NCPO grants police powers to military

[mrrizzla]

The huge mistake some naive posters seem to be making is that the agency carrying out this "clean" is one of the worst for the behavior that they claim they are exorcising.

Do people not look at Thai history from the past century or so and fail to realize that is the same show with different characters?

[smedly]

"...rooting out underworld influences and unduly “influential people” in the economy and society."

This is exactly what most people have been demanding for decades.

Using soldiers to arrest heavily-armed underworld groups and crime-bosses, is just basic common sense, because many serious gangsters have the kind of firepower that would put the lives of normal policemen and policewomen in danger.

So I will wait and see, I hope that they do break up underworld gangs, and apprehend the crime bosses.

I know I will be barbecued for writing this.

naive and surprising from you I must say

I'm surprised that it is surprising. I've been flame-grilled on this site for being a Junta Fangirl for several years, just for basically recognising that action must be taken to prevent macro corruption on all levels of society, and for not wanting to see more crime-related misery in the lives of normal honest working people.

The other point about army being used to break-up organised crime and corrupted positions in society, is two main points.

One, local police have to live in the same community, and they may be working under positions that have been compromised. So it may be hard to even engage in operations against influential local villains, if those villains have compromised certain positions in the force. On this same point, police in the area should rightly fear repercussions against themselves or their families, if they are identified as being involved in busting corrupt underworld figures, who have tentacles everywhere.

Secondly, and connected to the first point, is that army can be drafted in from other regions, they remain anonymous to the local crooks who may have compromised positions in the local force. Police can not really be moved from other regions, as that would leave their home regions vulnerable to higher crime rates. But a national army is by its nature national and can be relocated for purposes of anonymity, in situations where corruption and intimidation has spread deeply into a local community.

There is no actual way to convey the damage that corruption and crime does to a nation, how it saps the wealth from the nation, or the fear that normal working people have to live in, when there are compromised and corrupted authority positions in their community. So you have to weigh those terrible problems, alongside a military component in response to the problems.

great post and 100% correct, Lanna Mzurf snig and ....oh forgot the other one lol....... will not agree but hey, they claim to be the majority on these thread so your opinion doesn't matter

the 4 posters on this thread claiming they represent some sort of majority - maybe in their own tiny little worlds

[baboon]

The huge mistake some naive posters seem to be making is that the agency carrying out this "clean" is one of the worst for the behavior that they claim they are exorcising.

Do people not look at Thai history from the past century or so and fail to realize that is the same show with different characters?

No they don't. They look at the Shinawatra family. That's it.

[smedly]

"...rooting out underworld influences and unduly “influential people” in the economy and society."

This is exactly what most people have been demanding for decades.

Using soldiers to arrest heavily-armed underworld groups and crime-bosses, is just basic common sense, because many serious gangsters have the kind of firepower that would put the lives of normal policemen and policewomen in danger.

So I will wait and see, I hope that they do break up underworld gangs, and apprehend the crime bosses.

I know I will be barbecued for writing this.

The other alternative, and in my opinion the correct one, would be to improve the police force and other investigation depts. Danger is what one should expect if signing to be a policeman anywhere and hardened gangsters don't just operate in Thailand. This move, imo, is just an excuse by the junta to have more power over the people. What's the next one, dismantling the judicial system and have all army tribunals?

although your idea is a sound one there is a major problem, what you are suggesting takes time - a very long time, probably talking 10+ years to even make a dent, the other problem is that soon we will have an elected government back in place and any ideas of wiping out corruption and the pursuit of reforms will be very quickly forgotten, greed and thieving will take over and the cycle will begin again

[eldragon]

So does this mean I can go get a soldier to arrest a cop for trying to make me pay a bribe?

This country is slipping further away from freedom of its people and soon, will affect its tourism dollars if it continues.

Depends on how much you pay that soldier, I suppose.

[mtls2005]

Why wait nearly two years to address what is being portrayed as an attempt "...to carry out the junta’s policy of rooting out underworld influences and unduly “influential people” in the economy and society"?

Seems like this should have been job #1 from the beginning, assuming it is so important?

Why am I reminded of "The Godfather" film?

[mrrizzla]

"...rooting out underworld influences and unduly “influential people” in the economy and society."

This is exactly what most people have been demanding for decades.

Using soldiers to arrest heavily-armed underworld groups and crime-bosses, is just basic common sense, because many serious gangsters have the kind of firepower that would put the lives of normal policemen and policewomen in danger.

So I will wait and see, I hope that they do break up underworld gangs, and apprehend the crime bosses.

I know I will be barbecued for writing this.

The other alternative, and in my opinion the correct one, would be to improve the police force and other investigation depts. Danger is what one should expect if signing to be a policeman anywhere and hardened gangsters don't just operate in Thailand. This move, imo, is just an excuse by the junta to have more power over the people. What's the next one, dismantling the judicial system and have all army tribunals?

although your idea is a sound one there is a major problem, what you are suggesting takes time - a very long time, probably talking 10+ years to even make a dent, the other problem is that soon we will have an elected government back in place and any ideas of wiping out corruption and the pursuit of reforms will be very quickly forgotten, greed and thieving will take over and the cycle will begin again

And the greed and thieving isn't happening with this current mob?

How is Prayuth any different to any coup leader before him?

[phoenixdoglover]

The Police also work nationwide. I know one policeman who regularly works at the other side of the country, for a week or months in row.

My point, which you deftly side-stepped, was that army units from another region, would most likely not be known to the crooks who have a corrupt stranglehold in a different region. Local police in that region would be very much on display, troops from another region would not. Was my point.

Allright i 'll write it in baby-language, hopefully you understand it then.

My policefriend from Bangkok is member of a special team which works in Phuket, Chaing mai, Pattaya to arrest the bad boys there. After that they come back to BKK for a while and get a new mission.

Now you figure out why they work that way......

Just running with your example for a bit.

A primary stated objective of the Junta is "reform".

Most people recognize there are long term, serious problems with the RTP. Corruption is regarded as undermining the rule of law. Therefor, reform of the RTP is an obvious target.

The RTP as presently organized does not seem to encourage policing of the police. One way to address this is to split the police into national and regional forces, separately administered (not under the same umbrella). The national force would have certain responsibilities for major crimes, and a specialized unit of the national police would focus on arresting and prosecuting corrupt police. At the Regional level, the police would focus on the bulk of crimes; however, the law would permit them to investigate and prosecute crimes committed by any member of the National police force.

Now, this is just the germ of an idea about how to reform the RTP. Obviously, much more would be required. But the Junta has had almost 2 years to identify and implement systemic types of reforms like this, and have utterly failed to do so.

The obvious question is, why has the Junta largely avoided systemic reforms (of the police, courts, army, etc.)?

I think the most likely answer is that the Junta enjoys a wide range of privileges from the system as it stands, and their focus is on retaining power, and tuning the system for their ongoing benefit. Part of that tuning is to usurp the power of constitutional authorities such as the police, to abrogate the rights of citizens, and to take action against those people that would criticize or oppose them.

Making up fairy tales about the goodness of the army and their powerful friends is not necessary to understand them.

[Thaidream]

actually, the General is doing exactly what he said he would do when he took power. He gave the police a chance to do their job. Now, since they are unable or unwilling to crack the huge mafia influence that permeates all of Thailand- he has ordered the Army to do it. While from a Western perspective this seems terrifying because of so many differences from our traditional interaction with government and police; it is not shocking to the Thai public. The average Thai or average Expat in Thailand will not be affected at all. Those Thai and Foreign mafia will be affected because life for them just got real complicated. If this was happening in any Western country- I would be shocked, but it is happening in Thailand which has operated for too long allowing the police to ignore those cases that it does not want to pursue and in effect allow influence; money; and corruption to run amok. If the military can break this power it will have done a great service to the average Thai person.

Expats have complained for years on this board about the very things that the General wants to correct and now when he moves- people are still complaining. Some say use Article 44 to reform the police. As one poster rightfully posts-it would take more than 10 years. It is also interesting to note that the new Constitution places a 5 year 'watch period' on the civilian government once in place so they cannot turn back the reforms. As someone who has been here a long time and seen many civilian and military governments- this current government is actually doing what it said it would do- reform .. If this reform works and powerful influence and corruption can be neutralized, the average person will have a future and the country will prosper. No one is going to come knocking on your door; awaken you in the middle of the night; and lock you in a Guantanamo like prison. Everyone knows who the Thai mafia is and everyone knows who the Foreign Mafia is that controls the entertainment industry in Bangkok; Pattaya and Phuket. They will get the knock on the door. Relax and sleep tight.

[jaywalker]

Is this the Georgia route? Will we see the useless police force completely disbanded as soon as the military feels comfortable in its new role?

I think it's a step towards the Syria route.

[phoenixdoglover]

"...rooting out underworld influences and unduly “influential people” in the economy and society."

This is exactly what most people have been demanding for decades.

Using soldiers to arrest heavily-armed underworld groups and crime-bosses, is just basic common sense, because many serious gangsters have the kind of firepower that would put the lives of normal policemen and policewomen in danger.

So I will wait and see, I hope that they do break up underworld gangs, and apprehend the crime bosses.

I know I will be barbecued for writing this.

The other alternative, and in my opinion the correct one, would be to improve the police force and other investigation depts. Danger is what one should expect if signing to be a policeman anywhere and hardened gangsters don't just operate in Thailand. This move, imo, is just an excuse by the junta to have more power over the people. What's the next one, dismantling the judicial system and have all army tribunals?

Yes, using military courts is the next step. When people are arrested without warrants and based on nothing but the granted power of arrest, than the only choice for prosecution is a court with fewer protections for the defendant. Military courts should do fine.

And some people will see nothing wrong with this. Sigh.

Edited March 31, 2016 by phoenixdoglover

[Tatertot]

So does this mean I can go get a soldier to arrest a cop for trying to make me pay a bribe?

This country is slipping further away from freedom of its people and soon, will affect its tourism dollars if it continues.

Yu'p sure can, But it'll cost ya 400 bath for the soldier rather than the 200 bath for the cop, Now that's progress huh.

And where are the TVF fanboy's of this mob? conveniently quiet yet again when there is a story like this. Difficult to justify this as well huh fella's...

Oh they will.

"But but Thaksin....."

Hard to say which would be better! A PTP dictator ruling or the current Junta. I'm going to have to say the Junta because so far nobody has disappeared or been killed.

No one has disappeared? What was it, 30 years sentence for a Facebook post? Hmm..

[Plutojames88]

Primary aim is to have mechanisms in place to speedily arrest people ( including opposition) fear also quietens down protractors .

The excuses are not important as it is , polls might show 90 odd percent will support the move , or whatever figure they wish.

Debate on who is being arrested and why ?

If opposition are being accused as unlawful therefore mafia or not is unimportant ( to them)

Just like the the thread on attracting high end tourists it's translated into Thai and run for domestic consumption .

Taxi drivers , Hotels , Malls , and shops , bars , girls , touts , and anyone who makes a buck out of tourists would in their declining economy wish it to be so.

And as we know that's the national affliction .

Believing something that evidence points against its truths.

So it is the Government straight faced can tell international audiences that they mean well.

Are only care taking, arresting evil doers .

The crack downs on mafia etc.

People who accept this on face value can do so if they wish.

But evidence supports a different dialogue .

Opposition are being sent to AA and others jailed .

Some on trial .

Freedom of speech is restricted.

Elections looking irrelevant if they are manifestly construed to suit current forces.

This extension of law enforcement is simply a tool to control.

And the idea is to have a strong arm force that people dare not utter against.

As time passes

This will become clearer to all.

[phoenixdoglover]

actually, the General is doing exactly what he said he would do when he took power. He gave the police a chance to do their job. Now, since they are unable or unwilling to crack the huge mafia influence that permeates all of Thailand- he has ordered the Army to do it. While from a Western perspective this seems terrifying because of so many differences from our traditional interaction with government and police; it is not shocking to the Thai public. The average Thai or average Expat in Thailand will not be affected at all. Those Thai and Foreign mafia will be affected because life for them just got real complicated. If this was happening in any Western country- I would be shocked, but it is happening in Thailand which has operated for too long allowing the police to ignore those cases that it does not want to pursue and in effect allow influence; money; and corruption to run amok. If the military can break this power it will have done a great service to the average Thai person.

Expats have complained for years on this board about the very things that the General wants to correct and now when he moves- people are still complaining. Some say use Article 44 to reform the police. As one poster rightfully posts-it would take more than 10 years. It is also interesting to note that the new Constitution places a 5 year 'watch period' on the civilian government once in place so they cannot turn back the reforms. As someone who has been here a long time and seen many civilian and military governments- this current government is actually doing what it said it would do- reform .. If this reform works and powerful influence and corruption can be neutralized, the average person will have a future and the country will prosper. No one is going to come knocking on your door; awaken you in the middle of the night; and lock you in a Guantanamo like prison. Everyone knows who the Thai mafia is and everyone knows who the Foreign Mafia is that controls the entertainment industry in Bangkok; Pattaya and Phuket. They will get the knock on the door. Relax and sleep tight.

A simple question: what is the "reform" that you believe has been implemented?

As best I can tell, you believe that granting the Army the power to arrest people without warrants is a reform because it will result in the arrest of criminals. Does that mean the military should be given this power permanently? If not, than what is the reform action you believe has been implemented that will be in place after the military gives up this police power?

[elgordo38]

This is going to get out of hand.

If you look closer it already has and has been for some time.

[mrrizzla]

So many deluded people here. Stop drinking your wife's kool aid, get a VPN and do some actual research about the situation in Thailand. Read up on Prayuth and the Eastern Tigers.

[elgordo38]

Police spokesman Kritsana Pattanacharoen responded to the order Wednesday, saying he believed the junta empowered the military with police powers to support the police, as he said they don’t have enough officers.

Again, aren't there over 200,000 police officers?

Yesterday, the Tourism and Sports Minister assured that up to 4,000 police officers have been deployed to ensure safety during Songkran, as though that is some huge amount - just how many of the 200-plus-thousand members of the RTP are in active or operational positions??

They are being held in reserve. If you figure in the fact that each ranking officer has a number of gofers there really is not a lot of real worker bees sorry police left over to do the job. Its really something to observe a ranking officer with these gofers swarming around him. I had the rare opportunity to observe first hand. Looks like the grooming of the Queen Bee.

[phoenixdoglover]

Prawit defends giving sweeping power to military personnel to tackle crimes...

All officers from the three armed services with the rank of sub-lieutenant and higher will become claw enforcement officers with lower ranks acting as assistants.

They are authorised to deal with a wide range of crimes, ranging from extortion, human trafficking, robbery, fraud, defamation, loan shark, alien workers, gambling, immigration, child protection, , forest encroachment, prostitution, price collusion, and firearms.

In the midst of distressing news, there is always the translation error.

Or perhaps not.

[pedro01]

Nothing to do with supplementing/assisting the police in fighting organized crime, everything to do with further consolidating the grip on power.

And @ "Pedro 01", it began with the coup. Just because it hasn't impacted your lifestyle doesn't mean that it isn't happening, nor does it mean that it isn't affecting the Thais.

Still, you've got your chill pills - possibly the most naive and foolish response - as well as being staggeringly contemptuous of the people amongst whom you live.

Aaaaah "The Thais".

Well - my wife is Thai, my kids are Thai, my employees are Thai, my Maid is Thai, I have lots of Thai relatives.

None of these people have been negatively impacted by the coup. I know that because we are allowed to discuss it openly without fear. And so we do.

The only observable impact is that we no longer have to worry about street protests. Having been caught in Silom when shooting started and having the army come and grab me to get me to shelter, I am happy for that.

I've discussed this with many of the Thais I know, with very few exceptions (the girl that cuts my hair), people feel much safer now but there is a general sentiment of disappointment about the lack of action since the coup.

So you can comment I an naive, foolish and contemptuous if you like. Carry on saying it's like Nazi German here, that there are no freedoms ya de ya de ya. What I am is informed. You guys banging the "fear" and "nazi" drum are out of touch with reality.

Life hasn't changed here.

Life hasn't changed here for you, you mean, which is all you care about.

Of course you and yours can discuss what is going on without fear: you are playing on the side of the House.

As for "Carry on saying it's like Nazi German here, that there are no freedoms ya de ya de ya." Freedom is how free your opponent is.

Look, let's cut to the chase here. Soldiers last night were granted sweeping authority to conduct warrantless searches of homes, seize assets and detain civilians without charge and you are just fine with that. I think that tells the reader all they need to know about you.

Nope

Life hasn't changed for me, my family, my friends and my employees.

Honestly - just get a grip trying to throw around half-baked insults to prove a point that is void of facts.

People said Article 44 would turn Thailand into Nazi Germany and it didn't. Neither will this. But we'll find out in due course.

As for "what it says about me" - grow up for heaven's sake. This is a discussion board where we discuss our opinions. Try to understand that having a different opinion to your own doesn't make someone a bad person.

[kblaze]

actually, the General is doing exactly what he said he would do when he took power. He gave the police a chance to do their job. Now, since they are unable or unwilling to crack the huge mafia influence that permeates all of Thailand- he has ordered the Army to do it. While from a Western perspective this seems terrifying because of so many differences from our traditional interaction with government and police; it is not shocking to the Thai public. The average Thai or average Expat in Thailand will not be affected at all. Those Thai and Foreign mafia will be affected because life for them just got real complicated. If this was happening in any Western country- I would be shocked, but it is happening in Thailand which has operated for too long allowing the police to ignore those cases that it does not want to pursue and in effect allow influence; money; and corruption to run amok. If the military can break this power it will have done a great service to the average Thai person.

Expats have complained for years on this board about the very things that the General wants to correct and now when he moves- people are still complaining. Some say use Article 44 to reform the police. As one poster rightfully posts-it would take more than 10 years. It is also interesting to note that the new Constitution places a 5 year 'watch period' on the civilian government once in place so they cannot turn back the reforms. As someone who has been here a long time and seen many civilian and military governments- this current government is actually doing what it said it would do- reform .. If this reform works and powerful influence and corruption can be neutralized, the average person will have a future and the country will prosper. No one is going to come knocking on your door; awaken you in the middle of the night; and lock you in a Guantanamo like prison. Everyone knows who the Thai mafia is and everyone knows who the Foreign Mafia is that controls the entertainment industry in Bangkok; Pattaya and Phuket. They will get the knock on the door. Relax and sleep tight.

You really are in a dream. Astounding naivety. Your whole thesis is predicated on the Thai Army being itself corrupt-free. Which scandal shall I direct you to that proves otherwise?

You say "it is not shocking to the Thai public" - How do you arrive at that determination given that it is illegal for Thais to voice opposition? Are you really interpreting "forced silence" to be "acceptance"?

Edited March 31, 2016 by kblaze

[scorecard]

I seem to recall this EXACT SAME THING happening in Europe about 75 years ago when Hitler gave all his SS commandos police powers.

That worked out great didn't it?

Last week the .PM was on TV around 9:00 pm. He said something along the lines, that children who see their parents doing something wrong or damages the countries image, should tell to stop doing it. English subtitles. I thought at the time is this how it started in 1930s Germany? What next encourage the children to report their parents?

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

This could be interpreted several ways.

Just one example, my Thai son and his Thai wife see everything as a learning opportunity for their 3 kids, so they don't run red lights etc.

My son regularly mentions to his relatives about how they reinforce wrong doing by their daily behaviors and how it teaches their kids that breaking laws, impolite behaviors /disrespect for the rights of others and much more is all OK. The relatives tell my son he is wrong - 'others run red lights so it's OK for me to do it too.'

[Thaidream]

The reform that will be in place after a civilian government is in power and the 5 year period passes is that the executive, legislative and judicial branches of government will actually run by the rule of law and not be influenced by power. money or corruption. All people will be treated the same. the rich and powerful will not be able to buy their way out of trouble or buy their way into power. The police will actually be reformed and do their job. A National budget will be approved and the actual budget be spent as allocated without 20-30% skimmed off the top. An educational system that works will be put into place which makes Thailand competitive in the World arena. The economy will improve and the income level of the average Thai will rise so its sons and daughters do not have to go into the entertainment industry to stay alive.

I do not think this will all happen overnight or in 5 years, but I believe that if the reforms that this government wants to make are put into practice- there is long term hope for the country. There is also planning for the expected and unexpected and the military believes it is most suited at this time in history to manage those changes.

As far as economic reform- industry really needs to be encouraged to move into Isan and not into the Current industrial areas of Rayong; Chonburi; and Bangkok-Samut Prakon. The red shirts exist for a reason and part of this reform has to be a reconciliation between the disparate groups. They have been hijacked by the Shin Group for their own selfish purposes but the current Junta plans on breaking that connection. The prior civilian governments couldn't or wouldn't do this. Too much money politics- which will no longer exist as part of the reforms.

I do not think the military government is perfect and without flaws, but its only chance for real change is what is happening now. No elected civilian government will make the changes. let's see if the General can make it happen.

[JAG]

Here we go...you couldn't make it up..again !! ...the military giving the military the power to do what they want without warrants..

Looking forward to hear what Human rights organizations have to say about this 'Democratic' decision .

You mean the Human rights organizations who give themselves huge salaries from the gifts of civilians? And they use students to collect the gifts who get a bonus (percentage) of it?

I can't be bothered what they think!

The Police doesn't do their job so it ain't strange that now the Army is ordered to do it.

After all Thailand became what it is dued by the lack of (real) Police.

Yes and no.

The police generally don't do their job, agreed, and a lot of Thailand's issues would be sorted by a reformed, properly functioning police force, that's for sure - but, the RTP and the RTA are generally regarded as competing mafia-like organisations with competing allegiances.

If, and that's a huge 'if', Prayuth is doing this in order to root out the criminals, then great carry on, but I fear this is just another move in his power grab. He already has assured himself control of the government for pretty much as long as he wants, his minions are on the boards of most, if not all, of Thailand's state-run agencies, he commands the military, and now is sidelining the RTP.

There will inevitably be a massive shift in Thai society, which could occur any day, so the elites need to have the right people in power, and have full control of the country. This is, in many peoples' opinion, the reason for the coup in the first place.

It's becoming an increasingly scarier time to be in Thailand.

Guess you still don't know how it works here. Prayuth didn't assure himself control of the government, the real boss did.

And if there has to be change of power to get things changed here then i'm all for it. We know how good the police is so at least it can't get any worse.

And since the army is in control i didn't see any big protests, occupied roads, bombings, shootings like it was before he came in charge. It was a warzone in BKK.

He ordered the police last week to arrest 6000 criminals, how many do they have in custody today? So it's smart to give the power to another team, lets' see what they can do.

And i haven't heard of big scandals about the army other then a soldier smuggling 6 cartons of cigarettes.

If you think Bangkok was a war zone before the coup, my friend you have never been near even a very small war!

[slipperylobster]

The dams may be drying up, put not the powers of the current government.

[Plutojames88]

The people who think corruption is not within the current frame work , need only look at the judicial system and people jailed for liking something on Facebook , or displaying a bowl , mocking a dog, or writing the truth.

It's even irrelevant what they think or why in some warped way justifiable .

Armed people taking over a country is in the usual framework considered in itself to not be a legitimate act.

But in extreme circumstance s can be forgiven / tolerated .

Now it's a case of hostages being told they may not even complain.

And ironically moral and ethical judgements cast upon them for doing so by the said captors.

And now the next phase is fear and entrenchment .

See rigged elections and Boof heads with guns at the ready if you say boo.

That's no longer a debatable issue.

In most minds it is what it is.

Military strong arm.

Welcome to the new Thailand .

[baboon]

Nothing to do with supplementing/assisting the police in fighting organized crime, everything to do with further consolidating the grip on power.

And @ "Pedro 01", it began with the coup. Just because it hasn't impacted your lifestyle doesn't mean that it isn't happening, nor does it mean that it isn't affecting the Thais.

Still, you've got your chill pills - possibly the most naive and foolish response - as well as being staggeringly contemptuous of the people amongst whom you live.

Aaaaah "The Thais".

Well - my wife is Thai, my kids are Thai, my employees are Thai, my Maid is Thai, I have lots of Thai relatives.

None of these people have been negatively impacted by the coup. I know that because we are allowed to discuss it openly without fear. And so we do.

The only observable impact is that we no longer have to worry about street protests. Having been caught in Silom when shooting started and having the army come and grab me to get me to shelter, I am happy for that.

I've discussed this with many of the Thais I know, with very few exceptions (the girl that cuts my hair), people feel much safer now but there is a general sentiment of disappointment about the lack of action since the coup.

So you can comment I an naive, foolish and contemptuous if you like. Carry on saying it's like Nazi German here, that there are no freedoms ya de ya de ya. What I am is informed. You guys banging the "fear" and "nazi" drum are out of touch with reality.

Life hasn't changed here.

Life hasn't changed here for you, you mean, which is all you care about.

Of course you and yours can discuss what is going on without fear: you are playing on the side of the House.

As for "Carry on saying it's like Nazi German here, that there are no freedoms ya de ya de ya." Freedom is how free your opponent is.

Look, let's cut to the chase here. Soldiers last night were granted sweeping authority to conduct warrantless searches of homes, seize assets and detain civilians without charge and you are just fine with that. I think that tells the reader all they need to know about you.

Nope

Life hasn't changed for me, my family, my friends and my employees.

Honestly - just get a grip trying to throw around half-baked insults to prove a point that is void of facts.

People said Article 44 would turn Thailand into Nazi Germany and it didn't. Neither will this. But we'll find out in due course.

As for "what it says about me" - grow up for heaven's sake. This is a discussion board where we discuss our opinions. Try to understand that having a different opinion to your own doesn't make someone a bad person.

What void of facts point am I trying to prove? I don't know what you are on about.

[Plutojames88]

The reform that will be in place after a civilian government is in power and the 5 year period passes is that the executive, legislative and judicial branches of government will actually run by the rule of law and not be influenced by power. money or corruption. All people will be treated the same. the rich and powerful will not be able to buy their way out of trouble or buy their way into power. The police will actually be reformed and do their job. A National budget will be approved and the actual budget be spent as allocated without 20-30% skimmed off the top. An educational system that works will be put into place which makes Thailand competitive in the World arena. The economy will improve and the income level of the average Thai will rise so its sons and daughters do not have to go into the entertainment industry to stay alive.

I do not think this will all happen overnight or in 5 years, but I believe that if the reforms that this government wants to make are put into practice- there is long term hope for the country. There is also planning for the expected and unexpected and the military believes it is most suited at this time in history to manage those changes.

As far as economic reform- industry really needs to be encouraged to move into Isan and not into the Current industrial areas of Rayong; Chonburi; and Bangkok-Samut Prakon. The red shirts exist for a reason and part of this reform has to be a reconciliation between the disparate groups. They have been hijacked by the Shin Group for their own selfish purposes but the current Junta plans on breaking that connection. The prior civilian governments couldn't or wouldn't do this. Too much money politics- which will no longer exist as part of the reforms.

I do not think the military government is perfect and without flaws, but its only chance for real change is what is happening now. No elected civilian government will make the changes. let's see if the General can make it happen.

Jim Jones type faith ?

Nah this is a jungle and I ain't drinkin that medicine .

Go ahead and believe all you want ....your in a very slim special group of people who do

Edited March 31, 2016 by Plutojames88

[mrrizzla]

The reform that will be in place after a civilian government is in power and the 5 year period passes is that the executive, legislative and judicial branches of government will actually run by the rule of law and not be influenced by power. money or corruption. All people will be treated the same. the rich and powerful will not be able to buy their way out of trouble or buy their way into power. The police will actually be reformed and do their job. A National budget will be approved and the actual budget be spent as allocated without 20-30% skimmed off the top. An educational system that works will be put into place which makes Thailand competitive in the World arena. The economy will improve and the income level of the average Thai will rise so its sons and daughters do not have to go into the entertainment industry to stay alive.

I do not think this will all happen overnight or in 5 years, but I believe that if the reforms that this government wants to make are put into practice- there is long term hope for the country. There is also planning for the expected and unexpected and the military believes it is most suited at this time in history to manage those changes.

As far as economic reform- industry really needs to be encouraged to move into Isan and not into the Current industrial areas of Rayong; Chonburi; and Bangkok-Samut Prakon. The red shirts exist for a reason and part of this reform has to be a reconciliation between the disparate groups. They have been hijacked by the Shin Group for their own selfish purposes but the current Junta plans on breaking that connection. The prior civilian governments couldn't or wouldn't do this. Too much money politics- which will no longer exist as part of the reforms.

I do not think the military government is perfect and without flaws, but its only chance for real change is what is happening now. No elected civilian government will make the changes. let's see if the General can make it happen.

This as been the nineteenth...NINETEENTH! Coup since the first one that implemented democracy way back in 1932. Those military regimes changed NOTHING i the grand scheme of things and the status quo remains very much the same. All the military are doing now in consolidating their power.

Stop drinking that kool aid!

[Thaidream]

Does anyone actually believe that a democratically elected government in Thailand will or could actually make all the reforms that need to be made; get rid of corruption; rid the Kingdom of the inequities and influence of wealthy figures and the Mafia and stop elections from being bought? Even in the United States, it is almost impossible to be elected unless one has the backing of the elite; their money and power. The General wants to change all of it through reforms. At least he is trying to do something that no other government has ever done. I do not think the military is incorruptible but I think over time an evolving ethos can be developed in Thailand to make the needed improvements.

One thing the General lacks is an ability to communicate his plans effectively but he does what he says he is going to do and that in itself is more refreshing than a politician who talks sweet; promises everything and gives the people nothing.

[Artisi]

actually, the General is doing exactly what he said he would do when he took power. He gave the police a chance to do their job. Now, since they are unable or unwilling to crack the huge mafia influence that permeates all of Thailand- he has ordered the Army to do it. While from a Western perspective this seems terrifying because of so many differences from our traditional interaction with government and police; it is not shocking to the Thai public. The average Thai or average Expat in Thailand will not be affected at all. Those Thai and Foreign mafia will be affected because life for them just got real complicated. If this was happening in any Western country- I would be shocked, but it is happening in Thailand which has operated for too long allowing the police to ignore those cases that it does not want to pursue and in effect allow influence; money; and corruption to run amok. If the military can break this power it will have done a great service to the average Thai person.

Expats have complained for years on this board about the very things that the General wants to correct and now when he moves- people are still complaining. Some say use Article 44 to reform the police. As one poster rightfully posts-it would take more than 10 years. It is also interesting to note that the new Constitution places a 5 year 'watch period' on the civilian government once in place so they cannot turn back the reforms. As someone who has been here a long time and seen many civilian and military governments- this current government is actually doing what it said it would do- reform .. If this reform works and powerful influence and corruption can be neutralized, the average person will have a future and the country will prosper. No one is going to come knocking on your door; awaken you in the middle of the night; and lock you in a Guantanamo like prison. Everyone knows who the Thai mafia is and everyone knows who the Foreign Mafia is that controls the entertainment industry in Bangkok; Pattaya and Phuket. They will get the knock on the door. Relax and sleep tight.

You really are in a dream. Astounding naivety. Your whole thesis is predicated on the Thai Army being itself corrupt-free. Which scandal shall I direct you to that proves otherwise?

You say "it is not shocking to the Thai public" - How do you arrive at that determination given that it is illegal for Thais to voice opposition? Are you really interpreting "forced silence" to be "acceptance"?

It would appear you know bugger all about Thai people, there is plenty of opposition and opinions voiced, it's just that Thai people are a little more subtle than the noisy keyboard farangs who frequent ThaiVisa.