Britain slams Israeli decision to expand settlements in West Bank

[Grouse]

Why are you whitewashing the 1948 ethnic cleansing?

Do you deny it happened?

It is called WAR and a WAR that the Palestinians started. These things happen in WAR and the Arabs killed as many Jews as they could. However, a LOT of knowledgeable people say it did not happen in the way that Ilan Pappe claimed. That is why Benny Morris - and many others, say he is a liar. You believe him, because he is saying what you want to hear.

I think the "war" you refer to was pre 1947. It was really an uprising protesting at giving the Jewish minority equality with the Palestinan who were far superior in numbers and land

This uprising had already been brutally put down by the British at bayonet point

Your "war" is more like the Nazi "war" against Polish Jews. They stood no chance either!

[Ulysses G.]

Benny Morris (Ben Gurion university - I kid you not) accepts that the ethnic cleaning if 700,000 of 900,000 Palestinians is a fact.

Benny Morris argues for the NECESSITY of ethnic cleansing in 1948. He faults David Ben-Gurion for failing to expel all Arab Israelis, and hints that it may be necessary to finish the job in the future.

“There are circumstances in history that justify ethnic cleansing. I know that this term is completely negative in the discourse of the 21st century, but when the choice is between ethnic cleansing and genocide – the annihilation of your people – I prefer ethnic cleansing.”

- Benny Morris

[Jingthing]

How about focusing here on where things are now? The competing historical narratives we've been all over that hundreds of times here.

Israelis have their narrative and the Palestinians have their narrative. The difference is that Israel allows the healthy freedom to criticize their own narrative internally which is gobbled up with glee by the obsessive Israel demonization agenda.

You don't have the same culture of being open to internal criticism in Palestinian circles.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Jingthing

[Grouse]

Benny Morris (Ben Gurion university - I kid you not) accepts that the ethnic cleaning if 700,000 of 900,000 Palestinians is a fact.

Benny Morris argues for the NECESSITY of ethnic cleansing in 1948. He faults David Ben-Gurion for failing to expel all Arab Israelis, and hints that it may be necessary to finish the job in the future.

There are circumstances in history that justify ethnic cleansing. I know that this term is completely negative in the discourse of the 21st century, but when the choice is between ethnic cleansing and genocide the annihilation of your people I prefer ethnic cleansing.

- Benny Morris

I rest my case. Sentencing will be in 30 days

[Ulysses G.]

Benny Morris (Ben Gurion university - I kid you not) accepts that the ethnic cleaning if 700,000 of 900,000 Palestinians is a fact.

Benny Morris argues for the NECESSITY of ethnic cleansing in 1948. He faults David Ben-Gurion for failing to expel all Arab Israelis, and hints that it may be necessary to finish the job in the future.

There are circumstances in history that justify ethnic cleansing. I know that this term is completely negative in the discourse of the 21st century, but when the choice is between ethnic cleansing and genocide the annihilation of your people I prefer ethnic cleansing.

- Benny Morris

I rest my case. Sentencing will be in 30 days

For ATTEMPTED GENOCIDE. The Palestinians are already serving time in a purgatory of their own making.

[dexterm]

Why are you whitewashing the 1948 ethnic cleansing?

Do you deny it happened?

It is called WAR and a WAR that the Palestinians started. These things happen in WAR and the Arabs killed as many Jews as they could. However, a LOT of knowledgeable people say it did not happen in the way that Ilan Pappe claimed. That is why Benny Morris - and many others, say he is a liar. You believe him, because he is saying what you want to hear.

Forget about the rights and wrongs; who started what. Israel's war crime is in not allowing Palestinian refugees to return to their homes. That is contrary to the Geneva Convention to which Israel is a signatory.

Getting back to the OP...

To compound their war crime thay have also transferred their own population into areas occupied

Articles 47-78 impose substantial obligations on occupying powers. As well as numerous provisions for the general welfare of the inhabitants of an occupied territory, an occupier may not forcibly deport protected persons, or deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into occupied territory (Art.49).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Geneva_Convention#Section_III._Occupied_territories

[Steely Dan]

Actually, the entire thread is based on a non-sequitur because the question as to whether settlements are legal or not is very much a political one without any clear cut legal basis to back it up. If you repeat a lie enough times it becomes accepted as common knowledge though.

The West Bank was illegally seized by Jordan in 1948 and captured by Israel in 1967 after Jordanian aggression.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/02/24/challenging-the-long-held-notion-that-israeli-settlements-are-illegal/

“Examination reveals how over the years U.N. General Assembly resolutions and the wording of resolutions by sub-committees moves from ‘territories’ to ‘occupied territories’ to ‘Occupied Territories’ and ‘Arab territories’ to ‘occupied Palestinian territories’ to ‘Occupied Palestinian Territory’ and ‘occupied Palestinian territory, including Jerusalem,’” the site wrote.

In other words the UN is trying to decide the status of territory through its own use of language and not due to any conclusive legal ruling. Similarly the EU is seeking to establish facts on the ground by funding illegal Palestinian settlements in land allocated to Israel according to the Oslo accords.

[Grouse]

Ah, the Jewish Virtual Library. That has no bias whatever

I knew that one was coming. The old biased source excuse -the last refuge of scoundrels. Yet, dexterm and your other brethren reference it constantly and the exact same thing is in countless history books.

Lunch

[dexterm]

Actually, the entire thread is based on a non-sequitur because the question as to whether settlements are legal or not is very much a political one without any clear cut legal basis to back it up. If you repeat a lie enough times it becomes accepted as common knowledge though.

The West Bank was illegally seized by Jordan in 1948 and captured by Israel in 1967 after Jordanian aggression.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/02/24/challenging-the-long-held-notion-that-israeli-settlements-are-illegal/

“Examination reveals how over the years U.N. General Assembly resolutions and the wording of resolutions by sub-committees moves from ‘territories’ to ‘occupied territories’ to ‘Occupied Territories’ and ‘Arab territories’ to ‘occupied Palestinian territories’ to ‘Occupied Palestinian Territory’ and ‘occupied Palestinian territory, including Jerusalem,’” the site wrote.

In other words the UN is trying to decide the status of territory through its own use of language and not due to any conclusive legal ruling. Similarly the EU is seeking to establish facts on the ground by funding illegal Palestinian settlements in land allocated to Israel according to the Oslo accords.

..allocated purely for temporary (Oslo Accords) control by Israeli security forces, not a gift of land for exclusive Jewish Only building permits. The Oslo Accords was an interim agreement designed to allow the gradual withdrawal of Israel from the West Bank, not an increase of colonists!

As John Kerry observed that in 2014, his office had noted only one building permit had been granted to the 300,000 Palestinian residents of Area C.

http://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=769192

Can you please tell us why the Palestinians who live there are not allowed to build homes or workplaces, but Jews can.

[up-country_sinclair]

I knew that one was coming. The old biased source excuse -the last refuge of scoundrels.

One of the many reasons you have no credibility on this forum (besides amongst your fellow Muslim hating clan members) is due to your unrepentant hypocrisy. You have a long history of making posts that criticize the sources used by others.

[seedy]

Troll / Flaming / Bickering post Removed

Keep the Personal Attacks off this Forum or be Suspended.

[Ulysses G.]

I knew that one was coming. The old biased source excuse -the last refuge of scoundrels.

One of the many reasons you have no credibility on this forum (besides amongst your fellow Muslim hating clan members) is due to your unrepentant hypocrisy. You have a long history of making posts that criticize the sources used by others.

I am not really concerned with my credibility with the hate-Israel crowd, but my point is that dexterm and numerous other of your ilk use the Jewish Virtual Library as a source constantly and link to it on this forum for historical information. OF COURSE there are bad sources, but the FACT that Palestinians attacked the new state of Israel is common knowledge, so attacking a source, that both sides use regularly, that just confirms common knowledge is just a cop out.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[dexterm]

To help readers visualize the creeping process of land confiscations by Israel of which the OP is a small part...

[Grouse]

Please stop it.

You're sounding pythonesque now

As you have already accepted, the Zionists ethnically cleansed the ethnic Arab Palestinians to "avoid risk of another holocaust.

Can we move on now

I'm getting bored.....

I may have to have another lunch!

[Ulysses G.]

Sounds like more made up gibberish. The Palestinians started a war, lost it - in a BIG way - and their fans are still whining about it 70 years later. Israel accepted the UN deal and have built a thriving country. The Palestinians refused and kept refusing to make peace and attacking innocent civilians. Now they have diddly-squat and it is their own fault.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[DeaconJohn]

Sounds like more made up gibberish. The Palestinians started a war, lost it - in a BIG way - and their fans are still whining about it 70 years later. Israel accepted the UN deal and have built a thriving country. The Palestinians refused and kept refusing to make peace and attacking innocent civilians. Now they have diddly-squat and it is their own fault.

That is the Zionist narrative, but the truth is much more complicated. It's not a black and white situation - there are many shades of gray. There has been terrorism on both sides of this conflict and that will continue until the Israelis stop the aggression and agree to live within their 1967 borders.

[Ulysses G.]

Sounds like more made up gibberish. The Palestinians started a war, lost it - in a BIG way - and their fans are still whining about it 70 years later. Israel accepted the UN deal and have built a thriving country. The Palestinians refused and kept refusing to make peace and attacking innocent civilians. Now they have diddly-squat and it is their own fault.

That is the Zionist narrative, but the truth is much more complicated.

It's not a black and white situation - there are many shades of gray.

There has been terrorism on both sides of this conflict and that will continue until the Israelis stop the aggression and agree to live within their 1967 borders.

The aggression will not stop until the Palestinians give up terrorism and agree to peace. Hammas will not accept the 1967 borders. Hammas do not want peace under any circumstances. Their real goal is to push Israel into the sea. Actually, that is probably Fatah's real goal also, but they are willing to pretend otherwise for political gain.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[Throatwobbler]

I knew that one was coming. The old biased source excuse -the last refuge of scoundrels.

One of the many reasons you have no credibility on this forum (besides amongst your fellow Muslim hating clan members) is due to your unrepentant hypocrisy. You have a long history of making posts that criticize the sources used by others.

I am not really concerned with my credibility with the hate-Israel crowd, but my point is that dexterm and numerous other of your ilk use the Jewish Virtual Library as a source constantly and link to it on this forum for historical information. OF COURSE there are bad sources, but the FACT that Palestinians attacked the new state of Israel is common knowledge, so attacking a source, that both sides use regularly, that just confirms common knowledge is just a cop out.

Good job you are not concerned with your credibility because you have none.

[NeverSure]

Sorry thread full...

Neversure wrote...

The EU can't afford to lose a single customer. The US, Canada, Mexico and all of S. America and also China and Russia are actually Israel's largest trading partner. Probably the EU's, too. whistling.gif Well, you are allowing the concept of adding up a bunch of countries to reach a total.

When it takes 500 countries which rarely agree on anything (think threatened Brexit and arguments about Muslim immigration and now border fences) to make a big enough splash to become "a trading partner", you're in a world of hurts.

I told you once and I'll tell you again. The UK is so tiny we could put it in Texas for the better weather and no one would be able to find it again.

Cheers.

What a joke. Rather than admit you were wrong when you asserted quite arrogantly with a personal flame to boot "Get over yourself" that the EU was not Israel's largest trading partner (but in fact is ....exactly as I have proven) and thus may actually have some real political clout when it comes to sanctions, you then deflect with some sort of obsessive size really does matter and compare UK to Texas, then lump together such diverse trading blocs as "The US, Canada, Mexico and all of S. America and also China and Russia" as being bigger than the EU...well of course they are...why not add Micronesia too? ...except they dont have a joint parliament that could impose sanctions..

As I said above, it would pay Israel well not to lose almost a third of its export income by upsetting their largest and closest trading partner, because of its land thefts and unjust repressive treatment of the Palestinians..

OK, OK. You don't have sarcasm in your country so I won't expect you to catch it.

Cheers.

[Steely Dan]

Sounds like more made up gibberish. The Palestinians started a war, lost it - in a BIG way - and their fans are still whining about it 70 years later. Israel accepted the UN deal and have built a thriving country. The Palestinians refused and kept refusing to make peace and attacking innocent civilians. Now they have diddly-squat and it is their own fault.

That is the Zionist narrative, but the truth is much more complicated.

It's not a black and white situation - there are many shades of gray.

There has been terrorism on both sides of this conflict and that will continue until the Israelis stop the aggression and agree to live within their 1967 borders.

The aggression will not stop until the Palestinians give up terrorism and agree to peace. Hammas will not accept the 1967 borders. Hammas do not want peace under any circumstances. Their real goal is to push Israel into the sea. Actually, that is probably Fatah's real goal also, but they are willing to pretend otherwise for political gain.

Actually Fatah scarcely bother to pretend, why bother when useful idiots in the West do their pretending for them?

[Scott]

Posts containing racial slurs have been removed along with replies.

[Ulysses G.]

I knew that one was coming. The old biased source excuse -the last refuge of scoundrels.

One of the many reasons you have no credibility on this forum (besides amongst your fellow Muslim hating clan members) is due to your unrepentant hypocrisy. You have a long history of making posts that criticize the sources used by others.

I am not really concerned with my credibility with the hate-Israel crowd, but my point is that dexterm and numerous other of your ilk use the Jewish Virtual Library as a source constantly and link to it on this forum for historical information. OF COURSE there are bad sources, but the FACT that Palestinians attacked the new state of Israel is common knowledge, so attacking a source, that both sides use regularly, that just confirms common knowledge is just a cop out.

Good job you are not concerned with your credibility because you have none.

I don't have any credibility with anti-Semites who won't admit what they are. Anti-Semites who deny it, in order to push a hateful agenda, against a people who have always had such duplicious enemies. They lie about the history of Israel and lie some more when the actual facts are explained to them with evidence to back it up. It is some kind of mental disease. To me, people like this are the worst kind of scum. I could case less what they think of me.

Edited March 20, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[Grouse]

NO

I really insist that you stop this nonsense

How dare you insinuate that I am antisemitic. I am anti Zionist and many Jews agree.

As I am sure you know, real Jews do not expect to return to Israel until the coming of the messiah

Terrorist supporters like you continue to forget that the British tried to offer additional support following the Second World War. Your kind repaid that with numerous cowardly terrorist actions against the British

The Israelis have been a damn nuisance for decades. It is about time you piped down, kept within your borders and showed some common humanity.

Got that?

Good. Kindly drop this and revert to your pro Trump rants on other threads

[Ulysses G.]

I am not Israeli and I am not all that pro Trump. I also don't believe a word you say from reading your past contributions. Anyone who complains about a "Jewish source" for history that is just stating common knowledge, is not worth listening to and your own rants are mostly Islamic conspiracy theories.

Edited March 20, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[Steely Dan]

NO

I really insist that you stop this nonsense

How dare you insinuate that I am antisemitic. I am anti Zionist and many Jews agree.

As I am sure you know, real Jews do not expect to return to Israel until the coming of the messiah

Terrorist supporters like you continue to forget that the British tried to offer additional support following the Second World War. Your kind repaid that with numerous cowardly terrorist actions against the British

The Israelis have been a damn nuisance for decades. It is about time you piped down, kept within your borders and showed some common humanity.

Got that?

Good. Kindly drop this and revert to your pro Trump rants on other threads

So now yet another anti-Israel obsessive thinks he's the arbiter of who 'real Jews' are. Also kindly stop your off topic whining about Britain's historical role. Britain severely restricted the flow of Jewish refugees heading for Palestine due to Arab pressure. Furthermore the British army not only trained the Jordanian army, but some British officers went on extended leave in 1948 in order to fight alongside the Jordanian army. So kindly quit your bombast, return to the topic and stop condescending to people, you are merely demonstrating your ignorance.

Edit: Not only did the British help Jordan, but they actively conspired to restrict Jews to a much smaller coastal area in defiance of the UN partition plan.

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.615667

Edited March 20, 2016 by Steely Dan

[Ulysses G.]

Let's not forget that BOTH sides attacked the British because they were speaking out of both sides of their mouths. They lied to both sides. They stabbed both the Jews AND the Arabs in the back.

[Grouse]

Glad you agree that the British were attacked by both sides

As I say, Israel has been a damned nuisance ever since it started

I for one am bored to death and at risk of becoming an anti Semite thanks the likes of you

[Ulysses G.]

Thou doth protest too much. I doubt if you need any help in that department.

[Grouse]

Laughable that you use that particular quote from Hamlet!

It is actually much more appropriate when applied to you

If you showed a little more balance you might be believed

The fact is that the Zionists ethnically cleansed the Palestians as a premptive strike for their own protection

Israel has continued in this way for decades

Shameful

[Jingthing]

Interesting bit of history. Golda Meir commenting on Palestinian identity. Start at 18:00 for that focus: