http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/907702-academic-jobs/Academic jobs

[Morakot]

The reality is that in Thailand faculty appointments usually happen in two way:

• Internal candidate get sponsored by own institution to obtain a doctoral degree in North America or Western Europe (and sometimes Japan) and upon completion commences lectureship
• External candidate has recommendation and support from within applying institution.

Second fact, there is a severe shortage of faculty members with PhDs. Third fact, many international accreditation programmes that some Thai universities seek to obtain are expressively indifferent to country of origin (never mind a supposed "pecking order") of the research degree issuing institution.

I don't really understand why is that special only for Thailand. Except maybe that they NEED more PhDs, which is a contrast to other nations.

You must originate from an Asian or Latin American country. In North America and Western Europe faculty appointments are utterly different to the above described.

to

[LolaS]

The reality is that in Thailand faculty appointments usually happen in two way:

• Internal candidate get sponsored by own institution to obtain a doctoral degree in North America or Western Europe (and sometimes Japan) and upon completion commences lectureship
• External candidate has recommendation and support from within applying institution.

Second fact, there is a severe shortage of faculty members with PhDs. Third fact, many international accreditation programmes that some Thai universities seek to obtain are expressively indifferent to country of origin (never mind a supposed "pecking order") of the research degree issuing institution.

I don't really understand why is that special only for Thailand. Except maybe that they NEED more PhDs, which is a contrast to other nations.

You must originate from an Asian or Latin American country. In North America and Western Europe faculty appointments are utterly different to the above described.

to

I am from EU

[Morakot]

You must originate from an Asian or Latin American country. In North America and Western Europe faculty appointments are utterly different to the above described.

to

I am from EU

Nice! How does it work over there?

[LolaS]

You must originate from an Asian or Latin American country. In North America and Western Europe faculty appointments are utterly different to the above described.

to

I am from EU

Nice! How does it work over there?

same as here

[SheungWan]

^^ I think the OP has left the thread.

I doubt the 'status of the [foreign] academic institutions attended' would make a significant difference.

For a TEFL job probably not, but for a full-blown academic appointment, as significant as anywhere else.

The reality is that in Thailand faculty appointments usually happen in two way:

• Internal candidate get sponsored by own institution to obtain a doctoral degree in North America or Western Europe (and sometimes Japan) and upon completion commences lectureship
• External candidate has recommendation and support from within applying institution.

Second fact, there is a severe shortage of faculty members with PhDs. Third fact, many international accreditation programmes that some Thai universities seek to obtain are expressively indifferent to country of origin (never mind a supposed "pecking order") of the research degree issuing institution.

Finally, even in the UK for example, where the prestigiousness of the university is rather important for taught degrees (especially at undergraduate level), the situation is much more complex for research degrees. What often matters here is not some lofty reputation of the university, but what strength in terms of research culture did the department have, who was the supervisor, and so on.

We will have to agree to disagree as far as the significance of the institution on one's CV as far as S.E. Asia is concerned. Be that as it may, I really do think that someone with a science-based doctorate would be better off chasing a career in Hong Kong or Singapore rather than Thailand.

[LolaS]

The reality is that in Thailand faculty appointments usually happen in two way:

• Internal candidate get sponsored by own institution to obtain a doctoral degree in North America or Western Europe (and sometimes Japan) and upon completion commences lectureship
• External candidate has recommendation and support from within applying institution.

Second fact, there is a severe shortage of faculty members with PhDs. Third fact, many international accreditation programmes that some Thai universities seek to obtain are expressively indifferent to country of origin (never mind a supposed "pecking order") of the research degree issuing institution.

Finally, even in the UK for example, where the prestigiousness of the university is rather important for taught degrees (especially at undergraduate level), the situation is much more complex for research degrees. What often matters here is not some lofty reputation of the university, but what strength in terms of research culture did the department have, who was the supervisor, and so on.

We will have to agree to disagree as far as the significance of the institution on one's CV as far as S.E. Asia is concerned. Be that as it may, I really do think that someone with a science-based doctorate would be better off chasing a career in Hong Kong or Singapore rather than Thailand.

have you seen a job market at that places? It is almost impossible, just top scientist with good CV can get tenure positions there. its like saying, you will be better off chasing a career in Harvard or Yale

[Morakot]

I am from EU

Nice! How does it work over there?

same as here

So how does it work in Thailand?

[Morakot]

The reality is that in Thailand faculty appointments usually happen in two way:

• Internal candidate get sponsored by own institution to obtain a doctoral degree in North America or Western Europe (and sometimes Japan) and upon completion commences lectureship
• External candidate has recommendation and support from within applying institution.

Second fact, there is a severe shortage of faculty members with PhDs. Third fact, many international accreditation programmes that some Thai universities seek to obtain are expressively indifferent to country of origin (never mind a supposed "pecking order") of the research degree issuing institution.

Finally, even in the UK for example, where the prestigiousness of the university is rather important for taught degrees (especially at undergraduate level), the situation is much more complex for research degrees. What often matters here is not some lofty reputation of the university, but what strength in terms of research culture did the department have, who was the supervisor, and so on.

We will have to agree to disagree as far as the significance of the institution on one's CV as far as S.E. Asia is concerned.

Lets not talk in riddles!

Give a few examples of doctoral degree issuing institutions that on someone's CV would potentially secure a full-time faculty position in Thailand. Give another few examples of institutions that would very likely not endorse a candidate.

[SheungWan]

The reality is that in Thailand faculty appointments usually happen in two way:

• Internal candidate get sponsored by own institution to obtain a doctoral degree in North America or Western Europe (and sometimes Japan) and upon completion commences lectureship
• External candidate has recommendation and support from within applying institution.

Second fact, there is a severe shortage of faculty members with PhDs. Third fact, many international accreditation programmes that some Thai universities seek to obtain are expressively indifferent to country of origin (never mind a supposed "pecking order") of the research degree issuing institution.

Finally, even in the UK for example, where the prestigiousness of the university is rather important for taught degrees (especially at undergraduate level), the situation is much more complex for research degrees. What often matters here is not some lofty reputation of the university, but what strength in terms of research culture did the department have, who was the supervisor, and so on.

We will have to agree to disagree as far as the significance of the institution on one's CV as far as S.E. Asia is concerned. Be that as it may, I really do think that someone with a science-based doctorate would be better off chasing a career in Hong Kong or Singapore rather than Thailand.

have you seen a job market at that places? It is almost impossible, just top scientist with good CV can get tenure positions there. its like saying, you will be better off chasing a career in Harvard or Yale

A little bit over the top. It is worth having a look at jobs eg offered at Hong Kong Poly U. to see if there is a match up. Sometimes it is worth looking at one's specialism and be prepared to shift focus re subject area if that is what is required assuming the OP has hit too many brick walls. I notice that HK Poly U jobs currently advertised mostly offer fixed term contracts subject to subsequent review. The HE academic job market has never been that easy or at least not since the last century during the dot.com boom in the UK. As far as getting any form of employment is concerned I would still take HK over Thailand 9/10.

[SheungWan]

The reality is that in Thailand faculty appointments usually happen in two way:

• Internal candidate get sponsored by own institution to obtain a doctoral degree in North America or Western Europe (and sometimes Japan) and upon completion commences lectureship
• External candidate has recommendation and support from within applying institution.

Second fact, there is a severe shortage of faculty members with PhDs. Third fact, many international accreditation programmes that some Thai universities seek to obtain are expressively indifferent to country of origin (never mind a supposed "pecking order") of the research degree issuing institution.

Finally, even in the UK for example, where the prestigiousness of the university is rather important for taught degrees (especially at undergraduate level), the situation is much more complex for research degrees. What often matters here is not some lofty reputation of the university, but what strength in terms of research culture did the department have, who was the supervisor, and so on.

We will have to agree to disagree as far as the significance of the institution on one's CV as far as S.E. Asia is concerned.

Lets not talk in riddles!

Give a few examples of doctoral degree issuing institutions that on someone's CV would potentially secure a full-time faculty position in Thailand. Give another few examples of institutions that would very likely not endorse a candidate.

I wouldn't get too agitated about it. All I am suggesting is that someone, for example, with a qualification from Imperial College might find a few more doors opening than someone further down the pecking order. It is an edge which can come in useful in SE Asia which is very much status conscious. Rather naive to ask for institutions definitively applying such criteria. It doesn't work that way.

[muzmurray]

I just want to mention that Government of Thailand change requirement, and now everyone are required to have PhD ( maybe except part-time English lecturers)

I don't think the Office of Higher Eduction Commission's guidelines have changed. The requirement is to have have a relevant master degree.

However, in practice most research oriented universities will not offer faculty appointments to academics without a doctoral degree. Especially if they are participating in international accreditation schemes or try to pursue a research-based funding strategy.

It changed, new regulation. You need PhD to be a lecturer

Do you have a link to this "new regulation" ?

[Morakot]

All I am suggesting is that someone, for example, with a qualification from Imperial College might find a few more doors opening than someone further down the pecking order. It is an edge which can come in useful in SE Asia which is very much status conscious.

Thanks Wan! This is good; lets work with this. Yes Imperial we can say might be in the top 10 or 25 list of whatever.

Now I have run a quick survey on current full-time faculty appointments of non-Thai people (almost all "farang). This was purely done by looking at the website of Chulalongkorn University and Mahidol College of Management. I have chosen those institutions, by advancing the logic of prestigious places in Thailand: hence if these are the most "prestigious institutions" they will attract the best candidates. I have also used your logic of status consciousness and assume that the most visible profiles of researchers are the most "prestigious": hence I did merely a quick run of what can easily be seen. Some departments do not show staff profiles at all, others do not have any non-Thai facility members (especially many natural sciences).

Here the results of doctoral degree issuing institution of non-Thai full-time faculty:

**CMMU**

Columbia University

Erasmus University Rotterdam

Thammasat University

Vienna University of Economics and Business Administration

**Chula -FoArts**

University of Bologna (2x)

University of Bonn

University of Florence

University of Studies of Perugia

Utrecht University

**Chula -FoEcon**

Chulalongkorn University

University of Colorado

University of Toulouse

**Chula -FoPsy**

University of California

University of Melbourne

**Chula - CPS**

Vienna University of Economics and Business

**Chula - CPHS**

Columbus State University

Pavia University

University of Chicago

**Chula - PPC**

Chulalongkorn University

Analysis

While there are many very good universities. Most are not really any that we could easily place in the "top" table of various rankings that are constructed in media (i.e. "pecking order"). We also see a few local Thai universities. However, there are no dubious or utterly unknown places.

Overall, the range of doctoral degree issuing institution, seems similar if not below the standard of Thai academics.

Conclusions

While a reasonably well-known doctoral degree issuing institution seems beneficial, there must be something else that facilitates the success of securing a full-time faculty appointment.

Further research

Understanding the other factors beyond the general standards of merits.

[Morakot]

I really do think that someone with a science-based doctorate would be better off chasing a career in Hong Kong or Singapore rather than Thailand.

It is almost impossible, just top scientist with good CV can get tenure positions there. its like saying, you will be better off chasing a career in Harvard or Yale

Based on this logic, some universities in Hong Kong and Singapore must be of higher merits than Harvard or Yale.

I would invite the poster to consider other factors --beyond the merits of qualification-- that might be relevant to securing a position in East or Southeast Asia.

[LolaS]

I really do think that someone with a science-based doctorate would be better off chasing a career in Hong Kong or Singapore rather than Thailand.

It is almost impossible, just top scientist with good CV can get tenure positions there. its like saying, you will be better off chasing a career in Harvard or Yale

Based on this logic, some universities in Hong Kong and Singapore must be of higher merits than Harvard or Yale.

I would invite the poster to consider other factors --beyond the merits of qualification-- that might be relevant to securing a position in East or Southeast Asia.

I think OP, doesn't have a clue how to find academic job, which means he or she is from low tier university. if you dont have recommendation and clear idea what to do, it is sad.

[Morakot]

^^ Lola, I was talking to you not the OP.

[LolaS]

^^ Lola, I was talking to you not the OP.

you are talking to general, oversimplification and generalization of subject

[roadpeople]

Salaries in Thai universities are desperately low. No better than in schools. My suggestion would be to try for a job teaching in a Chinese university - China is currently opening several new universities each week and they are keen to hire foreign staff. Pay will be at least four times higher than in Thailand. Live in Thailand and commute to China. In four months of working in China you'll earn more than you would working for a year in Thailand and you'll have the time and money to travel in SE Asia. On top of this you may be able to secure a at a Thai university. I do one month a year for a Thai university and they pay me 100 000 THB.

May I know which universities offer this kind of 'visiting professorship'? Thanks

[HauptmannUK]

I have a visiting professorship at a university which is generally considered to be in the 'top ten' in Thailand. I basically got the role through knowing some of the staff. Many faculties have money to pay for guest/visiting lecturers and having a foreigner turn up and give some seminars etc is good PR and lends credibility.

As I mentioned previously, don't sell yourself too cheaply.

[Morakot]

I basically got the role through knowing some of the staff.

Thanks Hauptmann.

Other people please take note what the gentleman said!

[LolaS]

I asked my peers, the prices and payment that

HauptmannUK

mention are not true. for sitting in qualification exam or thesis defence, maximum payment is 1600 THB.

Visiting professors don't get more than 30 000, depending on workload.

My institution is in TOP 3

[HauptmannUK]

LolaS

You don't seem too bright for someone working in an academic role. Do you really think a Western academic is going to travel to Thailand and work for a month as a visiting prof for 30000THB (£600 or $900) ?!! Use a bit of common sense.

[LolaS]

LolaS

You don't seem too bright for someone working in an academic role. Do you really think a Western academic is going to travel to Thailand and work for a month as a visiting prof for 30000THB (£600 or $900) ?!! Use a bit of common sense.

Yes I think, 90% of them do it for minimal payment. Nobel winners speeches were paid 10 000 THB

[Morakot]

Some institutions give an allowance in addition to the basic salary for Western academics. This mean a total pay (p/m. before tax) of 100,000+ THB at associate professor level. The only real difference in "take-home" is that the annual pay rise is calculated form the base salary.

[LolaS]

raym5888 • 12 days ago

This is good advice, not only for Arts/Humanities PhDs. Most people have very little idea of how to get a job overseas or even think of it as a possibility. Australians are better off than Americans in that regard because going overseas as a PhD student or a post-doc is expected of you. From my 5 y experience as a post-doc in the US most Americans were too provincial to even understand why you would want to work overseas for a while. When I was a post-doc at Cornell one PhD student in Biochemistry & Molecular Biology was surprised that I spoke English quite fluently. In 2009 I won an Australian Government Endeavour Executive Award to go to Thailand and do some photosynthetic research with a colleague for 4 months. The Thais offered me a job without me asking. I told them I would think about it and went home. Back in Australia I was bullied for the last time by the dragon who had inherited my old bosses lab. I asked Prince Songkla University-Phuket if the offer was still open - yes it was. I took it and ran away to Thailand. I got tenure in 2 years. I am paid about 15% of what I would be paid for the same job in Australia but I have my own lab and they buy equipment for me and I have nice students and I publish papers in International journals. I am treated far better than I ever was in Australia, USA, Britain or Canada. I got my first real job in STEM at 57y and tenure at 59y and it was in Thailand not a western country. I am now 62y, my only complaint is I wish I had gone to SE Asia as a younger man. Note that I got my job by nomination: none of that Advertise-Apply-Shortlist-Interview-Appoint bullshit. In my career I applied for about 300 academic positions, well over 150 in the US. I got one rather miserable 3-year contract lectureship out of it in Australia and in the end I got job-described out of it becoming a tenured position.

ASEAN has a policy that all science subjects now have to be taught in English throughout SE Asia. The Thais have no interest in me learning Thai: that is not what they employ me for. Most of my Thai colleagues in the PSU science faculties have Australian PhDs with a few from the US, UK, Germany (PhD in English) and I know of one from Austria (PhD in English).

Go back to Australia? You would have to be joking.

excerpt: from chronicle http://chronicle.com/article/Why-New-Humanities-PhDs/2

raym5888 botrytisnightingale • 12 days ago

If you read my contribution you will learn that I am a tenured Assoc Prof in Thailand. I teach biology, mainly Plant Biology. I have been here for 5 years. I have no Thai wife or live in girlfriend and so I have not learnt any Thai. I use my knowledge of SE Asian history & Geography as a substitute. The university has no interest whatever in me learning Thai. It is ASEAN policy that all science courses have to be taught in English. The other two faculties on my campus are International Studies and Hospitality & Tourism - language of instruction is English. The quality of the English of course is another matter. They eagerly want me to publish papers with Thai colleagues and students in English. Few theses are written in Thai today. In a recent Masters class I taught I had one student from Bhuttan, one from Ghana, a Vietnamese, a Cambodian, an Indonesian and a sikh born in England. Total number of students 14. Some of the Thais came from the provinces and can barely understand metropolitan Thai. One and only one common language - English. The course topic - How to publish papers in international journals.

I have spent much of my life in research labs in Australia, Thailand, USA, Canada and Scotland. Typically 6 or more people in the lab. Usually I am the only native English speaker and often no two people share the same first language. I am a strict monolingual because foreign languages are virtually inaccessible to public school educated people in Australia. My parents were too poor to send me to a private highschool. In 40y of working in labs I have never come across a paper I needed translated.

Do not worry a stuff about languages. In SE Asia, at least, language is a non-issue.

You sometimes know only too well that the university keeps you as an exotic pet. There are special National Parks & Wildlife regulations in Thailand about keeping pet farangs - each faculty is allowed to have one pet farang who has tenure. .

[Usernames]

Thai universities are desperate for PhDs. Any PhDs. They'll even sponsor people for online PhD programs of a dubious nature. They only want the piece of paper. That's all that counts here. You can go to Mahidol and Chula and see people with suspect PhD credentials and NO research record whatsoever. The international colleges are even more desperate, taking people who walk through the doors if they speak passable English for their pre-college (in one instance) and full time faculty appointments. And also peppering their divisions with division chairmen and program directors who don't even have PhDs or research records.

[scorecard]

Thai universities are desperate for PhDs. Any PhDs. They'll even sponsor people for online PhD programs of a dubious nature. They only want the piece of paper. That's all that counts here. You can go to Mahidol and Chula and see people with suspect PhD credentials and NO research record whatsoever. The international colleges are even more desperate, taking people who walk through the doors if they speak passable English for their pre-college (in one instance) and full time faculty appointments. And also peppering their divisions with division chairmen and program directors who don't even have PhDs or research records.

I don't totally accept your very negative summation.

Just one point - pretty much all universities today have a mixture of:

1. - Ph,D. holders who never / almost never teach, they are devoted to research in many disciplines and do often have a long list of books published, papers accept by recognized international journals etc.

2. - Ph.D. holders who do a lot of teaching and quite a bit of professional research.

3. - Ph.D. holders who are not full time academics and are often retired business people (business and other professions), have never done any research and have no intention to start.

Do a survey of masters students in most universities and I suggest you will find most students perhaps almost all students prefer for many subjects to be taught by group 3 above.

[Morakot]

Do a survey of masters students in most universities and I suggest you will find most students perhaps almost all students prefer for many subjects to be taught by group 3 above.

New mini project for the summer semester? ...

[scorecard]

Do a survey of masters students in most universities and I suggest you will find most students perhaps almost all students prefer for many subjects to be taught by group 3 above.

New mini project for the summer semester? ...

If you do research this point please share.

[Usernames]

Thai universities are desperate for PhDs. Any PhDs. They'll even sponsor people for online PhD programs of a dubious nature. They only want the piece of paper. That's all that counts here. You can go to Mahidol and Chula and see people with suspect PhD credentials and NO research record whatsoever. The international colleges are even more desperate, taking people who walk through the doors if they speak passable English for their pre-college (in one instance) and full time faculty appointments. And also peppering their divisions with division chairmen and program directors who don't even have PhDs or research records.

I don't totally accept your very negative summation.

Just one point - pretty much all universities today have a mixture of:

1. - Ph,D. holders who never / almost never teach, they are devoted to research in many disciplines and do often have a long list of books published, papers accept by recognized international journals etc.

2. - Ph.D. holders who do a lot of teaching and quite a bit of professional research.

3. - Ph.D. holders who are not full time academics and are often retired business people (business and other professions), have never done any research and have no intention to start.

Do a survey of masters students in most universities and I suggest you will find most students perhaps almost all students prefer for many subjects to be taught by group 3 above.

As for number 3, I would say unlikely. At least from my perspective. And I've hired them, only to be deluged with student complaints about people telling "war stories," not knowing how to teach, and completely adrift in a classroom. Not to mention that research isn't separate from teaching, it's integral to it. Anybody in a classroom quite literally doesn't know what they're talking about if they don't keep current with the review of the literature in their field, which is the first stop in any research project. People who fail to do research in order to keep on the cutting edge of their field are the very definition of "dead wood."

[Morakot]

3. - Ph.D. holders who are not full time academics and are often retired business people (business and other professions), have never done any research and have no intention to start.

As for number 3, I would say unlikely. At least from my perspective. And I've hired them, only to be deluged with student complaints about people telling "war stories," not knowing how to teach, and completely adrift in a classroom. Not to mention that research isn't separate from teaching, it's integral to it. Anybody in a classroom quite literally doesn't know what they're talking about if they don't keep current with the review of the literature in their field, which is the first stop in any research project. People who fail to do research in order to keep on the cutting edge of their field are the very definition of "dead wood."

Slightly misses the point! "Scholarly practitioners" as they are sometimes referred to are active practitioners in their field and are very useful to give an applied and real-world perspective. They complement the views of "Scholarly academics", who are not necessarily practitioners themselves but primarily focus on research.

If these people are permanently going of topic or don't understand the wider current developments, HR skills and criteria need reviewing. Similarly, if they are deployed at introductory or elementary level, management needs to do some serious re-evaluating.