather from your name and post you are Chinese and in sympathy with current leadership on the Mainland.

Are they strong nationalists, negotiating good deals on behalf of their people? Yes or no?

Seeing that I have now ticked off my 412th city of travels globally and have done business in all continents except Africa. ...I think that qualifies me as international

To answer you question in context , I don't sympathise with any government , my points on this forum has always been clear.

It's in our Chinese DNA not to trust the government however elected , but being pragmatic yes there are organs of Govt needed to serve the common people...tax , land title deeds , marriage licenses etc

If you ask me have they negotiated good deals for the people , I can say in my opinion they have done their best for 1.3 billion and growing population

I just returned from Beijing ...my CRH rides costs $200 and brought me at 312kmh from Shanghai to Tianjin ...that was amazing and the train stations were filled with common folks traveling to places so they have done a great job in providing infrastructure and progress ...I doubt the Americans can mirror that as I always admire the small pockets of innovation America has but to uniformly apply something in all states it's impossible as everyone likes to talk and not necessarily likes to work

Now China is slowing growth and closing more factories to protect the environment they get another big endorsement from me

Will they ever cure every social problem and work deals best for their people , there is no Govt in the world whether they are communist or democratic that can do that or lay claim to that

Trump is the best example ....he's an idiot and for entertainment since there is no better or moderate candidate like Obama I would love to see him elected as it proved the electoral is dumb and boy it would entertaining to watch an idiot POTUS for 4 years

Love to see him in Tiananmen with his hair whipped off by the spring winds

As I thought, you salute the progress made by the determined nationalists in Beijing.

Tell me then, why is it that you feel that America does not also deserve a determined nationalist leader?

If you read the posts correctly , having a viewpoint and opinion is not what democracy is about right ? Or have the west gone soft on this ?

America deserves the leader voted by its current system ....trump is an idiot in my opinion however entertaining he is

My honest remarks behind the cynical jest is if he is elected , there will be chaos in foreign policies and he is not the leader representative of the Americas I have met so far. Even your powerful ally Brits are fretting he will win as they are unsure how he would flout every single protocol there is ....he will probably insist the queen sit next to him and listen to his ramble which I hope HM would give him a hard knock and tell him to shut up and drink the soup quietly

So Trump is repugnant to Red Chinese and British Royal hegemons alike? Wow. In that case maybe we should tell Trump he is not allowed to run.

Seriously, Lawrence, how do you feel about the period in China when Sun Yat Sen and his Nationalists were establishing a regime free of foreign domination, China for the Chinese? Was that a good thing or no?

And if a good thing, should other nations do likewise -- or no?

[NeverSure]

OP: "World considers a Trump presidency, and many shudder."

As in, "Who gives a shit about "what the world thinks?" It ain't their country.

Cheers.

I do hear this refrain often from you and other conservatives on this forum and everywhere. Normally, and in past days, that would be true. Unless your guy builds walls against Mexico, China, and other places, the U.S. will never return to the blissfully innocent days of isolationism.

Like it or not, we are the sole surviving superpower (though looking in the rear-view mirror at China approaching), and with that status goes global impact of all we do. Hence, it is "their" country too in a way.

First, we aren't looking in the rear view mirror at China. It is collapsing.

Second, we not only have a right but a responsibility to Americans to control immigration. If it takes a wall, so be it.

As for isolationism, we can't keep giving the store to China and Mexico and hope to survive. They don't reciprocate and it's not an even field. There is no excuse for allowing any other country to get rich off the backs of unemployed Americans. They don't play fair. Even Thailand exports a lot to the US duty free, but anything going into Thailand gets hit with a big protective duty.

We are suckers.

Cheers.

[HikeFromLA]

Previous posts have already pointed out the obvious contradiction between supporting simultaneously in one way or another Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders when there is not any substantive connection of content whatsoever between the two. Purely partisan form over content. Two angry guys frankly, each originating from a different place however, going to a radically different destination.

All I see and hear over there is a right wing bandwagon.

To be honest you come across as more than a little bit condescending and dismissive of anyone that disagree ls with you

While I truly believe Bernie is the best candidate it does not mean that I can not prefer Trump as a second choice of Bernie doesn't end up with the Democratic nod

Yes their politics may be very different but on the problems of corporate interference in Politics , the problem of US factory jobs being outsourced to Overseas and the need to take on drug companies to allow for reduction of costs they agree

I feel the above items to be some of the most important

In addition, I do think a Trump election would cause the Republican Party to have a bit of a melt down, which is not a bad thing

Also if Hillary gets the Democratic nomination and looses, I think that would be good for the Democratic Party in the long run as well.

As in all the polls Bernie beats Trump soundly by far more support than Hillary but Hillary controls the DNC and the corporate donors so it is her turn regardless of what is best for the country

So if a Hillary loss forces the DNC to review what they are doing that is also a good thing

Especially if it lets them realize that Bernie or a Bernie like candidate would be better for then Democratic Party in the next election

As I think if Trump is elected, 4 years from no there is a very good chance for a Democrat to be elected....

But I hope it would not not not be Hillary again.

Maybe we need someone like Trump to be elected to make it possible for some one like Bernie to get the Democratic nomination so they can be elected

So please stop dismissing people or labeling them as 'secret closest racist right wing nutjons' just because you don't agree with them

That is offensive

Thank you for your comments and remarks.

Donald Trump is not only offensive.

Trump is a uniquely American fascist. Fortunately and predictably however, Trump and his unprecedented and unique brand of fascism is of a pronounced limited appeal in the United States. Americans haven't ever jumped off the political precipice because the vast and centrist political middle absorbs the fringes of society and politics.

When as in the instance of Trump however, as he is so wild and so radical, the moderate and measured American electorate must instead simply reject the whole of the lunatic fringe outright and decisively.

Trump is exploitative and cynically so. Consequently, nothing he says or stands for is credible or has any merit.

It is the case that as the moderate American body politic and the electorate witness the effect of Bernie Sanders on Hillary Clinton, that is what it will accept and she is whom it shall install in the office of President of the United States. That is how American issues, politics, elections have always gone. The Civil War settled the one great exception and the settlement was accomplished by the good guyz in that one too.

The present irony is that Abe Lincoln was a Republican and Donald Trump who has seized what used to be the Party of Lincoln is not --nor has it been the Party of Lincoln for the past couple of generations of the Lee Atwaters and the Karl Roves et al. The present civil war in the Republican party is being fought with electoral ballots which is how it should be.

This too will pass. it will nonetheless be painful en route to November. However, after that the uniquely new American fascist and his uniquely new and transitory American fascism will be wholly and foreseeably demolished.

Thanks again for the post.

It seems we must agree to disagree

As I do not think Trump would be the end of the world or is anywhere as bad as you do

And even though more than a bit extreme on immigration still more trust worthy than Hillary

Although perhaps Bernie's momentum will continue to grow and the super delegates will come to their senses..

As if the super delegates voted for Bernie instead of Hillary, he'd now be far in the lead in the delegate count

If so, guessing we will then be on the same side

As actual delegates:

Clinton- 766

Bernie- 551

Number of super delegates so

Far= 490

So let me get this straight... Sanders is leading Clinton 2 to 1 in terms of popularly selected delegates?

[Pinot]

You would be wise to drop the name calling and amateur dramatics. It does your cause no favor

What else does he have? Other than baiting and name calling, his posts are devoid of content. What a waste of time. Not one fact in most of his posts.There are several members like this.

Thank Buddha for the several members like this! My posts may be devoid of wingnut content.

Pretty sad to see the same Fox News talking points over and over again rehashed here. The lemmings are given their daily dose of lies and they go out and discuss them. Maybe it's HRC is about to be arrested for her email server or Bernie's people are causing all the violence, the daily bullshit Fox decides to run with. Throw in the usual racist hatred, a pinch of Black Lives matter and you have this hours post by the TV teabaggers.

What a wonderful election. The Republicans are in a lather, foaming at the mouth like mad dogs.

[keemapoot]

OP: "World considers a Trump presidency, and many shudder."

As in, "Who gives a shit about "what the world thinks?" It ain't their country.

Cheers.

I do hear this refrain often from you and other conservatives on this forum and everywhere. Normally, and in past days, that would be true. Unless your guy builds walls against Mexico, China, and other places, the U.S. will never return to the blissfully innocent days of isolationism.

Like it or not, we are the sole surviving superpower (though looking in the rear-view mirror at China approaching), and with that status goes global impact of all we do. Hence, it is "their" country too in a way.

First, we aren't looking in the rear view mirror at China. It is collapsing.

Second, we not only have a right but a responsibility to Americans to control immigration. If it takes a wall, so be it.

As for isolationism, we can't keep giving the store to China and Mexico and hope to survive. They don't reciprocate and it's not an even field. There is no excuse for allowing any other country to get rich off the backs of unemployed Americans. They don't play fair. Even Thailand exports a lot to the US duty free, but anything going into Thailand gets hit with a big protective duty.

We are suckers.

Cheers.

That all sounds well and good...except, what is your and Trump's plan to bring back rusty industry (in an age of technology), and how do you plan to pay those blue collar workers $20/hr., instead of $3.50/hr or less. Do you and others really think Americans will be weaving shirts on looms and rebuilding the rust belt? Yeah, I know, we will retool and retrain. That doesn't cut it against the guy in India or China who is better educated, better motivated and will work for a fraction of the cost, and in a country that still has a steel industry.

[lannarebirth]

To think that US politics has descended to this level..........(sigh).

It hasn't "descended" to any kind of level. It's the most open and thoroughly vetting process in the world. It contains the most free speech, the most information, the most candidates over the longest period of time I know of.

The entire world can watch every piece of it. There's no concern among the candidates about being sued for defamation. The Press is allowed to say what they want to say.

When it's at the end, let the people decide. Or, maybe you think "someone should control it?" Like China or Russia?

Cheers.

I agree with every word you said..........and there's the pity. To see how all these freedoms are being used. US politics was relatively civilized compared to what we are seeing now.

I don't think the candidates are so different than in the past. More globalists and more corporatism to be sure, but what's changed the most is the medium. "The medium is the message". It's a "spectacle" now and that is by design. Literally thousands and thousands of inter-connected media outlets to feed.

[NeverSure]

OP: "World considers a Trump presidency, and many shudder."

As in, "Who gives a shit about "what the world thinks?" It ain't their country.

Cheers.

I do hear this refrain often from you and other conservatives on this forum and everywhere. Normally, and in past days, that would be true. Unless your guy builds walls against Mexico, China, and other places, the U.S. will never return to the blissfully innocent days of isolationism.

Like it or not, we are the sole surviving superpower (though looking in the rear-view mirror at China approaching), and with that status goes global impact of all we do. Hence, it is "their" country too in a way.

First, we aren't looking in the rear view mirror at China. It is collapsing.

Second, we not only have a right but a responsibility to Americans to control immigration. If it takes a wall, so be it.

As for isolationism, we can't keep giving the store to China and Mexico and hope to survive. They don't reciprocate and it's not an even field. There is no excuse for allowing any other country to get rich off the backs of unemployed Americans. They don't play fair. Even Thailand exports a lot to the US duty free, but anything going into Thailand gets hit with a big protective duty.

We are suckers.

Cheers.

That all sounds well and good...except, what is your and Trump's plan to bring back rusty industry (in an age of technology), and how do you plan to pay those blue collar workers $20/hr., instead of $3.50/hr or less. Do you and others really think Americans will be weaving shirts on looms and rebuilding the rust belt? Yeah, I know, we will retool and retrain. That doesn't cut it against the guy in India or China who is better educated, better motivated and will work for a fraction of the cost, and in a country that still has a steel industry.

Oh, such defeatism. You're underestimating America.

Cheers.

[keemapoot]

I do hear this refrain often from you and other conservatives on this forum and everywhere. Normally, and in past days, that would be true. Unless your guy builds walls against Mexico, China, and other places, the U.S. will never return to the blissfully innocent days of isolationism.

Like it or not, we are the sole surviving superpower (though looking in the rear-view mirror at China approaching), and with that status goes global impact of all we do. Hence, it is "their" country too in a way.

First, we aren't looking in the rear view mirror at China. It is collapsing.

Second, we not only have a right but a responsibility to Americans to control immigration. If it takes a wall, so be it.

As for isolationism, we can't keep giving the store to China and Mexico and hope to survive. They don't reciprocate and it's not an even field. There is no excuse for allowing any other country to get rich off the backs of unemployed Americans. They don't play fair. Even Thailand exports a lot to the US duty free, but anything going into Thailand gets hit with a big protective duty.

We are suckers.

Cheers.

That all sounds well and good...except, what is your and Trump's plan to bring back rusty industry (in an age of technology), and how do you plan to pay those blue collar workers $20/hr., instead of $3.50/hr or less. Do you and others really think Americans will be weaving shirts on looms and rebuilding the rust belt? Yeah, I know, we will retool and retrain. That doesn't cut it against the guy in India or China who is better educated, better motivated and will work for a fraction of the cost, and in a country that still has a steel industry.

Oh, such defeatism. You're underestimating America.

Cheers.

No, on the contrary, I am not defeated. I am one of the culprits who "stole those jobs" and took them to China and India. I've built companies in both places and so did every other smart businessman. Those things resulted in a much higher quality of life and the lowest consumer prices that you now enjoy daily. The cost was low-value jobs were lost. They need to be replaced, but not with rhetoric.

And, I don't underestimate America and especially Americans. I just think the jobs focus has been all wrong, and pandering doesn't help. Even China is facing wage inflation, and having huge troubles keeping them on the farm. It calls for adult solutions, not angry soundbites.

[Linzz]

OP: "World considers a Trump presidency, and many shudder."

As in, "Who gives a shit about "what the world thinks?" It ain't their country.

Cheers.

I do hear this refrain often from you and other conservatives on this forum and everywhere. Normally, and in past days, that would be true. Unless your guy builds walls against Mexico, China, and other places, the U.S. will never return to the blissfully innocent days of isolationism.

Like it or not, we are the sole surviving superpower (though looking in the rear-view mirror at China approaching), and with that status goes global impact of all we do. Hence, it is "their" country too in a way.

First, we aren't looking in the rear view mirror at China. It is collapsing.

Second, we not only have a right but a responsibility to Americans to control immigration. If it takes a wall, so be it.

As for isolationism, we can't keep giving the store to China and Mexico and hope to survive. They don't reciprocate and it's not an even field. There is no excuse for allowing any other country to get rich off the backs of unemployed Americans. They don't play fair. Even Thailand exports a lot to the US duty free, but anything going into Thailand gets hit with a big protective duty.

We are suckers.

Cheers.

That all sounds well and good...except, what is your and Trump's plan to bring back rusty industry (in an age of technology), and how do you plan to pay those blue collar workers $20/hr., instead of $3.50/hr or less. Do you and others really think Americans will be weaving shirts on looms and rebuilding the rust belt? Yeah, I know, we will retool and retrain. That doesn't cut it against the guy in India or China who is better educated, better motivated and will work for a fraction of the cost, and in a country that still has a steel industry.

It's a fair point Neversure. While I agree with a lot of what you say, gone are the days when industrial production lines like Ford which supported a decent living for the average American family made America the most prosperous country in the world. Industry has moved to Asia because it's cheaper (like you have probably) and technology has and robots will ensure that full employment can never be the same especially for the unskilled

While I support the anti establishment move in Donald Trump to break up the incestuous powers that be, I am unsure how the Donald will make America strong again. I expect the hub of commercial activity in the future to belong to South East Asia

[NeverSure]

OP: "World considers a Trump presidency, and many shudder."

As in, "Who gives a shit about "what the world thinks?" It ain't their country.

Cheers.

I do hear this refrain often from you and other conservatives on this forum and everywhere. Normally, and in past days, that would be true. Unless your guy builds walls against Mexico, China, and other places, the U.S. will never return to the blissfully innocent days of isolationism.

Like it or not, we are the sole surviving superpower (though looking in the rear-view mirror at China approaching), and with that status goes global impact of all we do. Hence, it is "their" country too in a way.

First, we aren't looking in the rear view mirror at China. It is collapsing.

Second, we not only have a right but a responsibility to Americans to control immigration. If it takes a wall, so be it.

As for isolationism, we can't keep giving the store to China and Mexico and hope to survive. They don't reciprocate and it's not an even field. There is no excuse for allowing any other country to get rich off the backs of unemployed Americans. They don't play fair. Even Thailand exports a lot to the US duty free, but anything going into Thailand gets hit with a big protective duty.

We are suckers.

Cheers.

That all sounds well and good...except, what is your and Trump's plan to bring back rusty industry (in an age of technology), and how do you plan to pay those blue collar workers $20/hr., instead of $3.50/hr or less. Do you and others really think Americans will be weaving shirts on looms and rebuilding the rust belt? Yeah, I know, we will retool and retrain. That doesn't cut it against the guy in India or China who is better educated, better motivated and will work for a fraction of the cost, and in a country that still has a steel industry.

There are 17 different auto manufacturers building cars in America. VW, Mercedes, most Japanese, American... VW has a huge plant in Tennessee.

Chinese steel is well known as crap. The steel industry in the industrial states has nonetheless been ruined. Americans can and do compete.

It doesn't pay to grow cotton in the S. US and ship it to China and then ship the finished clothes back. Same even more for steel. I'd rather see an American running a robot that to see his job gone to people who work as cheap as a robot.

It's not all about the cost of labor. A lot is about the tax laws. Make the companies pay the taxes they are now dodging for anything they import and see what happens.

Cheers.

[keemapoot]

I do hear this refrain often from you and other conservatives on this forum and everywhere. Normally, and in past days, that would be true. Unless your guy builds walls against Mexico, China, and other places, the U.S. will never return to the blissfully innocent days of isolationism.

Like it or not, we are the sole surviving superpower (though looking in the rear-view mirror at China approaching), and with that status goes global impact of all we do. Hence, it is "their" country too in a way.

First, we aren't looking in the rear view mirror at China. It is collapsing.

Second, we not only have a right but a responsibility to Americans to control immigration. If it takes a wall, so be it.

As for isolationism, we can't keep giving the store to China and Mexico and hope to survive. They don't reciprocate and it's not an even field. There is no excuse for allowing any other country to get rich off the backs of unemployed Americans. They don't play fair. Even Thailand exports a lot to the US duty free, but anything going into Thailand gets hit with a big protective duty.

We are suckers.

Cheers.

That all sounds well and good...except, what is your and Trump's plan to bring back rusty industry (in an age of technology), and how do you plan to pay those blue collar workers $20/hr., instead of $3.50/hr or less. Do you and others really think Americans will be weaving shirts on looms and rebuilding the rust belt? Yeah, I know, we will retool and retrain. That doesn't cut it against the guy in India or China who is better educated, better motivated and will work for a fraction of the cost, and in a country that still has a steel industry.

There are 17 different auto manufacturers building cars in America. VW, Mercedes, most Japanese, American... VW has a huge plant in Tennessee.

Chinese steel is well known as crap. The steel industry in the industrial states has nonetheless been ruined. Americans can and do compete.

It doesn't pay to grow cotton in the S. US and ship it to China and then ship the finished clothes back. Same even more for steel. I'd rather see an American running a robot that to see his job gone to people who work as cheap as a robot.

It's not all about the cost of labor. A lot is about the tax laws. Make the companies pay the taxes they are now dodging for anything they import and see what happens.

Cheers.

Make the companies pay taxes! Now you're sounding like a democrat.

[Linzz]

You would be wise to drop the name calling and amateur dramatics. It does your cause no favor

What else does he have? Other than baiting and name calling, his posts are devoid of content. What a waste of time. Not one fact in most of his posts.There are several members like this.

Thank Buddha for the several members like this! My posts may be devoid of wingnut content.

Pretty sad to see the same Fox News talking points over and over again rehashed here. The lemmings are given their daily dose of lies and they go out and discuss them. Maybe it's HRC is about to be arrested for her email server or Bernie's people are causing all the violence, the daily bullshit Fox decides to run with. Throw in the usual racist hatred, a pinch of Black Lives matter and you have this hours post by the TV teabaggers.

What a wonderful election. The Republicans are in a lather, foaming at the mouth like mad dogs.

Blaaaah...Fox news again? you're in a lather foaming at the mouth like a broken record

[lannarebirth]

First, we aren't looking in the rear view mirror at China. It is collapsing.

Second, we not only have a right but a responsibility to Americans to control immigration. If it takes a wall, so be it.

As for isolationism, we can't keep giving the store to China and Mexico and hope to survive. They don't reciprocate and it's not an even field. There is no excuse for allowing any other country to get rich off the backs of unemployed Americans. They don't play fair. Even Thailand exports a lot to the US duty free, but anything going into Thailand gets hit with a big protective duty.

We are suckers.

Cheers.

That all sounds well and good...except, what is your and Trump's plan to bring back rusty industry (in an age of technology), and how do you plan to pay those blue collar workers $20/hr., instead of $3.50/hr or less. Do you and others really think Americans will be weaving shirts on looms and rebuilding the rust belt? Yeah, I know, we will retool and retrain. That doesn't cut it against the guy in India or China who is better educated, better motivated and will work for a fraction of the cost, and in a country that still has a steel industry.

There are 17 different auto manufacturers building cars in America. VW, Mercedes, most Japanese, American... VW has a huge plant in Tennessee.

Chinese steel is well known as crap. The steel industry in the industrial states has nonetheless been ruined. Americans can and do compete.

It doesn't pay to grow cotton in the S. US and ship it to China and then ship the finished clothes back. Same even more for steel. I'd rather see an American running a robot that to see his job gone to people who work as cheap as a robot.

It's not all about the cost of labor. A lot is about the tax laws. Make the companies pay the taxes they are now dodging for anything they import and see what happens.

Cheers.

Make the companies pay taxes! Now you're sounding like a democrat.

At least create a tariff whereby the environmental damage created by shipping to less regulated environments is paid for. No, it's not just wages. There's a whole lot of damage being done globally that is out of sight of the American consumer. Put that cost back in as a tariff and some industry may find it feasible to return.

[keemapoot]

That all sounds well and good...except, what is your and Trump's plan to bring back rusty industry (in an age of technology), and how do you plan to pay those blue collar workers $20/hr., instead of $3.50/hr or less. Do you and others really think Americans will be weaving shirts on looms and rebuilding the rust belt? Yeah, I know, we will retool and retrain. That doesn't cut it against the guy in India or China who is better educated, better motivated and will work for a fraction of the cost, and in a country that still has a steel industry.

There are 17 different auto manufacturers building cars in America. VW, Mercedes, most Japanese, American... VW has a huge plant in Tennessee.

Chinese steel is well known as crap. The steel industry in the industrial states has nonetheless been ruined. Americans can and do compete.

It doesn't pay to grow cotton in the S. US and ship it to China and then ship the finished clothes back. Same even more for steel. I'd rather see an American running a robot that to see his job gone to people who work as cheap as a robot.

It's not all about the cost of labor. A lot is about the tax laws. Make the companies pay the taxes they are now dodging for anything they import and see what happens.

Cheers.

Make the companies pay taxes! Now you're sounding like a democrat.

At least create a tariff whereby the environmental damage created by shipping to less regulated environments is paid for. No, it's not just wages. There's a whole lot of damage being done globally that is out of sight of the American consumer. Put that cost back in as a tariff and some industry may find it feasible to return.

There are for sure some plans that could result in, as you say, some industry returning, and there are specific strategic reasons Mercedes, Honda, etc., have USA plants, but by and large, we will never see a return of legacy industry to the USA. We need to plan for high technology and information careers for workers with long-term training plans supported by government. (and government grants for technical education for this)

Edited March 15, 2016 by keemapoot

[boomerangutang]

Here's a recent tweet from Trump:

"Bernie Sanders is lying when he says his disruptors aren't told to go to my events. Be careful Bernie, or my supporters will go to yours!"

Trump is telling two lies and a threat in one little tweet. What a lovely man.

Actually, he's not. Bernie certainly isn't sending any of his supporters to Trump's events, but it is true that many of the protesters/disrupters at Trump's events are Bernie Supporters. They were manipulated by the Soros funded organization, moveon.org. Not unlike Thaksin's 300 Baht/day army of the people. It remains to see how it will play out; whether it hurts/helps Trump or whether it hurts/helps Bernie. What is clear though is it certainly didn't hurt Clinton, whom is the candidate Soros supports. In the world of dirty politics Soros/Clinton may score a twofer here.

"Bernie certainly isn't sending any of his supporters to Trump's events, but it is true that many of the protesters/disrupters at Trump's events are Bernie Supporters."

Well, let me see. If some Bernie supporters pee while taking a shower, is that proof that Bernie told them to do so?

"They were manipulated by the Soros funded organization, moveon.org."

Jeezo, I didn't know Trump supporters were so quick to glob onto conspiracy theories. Let me guess, you probably also believe in Noah's Ark and that smog-filled cities have nothing to do with humans burning fossil fuels.

[Boon Mee]

Many 'shudder' at the thought of Trump as POTUS do they?

Well, we've been going through a collective (pun intended) 'shudder' for 7 long years now with the current occupier of Big White:

[lannarebirth]

Here's a recent tweet from Trump:

"Bernie Sanders is lying when he says his disruptors aren't told to go to my events. Be careful Bernie, or my supporters will go to yours!"

Trump is telling two lies and a threat in one little tweet. What a lovely man.

Actually, he's not. Bernie certainly isn't sending any of his supporters to Trump's events, but it is true that many of the protesters/disrupters at Trump's events are Bernie Supporters. They were manipulated by the Soros funded organization, moveon.org. Not unlike Thaksin's 300 Baht/day army of the people. It remains to see how it will play out; whether it hurts/helps Trump or whether it hurts/helps Bernie. What is clear though is it certainly didn't hurt Clinton, whom is the candidate Soros supports. In the world of dirty politics Soros/Clinton may score a twofer here.

"Bernie certainly isn't sending any of his supporters to Trump's events, but it is true that many of the protesters/disrupters at Trump's events are Bernie Supporters."

Well, let me see. If some Bernie supporters pee while taking a shower, is that proof that Bernie told them to do so?

"They were manipulated by the Soros funded organization, moveon.org."

Jeezo, I didn't know Trump supporters were so quick to glob onto conspiracy theories. Let me guess, you probably also believe in Noah's Ark and that smog-filled cities have nothing to do with humans burning fossil fuels.

Did you ever talk to someone and it was clear they weren't comprehending a word you said because the whole time you were talking you could see that they were only thinking about what they would say next? Anyhow, don't know what made me think of that.

[NeverSure]

There are 17 different auto manufacturers building cars in America. VW, Mercedes, most Japanese, American... VW has a huge plant in Tennessee.

Chinese steel is well known as crap. The steel industry in the industrial states has nonetheless been ruined. Americans can and do compete.

It doesn't pay to grow cotton in the S. US and ship it to China and then ship the finished clothes back. Same even more for steel. I'd rather see an American running a robot that to see his job gone to people who work as cheap as a robot.

It's not all about the cost of labor. A lot is about the tax laws. Make the companies pay the taxes they are now dodging for anything they import and see what happens.

Cheers.

Make the companies pay taxes! Now you're sounding like a democrat.

At least create a tariff whereby the environmental damage created by shipping to less regulated environments is paid for. No, it's not just wages. There's a whole lot of damage being done globally that is out of sight of the American consumer. Put that cost back in as a tariff and some industry may find it feasible to return.

There are for sure some plans that could result in, as you say, some industry returning, and there are specific strategic reasons Mercedes, Honda, etc., have USA plants, but by and large, we will never see a return of legacy industry to the USA. We need to plan for high technology and information careers for workers with long-term training plans supported by government. (and government grants for technical education for this)

I disagree. There is no excuse for the US to build cars for 17 different world-wide auto companies but not build a single television set. Or computer. Or smartphone.

We invented all of that stuff and then gave the store away. Even Democrats say they despise big corporations but they want that free trade which isn't free because the other side doesn't play fair. They want equality of income but they can't see where their income went. They applaud enriching China and corporations at the expense of American workers but I wonder if they realize just what they are applauding?

A lot of people "get it" and they are going to vote for Trump.

Cheers.

[keemapoot]

At least create a tariff whereby the environmental damage created by shipping to less regulated environments is paid for. No, it's not just wages. There's a whole lot of damage being done globally that is out of sight of the American consumer. Put that cost back in as a tariff and some industry may find it feasible to return.

There are for sure some plans that could result in, as you say, some industry returning, and there are specific strategic reasons Mercedes, Honda, etc., have USA plants, but by and large, we will never see a return of legacy industry to the USA. We need to plan for high technology and information careers for workers with long-term training plans supported by government. (and government grants for technical education for this)

I disagree. There is no excuse for the US to build cars for 17 different world-wide auto companies but not build a single television set. Or computer. Or smartphone.

We invented all of that stuff and then gave the store away. Even Democrats say they despise big corporations but they want that free trade which isn't free because the other side doesn't play fair. They want equality of income but they can't see where their income went. They applaud enriching China and corporations at the expense of American workers but I wonder if they realize just what they are applauding?

A lot of people "get it" and they are going to vote for Trump.

Cheers.

This is the type of thing that Trump is counting on, that people don't understand the realities that countries should focus and excel on their core competencies, and let those other things go. The idea that we should return to the stone age and build TVs & even computers again is fantasy, and unwise.

Of course, this idea of self-sufficiency is very appealing and also runs hand-in-hand with the idea of isolationism. Not so different from the Sufficiency Economy ideas of Thailand.

[Ulysses G.]

You would be wise to drop the name calling and amateur dramatics. It does your cause no favor

What else does he have? Other than baiting and name calling, his posts are devoid of content. What a waste of time. Not one fact in most of his posts.There are several members like this.

Thank Buddha for the several members like this! My posts may be devoid of wingnut content.

The point is that your posts are devoid of ANY worthwhile content and so is theirs. No one even bothers reading them regularly other than other obsessive name callers that are already on your side. What is the point?

There are some intelligent posters on the left - Johpa and Jingthing - and in the middle - lannabirth, keemapoot and geriatrickid. They make other members THINK about their positions. Doing nothing but baiting people does not help your cause.

[Pinot]

"Blaaaah...Fox news again? you're in a lather foaming at the mouth like a broken record"

Come on, you've got FOX on right now. Admit it. It's on 24X7 in every wingnut household, thus your low-information voters. Walk into any old age home in America and it will be on in the rec room. Dying people watching a dying political movement.

What makes this election different (and better) than prior elections is that we're watching the Republican party choking to death on its own insanity. It's so beautiful!

Now, tell me the story again about how left wing thugs are causing violence at Donald Trump's rally and don't forget about the part about ISIS. That's my favorite Republican delusional story this week and it's only Tuesday!!!

Edited March 15, 2016 by Pinot

[Scott]

Stop commenting on other member's posts. If you don't want to read them, then don't.

[NeverSure]

There are for sure some plans that could result in, as you say, some industry returning, and there are specific strategic reasons Mercedes, Honda, etc., have USA plants, but by and large, we will never see a return of legacy industry to the USA. We need to plan for high technology and information careers for workers with long-term training plans supported by government. (and government grants for technical education for this)

I disagree. There is no excuse for the US to build cars for 17 different world-wide auto companies but not build a single television set. Or computer. Or smartphone.

We invented all of that stuff and then gave the store away. Even Democrats say they despise big corporations but they want that free trade which isn't free because the other side doesn't play fair. They want equality of income but they can't see where their income went. They applaud enriching China and corporations at the expense of American workers but I wonder if they realize just what they are applauding?

A lot of people "get it" and they are going to vote for Trump.

Cheers.

This is the type of thing that Trump is counting on, that people don't understand the realities that countries should focus and excel on their core competencies, and let those other things go. The idea that we should return to the stone age and build TVs & even computers again is fantasy, and unwise.

Of course, this idea of self-sufficiency is very appealing and also runs hand-in-hand with the idea of isolationism. Not so different from the Sufficiency Economy ideas of Thailand.

The computer IS a US core competency. So are most of the improvements to it including operating systems. The Chinese are manufacturing what the US invented using manufacturing techniques the US invented.

The US is the greatest manufacturer the world has ever known.

In order for people to have money they have to continually create new wealth. This is what China has done. Turning iron ore into steel creates new wealth. Further turning it into a new car creates even more wealth. Pumping oil from the ground > making plastic out of it > turning that into a TV set creates new wealth at each step. The US became a wealthy nation by manufacturing!!! It is slipping by outsourcing it!!! There is not enough new wealth being created for everyone to get a piece of the pie, not even poor and old people who might gain some help from it.

Don't EVER let anyone tell you that only keeping jobs which don't create new wealth is the way for a country to go.

Cheers.

Edited March 15, 2016 by NeverSure