New recruit beaten to death as draft season begins

[Baerboxer]

Being beaten to death is of course totally unacceptable and those responsible should go to prison for life.

That said, allow me to make a few observations that many will want to bite at. I was a young squaddie circa 1974 and was knocked around by the senior guys quite often. It was "all part of it" and I was forewarned, my older brother received the same treatment back in '64. I took redundancy as a Warrant Officer Physical Training Instructor. in '93 when it all started to get PC and silly. Being a soldier is a tough life, it's no place for wimps. Even in the changed British Army, there are probably 'rough' things that go on behind closed doors. When you're faced by an enemy ready to cut your ba**s off, those days of being a 'sprog' and getting some rough and tumble can actually serve to help you through the rough and scary times.

It can't have been that bad as I still miss those hardy days, but as always one man's meat......

There is a big difference between training designed to instill physical and mental toughness and illegal assault.

The British Army still has several unsatisfactory unresolved cases of recruit deaths at Deepcut etc which keep bubbling up despite efforts to make them simply fade away. Or perhaps remember the notorious Captain Amber case where some responsible did get punished?

Wellington's army allowed flogging. Education, society and culture have all moved on from there. Even during the first half of the last century, where class division and it's inherent wide educational difference allowed for more discretion and flexibility of the rule book in such matters, out and out thuggery, criminal assaults based on personal matters and murder were never tolerated.

Whilst "milling", hard training regimes, tough discipline, and breaking and rebuilding to create strong ties and team loyalties are necessary, as are personal development, leadership and educational development there is no room for bullying and assault.

Beastings are part of a new recruits induction. Beatings aren't.

[Baerboxer]

and these animals are running the country?

Don't think the several people who carried out this assault are running the country, any more than those who threw grenades that killed children were running it under the last government.

What will be pertinent is to see how this is handled.

[jerojero]

Hey! It's just occasional brutality. What's the fuss?

[freebyrd]

Being beaten to death is of course totally unacceptable and those responsible should go to prison for life.

That said, allow me to make a few observations that many will want to bite at. I was a young squaddie circa 1974 and was knocked around by the senior guys quite often. It was "all part of it" and I was forewarned, my older brother received the same treatment back in '64. I took redundancy as a Warrant Officer Physical Training Instructor. in '93 when it all started to get PC and silly. Being a soldier is a tough life, it's no place for wimps. Even in the changed British Army, there are probably 'rough' things that go on behind closed doors. When you're faced by an enemy ready to cut your ba**s off, those days of being a 'sprog' and getting some rough and tumble can actually serve to help you through the rough and scary times.

It can't have been that bad as I still miss those hardy days, but as always one man's meat......

The difference is that this here and now in Thailand, and you're still alive to tell your story!

Read line one of my last post again - Being beaten to death is of course totally unacceptable and those responsible should go to prison for life.

I'm simply filling in a few blanks for those who have never served as a soldier.

[freebyrd]

Being beaten to death is of course totally unacceptable and those responsible should go to prison for life.

That said, allow me to make a few observations that many will want to bite at. I was a young squaddie circa 1974 and was knocked around by the senior guys quite often. It was "all part of it" and I was forewarned, my older brother received the same treatment back in '64. I took redundancy as a Warrant Officer Physical Training Instructor. in '93 when it all started to get PC and silly. Being a soldier is a tough life, it's no place for wimps. Even in the changed British Army, there are probably 'rough' things that go on behind closed doors. When you're faced by an enemy ready to cut your ba**s off, those days of being a 'sprog' and getting some rough and tumble can actually serve to help you through the rough and scary times.

It can't have been that bad as I still miss those hardy days, but as always one man's meat......

There is a big difference between training designed to instill physical and mental toughness and illegal assault.

The British Army still has several unsatisfactory unresolved cases of recruit deaths at Deepcut etc which keep bubbling up despite efforts to make them simply fade away. Or perhaps remember the notorious Captain Amber case where some responsible did get punished?

Wellington's army allowed flogging. Education, society and culture have all moved on from there. Even during the first half of the last century, where class division and it's inherent wide educational difference allowed for more discretion and flexibility of the rule book in such matters, out and out thuggery, criminal assaults based on personal matters and murder were never tolerated.

Whilst "milling", hard training regimes, tough discipline, and breaking and rebuilding to create strong ties and team loyalties are necessary, as are personal development, leadership and educational development there is no room for bullying and assault.

Beastings are part of a new recruits induction. Beatings aren't.

Read line one of my last post again - Being beaten to death is of course totally unacceptable and those responsible should go to prison for life.

I'm simply filling in a few blanks for those who have never served as a soldier.

[Tom Cahill]

"after he engaged in a quarrel with the sergeant."

I am not saying that the kid should have died BUT as a former military member and seeing the attitudes of some of the young people today I can see where if the sergeant was attacked the kid could get himself in a lot of trouble.

I would like to know more about this before I blame the military.

words like torture are used to freely these days and there could be a legitimate reason that he was injured.

Think Baltimore if you listen to just one side a kid put his hands p and surrendered. Then the truth came out.

Just saying

On the face of it I agree with you, but there's more. The other day someone got murdered in the prison, or at least that's what it's being called. Five people allegedly did it and got locked up and are looking at doing long stretches as a result of it. They were prisoner guards. One of whom was due to be released in two days following the night of the incident. Someone who was in the next cell told me that they had heard the wall being smashed with what seemed like someone's head. There were five distinct bouts of violence with gaps between them. They seemed quite shocked about there being a death and were very annoyed and sad about it, but you have to ask how this can happen, especially when the room's full of other people to tell them to pack it in and the story is the man was just making a bit of noise and wouldn't go to bed and be quiet.

It seems to me that whilst it's not hard to accidentally kill someone, if you're totally careless, the relaity is, people will blame you as though this is not really a factor. Thais are considered to be totally careless, and people have no sympathy for them so when these things happen---made worse by the fact that they're generally over absolutely nothing---there's a pre-set presumption of idiocy, irresponsibility and lack of the attackers' self worth behind it.

[GAZZPA]

They cracked down on hazing in the universities and technical schools but they seem to have overlooked the armies own hazing problems. I hope the parents take action that makes the gov liable for this.

This government is not liable for anything. They are beyond reproach.

It's sad, it's disgusting but I fear truth in what you say. I still find it unthinkable that people can do such things and the authorities, the people whom the population rely on for protection and justice do nothing.

When will this country ever grow up? Not sure how much more I can risk living here. I like many are fearing that we are not protected by anything.

I hope that the family get justice, not a pay day but real justice.

RIP, what a waste of life.

[Alwyn]

and these animals are running the country?

Don't think the several people who carried out this assault are running the country, any more than those who threw grenades that killed children were running it under the last government.

What will be pertinent is to see how this is handled.

Assault? you mean murder. The army are running the country and the army killed this kid.

[dunroaming]

Another stupid so called tradition imported from the west. I htink even in the USA where it originated it has been toned down, at least on campus.

[Suradit69]

Another committee and more assurances about punishments etc.

Now let's wait and see what, if anything, happens or even if it gets reported.

Being a recruit/draftee is harzardous even in the Surrey part of farang land.

Pirbright is only four miles from Deepcut, where four soldiers died between 1995 and 2002 amid claims of bullying and abuse.

Privates Cheryl James, Sean Benton, James Collinson and Geoff Gray all sustained gunshot wounds.

And three SAS hopefuls, James Dunsby, Edward Maher and Craig Roberts, died in 2013 during a training march in the Brecon Beacons in temperatures of 27C.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/female-army-recruit-dies-during-6462228

And you can bet the "investigation" amounted to a whole lot of nothing. The army investigating the army. Good luck.

The Army has now launched an investigation into the tragedy, which happened at the Pirbright Army Training Centre in Surrey.

[soalbundy]

mobbing with a violent touch, it got out of control. It wasn't murder,that suggests premeditation and in all likely hood he wasn't supposed to die. Like so many things in Thailand 'it just happened'

[Mister Fixit]

Yeah, there's a word for it in the British Army too- Deepcut.

[Mister Fixit]

Being a recruit/draftee is harzardous even in the Surrey part of farang land.

Pirbright is only four miles from Deepcut, where four soldiers died between 1995 and 2002 amid claims of bullying and abuse.

Privates Cheryl James, Sean Benton, James Collinson and Geoff Gray all sustained gunshot wounds.

And three SAS hopefuls, James Dunsby, Edward Maher and Craig Roberts, died in 2013 during a training march in the Brecon Beacons in temperatures of 27C.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/female-army-recruit-dies-during-6462228

And you can bet the "investigation" amounted to a whole lot of nothing. The army investigating the army. Good luck.

The Army has now launched an investigation into the tragedy, which happened at the Pirbright Army Training Centre in Surrey.

The 'Surrey part of 'farangland' that you so disparagingly call it is actually the county of Surrey - like a changwat in Thailand.

There are a number of Army camps in the area and Deepcut Barracks is one of them. There were only 4 incidents in 7 years, and one particular drill instructor was supposedly implicated in all of them. Nothing was ever done about him, but it was an open secret who he was and that he was a pathetic bully-boy. Also, the British Army is as notorious as the Thai Army for cover-ups.

And please don't post ancient links to incidents which have been over for between 21 and 14 years. Nothing new at all.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Mister Fixit

[dcnx]

Poor kid. Though, can't say I'm surpised.

I'm sure the PM will personally look into it and heads will roll. (That was sarcasm)

[MaxLee]

Well you have a former army general as a PM, I guess after that Meechai Fiasko yesterday, all students that protested will be invited to that Southern military camp for an EXTREME deadly attitude adjustments like this one,..... wanna bet????

Summoned, huh???? 500-1000 THB for the drill sergant, a friendly pat on the shoulder, and business as usual, and a manhunt for the people who filmed it and published it on facebook (which I can't post here due to forum rules)

[joebrown]

Another committee and more assurances about punishments etc.

Now let's wait and see what, if anything, happens or even if it gets reported.

Being a recruit/draftee is harzardous even in the Surrey part of farang land.

Pirbright is only four miles from Deepcut, where four soldiers died between 1995 and 2002 amid claims of bullying and abuse.

Privates Cheryl James, Sean Benton, James Collinson and Geoff Gray all sustained gunshot wounds.

And three SAS hopefuls, James Dunsby, Edward Maher and Craig Roberts, died in 2013 during a training march in the Brecon Beacons in temperatures of 27C.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/female-army-recruit-dies-during-6462228

And you can bet the "investigation" amounted to a whole lot of nothing. The army investigating the army. Good luck.

The Army has now launched an investigation into the tragedy, which happened at the Pirbright Army Training Centre in Surrey.

Why is it that in nearly all your posts on news in Thailand you are unable to relate directly to the 'here and now'. All you ever do in these situations is quote old news from the UK/USA which you use to justify your post. Isn't it about time you 'changed the record', and tried something new like being constructive?

[Confuscious]

Probe ordered by the 4th army region into the death of a conscript

BANGKOK: -- A fact-finding committee has been set up to investigate the death of a conscript who was allegedly tortured and beaten up to death by his immediate superiors.

Colonel Yutthana Petmuang, deputy spokesman of the forward command of the 4th region Internal Security Operations Command, said Monday that the case had already been reported to commander of the 4th army region, Lt-Gen Vivath Pathompark.

Parents of the victim, 23-year old Songtham Moodmud, have cried foul against their son’s death. They claimed that their son was tortured and badly beaten up by a drill sergeant and five other officers after he engaged in a quarrel with the sergeant.

The victim was taken to a hospital in Yala province with multiple and internal injuries. He was later declared dead.

Colonel Yutthana said Lt-Col Somkid Kongthon, commander of the 152th infantry battalion, Payak barrack in Bannang Sata district where the victim was attached to would be summoned for questioning regarding the tragic incident.

He assured that if the allegations were proven to be true, all the culprits would receive the highest penalties.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/content/158168

-- Thai PBS 2016-04-05

Moved to a not active post?

[tominbkk]

Welcome to the army!

[Confuscious]

Probe ordered by the 4th army region into the death of a conscript

BANGKOK: -- A fact-finding committee has been set up to investigate the death of a conscript who was allegedly tortured and beaten up to death by his immediate superiors.

Colonel Yutthana Petmuang, deputy spokesman of the forward command of the 4th region Internal Security Operations Command, said Monday that the case had already been reported to commander of the 4th army region, Lt-Gen Vivath Pathompark.

Parents of the victim, 23-year old Songtham Moodmud, have cried foul against their son’s death. They claimed that their son was tortured and badly beaten up by a drill sergeant and five other officers after he engaged in a quarrel with the sergeant.

The victim was taken to a hospital in Yala province with multiple and internal injuries. He was later declared dead.

Colonel Yutthana said Lt-Col Somkid Kongthon, commander of the 152th infantry battalion, Payak barrack in Bannang Sata district where the victim was attached to would be summoned for questioning regarding the tragic incident.

He assured that if the allegations were proven to be true, all the culprits would receive the highest penalties.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/content/158168

-- Thai PBS 2016-04-05

What a wonderful feeling it must be for the parents to see your child, a child which you nurtured every day during 18 years, a child which you give the best Medical help and school, a child on witch you put your hope for a bright future, being beat and killed by a few Military Officers who have total impunity.

Is that 1 of the 12 prescripts of being a "good Thai"?

[Lupatria]

Sounds like a 'code red' - see the movie called "A Few Good Men"

Do the Thais have a Sgt.Hartman equivalent?

Maybe you find an answer here:

YouTube "คลิปเฟสบุ๊ค"v2

April 5 at 7:20pm ·

[oldsailor35]

Being beaten to death is of course totally unacceptable and those responsible should go to prison for life.

That said, allow me to make a few observations that many will want to bite at. I was a young squaddie circa 1974 and was knocked around by the senior guys quite often. It was "all part of it" and I was forewarned, my older brother received the same treatment back in '64. I took redundancy as a Warrant Officer Physical Training Instructor. in '93 when it all started to get PC and silly. Being a soldier is a tough life, it's no place for wimps. Even in the changed British Army, there are probably 'rough' things that go on behind closed doors. When you're faced by an enemy ready to cut your ba**s off, those days of being a 'sprog' and getting some rough and tumble can actually serve to help you through the rough and scary times.

It can't have been that bad as I still miss those hardy days, but as always one man's meat......

And so where did you see your 'rough and scary' front line action soldier !

[freebyrd]

Being beaten to death is of course totally unacceptable and those responsible should go to prison for life.

That said, allow me to make a few observations that many will want to bite at. I was a young squaddie circa 1974 and was knocked around by the senior guys quite often. It was "all part of it" and I was forewarned, my older brother received the same treatment back in '64. I took redundancy as a Warrant Officer Physical Training Instructor. in '93 when it all started to get PC and silly. Being a soldier is a tough life, it's no place for wimps. Even in the changed British Army, there are probably 'rough' things that go on behind closed doors. When you're faced by an enemy ready to cut your ba**s off, those days of being a 'sprog' and getting some rough and tumble can actually serve to help you through the rough and scary times.

It can't have been that bad as I still miss those hardy days, but as always one man's meat......

And so where did you see your 'rough and scary' front line action soldier !

Dear me, why the venom matelot?! Jolly Jack Tar pi*s you off today? Get out the wrong side of the hammock? The Streets of Northern Ireland and Falkland Islands. Do I need to send you a full resume?

[thailand49]

Probe ordered by the 4th army region into the death of a conscript

BANGKOK: -- A fact-finding committee has been set up to investigate the death of a conscript who was allegedly tortured and beaten up to death by his immediate superiors.

Colonel Yutthana Petmuang, deputy spokesman of the forward command of the 4th region Internal Security Operations Command, said Monday that the case had already been reported to commander of the 4th army region, Lt-Gen Vivath Pathompark.

Parents of the victim, 23-year old Songtham Moodmud, have cried foul against their son’s death. They claimed that their son was tortured and badly beaten up by a drill sergeant and five other officers after he engaged in a quarrel with the sergeant.

The victim was taken to a hospital in Yala province with multiple and internal injuries. He was later declared dead.

Colonel Yutthana said Lt-Col Somkid Kongthon, commander of the 152th infantry battalion, Payak barrack in Bannang Sata district where the victim was attached to would be summoned for questioning regarding the tragic incident.

He assured that if the allegations were proven to be true, all the culprits would receive the highest penalties.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/content/158168

-- Thai PBS 2016-04-05

What a wonderful feeling it must be for the parents to see your child, a child which you nurtured every day during 18 years, a child which you give the best Medical help and school, a child on witch you put your hope for a bright future, being beat and killed by a few Military Officers who have total impunity.

Is that 1 of the 12 prescripts of being a "good Thai"?

I understand these types of thing happen for whatever reason people want to use to justify it, I personally do not care what country or why it is done? Living here and meeting a large number of Thais that have served in the past I wonder if this type of behavior is working. It seems going to the Temple and Military just isn't working so the last thing they should be doing is hazing a individual to death.

I have a Thai son and I think it would be good for him to serve regardless but if this happens to my son I can tell you I would allow the system to sort it out but if the outcome is white washed I can tell you I couldn't care less who/what/ where even in Thailand, I will be looking for some real payback from the top to the bottom.

[Celer et Audax]

Being beaten to death is of course totally unacceptable and those responsible should go to prison for life.

That said, allow me to make a few observations that many will want to bite at. I was a young squaddie circa 1974 and was knocked around by the senior guys quite often. It was "all part of it" and I was forewarned, my older brother received the same treatment back in '64. I took redundancy as a Warrant Officer Physical Training Instructor. in '93 when it all started to get PC and silly. Being a soldier is a tough life, it's no place for wimps. Even in the changed British Army, there are probably 'rough' things that go on behind closed doors. When you're faced by an enemy ready to cut your ba**s off, those days of being a 'sprog' and getting some rough and tumble can actually serve to help you through the rough and scary times.

It can't have been that bad as I still miss those hardy days, but as always one man's meat......

And so where did you see your 'rough and scary' front line action soldier !

Dear me, why the venom matelot?! Jolly Jack Tar pi*s you off today? Get out the wrong side of the hammock? The Streets of Northern Ireland and Falkland Islands. Do I need to send you a full resume?

You tell him mate!! I took a beating on a lance jack's course for leaving one of my guys behind during a command appointment tabbing across the plain in wintertime the whole section was on our chin straps including me but I failed to look after one of my blokes so the DS gave me a good kicking

I never ever forgot that lesson and I never complained about it either!!!

[freebyrd]

Being beaten to death is of course totally unacceptable and those responsible should go to prison for life.

That said, allow me to make a few observations that many will want to bite at. I was a young squaddie circa 1974 and was knocked around by the senior guys quite often. It was "all part of it" and I was forewarned, my older brother received the same treatment back in '64. I took redundancy as a Warrant Officer Physical Training Instructor. in '93 when it all started to get PC and silly. Being a soldier is a tough life, it's no place for wimps. Even in the changed British Army, there are probably 'rough' things that go on behind closed doors. When you're faced by an enemy ready to cut your ba**s off, those days of being a 'sprog' and getting some rough and tumble can actually serve to help you through the rough and scary times.

It can't have been that bad as I still miss those hardy days, but as always one man's meat......

And so where did you see your 'rough and scary' front line action soldier !

Dear me, why the venom matelot?! Jolly Jack Tar pi*s you off today? Get out the wrong side of the hammock? The Streets of Northern Ireland and Falkland Islands. Do I need to send you a full resume?

You tell him mate!! I took a beating on a lance jack's course for leaving one of my guys behind during a command appointment tabbing across the plain in wintertime the whole section was on our chin straps including me but I failed to look after one of my blokes so the DS gave me a good kicking

I never ever forgot that lesson and I never complained about it either!!!

The Plain in winter, a tough place to be. Not many matelots or crabs get that sort of initiation.

[scorecard]

and these animals are running the country?

Don't think the several people who carried out this assault are running the country, any more than those who threw grenades that killed children were running it under the last government.

What will be pertinent is to see how this is handled.

Assault? you mean murder. The army are running the country and the army killed this kid.

Well there's a nice convenient summation.

How convenient for you to make this summation.

Perhaps you'd like to think about the fact that a young man is dead!

[Denim]

Another soldier dies from beating in military camp

Submitted by editor2 on Tue, 26/04/2016 - 18:26

Not even a month after news of an army draftee beaten to death by other soldiers caused public outrage, a doctor has concluded that another soldier in northeastern Thailand has been beaten to death in a military camp.

The Cross Cultural Foundation (CrCF), a human rights advocacy group, reported that at 9 am on Monday, 25 April 2016, the Provincial Court of the northeastern province of Surin held a pre-indictment witness hearing into the death of Corporal Krittikon Suthiraphan, 25, a soldier at Weerawat Yothin Army Camp in Surin.

Krittikon died in a military prison in Weerawat Yothin Army Camp on 21 February 2016. He was imprisoned after he was accused of assisting other detainees in the military prison to flee.

After his death, Boonrueang Suthiraphan, Krittikon’s mother, with a lawyer from CrCF, requested the court to hold a pre-indictment witness hearing on the case in accordance with Article 150 of the Criminal Procedure Code as the late corporal died from unnatural causes.

At the hearing, Naruephon Kittikunakon, a doctor from Surin Provincial Hospital who performed the forensic examination of the body, said that Krittikon was found dead in the military prison with his feet chained.

The examination showed that the body had been beaten by hard objects and the soldier died from serious head injuries and a ruptured stomach, added the doctor.

The mother of the late soldier said at the hearing that she attempted to bail her late son while he was detained in the military prison, but the bail request was denied.

She testified that she tried to visit Krittikon many times, but the authorities denied her requests and prevented her from making any contact with the soldier, citing military prison rules.

Pol Lt Col Ratchapon Kliang-uttha, the investigator of the case, told the court that military sources indicate that four detainees of the military prison in Weerawat Yothin Army Camp are prime suspects in the beating.

According to the public prosecutor, two witnesses who are currently detained at the military prison will be summoned to testify.

Surin Provincial Court has scheduled the next pre-indictment hearing on the case at 9 am on 23 May 2016.

http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/6084

Edited April 27, 2016 by Denim

[Denim]

^ Very sad. No mother should have to put up with this.

[scorecard]

Being beaten to death is of course totally unacceptable and those responsible should go to prison for life.

That said, allow me to make a few observations that many will want to bite at. I was a young squaddie circa 1974 and was knocked around by the senior guys quite often. It was "all part of it" and I was forewarned, my older brother received the same treatment back in '64. I took redundancy as a Warrant Officer Physical Training Instructor. in '93 when it all started to get PC and silly. Being a soldier is a tough life, it's no place for wimps. Even in the changed British Army, there are probably 'rough' things that go on behind closed doors. When you're faced by an enemy ready to cut your ba**s off, those days of being a 'sprog' and getting some rough and tumble can actually serve to help you through the rough and scary times.

It can't have been that bad as I still miss those hardy days, but as always one man's meat......

The difference is that this here and now in Thailand, and you're still alive to tell your story!

Read line one of my last post again - Being beaten to death is of course totally unacceptable and those responsible should go to prison for life.

I'm simply filling in a few blanks for those who have never served as a soldier.

Your last line is just gross, where's your compassion?

Serious question - if this was your son, would you just say 'all part of the military way' no problem? I repeat, a serious question, please respond.

Edited April 27, 2016 by scorecard

[freebyrd]

Being beaten to death is of course totally unacceptable and those responsible should go to prison for life.

That said, allow me to make a few observations that many will want to bite at. I was a young squaddie circa 1974 and was knocked around by the senior guys quite often. It was "all part of it" and I was forewarned, my older brother received the same treatment back in '64. I took redundancy as a Warrant Officer Physical Training Instructor. in '93 when it all started to get PC and silly. Being a soldier is a tough life, it's no place for wimps. Even in the changed British Army, there are probably 'rough' things that go on behind closed doors. When you're faced by an enemy ready to cut your ba**s off, those days of being a 'sprog' and getting some rough and tumble can actually serve to help you through the rough and scary times.

It can't have been that bad as I still miss those hardy days, but as always one man's meat......

The difference is that this here and now in Thailand, and you're still alive to tell your story!

Read line one of my last post again - Being beaten to death is of course totally unacceptable and those responsible should go to prison for life.

I'm simply filling in a few blanks for those who have never served as a soldier.

Your last line is just gross, where's your compassion?

Serious question - if this was your son, would you just say 'all part of the military way' no problem? I repeat, a serious question, please respond.

Filling in a few blanks is gross?! Didn't I display compassion when I wrote "Being beaten to death is of course totally unacceptable and those responsible should go to prison for life." You obviously haven't read my comments properly. Of course I wouldn't say "no problem" if it were my son, and if you do read my post properly I'm patently not saying it in this case.

When I was sent to the Falkland in '82, my old man said, albeit tongue in cheek "Now you know why you signed up, so don't come crying to me if you get killed." Military people think and act in a different way from those who have never experienced life inside an army camp.

From your vitriolic last, it's apparent that we are poles apart in our thinking and will likely remain so, so please don't waste any more time replying to me as I won't respond further. Thank you.