US activists try to calm fears over transgender bathroom access

[lannarebirth]

Perhaps, but I noticed the members that posted that falsehood have never publicly acknowledged their error, as I did about the photo.

So, yes, obviously that makes me the bigger man ... neener neener neener.

Chello . . . do you seriously hold a poorly photoshopped, doctored photo that anyone could see had been doctored to a he said, she said disputed about Bruce Jenner's current happiness as a drag queen based on disputes between a close friend's concern for him and those cashing in $$$ wise on his freak show circus appeal at the present time. The sad part is the poor guy is getting even more messed up and potentially ostracized by those pushing him a certain direction so they can stay relevant, make $$$ and cash in on the poor messed up dude.

The poor guy perhaps needs some real help, but these idiots are so caught up in attention and trying to cash in $$$ wise without actually doing any work I doubt any of them really have a clue what is up, what's goo for Bruce or what's bad for Bruce. You are so caught up in a personal agenda, you cannot decipher reality from fiction and what is good or bad for the poor guy.

Fact remains, you don't know how Bruce Jenner really feels right now or who is telling the truth, friends or those cashing in on him. Perhaps, he is telling different people different things so both camps are telling the truth. Lol, there is no mixed message with that photo. That is just more stupid Internet crap.

Bruce Jenner is a heterosexual male.

When he goes to play golf, he can wear trousers like the majority of golfing men & women.

He really has no place in women's locker rooms because of his sexual preference AND because, as a male, he can physically dominate 99.999% of the women on the planet.

Society does not need to take the risk.

F2M trans people are more than welcome in mens locker rooms at their own risk. Because they are taking a risk by doing so.

Bottom line is we don't not live in an equal society. A woman can squeeze a strange mans pec and it's ok. A man squeezes a strange woman's tits and he's on the sex offenders register.

This is the world in which we live.

Women are protected from physically stronger males and although it is unequal, it is the right thing.

What tee does he drive from?

[Puccini]

I was wondering the same but as Scott posted, this topic is not about what's-its-name. If I really wanted to know, I would start a new topic in Farang Pub, the ideal place for gossiping about would-be celebrities.

PS. Perhaps the sports forum would do as well. A man who has breast implants mimicking female mammaries, has been taking female hormones for years to attain femail features, but is holding on to his male genitals registers at a golf club as a man, uses the male locker room, then tees off as a woman, would this be acceptable in a women's golf tournament?

Edited May 17, 2016 by Puccini

[thaibeachlovers]

This link provides a wonderful primer in understanding the transgender situation. I have read here many people are simply in need of some education.

This 12 CARD display will get you there. I promise!

http://www.vox.com/2016/5/11/11655888/daily-show-north-carolina-bathrooms

Myth #1: Transgender people are confused or tricking others Myth #2: Sexual orientation is linked to gender identity

Myth #3: Letting trans people use the bathroom matching their gender identity is dangerous

Myth #4: Transitioning is as simple as one surgery

(and 8 more, please refer to link for full explanations)

This issue is NOTHING to do with transgender issues and is a stalking horse by certain parties to cause chaos in western society.

Unfortunately, a lot of people are so obsessed with gender issues that they can't see the bigger picture.

Does anyone really think it's important that men can use the female toilets when a female looking transgender person can use them without comment and a male looking transgender can use the stall in the male toilets if they can't use a urinal?

Some people obviously have too much time to waste if they are getting worked up about this non issue ( I have a lot of time to waste, but I'm hardly "worked up" about it ).

[Boon Mee]

Some people obviously have too much time to waste if they are getting worked up about this non issue ( I have a lot of time to waste, but I'm hardly "worked up" about it ).

Tell that to the parents of a little girl who gets confronted by a man in her bathroom.

Believe they get a little 'worked up' about it.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Boon Mee

[thaibeachlovers]

Some people obviously have too much time to waste if they are getting worked up about this non issue ( I have a lot of time to waste, but I'm hardly "worked up" about it ).

Tell that to the parents of a little girl who gets confronted by a man in her bathroom.

Believe they get a little 'worked up' about it.

You misunderstand me. I'm on your side.

I was referring to those that WANT a little girl to be confronted by a man in the female toilets.

[jak2002003]

Can people stop going on and on about some 'poor innocent little darling fragile angle little girl'.

What the hell is that little girl doing looking at peoples private parts anyway... and looking up trans people skirts ?!!!

Stop making up stick ideas in your head. That's not going to happen is it..... any more than the sweet little baby girl will be looking at women's private parts in the bathroom.

Why would a trans person go around flashing their privates in the wormen's restroom.... any more than you or your delicate fragile inferior women wife?

If you are talking about sex offenders... they are going to do that kind of stuff with our without trans people being allowed in the restroom... its a completely separate issue.

You are showing your ignorance and hatred for trans people by linking them with that... like saying all gays are child molesters.. or all blacks are rapists.

And all white men are drunk drug taking wife battering morons with a disturbing obsession with trans peoples sexual organs.

Edited May 20, 2016 by jak2002003

[arjunadawn]

This issue is NOTHING to do with transgender issues and is a stalking horse by certain parties to cause chaos in western society.

Unfortunately, a lot of people are so obsessed with gender issues that they can't see the bigger picture.

Does anyone really think it's important that men can use the female toilets when a female looking transgender person can use them without comment and a male looking transgender can use the stall in the male toilets if they can't use a urinal?

Some people obviously have too much time to waste if they are getting worked up about this non issue ( I have a lot of time to waste, but I'm hardly "worked up" about it ).

"Stalking Horse?" 100% correct!

This social debacle is about as contrived as imaginable. One more example of how the Progressive Machine constantly peddles identity politics to Balkanize America. In essence, insurgency. Fracture into innumerable constituent islands of special interests, victims, special rights, and equality in outcomes.

[Jingthing]

Funny, if this is a non-issue why have some states passed bigoted laws that explicitly force transgender people to use facilities other than they have been using for many years?

Somehow, it wasn't a problem (transgender people using the toilets matching their gender I.D. rather than their birth gender when they felt that was the best choice) before, but now it is.

Was there a toilet crime wave with transgender people acting as perpetrators? No, certainly not.

Was this manufactured? Yes, it was. By right wing, usually "Christian" in the WORST possible sense, anti-GLBT civil rights bigots who lost the marriage equality battle, are ANGRY about that, and found an emotional hot button angle where they could use their age old tricks of claiming it's about protecting the children, when it's really about protecting their bigotry and hate.

This kind of tactic by hateful bigots is really as old as the hills. Jews know all about that ... the lies being told over the centuries of Jews killing Christian children for their blood to make matzohs. Jews never did that ... and the painting of transgender Americans as being predators of children in toilets is similarly a big disgusting lie designed to foment the worst kinds of hatred.

Nobody is denying transgender Americans are a small minority group. But that doesn't mean it's OK for it to be open season on them by the right wing bigots.

What these bigot laws have done is to put transgender Americans, already a vulnerable population, subject to even more abuse, harassment, and even legal consequences for using the most logical facilities for their gender i.d./presentation. The people pushing these laws act like transgender people don't exist. Small numbers is not the same as no numbers.

Many millions of decent CIVIL RIGHTS loving Americans are standing up for transgender Americans. There is so much IGNORANCE about transgender people but happily the education is happening, and the rabid transphobia you see in these bigot toilet laws is going to be seen in future with the same disdain and shame that Jim Crow laws are now seen.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Jingthing

[Credo]

Recently there was a thread about the first person given a penis transplant HERE.

Since many of these maimed soldiers don't have a penis, must they use the women's restroom or should they be allowed to use the restroom which matches their gender identity, even though their equipment would dictate differently?

[thaibeachlovers]

Recently there was a thread about the first person given a penis transplant HERE.

Since many of these maimed soldiers don't have a penis, must they use the women's restroom or should they be allowed to use the restroom which matches their gender identity, even though their equipment would dictate differently?

??????

Gender identity is nothing to do with the physical genitalia. That is the crux of this whole dispute. A male pervert could just say that he identifies himself as a female, and under the new diktat be able to use the female toilets.

Currently, unless the transgender male actually looks female they can't use the female toilet, but how does one distinguish a pervert claiming to feel female from a genuine male looking transgender?

If/ when the first girl is murdered/ molested by a male legally in a female toilet, it will be on the PC brigade's shoulders.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed. Stay on topic or face a suspension. The thread isn't about bigamy.

[Jingthing]

Trevor Noah again:

http://www.advocate.com/transgender/2016/5/20/trevor-noah-goes-transgender-bathroom-predator-myth

Trevor Noah Goes Off on Transgender ‘Bathroom Predator’ Myth

The Comedy Central host referenced how various groups, such as gay men and black people, were discriminated against in restroom access at different points in history. "When you look at it now, that seems absurd," said Noah.

“Just imagine for a second being a 55-year-old trans woman and you’ve lived your entire life worried about bathrooms and locker rooms. The only thing trans people are saying right now is, ‘What took you guys so long? Because I feel like I’ve been holding it forever,'" said the Daily Show host as he ended his segment.

Edited May 21, 2016 by Jingthing

[jak2002003]

Recently there was a thread about the first person given a penis transplant HERE.

Since many of these maimed soldiers don't have a penis, must they use the women's restroom or should they be allowed to use the restroom which matches their gender identity, even though their equipment would dictate differently?

If/ when the first girl is murdered/ molested by a male legally in a female toilet, it will be on the PC brigade's shoulders.

Again, with the little girl fantasy!

If he murders / molests the girl illegally that is OK?

A trans person could SAVE the little girl and be a real hero.. and if they were not allowed in there the girl would have no help...

So when the first little girl is murdered / molested by that straight pervert because she was ALONE in there and the trans person was not allowed in... it will be on the ANTI TRANS brigade's shoulders!!!

[Jingthing]

Blame an entire class of people, when that class is a hated and misunderstood MINORITY, on the potential crimes of one or a few. Funny, when murderers are white heterosexual cisgender men, then, it's just about CRIMINALS.

To add, anyone who seriously wants to discuss the issues around transgender civil rights would do themselves a favor and accept the use of the word CISGENDER. "Normal" is meaningless. Normal what? Normal body temperature? Normal bowel movements. It conveys no specific meaning.

The crimes everyone is against -- violent assaults, rape, molestation, murder are ALREADY illegal in all 50 states.

Edited May 21, 2016 by Jingthing

[arjunadawn]

An earlier post lay the blame for the current bathroom debacle at the feet of christian right wingers. I read carefully that post and caught myself considering "He could be right. Perhaps I raced to blame the left."

I have no particular fondness for any religious militancy either. But then I recalled "No, this TV poster is so incorrect about christian right wingers causing this bathroom farce that it most be a mistake." And then I considered the tens of thousands of astute and timely posts this poster has and realized, this has got to be intentional disassembly. Its night and day. This problem was caused by militant LGBT activists!

This issue is 100% entirely caused by militant LGBT insinuation into local politics. In this case, it is suggested that Christians/right (presumably NC) offered a bill and by that act caused this issue to be born. Wrong! This issue is one more example of militant identity politics. Its either wrong or a lie, but it is not a third option.

Not all gays are militant. Not all lesbians are political. Not all transgenders have a pressing bathroom agenda. But there are certainly numerous LGBT militants that do not want equality, rather they want superiority. Even a topical evaluation of LGBT agenda history reveals an unwholesome militancy in some. One does not need to be gay to make the observation; one can equally just be the victim of their militancy- straight!

And so in Houston Texas in 2015 the popular gay mayor broadened her municipal mandate into acting her personal prerogatives upon the whole. Increasingly she began pushing militant gay affairs upon the entire population. Court cases, a retreat, her redoubts built up, she began the bathroom fiasco. Houston! Texas!

This is not a right wing issue. People on the right protesting their political rape is the actual issue. This is entirely contrived by the Progressive Machine that divides, balkanizes, and reduces Americans into little islands of fractured, lonely, victimized, isolated, voting blocs year after fractured year. This is "Identity Politics." It usually infects the polity in slow motion but because Americans are so attuned to their world this year we are witnessing in real time the typical anatomy of Progressive Insurgency.

[arjunadawn]

Normal?

Normal is not meaningless. In a world of relativity the first victim must be established reference points- what constitutes normal. This does not mean that what the whole perceives as normal for any issue, at any time, is always right or remains so. But it is the underlying militant aim of certain social activism/Progressivism- to render all former constructions of normal meaningless= nihlism- when slowly managing the limits of normal or abnormal grows tiresome and there is push back. We can see the fruit of these efforts everywhere these days! America is decocted into a sick broth without texture or substance= everything is normal.

The thing is, everything is not normal- anywhere in nature.

The landmark MMPI Minn Multiphasic Personality Inventory is based on the normal (mental) range of 500 people; it has been a standard for decades and while outdated evidences that treating pathology cannot begin without approximately 'normal.' Normal is always the first victim in America's culture war. Like it? Don't? Change normal by consensus, not isolation, militancy, and legislation; but suggesting it does not exist results in push back and incredulity.

This is why the DSM-IV/V MMPI, and 'normal' are being rendered meaningless. If you cannot make abnormal normal make normal meaningless.

Edited May 21, 2016 by arjunadawn

[Scotwight]

Can people stop going on and on about some 'poor innocent little darling fragile angle little girl'.

What the hell is that little girl doing looking at peoples private parts anyway... and looking up trans people skirts ?!!!

Stop making up stick ideas in your head. That's not going to happen is it..... any more than the sweet little baby girl will be looking at women's private parts in the bathroom.

Why would a trans person go around flashing their privates in the wormen's restroom.... any more than you or your delicate fragile inferior women wife?

If you are talking about sex offenders... they are going to do that kind of stuff with our without trans people being allowed in the restroom... its a completely separate issue.

You are showing your ignorance and hatred for trans people by linking them with that... like saying all gays are child molesters.. or all blacks are rapists.

And all white men are drunk drug taking wife battering morons with a disturbing obsession with trans peoples sexual organs.

The reason North Carolina bill was passed in the first place was the Charlotte City Council voted to impose a regulation requiring businesses to allow a man into a women’s restroom, shower, or locker room if they choose. I realize none of the pro men in women's locker rooms want to discuss this but it is what it is - not just restrooms but changing and shower and locker rooms too.

http://www.indyweek....ent?oid=5012711

Edited May 22, 2016 by Scotwight

[stander]

Now this makes perfect sense

[Jingthing]

An opinion piece emphasizing that the transgender bathroom issue really is a CIVIL RIGHTS matter, and with a historical context as well. To non-Americans, NAACP is a historic black civil rights organization so old they still used have the C for "colored" people.

http://forward.com/opinion/341188/first-they-came-for-the-transgender-people/?attribution=home-hero-item-text-3

And as North Carolina NAACP president Rev. Williams Barber II told The Washington Post , “This is not about bathrooms. It’s about whether or not you can codify hate and discrimination into the laws of the state.”

Put this in the context of an election season in which the presumptive Republican presidential candidate is winning off unabashed white nationalism. People call for blood at his rallies, the same way supporters of the bathroom bill brag about how they’ll beat up or shoot LGBT people in the next toilet stall.

These people are playing for real, and we need to understand that. Their persecution of LGBT people won’t stop at just bathrooms. And it won’t stop with LGBT people, either.

[bentfarang]

Too bad the anti-GLBT bigot N.C. governor can't stand for reelection right now. Somehow I think the voters of his state won't be pleased with the massive amount of federal funds his state will be losing by insisting on their HATE law. Maybe these southern states that insist on these BIGOT laws want to secede from the UNION again?

Or maybe people are just tired of special interest groups trying to force their agenda onto everyone else? Wow, maybe that's what you're missing.

Unfortunately, your comments are typical of special interest groups....if a person doesn't agree with your agenda, then that person is somehow flawed. BS.

So if transgender people use bathrooms of their choice... their new gender so to speak... what is the situation with sports locker rooms? Reason I ask is... how exactly does all this impact sport ingeneral then? If we day you are now no longer the gender of your borth does that mean I could be born male, play a sport fairly well as a man ... become transgender and then compete against women? Where are we permitted to draw the line exactly?

[Jingthing]

There is precedent for transgender people playing in sports. The gender rules for that are probably a work in progress. There's a difference between school sports where there are federal funds and commercial sports.

[lannarebirth]

There is precedent for transgender people playing in sports. The gender rules for that are probably a work in progress. There's a difference between school sports where there are federal funds and commercial sports.

Let's say you were once the world's greatest male athlete. Now you "identify" as a woman. You continue to play sports but not for a school nor professionally. Is it fair to other women if you compete as a woman, knowing that physically, men are bigger, faster, stronger than women at just about any sport you could name.

I remember Renee Richards competed on the women's professional tennis circuit, and that took a court ruling for her to do so. She underwent gender reassignment surgery as I recall and it was not merely an "identity" or feeling for her. It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out in court.

[up2u2]

In International sports an athletes Testosterone level must be within certain limits. A 'female' athlete with high testosterone levels are excluded from competition.

A transgender athlete would have to ensure that their hormone levels are consistent with a females hormone levels.

[lannarebirth]

In International sports an athletes Testosterone level must be within certain limits. A 'female' athlete with high testosterone levels are excluded from competition.

A transgender athlete would have to ensure that their hormone levels are consistent with a females hormone levels.

Right. Feed a 53 year old Michael Jordan some female hormones and he's still going to skunk the top 3 players in the WNBA in a 1 on 3 basketball game. Take a 7' 6" Yao Ming and give him some female hormones and he's going to block every shot, get every rebound, and dunk at will against a WBNA championship team.

[up2u2]

In International sports an athletes Testosterone level must be within certain limits. A 'female' athlete with high testosterone levels are excluded from competition.

A transgender athlete would have to ensure that their hormone levels are consistent with a females hormone levels.

Right. Feed a 53 year old Michael Jordan some female hormones and he's still going to skunk the top 3 players in the WNBA in a 1 on 3 basketball game. Take a 7' 6" Yao Ming and give him some female hormones and he's going to block every shot, get every rebound, and dunk at will against a WBNA championship team.

It would be interesting to see how a 53 year old Michael Jordan will perform with lost muscle mass and breasts on the basketball court. Not too good I would suspect. Same for the new Ms Yao Ming.

[Jingthing]

The topic here isn't transgender people in sports.

[up2u2]

The topic here isn't transgender people in sports.

But the line of thought certainly highlights the complete misunderstanding of transgender physiology. If you don't understand the basics of transgender / sexuality / gender identity / human rights / minority rights then your up the creek without a paddle in forming an intelligent position on the subject as this thread demonstrates perfectly.

[Jingthing]

True. There indeed is much ignorance and irrational hostility toward transgender people.

[Dagnabbit]

The topic here isn't transgender people in sports.

Aaah - Jingthing - the 'topic policeman' strikes again.

Is it just you or do all liberals attempt to tell people what they can and cannot say?

[Scott]

The topic here isn't transgender people in sports.

Aaah - Jingthing - the 'topic policeman' strikes again.

Is it just you or do all liberals attempt to tell people what they can and cannot say?

OK. The topic here isn't transgender people in sports.

Please try to make every effort to stay on topic.