Permanent residency

[mardy1960]

hi has anybody read on thai visa expert about becoming a permanent resident after 3 years of continuous stay in thailand is this true

The minimum requirements to apply for Permanent residency is to have at least 3 years consecutive extensions issued from Thai Immigration, Holders of multiple NON-Immigrant visas can not apply. You must have 3 un-broken yearly extensions in order to qualify.

Advantages and Benefits:

It allows the holder to live permanently in Thailand, with no requirement to apply for an extension of temporary stay. In addition to the permanent residence book, an alien registration book will be issued, which is the equivalent of the ID card held by Thais.

A permanent resident can have his/her name included on a house registration document (for example, if you buy a house on wife’s name. You can have your name on house registration in order not to lose your property no matter what the circumstance may be in the future)

Obtaining a work permit is easier for a permanent resident than for a non-resident, but you still need to have a work permit if working.

A permanent resident also has a number of other privileges such as, for example, being able to:

• Buy a condominium without being required to transfer money from abroad
• Apply for naturalization in accordance with the law concerned
• Have Thai nationality granted to children who are born in Thailand
• Become a director of a public company; and
• Apply for an extension of stay or permanent residence for non-Thai family members

The Residency Permit itself never expires, unless revoked. To be able to leave the country and return at will, though, you need to apply each year for a re-entry permit (endorsement) at 1,000 baht (multiple entries). If you don’t leave Thailand, you don’t need to have an endorsement done. Also, you must present yourself at the police station covering the area where you are resident once every five years for a stamp in your book. An alien with permanent residency status will be eligible to apply for Thai citizenship after 10 consecutive years.

Edited March 22, 2016 by mardy1960

[Bobotie]

Yes its true...why so suprised ?

[mjnaus]

There some stuff that's just nonsense in the info you've provided:

1. You can have your name on a house registration WITHOUT a permanent residence. I have my name in the yellow tabien ban and I'm on a regular non-O visa

2. I seriously doubt the process to obtain a WP is easier for permanent residents, as far as I know, the process is the same wether you're on a non-O visa or permanent residence (if someone has other info on this please share)

3. You DO NOT need a permanent residence to apply for naturalisation, having a permanent residence is not a requirement

4. You DO NOT need a permanent residence to be a company director

It's basically a permanent visa, and the only possible advantage I see is not having to renew your extension of stay every year. Other then that, really not worth the 200.000 baht they're asking for one...

[Eclipse]

You also need a few years of paying income tax plus a load of other stuff.

Takes years to get it.

[elviajero]

Yes it is true but only one of the requirements. Getting a residency permit is impossible for many long term expats.

[muzmurray]

As the OP is on an extension of stay based on retirement and therefore not paying in country taxes, he would not be eligible anyway.

[Gulfsailor]

There some stuff that's just nonsense in the info you've provided:

1. You can have your name on a house registration WITHOUT a permanent residence. I have my name in the yellow tabien ban and I'm on a regular non-O visa

2. I seriously doubt the process to obtain a WP is easier for permanent residents, as far as I know, the process is the same wether you're on a non-O visa or permanent residence (if someone has other info on this please share)

3. You DO NOT need a permanent residence to apply for naturalisation, having a permanent residence is not a requirement

4. You DO NOT need a permanent residence to be a company director

It's basically a permanent visa, and the only possible advantage I see is not having to renew your extension of stay every year. Other then that, really not worth the 200.000 baht they're asking for one...

Regarding your list above;

2- it is much easier to get a WP as a permanent resident.

4- the original list talks of being director of a PUBLIC company, so not your run of the mill co.ltd.

And yes, apart from the 3 consecutive extensions of stay, you need to meet quite a few other requirements including minimum salary earned in Thailand.

[scorecard]

There some stuff that's just nonsense in the info you've provided:

1. You can have your name on a house registration WITHOUT a permanent residence. I have my name in the yellow tabien ban and I'm on a regular non-O visa

2. I seriously doubt the process to obtain a WP is easier for permanent residents, as far as I know, the process is the same wether you're on a non-O visa or permanent residence (if someone has other info on this please share)

3. You DO NOT need a permanent residence to apply for naturalisation, having a permanent residence is not a requirement

4. You DO NOT need a permanent residence to be a company director

It's basically a permanent visa, and the only possible advantage I see is not having to renew your extension of stay every year. Other then that, really not worth the 200.000 baht they're asking for one...

Not so fast... horses for courses.

It's true that PR is not cheap and some folks (repeat some folks) will say not enough benefits.

On the other hand (including me) there is the 'comfort' of knowing that you will never have to apply for a yearly renewal of the so called 'retirement visa' etc., and suddenly be refused.

In a nutshell, I like the comfort of knowing I have a 'lifetime visa' and therefore will never have the sudden unexpected situation of being separated from my wonderful Thai family.

For me this is a wonderful benefit beyond the cost. Horses for courses.

[mardy1960]

thank you all for your input will stick to my retirement visa and go every three months

[mjnaus]

2- it is much easier to get a WP as a permanent resident.

How so? Care to elaborate? According to my accountant, the requirements for a work permit are exactly the same, wether you have a PR or a regular non-O visa.

[Don Mega]

There some stuff that's just nonsense in the info you've provided:

1. You can have your name on a house registration WITHOUT a permanent residence. I have my name in the yellow tabien ban and I'm on a regular non-O visa

2. I seriously doubt the process to obtain a WP is easier for permanent residents, as far as I know, the process is the same wether you're on a non-O visa or permanent residence (if someone has other info on this please share)

3. You DO NOT need a permanent residence to apply for naturalisation, having a permanent residence is not a requirement

4. You DO NOT need a permanent residence to be a company director

It's basically a permanent visa, and the only possible advantage I see is not having to renew your extension of stay every year. Other then that, really not worth the 200.000 baht they're asking for one...

Regarding your list above;

2- it is much easier to get a WP as a permanent resident.

4- the original list talks of being director of a PUBLIC company, so not your run of the mill co.ltd.

And yes, apart from the 3 consecutive extensions of stay, you need to meet quite a few other requirements including minimum salary earned in Thailand.

Actually would need a min salary to get the extension.

[Bobotie]

2- it is much easier to get a WP as a permanent resident.

How so? Care to elaborate? According to my accountant, the requirements for a work permit are exactly the same, wether you have a PR or a regular non-O visa.

The written requirements maybe the same, but the fact your PR already, makes it just about a formality that the WP will be issued by the DOL thats why its easier

[scorecard]

2- it is much easier to get a WP as a permanent resident.

How so? Care to elaborate? According to my accountant, the requirements for a work permit are exactly the same, wether you have a PR or a regular non-O visa.

The written requirements maybe the same, but the fact your PR already, makes it just about a formality that the WP will be issued by the DOL thats why its easier

That's not my experience.

I got PR a long long time ago.

I've had WP's approved and renewed many many times. My admin. manager confirmed it's the same process and considerations by the labor ministry PR or no PR.

[Bobotie]

thank you all for your input will stick to my retirement visa and go every three months

On a retirement you wouldnt qualify anyway

[elviajero]

2- it is much easier to get a WP as a permanent resident.

How so? Care to elaborate? According to my accountant, the requirements for a work permit are exactly the same, wether you have a PR or a regular non-O visa.

The written requirements maybe the same, but the fact your PR already, makes it just about a formality that the WP will be issued by the DOL thats why its easier

Having PR does not guarantee that you will be issued with a WP. You still need to meet the requirements and renew every 1/2 years.

The advantage of PR is that you have permission to stay that allows work and doesn't need to be renewed every year.

[Arkady]

The OP is mainly right but here some corrections.

1. Since 2015 you also need to have been in the same job for at least 1 year at the time of application.

2. Yes, you get a red alien book which legally is the equivalent of an ID card that you are supposed to carry everywhere. But in fact the red book is a nuisance. It falls to pieces and you have to tape it together because you can't get a new one unless you report it lost which is a big hassle. Hardly any Thais know what it is, so they don't accept it as your ID card and ask for your passport and WP instead.

3. Now you can get a pink alien ID card. like the ones issued to minorities and alien workers as a PR, as long as your district office understands the relatively new regulations. That is more useful as ID, if you can get one.

4. Yes, you can have a blue tabien baan (house registration book) either as an occupant or a householder (owner or renter) with the owner's permission. If it is a condo the owner could be you. But this doesn't confer any degree of ownership or protection whatsoever. It is simply a census type record of who lives there and/or is the householder responsible for providing records of other residing there. Ownership is only conferred through title deed documents. I don't think the blue tabien baan actually confers any more benefits than the yellow one you can get without a PR.

5. Getting a WP is easier in the sense that you only have to apply to the DOE at the Labour Ministry, not Immigration and it is the latter that causes most of the problems. All the other requirements are the same, including the need to have 4 Thai employees, which was exempted until 2011. One problem is that you can't use the one-stop service that is available to staff of large companies. This can cause a headache for your HR department as they have to apply separately for you to the Labour Ministry. If you are married to a Thai your employer needs only 1 million paid up capital instead of 2 million. If you are a PR not married to a Thai, you still need 2 million. So in this respect being married to a Thai gives you more rights than having PR.

6. For the children of alien parents born in Thailand to get Thai nationality, both the father and the mother must have PR at the time of birth.

7. I think there is a quota of directors of public companies that need to be residents of Thailand, i.e. Thais or PRs (more than 50% I think). Certainly it is OK for directors of public companies to be resident overseas. I have served on the board of one that had a foreign director who didn't live in Thailand.

8. The annual cost of renewal of endorsement in resident book and multi entry visa was, I think, B3,800 the last time I had to do it in 2014 before I got Thai citizenship.

9. You are eligible to apply for Thai citizenship after 5 years with PR, not 10 years but you also need to be working with a WP and paying tax. Another route is now available for expats working in Thailand married to Thai women since 2008. They can bypass PR completely and apply for citizenship directly after 3 years of marriage (1 with a child) and 3 years of working with a WP and tax receipts. That is a lot cheaper than PR and confers far greater benefits.

In my opinion PR is still worthwhile for those who are not married to Thais. Those who are married to Thais should look closely into the option of applying for citizenship to see if that would work better for them.

[Captain Jack]

"In my opinion PR is still worthwhile for those who are not married to Thais. Those who are married to Thais should look closely into the option of applying for citizenship to see if that would work better for them."

Unless the rules have been changed then Thailand does not recognize dual nationality, especially by naturalization. In order to acquire Thai citizenship a foreign national must first renounce their existing citizenship. It's inconceivable that the advantages of doing so could possibly outweigh the advantages of Thai citizenship.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Captain Jack

[ubonjoe]

"In my opinion PR is still worthwhile for those who are not married to Thais. Those who are married to Thais should look closely into the option of applying for citizenship to see if that would work better for them."

Unless the rules have been changed then Thailand does not recognize dual nationality, especially by naturalization. In order to acquire Thai citizenship a foreign national must first renounce their existing citizenship. It's inconceivable that the advantages of doing so could possibly outweigh the advantages of Thai citizenship.

You do not have to renounce your current citizenship to obtain Thai nationality.

[thequietman]

9. You are eligible to apply for Thai citizenship after 5 years with PR, not 10 years but you also need to be working with a WP and paying tax. Another route is now available for expats working in Thailand married to Thai women since 2008. They can bypass PR completely and apply for citizenship directly after 3 years of marriage (1 with a child) and 3 years of working with a WP and tax receipts. That is a lot cheaper than PR and confers far greater benefits. ..........................................

Is there a minimum salary???

[stbkk]

"In my opinion PR is still worthwhile for those who are not married to Thais. Those who are married to Thais should look closely into the option of applying for citizenship to see if that would work better for them."

Unless the rules have been changed then Thailand does not recognize dual nationality, especially by naturalization. In order to acquire Thai citizenship a foreign national must first renounce their existing citizenship. It's inconceivable that the advantages of doing so could possibly outweigh the advantages of Thai citizenship.

You do not have to renounce your current citizenship to obtain Thai nationality.

Based on the last information I read on the citizenship thread(s), you have to provide a letter stating your intention to renounce your original nationality if you receive Thai nationality, as part of the application. As far as I am aware this is a recent requirement which is apparently now also mentioned in the interview process. However, as has been mentioned several times when I raised this in the threads, it is only a letter stating your intention, and intentions can change. I don't think it has been in force long enough for anybody who has provided such a letter to have received citizenship, so who knows what will actually happen.

I personally have no intention of renouncing my original citizenship ever, or of lying on a formal application, so while this is still a requirement that counts me out!

[Arkady]

The requirement for the declaration has been in effect since 2010 and a lot of people have applied since then and obtained citizenship already. In addition applicants who applied before that but had not yet been interviewed at the MoI were called back and asked to submit the declaration.  However, the declaration serves its purpose of dissuading people from applying admirably.

[arithai12]

A main hurdle for PR is the requirement (not mentioned by the OP) of a minimum salary. As I understand it, but corrections would be welcome, this is 80k Baht/month which must be proven from tax forms paid in Thailand and additional income from abroad doesn't count.

 

As for retaining your original nationality in the case of obtaining Thai citizenship: I know several persons who hold double passports. I think it's possible because the respective countries do not share this kind of information, but I suppose that if you are found out then you will have to make a choice.

[Jujus]

7 hours ago, arithai12 said:

A main hurdle for PR is the requirement (not mentioned by the OP) of a minimum salary. As I understand it, but corrections would be welcome, this is 80k Baht/month which must be proven from tax forms paid in Thailand and additional income from abroad doesn't count.

Small correction: you must pay taxes for 3 consecutive years before applying but the 80k minimum salary requirement applies only for the last 2 years before applying.

[arithai12]

7 hours ago, Jujus said:

Small correction: you must pay taxes for 3 consecutive years before applying but the 80k minimum salary requirement applies only for the last 2 years before applying.

Thanks for the clarification, and indirect confirmation.

[GroveHillWanderer]

So just to be clear - it appears from what I read here and in other threads that in order to get permanent residency (and/or citizenship) you need to have been working and paying taxes, so there is no possibility of either if you have never worked here and are on extension(s) of stay based on retirement? 

 

It's just that when I did my recent extension of stay, my wife asked the IO about the possibility of my getting PR and he indicated that it would theoretically be possible but not yet (I've only been here 2 years). Now I understand that the word of one IO (who was very possibly just telling my wife what she wanted to hear) is not definitive but it also appears that in the regulations on PR there seems to be a possibility to apply based on sponsoring or being sponsored by a Thai spouse?

[perthperson]

1 minute ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

so there is no possibility of either if you have never worked here and are on extension(s) of stay based on retirement? 

 

Absolutely correct. 

 

" also appears that in the regulations on PR there seems to be a possibility to apply based on sponsoring or being sponsored by a Thai spouse?" 

 

I also doubt this to be true. 

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Now I understand that the word of one IO (who was very possibly just telling my wife what she wanted to hear) is not definitive but it also appears that in the regulations on PR there seems to be a possibility to apply based on sponsoring or being sponsored by a Thai spouse?

At one it was possible to get one for having a Thai wife and only 30k baht income but that went away entirely in 2009 and even before then it was not done.

[GroveHillWanderer]

27 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

At one it was possible to get one for having a Thai wife and only 30k baht income but that went away entirely in 2009 and even before then it was not done.

OK, fair enough. I was basing it on a translation of the Immigration Act of 2522, carried on the bangkok.immigration.go.th website. So was there a more recent version of the Immigration Act issued in 2009 (or an amendment to it) or are they just not applying the provisions of the 2522 Act, where it says that one of the categories for PR is:

 

Quote

2.3.1 Spouse: To provide patronage or to be under patronage of a Thai national spouse 

 

If there's some kind of official document or reference to the change in policy that someone could supply, I'd really appreciate it as I'm having a great deal of difficulty persuading my wife that PR isn't possible for me, especially after they told her in the Immigration Office that it is. 

[perthperson]

2 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

OK, fair enough. I was basing it on a translation of the Immigration Act of 2522, carried on the bangkok.immigration.go.th website. So was there a more recent version of the Immigration Act issued in 2009 (or an amendment to it) or are they just not applying the provisions of the 2522 Act, where it says that one of the categories for PR is:

 

 

If there's some kind of official document or reference to the change in policy that someone could supply, I'd really appreciate it as I'm having a great deal of difficulty persuading my wife that PR isn't possible for me, especially after they told her in the Immigration Office that it is. 

No problem.  Have your wife complete all the paperwork and submit it on your behalf -- Who knows she might be right ! 

[esprit]

But the additional 2017 requirement for a PR application is that the alien, on acceptance of his/her application, must consent to undergo a full lobotomy.  The logic being that the current Junta do not want people holding PR that have a brain cell greater than theirs