Hatari Air Purifier (HT-AP12) - fan speed for 24 hour running?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

12 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

I am somewhat confused by these websites show AQI vs PM2.5... I have the AirVisual App and when you look at the daily bar and select PM 2.5 button it shows you the AQI and PM2.5 for any given bar in the light blue band above the bar... it says the AQI is 166 with a PM 2.5 of 84.4 for the bar I selected (see pic)...this is roughly the same time as TallGuys pic showing a PM 2.5/AQI of 169?

 

You can use this website to covert AQI to micrograms or micrograms to AQI.

 

https://www.airnow.gov/index.cfm?action=airnow.calculator

 

Just pick the tab for the starting value you have (AQI or amount), then choose the particular pollutant you want to convert from the dropdown menu, then enter the value number you have, and then click the "calculate" button.

 

84.4 micrograms of PM2.5 converts to an AQI reading of 166, as you said.

 

 

The scientist/experts on this wanted a standardize scale that would be easy and consistent for the public to understand, regardless of the pollutant. So they came up with the standard AQI scale, where a 150+ AQI means unhealthy no matter what particular pollutant is involved.

 

As I understand it, they took the different impact levels for the different pollutants including PM2.5, and keyed those various impact levels for each pollutant to the standardized values on the AQI scale.

 

Then in practice, as I understand it, in any particular location, it's the highest individual pollutant AQI reading for that day and location that determines its overall AQI reporting value for the day. And in Thailand, it's almost always PM2.5 that is the biggest problem/highest AQI reading.

 

Edited March 16, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[HaleySabai]

I was wondering if we would pass the Red-threshold this season.... we have.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Hmmm... different levels in this reading. Note that it's showing a peak PM2.5 reading for the area of 185 during the past 48 hours:

 

 

 

http://aqicn.org/city/chiang-mai/

[mat999]

On this you can use the Plasma function or Ionizer. Which is best?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I lately bought a Sharp HEPA Plasmacluster air purifier unit (FP-F30TA) for about 3,200b that's due for delivery on Tuesday.

 

I bought it because it had a good price and supposedly has a good "True" HEPA filter. It also has Sharp's Plasmacluster technology, that supposedly kills/inactivates various pollutants with an ionizing feature that supposedly creates only a very tiny, non-harmful amount of ozone.

 

But I was still a bit nervous about that, and was assuaged only by the knowledge that the Sharp unit has a switch that allows me to turn off the Plasmacluster technology, if in the end I decide I don't want it. I've been reading and checking in the meanwhile to try to find any neutral scientific verification of the safety of Plasmacluster, apart from Sharp's own marketing and various repetitions of that. But thus far, haven't found much.

 

However, in looking, I did manage to come across a non-paywall blocked assessment of air purifiers done by Consumer Reports magazine back in mid-2017, and it listed one Sharp Plasmacluster unit and two Honeywell units among five air purifier units recommended by CR. The publicly available (non-member) review doesn't address Plasmacluster technology specifically, but I'm assuming CR would not have listed the Sharp Plasmacluster unit among the top recommended units if there was doubt about its safety.

 

So, here's the CR report on air purifiers:

 

https://www.consumerreports.org/air-purifiers/dont-spend-money-on-an-air-purifier-you-might-not-need/

 

 

 

PS - I also happen to have a Honeywell 50250 at home that I brought with me from the U.S.  I like to think of it as the "tank" of air purifiers, a big loud powerful, energy sucking unit that uses a legit "True HEPA" filter, but for me, is more suited for daytime use in the living room and such, vs. nighttime use in a smaller bedroom where quiet operation is more of a priority. But I was still glad to see it listed on CR's recommended list.

 

Edited March 18, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

One more piece on the Sharp Plasmacluster technology that now makes me feel more at ease.

 

A few years back, the state of California in the U.S. passed a regulation to restrict air purifier type units sold in the state to only those that produce no more than 0.05 ppm of ozone, which is considered a non-hazardous level. Sharp claims their Plasmacluster units produce only 0.01 ppm of ozone, which they maintain is safe and non-harmful. The law/regulation was in response to a glut of ozone emitting purifiers that were pushed to the market a few years back, a type now considered harmful.

 

So at any rate, the CA Air Resources Board, in response to that regulation, maintains a list of air purifier models that have been certified to be in compliance with the CA regulation against harmful ozone. And in reviewing that list, quite a few Sharp Plasmacluster models are listed as approved, including the FP-F50U-W and F60U-W models, which are similar U.S. versions to the Thai FP-F30TA that I bought.

 

Of course, the Sharp models sold in the U.S. are going to be different model numbers from those sold in Thailand. But the fact that the CA Air Resources Board has certified U.S. Sharp models with the Plasmacluster technology, to me, is a good and reassuring indicator.

 

 

https://www.arb.ca.gov/research/indoor/aircleaners/certified.htm

 

BTW, they also maintain a list of ozone generating air purifiers (mostly brand names that I've never heard of) that ARE considered harmful. And there are NO Sharp models on that list.

 

https://www.arb.ca.gov/research/indoor/o3g-list.htm

 

 

[sfokevin]

The Sharp is a great little unit!... I have the older version of the Sharp Plasmcluster (FUA28EB)... it has the same filter and ozone option... In my bedroom (25sm) it can bring down the PM 2.5 down to single digit (lowest reading of 3 via my Xaiomi meter) when fan set on high... I leave the ozone on all the time too... This unit is 3 years old and I have retired it to the diningroom as I am now testing a bunch of new Xaiomi units ;-)... 

 

I would like like to replace the filter on the Sparp unit... The Sharp site says there is a store that carries the replacement filter across from the train station... Has anyone gotten filters there?

Edited March 19, 2018 by sfokevin

[THAIJAMES]

48 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

 I am now testing a bunch of new Xaiomi units ;-)... 

Would appreciate if you could give feedback on the units, what kind of readings are you getting this time of the year and what is the size of your room, number of windows doors, etc..

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, sfokevin said:

I would like like to replace the filter on the Sparp unit... The Sharp site says there is a store that carries the replacement filter across from the train station... Has anyone gotten filters there?

 

If you get any info on a Sharp replacement filters source there, please do post it here.

 

BTW, why are you testing a "bunch" of Xiaomi purifier units?  And which model did you get.

 

The regular Xiaomi 2 seems to get a bad rap for its inaccurate built-in sensor and for an auto mode that doesn't work very well. But the subsequent models, 2S and one other, supposedly got a new laser type PM2.5 sensor that's supposed to be much more accurate.

 

One other issue about the overall Xiaomi design that I don't like, is their use of a single, combined filter unit, instead of separate filters for carbon, HEPA etc. By using a single combined filter unit, it's probably going to need to be replaced more often than the separate filters, where the cheap carbon is replaced more often and thus the more expensive HEPA filter tends to last longer.

 

On the other hand, I will say a good thing for Xiaomi, and that is -- it seems very easy to find replacement filters here for their air purifiers, both via Thai online sites like Lazada and also from Chinese online retailers.  Unlike Sharp and Toshiba, where finding OEM replacement filters is a PAIN!

 

 

Edited March 19, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[sfokevin]

I will make a point in the next few days to go to the place across from the train station and see what they have...

 

I bought three of the Xaiomis... a 2S and two 2...  the 2s for the main lounge and the other 2 for the bedroom and library... the sensors seem to all act the same and I have thier stand alone PM 2.5 sensor to compare them in a room side by side...  the 2s gets my main lounge down to the low teens (it’s about 50sm and has 5 sliding doors that are not really weather sealed and the outside PM ~100) and I only have it set to about 70% speed (max speed is like a jet engine)... The bedroom goes to almost 0...

 

As to the bad raps... That seems to come from the SmartAir website you sited before... Yes I agree that the auto mode is not really useful... It’s algorithm was designed for the China/India area where pollution standards and levels are much different then we have... I don’t use it... you can custom set the favorite level to whatever you like (I set it to 70% in the lounge and 50% in the bedroom - any higher than 70% and it starts to sound like a jet engine)... these setting will stay on 24/7 without reverting to auto mode.... I might point out that the website that give the bad rap is a .com that is trying to sell you is own air purifier - so take that into account and read the comments that people have left on thier site that show you how to set the units up 

 

Other things I like are I can see the pm level in all rooms and I have a pm meter outside too... the units also tell me the room temperature on my cellphone so I can see all these even if I’m away from the house... I have added The Xaiomi IR remote which lets me turn on and control the AC in my lounge remotely with the App... So I can turn on the AC while driving home ;-)... I also have a couple of their security cams that are also conrolled by the App 

Edited March 19, 2018 by sfokevin

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Very techie!!!

 

I will say, the more first-hand user experience we have with these things -- how they are to use, how well they actually reduce PM2.5, how loud, how easy to find replacement filters -- the better off it's going to be for everyone who's interested in the topic.

 

It's one thing to read the reviews online and try to check the specs and such. It's another thing to have first-hand experience and posts here, which are invaluable.

 

My Sharp unit is scheduled to arrive tomorrow. But the separate PM2.5 sensor I ordered from Aliexpress is probably a week or two behind that.  And the Sharp units don't have any built-in PM2.5 readout, so I won't really be able to judge that level of performance until my sensor arrives.

 

 

Edited March 19, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[sfokevin]

Btw... I have two Xaiomi PM 2.5 meters and really only need one now that I have the air purifiers with the meter built in... If anyone would like to buy one like new unit with box I will sell for 2,000 baht....

 

Pm me if interested..

 

Edited March 19, 2018 by sfokevin

[edwardandtubs]

The only thing I don't like about these Xiaomis is that they're being sold here for double the Chinese retail price.

[sfokevin]

Lazada sells the Xaiomi 2S which includes the digital PM 2.5 meter for less that 7,000 baht... Which is on the cheap side of the brands available here... and in no way twice what is charged in China...

 

Edited March 19, 2018 by sfokevin

[edwardandtubs]

5 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

Btw... I have two Xaiomi PM 2.5 meters and really only need one now that I have the air purifiers with the meter built in... If anyone would like to buy one like new unit with box I will sell for 2,000 baht....

 

Pm me if interested..

 

Be realistic, man. You can get them new for less than that on AliExpress:

 

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32843223620.html?trace=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail&productId=32843223620&productSubject=32843223620&shortkey=3UR7RrU3&addresstype=600

[edwardandtubs]

3 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

Lazada sells the Xaiomi 2S which includes the digital PM 2.5 meter for less that 7,000 baht... Which is on the cheap side of the brands available here... and in no way twice what is charged in China...

 

899 yuan (4500 baht) in China so still a 50 percent markup. The cheapest I can see it for on Lazada is 7290 baht.

[sfokevin]

7 minutes ago, edwardandtubs said:

Be realistic, man. You can get them new for less than that on AliExpress:

 

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32843223620.html?trace=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail&productId=32843223620&productSubject=32843223620&shortkey=3UR7RrU3&addresstype=600

Save yourself a few hundred baht and order it... As TallGuy has said waiting a week or two for delivery... I’ll drop it off anywhere in the city tomorrow... ;-)

[sfokevin]

1 hour ago, edwardandtubs said:

899 yuan (4500 baht) in China so still a 50 percent markup. The cheapest I can see it for on Lazada is 7290 baht.

Thai price 6,777 vs 4,500 baht... Chok the difference up to shipping, sales tax and the price we pay for living here in paradise...

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I ordered my PM2.5 sensor from Aliexpress with their free shipping option on the 12th, and got a shipping begun notice a day later. Since then, the tracking info via Sing Post shows nothing. But the estimated delivery time was 2-3 weeks, and I'm only at one week right now. So probably have some more time yet to run... But as this was my first Aliexpress order, I have no experience with how useful or not their tracking info tends to be.

Edited March 19, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[edwardandtubs]

I've ordered from AliExpress loads of times and 3 weeks is the norm. Sometimes a bit more, sometimes a bit less. It usually takes a few days before you can see the tracking.

Edited March 19, 2018 by edwardandtubs

[edwardandtubs]

2 hours ago, sfokevin said:

Thai price 6,777 vs 4,500 baht... Chok the difference up to shipping, sales tax and the price we pay for living here in paradise...

Where can you get it for 6777 baht. And I'm not sure you need air purifiers in 'paradise.'

[sfokevin]

2 hours ago, edwardandtubs said:

Where can you get it for 6777 baht. And I'm not sure you need air purifiers in 'paradise.'

Lazada has them... But the cheaper priced ones sell out... But if you watch out they come back in stock... And you can also watch out for discount % vouchers that can reduce the price by up to 10%...

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Kevin, have you done any comparisons of the readings from the built-in PM2.5 monitor on your regular X2 (not the 2S) vs the readings from your handheld Xiaomi sensor?

 

[sfokevin]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Kevin, have you done any comparisons of the readings from the built-in PM2.5 monitor on your regular X2 (not the 2S) vs the readings from your handheld Xiaomi sensor?

 

They vary only by a few ppm 3-4... but I think that is only because of the location of the stand alone unit vs the sensor on the back of the filter... The one in the bedroom goes from 40-50 to low single digits after a half hour of being on about 50% speed... I wouldn't see it as a major difference in the scheme of things...

 

One nice thing the stand alone unit has is that it keeps and shows a history of reading on the App...

Edited March 19, 2018 by sfokevin

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 3/19/2018 at 3:50 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I ordered my PM2.5 sensor from Aliexpress with their free shipping option on the 12th, and got a shipping begun notice a day later. Since then, the tracking info via Sing Post shows nothing. But the estimated delivery time was 2-3 weeks, and I'm only at one week right now. So probably have some more time yet to run... But as this was my first Aliexpress order, I have no experience with how useful or not their tracking info tends to be.

 

Checked again today and my order status was finally updated as of yesterday, the 19th, indicating the shipment had been dispatched overseas by Singapore Post. So it took them a full week from order to get to that point. Now just wait and see how long the rest of the trip will take.

Edited March 20, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Got my new Sharp air purifier today via delivery. Took about 5 minutes to set up. Manual from Sharp came in a dual TH-EN version, so easy to follow. This unit is intended for an 16-21 sq. mt. room. Price was about 3200b all in.

 

   

 

 

The unit's control panel does have an ON and OFF button for its Plasmacluster function. There's also an ON / OFF button for its separate ion shower function, which according to the manual runs for one hour once launched before shutting off. There's a 3 position menu for fan speed, starting at medium, then high, then sleep function for low speed at night.

 

 

According to the specs below, this unit on HIGH fan speed uses 51 watts of power. In comparison, my much larger Honeywell 50250 air purifier uses 100 watts on low and 200 watts medium.

 

 

A couple of things that became clear once I received the unit vs. just reading the specs and seeing the photos online:

 

--The online info talked about the unit having a pre-filter, which I had a hard time seeing in any of the photos. As it turns out, the unit does have a prefilter built-in to the rear panel. The removable rear panel's plastic grid structure has a clear fiber mesh covering its entire area on the interior side. So yes, it will filter the bigger pollutants, and can be vacuumed clean as needed, thus helping extend the life of the HEPA filter.

 

--One of the things I read about in checking comments on the unit was the suggestion to add a regular carbon pre-filter inside the back of the unit between the HEPA filter and the rear cover-filter mesh. I did that with some carbon filter I had at home, and it works just fine. There's sufficient space between the HEPA filter and rear cover to allow a carbon fabric filter to be inserted just fine. Again, helps with any odor reduction and also helps preserve the HEPA filter.

 

         

 

The HEPA filter that comes with the unit doesn't have any SHARP logo on it. But it does have text on one side indicating which side should be facing inward toward the unit. And on the outside facing direction of the HEPA filter, there's a small cloth pull tab at the top of the filter to help with removal, although the fit isn't really so tight to make using it necessary. But it's a nice visual reminder of which side of the HEPA filter should be facing outward toward the rear cover. (HEPA filters ARE directional, they're not designed to have either side facing in or out.)

 

 

In terms of noise level, I'd say on medium fan speed this unit is a little bit noisier than my split level air con unit in my bedroom. But, in comparison, vastly quieter on medium than the much bigger Honeywell 50250 unit even when it's on low fan speed. On medium, the Sharp unit really isn't much more than hushed background noise.

 

 

Still waiting arrival of my PM2.5 sensor. Will post results on that and this air purifier once I have it in hand.

 

Edited March 21, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[hobz]

Anyone wanna rent out their PM2.5 sensor for a day or two? :D I'm in Chiang mai and I can leave you a deposit for security if your paranoid :D 

Or you wanna come over to my house with your PM2.5 detector and i'll buy you lunch or something? :)

 

I'm waiting for my gruenluft air purifier now.. It should arrive early next week.. (Mars 24-28) and can't wait to see if it works well... But I dont want to spend like 2k on a PM2.5 detector if I can avoid it.

 

Private message me :)

 

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Got my PM2.5 sensor today from a vendor on Aliexpress. Paid about $45 U.S. after a $4 first time customer discount. Arrived to my home 11 days after my order was placed via their free shipping. It has a built-in battery, but charges via micro-USB cable.

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Air-Quality-Monitor-Mini-Laser-PM2-5-Monitor-Wall-mounted-Inovafitness-PM2-5-Detector-Gas-monitor/32826759103.html

 

The Aliexpress website for this product seems to be saying they're going to be having a 25% off sale starting in about a week. If that's true, then I might well pick up a second device with that kind of discount.

 

Just turned on the sensor in my unfiltered, doors and windows closed living room about 4:30 pm today, and seems to be bouncing around 30-32 micrograms, which is 93/upper end of moderate, on the AQI scale.

 

The closest official outdoors monitor to my home is Chula Hospital, which was reading 38 micrograms or 107 AQI, unhealthy for sensitive groups, as of 3 pm.

 

Working Device:

 

Box:

 

Manual:

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

WOW!!!

 

Got out my Honeywell 50250, set it up in my living room, and turned it on Medium at 5:15 pm, with my PM2.5 sensor showing about 32 micrograms indoors. The Honeywell unit is rated for rooms up to 390 sq. ft., and my living room/kitchen is about 430 sq. ft. with lots of not very tightly sealed windows (old Thai style window frames).

 

After 35 mins at 5:40 pm, the reading was down to 10 mcg.

After 45 mins at 6 pm, the reading was down to 5 mcg.

At 1 hour, it was still at 5 mcg, but had bounced down to 4 periodically.

 

32 mcg vs 5 mcg in less than a hour. That's a big difference.

 

Yikes!  What have I been breathing all these years!!!

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just did another test to see what would happen once I turned my Honeywell air purifier from Medium setting down to Low fan setting. Would it maintain the same low reading I had gotten earlier (and very quickly) by running the purifier on Medium.

 

Turned the Honeywell to Low at 6:15 pm and let it run on Low the past hour.  Even on low, it managed to maintain the low PM2.5 setting in the room, not going above 5 mcg, and bouncing as low as 3 mcg.

 

So, unlike some other sensor models, this Sndway model sensor clearly doesn't have any problem registering PM2.5 levels below 10 mcg.

 

At 7:15 pm, after having the Honeywell 50250 running on low fan the past hour: