Why are flights going West so much more expensive?

[ardokano]

Return from CNX to BKK to the UK (LHR) in May/June cheapest return 500gbp (without 10hs of stopovers in China)

But a return from the UK (LHR) to BKK to CNX is only 360gbp.

You compare same class ticket in same company? Is ticket one way or buy ticket two way with return? Many company for return ticket give cheapest price

[IMA_FARANG]

It is all about "supply and demand".

There are always more people wanting to go on a "holiday" to the "exotic holiday destinations" in Asia from Europe or the U.K. than the other way around.

[laislica]

The price is set on what the seller thinks the market will bear!

Proof:

What happens to prices in the xx season, why do they go up or down according to the season.

Why are flights/holidays/hotels always more expensive when children are on school holidays....

etc. etc. etc.

Pure price gouging, nothing less cutesy of the Cartels!!

MAFIA!

[sandyf]

It is all about "supply and demand".

There are always more people wanting to go on a "holiday" to the "exotic holiday destinations" in Asia from Europe or the U.K. than the other way around.

So 'demand' means prices will be cheaper. Different.

[sandyf]

Quoted within 5 minutes for the same route.

Passenger Fare Taxes, fees and carrier charges per person Total price**

1 Adult THB3,410(£68) THB21,455(£429)View taxes, fees and surcharges THB24,865

** The inclusive total of your ticket includes government taxes, fees, carrier imposed charge or fuel surcharge, where applicable per flight levied by the carrier.More details

Passenger Fare Taxes, fees and carrier charges per person Total price**

1 Adult £182.00 £384.44View taxes, fees and surcharges £566.44

** The inclusive total of your ticket includes government taxes, fees, carrier imposed charge or fuel surcharge, where applicable per flight levied by the carrier.More details

[laislica]

Quoted within 5 minutes for the same route.

Passenger Fare Taxes, fees and carrier charges per person Total price**

1 Adult THB3,410(£68) THB21,455(£429)View taxes, fees and surcharges THB24,865

** The inclusive total of your ticket includes government taxes, fees, carrier imposed charge or fuel surcharge, where applicable per flight levied by the carrier.More details

Passenger Fare Taxes, fees and carrier charges per person Total price**

1 Adult £182.00 £384.44View taxes, fees and surcharges £566.44

** The inclusive total of your ticket includes government taxes, fees, carrier imposed charge or fuel surcharge, where applicable per flight levied by the carrier.More details

from where to where.

Exchange rate please.

[chiang mai]

It is all about "supply and demand".

There are always more people wanting to go on a "holiday" to the "exotic holiday destinations" in Asia from Europe or the U.K. than the other way around.

So 'demand' means prices will be cheaper. Different.

Demand = competition, ergo more competitive prices.

[laislica]

It is all about "supply and demand".

There are always more people wanting to go on a "holiday" to the "exotic holiday destinations" in Asia from Europe or the U.K. than the other way around.

So 'demand' means prices will be cheaper. Different.

Demand = competition, ergo more competitive prices.

Whilst it would be nice to believe that I think it is more Cartels and price fixing to gouge the maximum the market will bear.

There used to be rogues like Virgin, Ryan Air but they all get pulled into line eventually by the

Mafia!

[sandyf]

It is all about "supply and demand".

There are always more people wanting to go on a "holiday" to the "exotic holiday destinations" in Asia from Europe or the U.K. than the other way around.

So 'demand' means prices will be cheaper. Different.

Demand = competition, ergo more competitive prices.

That's one view. My experience is quite the opposite, higher demand = higher prices.

School holidays being a classic example in UK. Here in Thailand I have yet to find a hotel that lowers its prices during the high season.

[chiang mai]

It is all about "supply and demand".

There are always more people wanting to go on a "holiday" to the "exotic holiday destinations" in Asia from Europe or the U.K. than the other way around.

So 'demand' means prices will be cheaper. Different.

Demand = competition, ergo more competitive prices.

That's one view. My experience is quite the opposite, higher demand = higher prices.

School holidays being a classic example in UK. Here in Thailand I have yet to find a hotel that lowers its prices during the high season.

In that example the businesses are acting as a cartel, captive market, it will be outlawed at some point.

[sandyf]

Demand = competition, ergo more competitive prices.

That's one view. My experience is quite the opposite, higher demand = higher prices.

School holidays being a classic example in UK. Here in Thailand I have yet to find a hotel that lowers its prices during the high season.

In that example the businesses are acting as a cartel, captive market, it will be outlawed at some point.

10 out of 10 for positive thinking.

[Satcommlee]

Enter the pilot, LOL. It could be supply and demand BUT it could be due to the jet stream. Planes simply have to buck that wind. For instance it might take as much as 2 hours longer on a long flight going East to West than in the other direction. We measure time in ground speed but the plane is limited to its airspeed. If it's going 500 mph into a 500 mph headwind its ground speed will be zero. It's going nowhere. OTOH in the other direction it would have a tailwind and would be going 500 mph airspeed and 1,000 mph, ground speed. Winds exaggerated for example, of course.

There is also the rotation of the earth. If you are on a 24 hour flight the earth will rotate once. Depending on whether the plane is flying with or against the earth's rotation, its ground speed will be faster or slower.

I've never been involved in assessing ticket prices but I do know that the cost of operating a plane is always expressed as X $ per hour.

I really have no idea if any of the above is figured into prices. I just know the phenomena exist.

Fun to think about, anyway.

Cheers.

500 mph headwind, do you fly much on planet venus?

[sandyf]

..........."

There is also the rotation of the earth. If you are on a 24 hour flight the earth will rotate once. Depending on whether the plane is flying with or against the earth's rotation, its ground speed will be faster or slower."

I love that one!!!!

I agree with NeverSure on winds, but earth's rotation???

Are you suggesting tbat if an aircraft takes off in BKK, it omly needs to maintain minimum speed to keep it aloft and wait for London to come to the aircraft??

Back to flight school theory on that one NS.

Probably a lot of contributing factors, but the principal one is supply versus demand, and there are times when west to east will be cheaper.

The earth turns with a speed of around 1750Km/h (circumference 42.000 divided by 24h) at the equator. The air masses moving with the rotation of the earth. Only wind will have an effect on flying time, and speed over ground.

Its just about 50 years since I did my Inertial Navigation training but if I remember right, rational thinking gets distorted by the Coriolis Effect.

[new2here]

It is all about "supply and demand".

There are always more people wanting to go on a "holiday" to the "exotic holiday destinations" in Asia from Europe or the U.K. than the other way around.

So 'demand' means prices will be cheaper. Different.

Demand = competition, ergo more competitive prices.

That's one view. My experience is quite the opposite, higher demand = higher prices.

School holidays being a classic example in UK. Here in Thailand I have yet to find a hotel that lowers its prices during the high season.

In that example the businesses are acting as a cartel, captive market, it will be outlawed at some point.

I don't know about that. I think most industries operate like this to varying levels. In the end, for things that tend to be more commodity-based, I don't think any viable player can really afford to be pricing themselves radically above or below what is then prevailing market rates. As such, I think if you were to then do a side-by-side comparison, I might look like collusion, but I don't think that's really what happened.

Now, IF there is some discussion or agreement between the various players to fix prices, add or remove inventory or similar, then that would be something different.

For airlines I think it really is much more of a "what will the market bear" story, and a mixed together with some fixed cost elements (like the governmentally imposed taxes) and charges.

[poohy]

A simple or not very simple mixture of

• In Europe (the west) people want to come to Thailand.........in Thailand people have to go to Europe airlines know this!!
• plus planes don't originate here most only are stop overs from elsewhere seats limited
• plus other airlines cannot drastically undercut Thai price even if they wanted to
• add airline fare structure a complicated system all of its own

[noface0711]

I don't know the answer why it changed, but about 10 - 15 years ago it was just the other way around.

[thequietman]

Oh well, bit the bullet and paid the 500gbp.

Return ticket,

94gbp for the airline, 406gbp in taxes

Bought a ticket to Ireland 5 days ago.

Bangers to Abu Dabi. Then Abu to Heathrow. Then on to Dublin. (2 hour stop over Abu and 2 3/4 in London)

Return, Dublin to Heathrow, ( 1 1/2 hours stopover) then Heathrow direct to Swampy.

Cost..............wait for it.......... 17,450 baht. Bargain. Flying with Etihad Airways.

[tartempion]

Go figure the airlines...

I bought an Amsterdam-Bangkok-Amsterdam biz class ticket at 1160 euro with a surrounding Bangkok-Amsterdam-Bangkok economy ticket at 22.000THB, approx 580 euro or 1740 euro for two Bangkok-Amsterdam trips, whilst one Bangkok-Brussels biz ticket with the same airline costs 105k baht or 2750 euro.

Distance between Brussels and Amsterdam is maybe 200 km, I'll find an easy solution for that.

Edited March 19, 2016 by tartempion

[ableguy]

Enter the pilot, LOL. It could be supply and demand BUT it could be due to the jet stream. Planes simply have to buck that wind. For instance it might take as much as 2 hours longer on a long flight going East to West than in the other direction. We measure time in ground speed but the plane is limited to its airspeed. If it's going 500 mph into a 500 mph headwind its ground speed will be zero. It's going nowhere. OTOH in the other direction it would have a tailwind and would be going 500 mph airspeed and 1,000 mph, ground speed. Winds exaggerated for example, of course.

There is also the rotation of the earth. If you are on a 24 hour flight the earth will rotate once. Depending on whether the plane is flying with or against the earth's rotation, its ground speed will be faster or slower.

I've never been involved in assessing ticket prices but I do know that the cost of operating a plane is always expressed as X $ per hour.

I really have no idea if any of the above is figured into prices. I just know the phenomena exist.

Fun to think about, anyway.

Cheers.

The rotation of the earth has nothing to do with flight time, the earths atmosphere rotates with the planet, exit a post from a pilot.

[Heng]

Because they can is the correct answer. It costs around 21,000 Baht on Bangkok Airways to Male (Maldives) for a 4.5 hour flight but then Maldivian Airlines charges around USD$400 or 13,600 Baht for the 20 MINUTE seaplane ride to the resort.

Because they can.

Bangkok Airways also set the market price when they were the only game to Samui.

[sandyf]

Because they can is the correct answer. It costs around 21,000 Baht on Bangkok Airways to Male (Maldives) for a 4.5 hour flight but then Maldivian Airlines charges around USD$400 or 13,600 Baht for the 20 MINUTE seaplane ride to the resort.

Because they can.

Bangkok Airways also set the market price when they were the only game to Samui.

Not a good example as Bangkok Airways built Samui airport.

[noface0711]

I looked up fares on Emirates Bangkok-London-Bangkok in June, and the lowest fare out, with taxes was 9000+ baht and back was 13000+.

[Heng]

Because they can is the correct answer. It costs around 21,000 Baht on Bangkok Airways to Male (Maldives) for a 4.5 hour flight but then Maldivian Airlines charges around USD$400 or 13,600 Baht for the 20 MINUTE seaplane ride to the resort.

Because they can.

Bangkok Airways also set the market price when they were the only game to Samui.

Not a good example as Bangkok Airways built Samui airport.

Still falls under 'because they can.' They built the airport and set the market price.

[Heng]

On this topic though, anyone recommend a 'better' site than Expedia? I've been using it since my college days and it's reliable. Wondering if there is something better. A lot of locals recommend Skyscanner.... but I'm kind of concerned when flights and sometimes entire airlines are left out by their search algorithms. For example July 2 to July 12 (returning), business class Bangkok to Tokyo. Expedia has the Delta flight at around 37,600 Baht per person but Skyscanner, which supposedly 'scans' dozens of sites (including Expedia), doesn't even allow the Delta flight to pop up. Yes, I know Delta business pales in comparison to most of the Asian carriers, but I prefer their seats when compared to say Cathay or Asiana regional business class. Sure wish Emirates did a BKK-Tokyo route.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Heng

[scotchonrocks]

It's got everything to do with marketing. If you look at the number of originating flights, the European stations will always have more pax originating flights than at the Asian end. This is largely because Thialand is predominantly a tourist destination and while the EU is the same for Thais (and also for returning expats) the origination numbers are a fraction of those of EU origin. This is an input in marketing to the extent of competing for the same space but with a stronger bargaining power due to numbers. It's the same for Bali-Australia or NZ-Australia but only on the major (ie not budget) carriers whose business model is different. With the major carriers mostly rtn tkts are far cheaper on per mile basis than ow. That's not the case for budget carriers who rarely offer rtn discounts. Since there are few budget carriers on the BKK-Europe run the matter is pretty clear: if you buy a ticket commencing/originating in Europe, it's usually going to be at a discount the other way around regardless of season but of course on a fair apples for apples time of travel comparison.

The thing to watch when booking is for school holidays and peak seasons at either side. Hope this helps (from a former airline ticket marketing exec).

[sandyf]

Because they can is the correct answer. It costs around 21,000 Baht on Bangkok Airways to Male (Maldives) for a 4.5 hour flight but then Maldivian Airlines charges around USD$400 or 13,600 Baht for the 20 MINUTE seaplane ride to the resort.

Because they can.

Bangkok Airways also set the market price when they were the only game to Samui.

Not a good example as Bangkok Airways built Samui airport.

Still falls under 'because they can.' They built the airport and set the market price.

It is not as straightforward as that. Airlines are free to offer fares within quite a wide range outside the so called market rate. I traveled here 3 times for £330 when the average price was £400.

Bangkok Airways, having made the investment in Samui airport would be under pressure from the shareholders and have little flexibility on the fare structure.

[KittenKong]

On this topic though, anyone recommend a 'better' site than Expedia? I've been using it since my college days and it's reliable. Wondering if there is something better. A lot of locals recommend Skyscanner.... but I'm kind of concerned when flights and sometimes entire airlines are left out by their search algorithms. For example July 2 to July 12 (returning), business class Bangkok to Tokyo. Expedia has the Delta flight at around 37,600 Baht per person but Skyscanner, which supposedly 'scans' dozens of sites (including Expedia), doesn't even allow the Delta flight to pop up. Yes, I know Delta business pales in comparison to most of the Asian carriers, but I prefer their seats when compared to say Cathay or Asiana regional business class. Sure wish Emirates did a BKK-Tokyo route.

Kayak have Delta at GBP759, and other airlines from GBP600.

https://www.kayak.co.uk/flights/BKK-NRT/2016-06-02/2016-06-12/business

[Heng]

Because they can is the correct answer. It costs around 21,000 Baht on Bangkok Airways to Male (Maldives) for a 4.5 hour flight but then Maldivian Airlines charges around USD$400 or 13,600 Baht for the 20 MINUTE seaplane ride to the resort.

Because they can.

Bangkok Airways also set the market price when they were the only game to Samui.

Not a good example as Bangkok Airways built Samui airport.

Still falls under 'because they can.' They built the airport and set the market price.

It is not as straightforward as that. Airlines are free to offer fares within quite a wide range outside the so called market rate. I traveled here 3 times for £330 when the average price was £400.

Bangkok Airways, having made the investment in Samui airport would be under pressure from the shareholders and have little flexibility on the fare structure.

Pressure from the shareholders is no different than saying we'll charge the most we can (if we can, because we can, etc.) where people will still purchase the product. The shareholders are involved whether the investment is building an airport or installing coffee makers in the lounges or repainting the fleet. There are plenty of regional routes that cost the same to the passenger as long haul routes, and it has nothing to do with fuel costs, taxes, or slot rentals.

[CNXBKKMAN]

On this topic though, anyone recommend a 'better' site than Expedia? I've been using it since my college days and it's reliable. Wondering if there is something better. A lot of locals recommend Skyscanner.... but I'm kind of concerned when flights and sometimes entire airlines are left out by their search algorithms. For example July 2 to July 12 (returning), business class Bangkok to Tokyo. Expedia has the Delta flight at around 37,600 Baht per person but Skyscanner, which supposedly 'scans' dozens of sites (including Expedia), doesn't even allow the Delta flight to pop up. Yes, I know Delta business pales in comparison to most of the Asian carriers, but I prefer their seats when compared to say Cathay or Asiana regional business class. Sure wish Emirates did a BKK-Tokyo route.

It's best to look at a few sites Expedia, Skyscanner etc . When you find something the next step is to book it direct with the airline or your trusted travel agent. The reason being if there is bad weather, delays, cancelled flights the airline and agent will look after better than an Expedia/kayak type website that have very few human staff and poor customer service. Just try ringing those websites to talk to someone on a foggy morning at Heathrow. If if they are at fault it's very hard to get your money back or any help. The airline will always help the passengers who booked direct with them before the passenger who booked on"cheapoairfaredotcom". Same thing if you need to make changes to your flights before or even after you have travelled.

[Heng]

Agree that Expedia telephone customer service is horrible.