NCPO grants police powers to military

[greenchair]

Love the analogy.

Claw enforcement ???

[sweatalot]

taking away power from police (the kind of RTP) and controlling them (the kind of RTP)

is not a bad thing

but of course watch for abuse

[phoenixdoglover]

The reform that will be in place after a civilian government is in power and the 5 year period passes is that the executive, legislative and judicial branches of government will actually run by the rule of law and not be influenced by power. money or corruption. All people will be treated the same. the rich and powerful will not be able to buy their way out of trouble or buy their way into power. The police will actually be reformed and do their job. A National budget will be approved and the actual budget be spent as allocated without 20-30% skimmed off the top. An educational system that works will be put into place which makes Thailand competitive in the World arena. The economy will improve and the income level of the average Thai will rise so its sons and daughters do not have to go into the entertainment industry to stay alive.

I do not think this will all happen overnight or in 5 years, but I believe that if the reforms that this government wants to make are put into practice- there is long term hope for the country. There is also planning for the expected and unexpected and the military believes it is most suited at this time in history to manage those changes.

As far as economic reform- industry really needs to be encouraged to move into Isan and not into the Current industrial areas of Rayong; Chonburi; and Bangkok-Samut Prakon. The red shirts exist for a reason and part of this reform has to be a reconciliation between the disparate groups. They have been hijacked by the Shin Group for their own selfish purposes but the current Junta plans on breaking that connection. The prior civilian governments couldn't or wouldn't do this. Too much money politics- which will no longer exist as part of the reforms.

I do not think the military government is perfect and without flaws, but its only chance for real change is what is happening now. No elected civilian government will make the changes. let's see if the General can make it happen.

I like your idealized vision of a future Thailand.

I do not agree that the Junta is pursuing that vision. I judge them by their actions more than their words.

For example, your vision is for a reformed Police. I agree that is necessary. However, I cannot identify any action by the Junta that is a reform of the RTP. If there were a serious proposal on the table to reform the RTP, this would be really big news. There is no such proposal that I am aware of.

Similarly, the only action I am aware of regarding the judicial system, is the forming of an Administrative Court as a division of the Supreme Court, and then appointment of judges by the Junta. I view this as a non-reform, and possibly an opportunity for further abuse of power. It is a grave mistake to take criminal trials to the Supreme Court level directly, as this eliminates proper due process for appeals.

Finally, if the reform agenda of the Junta was substantial, then we would be hearing something meaningful from the National Reform Steering Assembly, which should have the clearest view of the reform actions. Just this past week, the NRSA announced they are still working their way through reform ideas. In other words, there is no defined reform plan.

[Thaidream]

I know plenty about Thailand and its people and I know and understand how they do or do not express opinions. All of my Thai friends have doubts but are willing to give the Junta a chance- something that many people on this board will not do. I am well aware of how many coups there have been here as I have been here during many of them dating back to the 1960s. All of them have failed to make needed changes just as the elected governments have failed. History will determine if this government will succeed- but I for one will give them a chance and my wish that they make a positive change for the country.

[Baerboxer]

So does this mean I can go get a soldier to arrest a cop for trying to make me pay a bribe?

This country is slipping further away from freedom of its people and soon, will affect its tourism dollars if it continues.

Yu'p sure can, But it'll cost ya 400 bath for the soldier rather than the 200 bath for the cop, Now that's progress huh.

And where are the TVF fanboy's of this mob? conveniently quiet yet again when there is a story like this. Difficult to justify this as well huh fella's...

Well Aussie, you try and bribe a soldier. Do let us know how you get on.

The military have been accompanying police on various activities since taking over the government. I remember them coming round at Loy Kratong. Most of the police were their usual friendly selves, talking to some of the people attending the show at the temple, nodding to others etc. The senior officers were grim faced and being marched around by a couple of army officers whilst several soldiers made their own patrol, again without cracking a smile.

Now they have been given the same powers as the police, but don't even have to bother with warrants, or having any particular evidence.

Never ever has policing by the military worked. Policing can only ever really work if it's by consent, officers follow the law, and are accountable to the citizens they serve. Soldiers are not trained police officers, and will in the most have little knowledge of the law - although that doesn't seem to matter here as a lot of police don't.

You can speculate on the reasons behind this: frustration at the police ineptness, lack of progress on certain cases, too much police involvement with certain political groups, too much police involvement with criminals or in criminal activities etc etc

But, this is the wrong solution. It's tantamount to admitting that sorting the police out is too big a task so it's easier to give police powers to soldiers and get them to do what you want.

I cannot think of any country where the military have successfully acted as police officers. Even in times of war, the police retain their role.

[scorecard]

Does anyone actually believe that a democratically elected government in Thailand will or could actually make all the reforms that need to be made; get rid of corruption; rid the Kingdom of the inequities and influence of wealthy figures and the Mafia and stop elections from being bought? Even in the United States, it is almost impossible to be elected unless one has the backing of the elite; their money and power. The General wants to change all of it through reforms. At least he is trying to do something that no other government has ever done. I do not think the military is incorruptible but I think over time an evolving ethos can be developed in Thailand to make the needed improvements.

One thing the General lacks is an ability to communicate his plans effectively but he does what he says he is going to do and that in itself is more refreshing than a politician who talks sweet; promises everything and gives the people nothing.

I wonder whether there's an additional point - the RTP have been left alone to give them the opportunity to reform themselves.

Has anything happened? No. Just a few examples: - the merc crash, the redbull incident, the 16 yrs old driver killed 9 people. The last two have years of history with nothing properly actioned / resolved. In the last week lots said by the police, lots of 'we will', 'we're going to' etc etc, but anything substantive.

Plus the Kao tao debarcled, plus daily reports of rogue police, police beat up 5 students and lots more.

Seems to me powerful folks still have control of the RTP.

Maybe this is a strategy to bypass a lot of the powerful forces and to ultimately force the RTP into a new picture?

I certainly hope so.

Edited March 31, 2016 by scorecard

[Baerboxer]

Is this the Georgia route? Will we see the useless police force completely disbanded as soon as the military feels comfortable in its new role?

I think it's a step towards the Syria route.

If you think it's anything like Syria then you clearly don't understand.

Going a "Georgia", sacking the lot and starting again would be great. But you'd also need to reform the Justice System and its Procedures, and look at some of laws and their wordings, revising, amending and replacing where necessary.

Too many VIP's - the rich, elite, hiso, influential people might not necessarily support that. They "system" works in their favor as it is.

Too many influential families have made sure they have family members in high police roles to look after their interests.

That's before you start to include the political and criminal influences.

It would take some serious clout to make those sort of changes - and all the vested interested parties are going to try and block it.

Since the Junta took over, their have been cases involving hiso connected rich people that have gone nowhere or been glossed over with token wrist slaps. Just as there were in all the previous civilian governments.

Until this all are equal but some are more equal and above the laws attitude changes and is demonstrably seen to be changed in the way things are implemented then nothing will really change.

So it appears easier to simply give police powers and more to soldiers who will follow orders and do as told rather than sorting the police out.

[Benmart]

Why is everyone surprised?

I've not spoken to "everyone", therefore I am unable to answer the rhetorical question. I only know what "I" feel.

[scorecard]

I know plenty about Thailand and its people and I know and understand how they do or do not express opinions. All of my Thai friends have doubts but are willing to give the Junta a chance- something that many people on this board will not do. I am well aware of how many coups there have been here as I have been here during many of them dating back to the 1960s. All of them have failed to make needed changes just as the elected governments have failed. History will determine if this government will succeed- but I for one will give them a chance and my wish that they make a positive change for the country.

Agree with your comments.

IMHO there's another point worth adding: sure there have been many coups in the past, some very violent but in reality many didn't try at all (violent or non-violent) to gain reforms. This government (with all it's faults, and overall it's taking too long) is at least trying.

[dageurreotype]

Standard Thai Visa responses out in force I see.

We've had Hitler mentioned and comments about how scary it is getting but we are still missing a "so it begins".

I think it's a bit early for you all to start wetting your panties over this.

How long have you guys been predicting the end of freedom here?

Has life changed fundamentally since the coup? Nope. Are you able to still comment about the government here? Absolutely yes

Take a chill pill.

And on the flip side of the coin, there is the standard Thaivisa 'Doesn't affect me, and quite frankly who really gives a crap about what happens to anyone else' response above.

I dunno, all these pinko poofters bleating on about warrants, charges and evidence. What is the matter with these clowns, eh? Probably closet ISIS if you ask me...

I've been fervently anti junta since the grab BUT these are indeed the usual TV responses (end of the world as we know it) and having just been through the wringer for the past five years with what passes for any 'judicial processes' here, I frankly couldn't give a shit AND I in no way delude myself that the Thai people themselves haven't been dealt the same dirty hand. A Thai friend told me 20 years ago 'Perhaps, given the culture here, it's better the military simply stay in power'. The time for 'revolutions' has gone, if there were any passion for one, so they'll just have to put up with that which they've allowed to evolve, with their quiet acquiescence, for decades. It's not as though an army stepped in and took over a functioning democracy, a la a first world government, was it Remember where you are.

Edited March 31, 2016 by dageurreotype

[sjaak327]

Hardly surprising. It has nothing to do with rooting out crime and corruption, it is all about maintaining power, a key ingredient to this will be the acceptance of the charter.

A charter that will ensure the 'good people' remain in power with an elected government that is only window dressing.

At least, if that charter does get accepted, a coup is no longer needed, there are several provisions in that charter to take control in case of a political conflict or deadlock. The electorate does not count, they too are window dressing.

Edited March 31, 2016 by sjaak327

[Throatwobbler]

Some people have voiced opposition to the new charter. All of a sudden the army gives itself sweeping powers to arrest anyone it wants without warrants. Not rocket science to work out who the army will be paying a visit. It's not going to be any mafia guys.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Throatwobbler

[dageurreotype]

Hardly surprising. It has nothing to do with rooting out crime and corruption, it is all about maintaining power, a key ingredient to this will be the acceptance of the charter.

A charter that will ensure the 'good people' remain in power with a elected government that is only window dressing.

Whilst I agree with the thrust of your post it's interesting to note that prostitution has been mentioned twice in the BP published 'to do' list. Perhaps that may sway a not insignificant number of posters on here to relocate to the 'chicken farms' of Cambodia? Doubt the Burmese or Malaysian women are quite so accommodating

[Lupatria]

Don't forget, it's already a reason to get arrested if you think different:

Prayut plans to design his own course for politicians:

Army chief General Teerachai Nakwanich said:

"We will keep them with us for a long time. Our soldiers understand things much better than them. The country is going well and people live in peace. If they do not know how to think, they will be trained,"

[Brer Fox]

I exercise my right to self-censorship. Posting my personal view regarding this topic may be bad for my health. I guess that sums it all up - really....

Smart move. You stand every chance of avoiding re-education.

[CantSpell]

Some people have voiced opposition to the new charter. All of a sudden the army gives itself sweeping powers to arrest anyone it wants without warrants. Not rocket science to work out who the army will be paying a visit. It's not going to be any mafia guys.

Aye, the PM just mentioned yesterday morning that he will stop been Mr. Nice Guy...

Same days in the evening, full power to the military...

Something must be amidst

Edited March 31, 2016 by CantSpell

[scorecard]

Some people have voiced opposition to the new charter. All of a sudden the army gives itself sweeping powers to arrest anyone it wants without warrants. Not rocket science to work out who the army will be paying a visit. It's not going to be any mafia guys.

"Some people have voiced opposition to the new charter. "

True, and note which group / color spoke up very quickly with lots of instant negative but with little substance.

Anybody surprised? Anything convinced the opposition was not ordered from abroad?

[mtls2005]

It's cute that so many Junta-huggers think this is about eliminating corruption.

[robertson468]

"...rooting out underworld influences and unduly “influential people” in the economy and society."

This is exactly what most people have been demanding for decades.

Using soldiers to arrest heavily-armed underworld groups and crime-bosses, is just basic common sense, because many serious gangsters have the kind of firepower that would put the lives of normal policemen and policewomen in danger.

So I will wait and see, I hope that they do break up underworld gangs, and apprehend the crime bosses.

I know I will be barbecued for writing this.

I am inclined to agree with you and add that the further problem is, there seems to be little trust in the Police taking strong and proactive action against these criminal elements and some even being in bed with them. A positive indicator in the future will be to see how many senior policemen end up being "transferred"?

[Scotwight]

Some people have voiced opposition to the new charter. All of a sudden the army gives itself sweeping powers to arrest anyone it wants without warrants. Not rocket science to work out who the army will be paying a visit. It's not going to be any mafia guys.

"Some people have voiced opposition to the new charter. "

True, and note which group / color spoke up very quickly with lots of instant negative but with little substance.

Anybody surprised? Anything convinced the opposition was not ordered from abroad?

Politicians from both sides of Thailand's political divide and human rights groups have opposed the draft, which includes clauses for a 250-member, fully appointed Senate that would be hand-picked by the junta, with six seats reserved for senior military officers and the national police chief.

http://townhall.com/news/politics-elections/2016/03/29/thailands-new-draft-charter-makes-auspiciously-timed-debut-n2140278

[MZurf]

I think there are a few people here that don't realise just how deep this problem is in Thailand or they are part of it, either way there is a criminal corrupt organised devisive element in this country and it is getting worse, if the current administration feel the need to invoke special powers to deal with it then they get no argument from me, it happens everywhere in the world when a problem gets so serious, USA UK do it and watch what is going to happen in the EU over the next 12 months, just a few days ago 4 governors were removed from office, slowly but surely these people are being routed out and cleansed from Thai society for good - I hope it continues

Meanwhile, in the real world...

[kblaze]

You really are in a dream. Astounding naivety. Your whole thesis is predicated on the Thai Army being itself corrupt-free. Which scandal shall I direct you to that proves otherwise?

You say "it is not shocking to the Thai public" - How do you arrive at that determination given that it is illegal for Thais to voice opposition? Are you really interpreting "forced silence" to be "acceptance"?

It would appear you know bugger all about Thai people, there is plenty of opposition and opinions voiced, it's just that Thai people are a little more subtle than the noisy keyboard farangs who frequent ThaiVisa.

Sure people are grumbling to each other and behind closed doors, but it is absolutely illegal to be VOCAL with your opposition. Thus it is impossible to make judgments on mass opinion as you can only reference those YOU interact with.

I'm not going to respond to your "knowledge of Thai people" bait, because its all relative. There is always an expat that has been here longer, knows more.

[Eric Loh]

Astounding that few here still ask that this junta government be given a chance to proof themselves. Good lord, this junta government has been in power for almost 2 years and by the time election is held (?), they will outlast the tenure of Yingluck and even Ahbisit.

So far what progress have we made. Economic still in the doldrums, human right abuses increasing, more activists locked up for voicing their opinion, LM cases up, single gateway, a slightly better charter has been waylaid and in place a crooked charter, more unbridle powers to the military, military courts etc etc. Only the blind and the junta fanatics are keeping their faith in hoping the junta will suddenly wake up from their power dream and decided to heed the citizens concerns and well being.

nationmultimedia.com/national/Thailands-human-rights-record-a-significant-setba-30263188.html

[MZurf]

"...rooting out underworld influences and unduly “influential people” in the economy and society."

This is exactly what most people have been demanding for decades.

Using soldiers to arrest heavily-armed underworld groups and crime-bosses, is just basic common sense, because many serious gangsters have the kind of firepower that would put the lives of normal policemen and policewomen in danger.

So I will wait and see, I hope that they do break up underworld gangs, and apprehend the crime bosses.

I know I will be barbecued for writing this.

The other alternative, and in my opinion the correct one, would be to improve the police force and other investigation depts. Danger is what one should expect if signing to be a policeman anywhere and hardened gangsters don't just operate in Thailand. This move, imo, is just an excuse by the junta to have more power over the people. What's the next one, dismantling the judicial system and have all army tribunals?

although your idea is a sound one there is a major problem, what you are suggesting takes time - a very long time, probably talking 10+ years to even make a dent, the other problem is that soon we will have an elected government back in place and any ideas of wiping out corruption and the pursuit of reforms will be very quickly forgotten, greed and thieving will take over and the cycle will begin again

And the greed and thieving isn't happening with this current mob?

How is Prayuth any different to any coup leader before him?

Now there's a question I have asked the junta supporters numerous times but NONE of them have replied to it yet.

Wonder why!

Edited March 31, 2016 by MZurf

[MZurf]

I think there are a few people here that don't realise just how deep this problem is in Thailand or they are part of it, either way there is a criminal corrupt organised devisive element in this country and it is getting worse, if the current administration feel the need to invoke special powers to deal with it then they get no argument from me, it happens everywhere in the world when a problem gets so serious, USA UK do it and watch what is going to happen in the EU over the next 12 months, just a few days ago 4 governors were removed from office, slowly but surely these people are being routed out and cleansed from Thai society for good - I hope it continues

"I think there are a few people here that don't realise just how deep this problem is in Thailand..."

Yes, and they are the ones supporting the junta, spectacularly failing to grasp that the military is part of the problem, not the solution.

[Sealbash]

"...rooting out underworld influences and unduly “influential people” in the economy and society."

This is exactly what most people have been demanding for decades.

Using soldiers to arrest heavily-armed underworld groups and crime-bosses, is just basic common sense, because many serious gangsters have the kind of firepower that would put the lives of normal policemen and policewomen in danger.

So I will wait and see, I hope that they do break up underworld gangs, and apprehend the crime bosses.

I know I will be barbecued for writing this.

The other alternative, and in my opinion the correct one, would be to improve the police force and other investigation depts. Danger is what one should expect if signing to be a policeman anywhere and hardened gangsters don't just operate in Thailand. This move, imo, is just an excuse by the junta to have more power over the people. What's the next one, dismantling the judicial system and have all army tribunals?

Yes, using military courts is the next step. When people are arrested without warrants and based on nothing but the granted power of arrest, than the only choice for prosecution is a court with fewer protections for the defendant. Military courts should do fine.

And some people will see nothing wrong with this. Sigh.

And the existing judicial system is transparent without corruption?

[Brer Fox]

Some people have voiced opposition to the new charter. All of a sudden the army gives itself sweeping powers to arrest anyone it wants without warrants. Not rocket science to work out who the army will be paying a visit. It's not going to be any mafia guys.

Aye, the PM just mentioned yesterday morning that he will stop been Mr. Nice Guy...

Same days in the evening, full power to the military...

Something must be amidst

This power is needed to put a stop naughty dancing at the car shows.

[Eric Loh]

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Thailands-human-rights-record-a-significant-setba-30263188.html

[sgtsabai]

Hey just1voice, I see your bridge and up you one bridge. It goes from Los Angeles to Bangkok and by reading some of the stupid, oops I meant misinformed, poorly educated, lovers of authority, and blind fools posting on here, neither one of us should have trouble selling our bridges. My wife's village is NOT red shirt (not yellow either) has been occupied territory for about 3 weeks. Apparently the nice young soldiers are just not very friendly as nobody knows why in the hell they are occupying the village. Well it is Issan so maybe "just because". Look for these discussions on TV to be shut down very shortly as those pesky aliens keep talking about freedoms and all those things that we know the people don't really want or need. As my hero (released me from the Nixon regime jail) said: "As darkness does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances there's twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is such twilight that we must beware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness" Justice William O. Douglas I would suggest the twilight time is rapidly fading and darkness is almost here.

[MZurf]

The reform that will be in place after a civilian government is in power and the 5 year period passes is that the executive, legislative and judicial branches of government will actually run by the rule of law and not be influenced by power. money or corruption. All people will be treated the same. the rich and powerful will not be able to buy their way out of trouble or buy their way into power. The police will actually be reformed and do their job. A National budget will be approved and the actual budget be spent as allocated without 20-30% skimmed off the top. An educational system that works will be put into place which makes Thailand competitive in the World arena. The economy will improve and the income level of the average Thai will rise so its sons and daughters do not have to go into the entertainment industry to stay alive.

I do not think this will all happen overnight or in 5 years, but I believe that if the reforms that this government wants to make are put into practice- there is long term hope for the country. There is also planning for the expected and unexpected and the military believes it is most suited at this time in history to manage those changes.

As far as economic reform- industry really needs to be encouraged to move into Isan and not into the Current industrial areas of Rayong; Chonburi; and Bangkok-Samut Prakon. The red shirts exist for a reason and part of this reform has to be a reconciliation between the disparate groups. They have been hijacked by the Shin Group for their own selfish purposes but the current Junta plans on breaking that connection. The prior civilian governments couldn't or wouldn't do this. Too much money politics- which will no longer exist as part of the reforms.

I do not think the military government is perfect and without flaws, but its only chance for real change is what is happening now. No elected civilian government will make the changes. let's see if the General can make it happen.

What a sweet, sweet dream.

"let's see if the General can make it happen."

After 19 coups and attempted coups where nothing was reformed what is it about the current junta leader that instills confidence in him?