Living in Thailand with no health insurance

[anto]

Every hospital, they have to treat you. Does not mean it's for free. But you do not need to put an insurance card on the table.

>> But you do not need to put an insurance card on the table.<<

Well that just cancels out what you said before .

[mania]

Every hospital, they have to treat you. Does not mean it's for free. But you do not need to put an insurance card on the table.

>> But you do not need to put an insurance card on the table.<<

Well that just cancels out what you said before .

I think what would be a better term so as to not think your getting in without a ticket is....

Every Hospital will "stabilize" you

[mania]

I really do think that the majority of posters here talk some amount of pish…!

My mother came to visit over the Xmas period. Unfortunately, for her, she got really quite sick. She dropped a lot of weight, due to constant diarrhoea and vomiting. It was touch and go.

She took out travel insurance before she came, expecting that would cover any bills.

Dealing with insurance / travel insurance companies takes time and can also be quite confusing for some people.

Long story short, she was treated in the government hospital in Mae Rim for just under £70. I didn’t bother with her travel insurance. I paid in cash.

Not the best hospital stay she’s ever going to enjoy, but hey, TIT..!

3 million insurance my f00kin a**e. Zoomers the lot of you.

I think we see extremes on both side being discussed & yes maybe 3 million is a bad case,

But also your Mom's case of simple food poisoning which many here have had over the years at least once

should not be confused with any *real* emergency. Yes it looks bad with weight drop due to fluids flying out in the form of diarrhea

+ fever etc but it is not in the same league as what the folks here are talking about in regards to good insurance or a good nest egg are talking about.

[Naam]

Every hospital, they have to treat you. Does not mean it's for free. But you do not need to put an insurance card on the table.

sure, they also take cash and credit cards.

[KC 71]

Does an American Express card give you insurance ?

[Naam]

Every hospital, they have to treat you. Does not mean it's for free. But you do not need to put an insurance card on the table.

>> But you do not need to put an insurance card on the table.<<

Well that just cancels out what you said before .

I think what would be a better term so as to not think your getting in without a ticket is....

Every Hospital will "stabilize" you

i was stabilised in ICU by a temporary external pacemaker/defibrillator the night sep30/oct1 last year. the next day my choice was to come up with a deposit of 800k Baht for an implant unit or go home and from there (most probably) to cremation. had to pay the balance of 345,000 three days later when checking out.

chok dee!

[LivinLOS]

^^ Yeap ICU can be spendy is for sure..

Just being in the room is 40k a day.. plus nursing.. Plus doctors.. Plus meds..

And your not likely in the room without needing an OP. So get ready to add that in.

[LivinLOS]

People buy health insurance because they live in fear. Others do not buy health insurance because they are not part of the herd and are self-reliant. Forget any financial analysis or risk management, this is all psychology.

'risk management' is only relevant if your worried about managing the risk..

If you financially analyse it.. Insurance is a business and makes money from its customers.. By definition even if you are only average, its a bad buy long term if you can afford the issues yourself. Simple math.

If you dont perceive yourself as average, its very much a bad buy.

[JLCrab]

People buy health insurance because they live in fear. Others do not buy health insurance because they are not part of the herd and are self-reliant. Forget any financial analysis or risk management, this is all psychology.

'risk management' is only relevant if your worried about managing the risk..

If you financially analyse it.. Insurance is a business and makes money from its customers.. By definition even if you are only average, its a bad buy long term if you can afford the issues yourself. Simple math.

If you dont perceive yourself as average, its very much a bad buy.

I don't worry. I have enough to pay for my bills and probably yours too. It works well for me and keeps my financial advisors happy but then again you don't have financial advisors as your advice to yourself as to your doctors is more than sufficient.

Reading your stuff makes me think of Stevie Cohen who also likes to manage his own affairs but he unlike yourself needs about 1000 employees worldwide to help him do it.

However as you've already said that your financial decision presumes persons purchase health insurance out of fear and that you would consider doing so to be part of a herd mentality, both premises with which I disagree, I'll just leave it that your advice is good for yourself and you always follow your own advice because you never disagree with your own advice to yourself because if you were to disagree with yourself, you would probably overrule it, yourself..

Edited April 9, 2016 by JLCrab

[TheSiemReaper]

People buy health insurance because they live in fear. Others do not buy health insurance because they are not part of the herd and are self-reliant. Forget any financial analysis or risk management, this is all psychology.

'risk management' is only relevant if your worried about managing the risk..

If you financially analyse it.. Insurance is a business and makes money from its customers.. By definition even if you are only average, its a bad buy long term if you can afford the issues yourself. Simple math.

If you dont perceive yourself as average, its very much a bad buy.

Lol. When you are run over by a car or a motorcycle - how you perceive yourself is irrelevant. Same for getting cancer. If you make your health insurance decisions based on "perception of health" you are just fooling yourself and by extension the people of Thailand who will be getting some of the bill for your poor decisions.

[Kwasaki]

There is no insurance

Well as you can read on the thread there is l have a card for health insurance now and a card for accident insurance also a card for the gov hospital.

All better than what l had before, nowt.

Good luck with the payout

Don't understand your point, the policy has listed maximum amounts of what they will pay out for.

[subterminalvelocity]

An interesting thread it is.

My take;

Insurance, like hospitals and schools here are "for profit". (excluding government schools and hospitals)

Insurance companies are in the business of making money.

I've had a shitful time of seeking accountability from Bumrungrad over the last six months.

"Yes, your money" "Dai" "Yes we can take your money"

Accountability? They say we are a responsible and accountable JCI internationally accredited hospital.....but they are not really.

As an extreme sports participant, I choose to self insure...no insurer will cover me anyhow.

My wife and I choose her mid tier private hospital close to home and I rate it highly.

Two points to note;

1. Upon researching insurance options 2 years ago, I still receive the emails and calls from insurance agents making the hard sell.

2. The Thai translation for responsibility and accountability are the same when we NES know full well there is a distinct difference. Accountability imo is masked behind Thai face. I've found this to be worse at the leading hospitals and schools.

In closing, I genuinely believe sound medical care can be sought from a mid tier hospital as Physicians in the more expensive hospitals had access to baht and connections to get their positions. Smarts in this country doesn't always get you to the top of the heap.

Me? credit card to 1 million THB and 3.5 million THB accessible in 48 hours coming from abroad.

I've always had BUPA at home (suspended whilst abroad).

I'm taking a wee punt yes but believe me, I, and those that know me are surprised I'm still alive.....so I'm already ahead in my mid 40's haha.

PA from BB I do have, health insurance I do not, and will not.

I won't need a pot passed around to make up for a shortfall and don't have any respect for one that does.

If you don't have adequate insurance or liquid funds, go home.

[JLCrab]

You are not self-insured you just don't have any insurance. Choosing to pay one's medical bills as they occur from your own accounts is not insurance as there is no probability or shared risk component.

[MadMac]

Lol. When you are run over by a car or a motorcycle - how you perceive yourself is irrelevant. Same for getting cancer. If you make your health insurance decisions based on "perception of health" you are just fooling yourself and by extension the people of Thailand who will be getting some of the bill for your poor decisions.

For an accident you have an accident insurance. They come with high coverage such as 10mTHB and often for free with a bank account or credit card (e.g. UOB vCare with accident insurance of 10x the balance or max. 10mTHB).

If you get cancer, well shit happens. Health insurance will give you the max. coverage of 1mTHB or less and then you are on your own. I don't need an insurance for that too feed hungry agents and build glass palaces in Bangkok (AIA at Ratchada is a nice recent example).

[JLCrab]

You can fool some of the people some of the time but not the ThaiVisa Iconoclasts-R-Us crowd. No sirree You betcha.

[subterminalvelocity]

Yes you are correct, I am wrong to say "self insure"

Nevertheless, that 3.5m THB is specifically for cost of health only.

If I may ask a question;

If 3.5m THB is about 10% of net worth, then in this country if one chooses mid level hospital care would you believe this will suffice?

45 years, no employment income, worth spread evenly in property and securities.

Any advice, I'm happy to receive.

[NancyL]

Does an American Express card give you insurance ?

There are different versions of the AMEX card and usually it just offers travel insurance if you charge your airline ticket with the card. Check the Amex website for details.

This is something that Lanna Care Net caseworkers always check out when assisting people who recently arrived in Thailand. Did they charge their incoming trip on a credit card and does that mean they have travel insurance (and maybe don't know they do)? Some Visa and Master Cards have this provision also.

[TheSiemReaper]

Lol. When you are run over by a car or a motorcycle - how you perceive yourself is irrelevant. Same for getting cancer. If you make your health insurance decisions based on "perception of health" you are just fooling yourself and by extension the people of Thailand who will be getting some of the bill for your poor decisions.

For an accident you have an accident insurance. They come with high coverage such as 10mTHB and often for free with a bank account or credit card (e.g. UOB vCare with accident insurance of 10x the balance or max. 10mTHB).

If you get cancer, well shit happens. Health insurance will give you the max. coverage of 1mTHB or less and then you are on your own. I don't need an insurance for that too feed hungry agents and build glass palaces in Bangkok (AIA at Ratchada is a nice recent example).

<deleted> My insurer providers up to 60 Million THB for cancer; it's specifically included in the terms.

[JLCrab]

Yes you are correct, I am wrong to say "self insure"

Nevertheless, that 3.5m THB is specifically for cost of health only.

If I may ask a question;

If 3.5m THB is about 10% of net worth, then in this country if one chooses mid level hospital care would you believe this will suffice?

45 years, no employment income, worth spread evenly in property and securities.

Any advice, I'm happy to receive.

What you have is called a reserve and that is just fine for those who cannot or choose not to purchase health insurance. My advice in Thailand is to live as close as you can to a good hospital and make sure they know who you are.

If you can qualify for and get a no-spending-limit American Express card that would go a long way and then you can settle the account with AmEx rather than the hospital.

Edited April 9, 2016 by JLCrab

[CharlieH]

Please refrain from using personal remarks.

Thanks

[NancyL]

Suan Dok, the popular government hospital associated with Chiang Mai University and more properly known as Maharaj Hospital doesn't accept American Express. Master Card and Visa are just fine, but the card has to be presented and swiped. They can't accept the numbers being given to them over the phone or via email from a relative overseas, for example.

I can't speak for personal experience about other hospitals. I've got an American Express card I rarely use and really should use it more so that Amex knows we still love them. Hubby and I should try it out next time were at Bangkok Hospital or CM Ram for personal matters. I know Visa is OK and you see the Master Card symbol at both places, as well.

We get better exchange rate and lower fees with the Visa card, so the Amex card is just a back-up, but we really should exercise it several times a year. Good reminder, JLCrab about how Amex has the feature of no upper credit limit.

[JLCrab]

From Chiang Mai Ram website:

[remobb]

From personal and very recent experience. I have just recovered from a heart attack. I was in hospital for a week and it cost around 600,000baht. I had insurance but not enough. I thank my school for paying my bill or I would be still there begging for money or I guess I would have gone upstairs.

So for me, I say, get insurance.

Although I have been here for 17 years and not had any other real problems. Before that I have been very healthy. Be prepared!

Your recent heart attack is NOW a preexisting condition. Check to see if insurance companies cover preexisting conditions. If not, and you have heart problems in the future, your insurance company may not pay out.

Yes, my current ins company covers it.

[remobb]

From personal and very recent experience. I have just recovered from a heart attack. I was in hospital for a week and it cost around 600,000baht. I had insurance but not enough. I thank my school for paying my bill or I would be still there begging for money or I guess I would have gone upstairs.

So for me, I say, get insurance.

Although I have been here for 17 years and not had any other real problems. Before that I have been very healthy. Be prepared!

Your recent heart attack is NOW a preexisting condition. Check to see if insurance companies cover preexisting conditions. If not, and you have heart problems in the future, your insurance company may not pay out.

I thought Thai schools were required to provide Thai SS health insurance to all foreign employees?

My school provides health ins but it is very basic.

[remobb]

I've assisted numerous older expats who find themselves in trouble, usually medical trouble. Most have financial problems in paying their current or anticipated medical bills. I've seen numerous situations where older expats have died of conditions that would have been treated or cured by health care systems in the west. Often these expats don't die comfortably.

Sadly, people sometimes get themselves into situations where they can't afford or don't want to or otherwise aren't able to return to their home country for care if it's needed. Or their condition is chronic and they don't want to return or can't return to their home country to have it resolved, i.e having heart stents installed, for example. Right now, I can think of about a dozen older expats who would have much better quality of life if they had an extra 200,000 - 250,000 baht to undergo the procedure to install a few heart stents. Instead, they're going thru life with low energy due to poor heart function, managing to stay alive with naps and medications, living from one pension check to the next.

How can you assist elderly expats that have serious health problems and can`t afford medical treatment? Unless you are a faith healer or can pay their medical bills yourself, I don`t see any ways you can help them.

If I only had enough money in the bank to grab my retirement extension each year and just enough to live on I would be having many sleepless nights. I cannot feel sorry for people that do not make provisions for themselves in Thailand, whether it be insurance or money put by knowing full well our situations in Thailand or for those living by chance. The facts are that as we get older, not only do we grow uglier but the risks of ill heath increase dramatically and the more dependent we become on assistance from others and health care. These are undisputed facts.

Good question about how can I (and others) assists elderly expats with serious health problems who can't afford medical treatments. We're the members of Lanna Care Net and we've been thru training and are aware of the resources available both here and in the clients home country for assistance.

For example, many Americans who served in the U.S. military, even for a brief period, aren't aware that they're qualified for assistance if they're low income and/or have high medical bills once they're over age 65. They think VA benefits are only for those who made a career of the U.S. military. I've guided numerous U.S. vets (and their widows) thru the minefield that is the application process for VA benefits. (Sadly, VFW membership is available only to those who actually served overseas, but the benefits I mentioned are available to all vets who served during the specified timeframes)

Other examples of how we can help -- in keeping elderly expats with health problems complient with their Thai immigration requirements. This is one reason I keep myself current on what's happening at Imm., because I'm helping or advising older people with health problems on how to deal with 90 day reports and extensions, including medical extensions.

Other ways we can help -- some of our members are retired doctors and nurses. They visit clients in their homes weekly to check that they're taking meds properly, educate Thai family members on how to prepare food that older westerners find appealing, go with clients to doctors appointments to help them "listen, ask good questions and remember" what the doctor says.

Sometimes clients decide to return to their home countries, but are overwhelmed in figuring out the details -- how to get rid of their stuff here, find a place to live in their home country, make travel arrangements, pack, even how to get to the airport. All this can be difficult if you have diminished physical and mental capabilities and especially difficult if you need to access to the social services of your home country when you return. Needless to say, often our caseworkers spend much time on the phone talking with officials in their clients home countries. Where possible, we have caseworkers of the same nationality as the clients.

Let's see -- the list just goes on. I could keep writing. No case is truly hopeless. Yes, some people truly aren't able to pay their bills. The gov't hospitals will work out a payment plan. Often one of our caseworkers is on the scene during that process to make sure the client understands what he's signing and the process for making payments. Sometimes, it's physically difficult for the client to get into the hospital each month to make the payments and amazingly, there isn't a good mechanism for paying via bank transfer. Some of our caseworkers collect the payments each month and scan and email the receipts to the clients, and eventually pass along the paper copy. Unfortunately, we started to do this when we found clients were giving money for contract payment to their neighbors or maids and then not bothering to ask for receipts. And the hospital would have no record that the client's payment contract was being fulfilled.

The gov't hospitals have a human rights obligation to treat someone in an emergency condition, regardless of ability to pay. Thus, a foreigner who is living from pension-check-to-pension-check can show up at their E/R in the midst of a heart attack and they will treat and stabilize him. That bill can be as high as 150,000 baht. But they'll send him home with a bagful of meds and a payment contract with the strong advise that he needs to have several cardiac stents installed to prevent future heart attacks and improve the quality of his life.. But, that is considered an "elective procedure" and they won't perform that surgery unless 150,000 baht is deposited first. Of course, if the expat has no savings and is only able to pay off the bill for the initial heart attack at a rate of 10,000 baht per month, he better pray that he stays very, very healthy.

Nancy, you are an angel. You should change your profile name to "FlorenceN" Keep up your great work.

[Chongalulu]

Who offers the best accident only insurance. I'm approaching 64 ,in very good health,don't smoke or drink,not overweight and exercise regularly so am prepared to Self insure on this aspect. I also can afford to pay for smaller,medium incidents. What I want is purely something that would cover me for catastrophic expensive incidents like road accidents etc,so a limit of 100/200k baht is not what I want as I could cover that myself. I'm looking for the 1million plus cover. Suggestions with specific companies appreciated

[NancyL]

I've assisted numerous older expats who find themselves in trouble, usually medical trouble. Most have financial problems in paying their current or anticipated medical bills. I've seen numerous situations where older expats have died of conditions that would have been treated or cured by health care systems in the west. Often these expats don't die comfortably.

Sadly, people sometimes get themselves into situations where they can't afford or don't want to or otherwise aren't able to return to their home country for care if it's needed. Or their condition is chronic and they don't want to return or can't return to their home country to have it resolved, i.e having heart stents installed, for example. Right now, I can think of about a dozen older expats who would have much better quality of life if they had an extra 200,000 - 250,000 baht to undergo the procedure to install a few heart stents. Instead, they're going thru life with low energy due to poor heart function, managing to stay alive with naps and medications, living from one pension check to the next.

How can you assist elderly expats that have serious health problems and can`t afford medical treatment? Unless you are a faith healer or can pay their medical bills yourself, I don`t see any ways you can help them.

If I only had enough money in the bank to grab my retirement extension each year and just enough to live on I would be having many sleepless nights. I cannot feel sorry for people that do not make provisions for themselves in Thailand, whether it be insurance or money put by knowing full well our situations in Thailand or for those living by chance. The facts are that as we get older, not only do we grow uglier but the risks of ill heath increase dramatically and the more dependent we become on assistance from others and health care. These are undisputed facts.

Good question about how can I (and others) assists elderly expats with serious health problems who can't afford medical treatments. We're the members of Lanna Care Net and we've been thru training and are aware of the resources available both here and in the clients home country for assistance.

For example, many Americans who served in the U.S. military, even for a brief period, aren't aware that they're qualified for assistance if they're low income and/or have high medical bills once they're over age 65. They think VA benefits are only for those who made a career of the U.S. military. I've guided numerous U.S. vets (and their widows) thru the minefield that is the application process for VA benefits. (Sadly, VFW membership is available only to those who actually served overseas, but the benefits I mentioned are available to all vets who served during the specified timeframes)

Other examples of how we can help -- in keeping elderly expats with health problems complient with their Thai immigration requirements. This is one reason I keep myself current on what's happening at Imm., because I'm helping or advising older people with health problems on how to deal with 90 day reports and extensions, including medical extensions.

Other ways we can help -- some of our members are retired doctors and nurses. They visit clients in their homes weekly to check that they're taking meds properly, educate Thai family members on how to prepare food that older westerners find appealing, go with clients to doctors appointments to help them "listen, ask good questions and remember" what the doctor says.

Sometimes clients decide to return to their home countries, but are overwhelmed in figuring out the details -- how to get rid of their stuff here, find a place to live in their home country, make travel arrangements, pack, even how to get to the airport. All this can be difficult if you have diminished physical and mental capabilities and especially difficult if you need to access to the social services of your home country when you return. Needless to say, often our caseworkers spend much time on the phone talking with officials in their clients home countries. Where possible, we have caseworkers of the same nationality as the clients.

Let's see -- the list just goes on. I could keep writing. No case is truly hopeless. Yes, some people truly aren't able to pay their bills. The gov't hospitals will work out a payment plan. Often one of our caseworkers is on the scene during that process to make sure the client understands what he's signing and the process for making payments. Sometimes, it's physically difficult for the client to get into the hospital each month to make the payments and amazingly, there isn't a good mechanism for paying via bank transfer. Some of our caseworkers collect the payments each month and scan and email the receipts to the clients, and eventually pass along the paper copy. Unfortunately, we started to do this when we found clients were giving money for contract payment to their neighbors or maids and then not bothering to ask for receipts. And the hospital would have no record that the client's payment contract was being fulfilled.

The gov't hospitals have a human rights obligation to treat someone in an emergency condition, regardless of ability to pay. Thus, a foreigner who is living from pension-check-to-pension-check can show up at their E/R in the midst of a heart attack and they will treat and stabilize him. That bill can be as high as 150,000 baht. But they'll send him home with a bagful of meds and a payment contract with the strong advise that he needs to have several cardiac stents installed to prevent future heart attacks and improve the quality of his life.. But, that is considered an "elective procedure" and they won't perform that surgery unless 150,000 baht is deposited first. Of course, if the expat has no savings and is only able to pay off the bill for the initial heart attack at a rate of 10,000 baht per month, he better pray that he stays very, very healthy.

Nancy, you are an angel. You should change your profile name to "FlorenceN" Keep up your great work.

No, it's not just me -- there are a number of us who help older expats and we do it quietly. Often we obtain help from our friends and acquaintances in many small ways. There are many good people here in Chiang Mai.

I'm just the most visible member about educating other expats here on ThaiVisa.com about the pitfalls of living here without adequate preparation. We'd really rather not have "new customers" and try to discourage people from making poor (or shall I say, uninformed) decisions.

[JLCrab]

Who offers the best accident only insurance. I'm approaching 64 ,in very good health,don't smoke or drink,not overweight and exercise regularly so am prepared to Self insure on this aspect. I also can afford to pay for smaller,medium incidents. What I want is purely something that would cover me for catastrophic expensive incidents like road accidents etc,so a limit of 100/200k baht is not what I want as I could cover that myself. I'm looking for the 1million plus cover. Suggestions with specific companies appreciated

People like this offer policies as you suggest but at age 64 their underwriters might decide that the odds are too good that you will have a catastrophic event.

https://www.aetnainternational.com/en/individuals.html

[KC 71]

The only insurance in this world is that some day you will pop youre clogs !

Get youre ashes spread in the sea- or post them to youre home country if you want- dont get repatriated- it will cost you a fortune !

[MadMac]

<deleted> My insurer providers up to 60 Million THB for cancer; it's specifically included in the terms.

Then it's probably not a local insurance. For a reasonable yearly fee of let's say 50k THB (that's a usual amount in TH) you wont find anything that offers more than 1mTHB coverage and that is for everything, not only possible cancer.

I could certainly throw truckloads of money on the guys like CIGNA, certainly first class and they cover things you don''t even know exist. But that money can be used better in many ways.

As with everything, it's up to you. If you think you need it, go for it. Especially if you come from welfare states in Europe where they program you for your whole life with the things you need.