Harbor Mall. Now that it's open...

[NanLaew]

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Isn't this thread more about all the new ones opening, than the old ones though?

I still think they must know something we don't. 

It was started by me to see how Harbour Mall was performing since at the time, I was mostly overseas and everyone was predicting the imminent demise. It has been for the most part an informative thread.

 

To counter the persistent claims that this mall and others would go tits up, I recently asked if any of the existing, functioning malls that originally opened and traded as a mall have shuttered. Despite some obfuscation, we know the correct answer.

 

I don't see any individual mall going bust but I won't rule out a national economic crisis that may threaten multiple high-rent, high-investment retail businesses at the lower end of the scale (never the Central Group).

 

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Something to think about. The traffic in Pattaya is already horrendeous in low season, and there is no way to alleviate it without demolishing half of the buildings on all the major roads to widen them. If enough people are going to be in Pattaya to make all the present and future malls profitable, what effect is that going to have on the congestion??

It is a nightmare but doesn't seem to be a factor on city, provincial or state radar. Since Bangkok suffered the same virtual gridlock due to narrow streets and a concentration of commercial and retail businesses in certain confined areas while workers and consumers moved (were forced) further into the suburbs, they built mass transit and introduced one-way traffic systems. Unfortunately, beyond some token new stations, they stopped actively expanding mass transit a long time ago and the mess is congealing again. All they seem to be doing is more 'traffic management' with more one-way streets. Pattaya's existing one-way system has mostly been in play for maybe 18 or 20 years already (?) but is beyond its use-by date IMHO. However, it will inevitably go the same way as Bangkok as there doesn't seem to be a notion of clearing spaces and widening roads to address all the vertical building nearer the sea. Chonburi, Udon Thani, Chiang Mai and other provincial cities are actively building or expanding existing ring-roads but the inner city districts are still narrow, overbuilt and very constrained.

 

Having said that, Pong high street looks lovely.

[NanLaew]

12 hours ago, champers said:

Section 44 has just been invoked to speed up the procedural processes that can hamper or put off foreign investors. This government is desperate to get investment into the Eastern Economic Corridor. I think any casino links won't become known till next year but businesses are hanging on to prime sites even though they are not currently looking viable. Is it all about future prospects? Short term pain for long term gain?

Agreed. A lot sitting on the fence right now and those with deepest pockets can afford to sit longer.

 

12 hours ago, champers said:

I don't doubt that Wynn; or any other major casino; would gladly transport a local hi roller to and from their casino. Would it be Macao or Singapore?

Wynn uses their partnership with NetJets to fly their high rollers around the planet. The Gulfstream sighted was casino-owned, not charter.

[tazly]

20 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Which way?

However, no mall or department store in Pattaya has closed that I know of other than the place that was demolished to build Terminal 21. That was barely open throughout it's existence.

That does not mean they are doing well though.

Other than the facilities I noted in The Avenue, it's mostly closed for business.

Isn't this thread more about all the new ones opening, than the old ones though?

I still think they must know something we don't. 

 

Interesting that there was a very similar thread to this regarding the Avenue several years back with many people claiming that the developers were "smarter" than the TVF peanut gallery questioning its design/location, and that the place would be a roaring success................................................................TVF 1 - Developers 0

Edited May 25, 2017 by tazly

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Exactly. Their previous development in Laem Chabang was a similar 'white elephant' but recently has taken on a new lease of life. Since nobody that I know lives in that area, (and no TV members have claimed to frequent the mall) I can only speculate as to why this is. I would consider that improved accessibility via highway for the residents further inland could be a factor?

Perhaps someone can explain why all the malls are being built in Pattaya and none in Jomptien. Today I saw the brand new highway link to Jomptien under construction, so accessibility will not be a problem. Also, huge number of giant resort and condo development going on, so lots of customers.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

 

It is a nightmare but doesn't seem to be a factor on city, provincial or state radar. Since Bangkok suffered the same virtual gridlock due to narrow streets and a concentration of commercial and retail businesses in certain confined areas while workers and consumers moved (were forced) further into the suburbs, they built mass transit and introduced one-way traffic systems. Unfortunately, beyond some token new stations, they stopped actively expanding mass transit a long time ago and the mess is congealing again. All they seem to be doing is more 'traffic management' with more one-way streets. Pattaya's existing one-way system has mostly been in play for maybe 18 or 20 years already (?) but is beyond its use-by date IMHO. However, it will inevitably go the same way as Bangkok as there doesn't seem to be a notion of clearing spaces and widening roads to address all the vertical building nearer the sea. Chonburi, Udon Thani, Chiang Mai and other provincial cities are actively building or expanding existing ring-roads but the inner city districts are still narrow, overbuilt and very constrained.

 

Quite right about the one way traffic being out of date. Not many hiso tourists wish to have to traipse such a long way to get something going in the other direction.

Now that Beach is wide enough, and Second has always been wide enough for two way traffic, it's time to go that way. All they have to do is grow some large enough to ban on street parking on those two roads.

[janclaes47]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Quite right about the one way traffic being out of date. Not many hiso tourists wish to have to traipse such a long way to get something going in the other direction.

Now that Beach is wide enough, and Second has always been wide enough for two way traffic, it's time to go that way. All they have to do is grow some large enough to ban on street parking on those two roads.

And where they gonna park, if they ban road parking,  since now already there is no parking space if you have to be somewhere on second or beach road

[NanLaew]

14 minutes ago, janclaes47 said:

And where they gonna park, if they ban road parking,  since now already there is no parking space if you have to be somewhere on second or beach road

There's never been any significant solution to parking in Bangkok so I would think that Pattaya will be similarly cursed. The amount of vehicles on Thai roads has probably quadrupled in the years since a previous government incentivized private car ownership but beyond the malls and condominium developments, no steps have been taken by subsequent governments to encourage planners and developers to accommodate this.

Edited May 25, 2017 by NanLaew

[kkerry]

12 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Exactly. Their previous development in Laem Chabang was a similar 'white elephant' but recently has taken on a new lease of life. Since nobody that I know lives in that area, (and no TV members have claimed to frequent the mall) I can only speculate as to why this is. I would consider that improved accessibility via highway for the residents further inland could be a factor?

 

I stayed near that mall about five years ago and was in there almost everyday for six weeks. Back then it had a steady stream of customers during the week and very busy on the weekend so I don't know why it would have been a 'white elephant'.

 

Slowest mall I have been in lately has been the Embassy in Bangkok. Been through there a few times around 5PM on a Friday and one time saw only six! shoppers in the fifteen minutes I walked in to get what I wanted. 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, janclaes47 said:

And where they gonna park, if they ban road parking,  since now already there is no parking space if you have to be somewhere on second or beach road

The vast majority of Thais don't have a car. People can do like them.

If you are referring to people with huge SUVs, if they were all off the city roads, so much the better. Most antisocial vehicle to take into a city, ever.

[janclaes47]

27 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The vast majority of Thais don't have a car. People can do like them.

If you are referring to people with huge SUVs, if they were all off the city roads, so much the better. Most antisocial vehicle to take into a city, ever.

If it gonna snow or if Eastern gonna fall on Christmas day was not my question.

 

The question was, where all those cars that currently are parked on beach and second road, gonna park when you take away the parking spaces as you suggested.

[tazly]

6 minutes ago, janclaes47 said:

If it gonna snow or if Eastern gonna fall on Christmas day was not my question.

 

The question was, where all those cars that currently are parked on beach and second road, gonna park when you take away the parking spaces as you suggested.

What does "Eastern gonna fall" mean?

[janclaes47]

Just now, tazly said:

What does "Eastern gonna fall" mean?

 

Shall we continue in my native language, and see how you do then?

[tazly]

2 minutes ago, janclaes47 said:

 

Shall we continue in my native language, and see how you do then?

No need to get excited......is this some kind of colloquial expression?  What is your native tongue and what is the origin of the expression?

[janclaes47]

1 minute ago, tazly said:

No need to get excited......is this some kind of colloquial expression?  What is your native tongue and what is the origin of the expression?

 

Will Easter do it for you?

[thaibeachlovers]

30 minutes ago, janclaes47 said:

If it gonna snow or if Eastern gonna fall on Christmas day was not my question.

 

The question was, where all those cars that currently are parked on beach and second road, gonna park when you take away the parking spaces as you suggested.

They can park in Central car park.

Truthfully, I don't care where they would park, as long as they weren't stopping two way traffic on Beach and Second. Too many cars in Pattaya anyway. Should be banned from the city. Use the baht buses instead.

 

Even though it's low low season, the cars are backed up from Central Rd past The Avenue at 3 pm. I never saw that before, even in high season.

If it's that bad now, how bad is it going to be next high season? Does it have to be backed up to South Rd before they realise there is a problem?

Edited May 25, 2017 by thaibeachlovers

[tazly]

25 minutes ago, janclaes47 said:

 

Will Easter do it for you?

Not familiar with this expression....what language does it come from, and if you have weblink explanation that would be great

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, tazly said:

Not familiar with this expression....what language does it come from, and if you have weblink explanation that would be great

 

Quote

 

What happens when Christmas and Easter fall on the same day?

...

THe world implodes.

 

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20170318220804AAGVAvs

Edited May 25, 2017 by Jingthing

[tazly]

50 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

 

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20170318220804AAGVAvs

Excellent hypothesis....could such a case imply that the world has entered a phase of compression of the space-time continuum , in other words a black hole?

[pegman]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

They can park in Central car park.

Truthfully, I don't care where they would park, as long as they weren't stopping two way traffic on Beach and Second. Too many cars in Pattaya anyway. Should be banned from the city. Use the baht buses instead.

 

Even though it's low low season, the cars are backed up from Central Rd past The Avenue at 3 pm. I never saw that before, even in high season.

If it's that bad now, how bad is it going to be next high season? Does it have to be backed up to South Rd before they realise there is a problem?

It's year round when the BKK crowd comes down on weekends. They all head to Central Festival to ear at the same time.

[johng]

It's taken me an hour just to get out of "Central" car park on a weekend...dont know why all the Bangkokians insist on going shopping in Pattaya, It's as if they haven't got any malls of their own.

[tazly]

1 minute ago, johng said:

It's taken me an hour just to get out of "Central" car park on a weekend...dont know why all the Bangkokians insist on going shopping in Pattaya, It's as if they haven't got any malls of their own.

takes 2 hours in Bangers...next.....

[johng]

So they rather spend 2 hours driving from "Bangers" to Pattaya then have to find a parking spot + maybe an hour to get out of the of the parking spot and another 2 hours drive home instead of just getting a taxi or train to one of the many "Bangers Malls"

[Langsuan Man]

On 5/25/2017 at 8:41 AM, NanLaew said:

Exactly. Their previous development in Laem Chabang was a similar 'white elephant' but recently has taken on a new lease of life. Since nobody that I know lives in that area, (and no TV members have claimed to frequent the mall) I can only speculate as to why this is. I would consider that improved accessibility via highway for the residents further inland could be a factor?

Well,  I can answer that.  Went to Sriracha yesterday and counted 3 new overpasses that have been built in less time than Pattaya's chunnel has been under construction.  So it is now easier to get to the Harbor Mall in Lam Chabang as a result

 

But Pattaya can look forward to two more tunnel construction projects because a tunnel incurs more graft than does an overpass  

[NanLaew]

13 hours ago, kkerry said:

 

I stayed near that mall about five years ago and was in there almost everyday for six weeks. Back then it had a steady stream of customers during the week and very busy on the weekend so I don't know why it would have been a 'white elephant'.

 

Slowest mall I have been in lately has been the Embassy in Bangkok. Been through there a few times around 5PM on a Friday and one time saw only six! shoppers in the fifteen minutes I walked in to get what I wanted. 

The 'white elephant' was from a comment earlier in this thread, probably by a Pattaya denizen on a one-off browse for nothing in particular. It seems that 5 years ago, it saw the same weekly foot fall as the new one in Pattaya.

 

Agreed that Embassy is a total anomaly when it comes to Bangkok's malls. Mrs Nan commented that for the price of a Gucci purse there, she could get a new PCX (and she did). All those really silly prices at the high-end outlets haven't appeared to capture the local market, not even the ones that can afford it. The mall is more empty than Harbour.

 

Both seem to subscribe to the 'build it and they will come' theory of retail development.

[DMC1]

So they rather spend 2 hours driving from "Bangers" to Pattaya then have to find a parking spot + maybe an hour to get out of the of the parking spot and another 2 hours drive home instead of just getting a taxi or train to one of the many "Bangers Malls"

Don't forget many of the 'Bangers' plates are not actually from Bangers. If you wanna be 'cool' you don't have a Chonburi plate on the car!

[johng]

Yes cool to have "Bangers"plates

makes no sense to me but "upto them"

 

I hear that Chonburi plates while not being cool can get some respect on the road as the driver could be a "Chonburi mafiosi" with loaded gun at the ready.

 

 

[NanLaew]

7 minutes ago, DMC1 said:

 

Don't forget many of the 'Bangers' plates are not actually from Bangers. If you wanna be 'cool' you don't have a Chonburi plate on the car!

 

Thus the myth of the "Bangkok platers" is totally exploded.

 

Thanks!

[johng]

If someone where really really bored they could sit at a good viewing spot to see the registration plates of cars entering "Central" on a weekend and compare the number of "Bangers" plates with those entering on a week day
of course this might just mean that cool Bangers platers (but really Pattaya residents )
only go to central at the weekend.
Maybe a better way would be the toll both data from the motorway but most probably hard to get hold of wonder if they publish any statistics ?

[NanLaew]

34 minutes ago, johng said:

If someone where really really bored they could sit at a good viewing spot to see the registration plates of cars entering "Central" on a weekend and compare the number of "Bangers" plates with those entering on a week day
of course this might just mean that cool Bangers platers (but really Pattaya residents )
only go to central at the weekend.
Maybe a better way would be the toll both data from the motorway but most probably hard to get hold of wonder if they publish any statistics ?

The real 'Bangkok platers' come on holiday weekends. The rest of them are local pseuds.

[johng]

The real 'Bangkok platers' come on holiday weekends. The rest of them are local pseuds.

So you have already done the "Central" number plate study. Can you release your findings or are they
copyright proprietary trade secrets ?