American mother refused UK visa over income rules

[7by7]

Unless they were opened by laislica there is no way of knowing what the letters were about; no evidence that he was claiming at all; let alone twice!

The DHSS, when it existed, wrote to people on all manner of matters; not just about benefits they were claiming. As do the DWP now.

If this man was claiming, legitimately or not, then surely he would have told the DHSS that he'd moved; otherwise they'd be sending his Giros (when it was the DHSS benefits were still paid by Giro) to the wrong address!

But what this has to do with Mrs. James, or even the subject of claiming asylum this topic seems to have wandered into, I have no idea.

[jaidam]

Not sure how Ghostnigel is ignorant or ill informed when he is 100% correct. Muslims illegally entering the UK are not subject to UK law or immigration laws. Once they manage to set foot on UK soil they are in for life and will be given full benefits for ever. I wish this was not the case, and that the law was applied to all regardless of status or religious beliefs, but let us deal with on the ground reality. By the way, a close friend is a channel tunnel employee and he tells me that almost all of them have 10k plus sterling in their pockets. Interesting how desperate "refugees" get such a thick wad.

He, and you, are both ignorant about and ill informed on this subject because what you are saying is 100% incorrect!

Everybody in the UK, regardless of their religion, is subject to the law of the land.

Anybody claiming any sort of public fund has to provide evidence that they are a British citizen or, if not, that they are in the UK legally and the conditions of their stay allows them to claim.

Therefore it should be obvious to all that illegal immigrants, whatever their religion, do not get any help from the state; because they are in the UK illegally and if they tried to obtain state aid then not only could they not provide such evidence, the mere attempt to claim would bring the attention of the state upon them and their illegal presence.

Of course, some people do enter illegally and then claim asylum, as do people who have entered legally, and so do get some state aid. The UK is a civilised country and wont let them starve.

But asylum seekers are not given a nice house and bucket loads of cash.

Some may be accommodated in a flat or house, many more are put into hostels or bed and breakfasts and a substantial proportion into an immigration detention centre or, if their asylum claim has been refused, even prison..

As well as being accommodated, they will also be given £35.39 a week with which to buy food and other necessities; plus a bit more, up to a maximum of £5 per week, if they are pregnant or have young children up to the age of 3. They may also get support from various charities, but that, of course, is not funded by the state.

So tell me; how does that add up to £18,600 p.a. as claimed by Ghostnigel? How does that equate to full benefits as claimed by you?

The latest government figures I can find show that between 2011 and 2013 45% of asylum claims were successful, 55% unsuccessful. So much for your claim that they are here for life. Initial figures for 2014 show a similar proportion.

For some facts rather than ignorant and ill informed opinion see

• Claim asylum in the UK
• Asylum support
• Asylum applicants' rights and responsibilities
• Immigration detention in the UK
• Home Office guidance; chapters 46 to 62: detention and removals.

Interesting that a channel tunnel worker is apparently able to stop and search illegal immigrants. Are the police and UKVI aware of his activities? Does he report these illegal immigrants to the police or UKVI so that they can be detained? Or does he simply let them through?

BTW, any support asylum seekers get from the government is means tested; so anyone with that amount of cash wont get anything.

My reply to your post keeps disappearing, you are either above criticism or there is a glitch in the system. For the last time, you are theoretically absolutely correct on every point. My point, and it is a major one, is that theory and on the ground actualities are in no way the same. You claim 55% of illegal immigrants are deported. With an estimated 3 million illegals in the UK(reality is probably far more) that would mean that approx 5,000 of them get deported every day, which would take about 14 jumbo jets daily - and is not happening I don't care what you tell me. I can only think of one muslim that was deported from the UK ever, that tool with a hook for a hand and it took about a decade and countless millions of quid and the locals in Finsbury park were whinging cos they loved him so much.. BTW recent arrivals in Germany (you know who im talking about) receive 370 Eu per month, as opposed to out of work professional Germans that get 390 Euros per month. Bit more than 30 quid a week that you claim.

[stevenl]

Not sure how Ghostnigel is ignorant or ill informed when he is 100% correct. Muslims illegally entering the UK are not subject to UK law or immigration laws. Once they manage to set foot on UK soil they are in for life and will be given full benefits for ever. I wish this was not the case, and that the law was applied to all regardless of status or religious beliefs, but let us deal with on the ground reality. By the way, a close friend is a channel tunnel employee and he tells me that almost all of them have 10k plus sterling in their pockets. Interesting how desperate "refugees" get such a thick wad.

He, and you, are both ignorant about and ill informed on this subject because what you are saying is 100% incorrect!

Everybody in the UK, regardless of their religion, is subject to the law of the land.

Anybody claiming any sort of public fund has to provide evidence that they are a British citizen or, if not, that they are in the UK legally and the conditions of their stay allows them to claim.

Therefore it should be obvious to all that illegal immigrants, whatever their religion, do not get any help from the state; because they are in the UK illegally and if they tried to obtain state aid then not only could they not provide such evidence, the mere attempt to claim would bring the attention of the state upon them and their illegal presence.

Of course, some people do enter illegally and then claim asylum, as do people who have entered legally, and so do get some state aid. The UK is a civilised country and wont let them starve.

But asylum seekers are not given a nice house and bucket loads of cash.

Some may be accommodated in a flat or house, many more are put into hostels or bed and breakfasts and a substantial proportion into an immigration detention centre or, if their asylum claim has been refused, even prison..

As well as being accommodated, they will also be given £35.39 a week with which to buy food and other necessities; plus a bit more, up to a maximum of £5 per week, if they are pregnant or have young children up to the age of 3. They may also get support from various charities, but that, of course, is not funded by the state.

So tell me; how does that add up to £18,600 p.a. as claimed by Ghostnigel? How does that equate to full benefits as claimed by you?

The latest government figures I can find show that between 2011 and 2013 45% of asylum claims were successful, 55% unsuccessful. So much for your claim that they are here for life. Initial figures for 2014 show a similar proportion.

For some facts rather than ignorant and ill informed opinion see

• Claim asylum in the UK
• Asylum support
• Asylum applicants' rights and responsibilities
• Immigration detention in the UK
• Home Office guidance; chapters 46 to 62: detention and removals.

Interesting that a channel tunnel worker is apparently able to stop and search illegal immigrants. Are the police and UKVI aware of his activities? Does he report these illegal immigrants to the police or UKVI so that they can be detained? Or does he simply let them through?

BTW, any support asylum seekers get from the government is means tested; so anyone with that amount of cash wont get anything.

My reply to your post keeps disappearing, you are either above criticism or there is a glitch in the system. For the last time, you are theoretically absolutely correct on every point. My point, and it is a major one, is that theory and on the ground actualities are in no way the same. You claim 55% of illegal immigrants are deported. With an estimated 3 million illegals in the UK(reality is probably far more) that would mean that approx 5,000 of them get deported every day, which would take about 14 jumbo jets daily - and is not happening I don't care what you tell me. I can only think of one muslim that was deported from the UK ever, that tool with a hook for a hand and it took about a decade and countless millions of quid and the locals in Finsbury park were whinging cos they loved him so much.. BTW recent arrivals in Germany (you know who im talking about) receive 370 Eu per month, as opposed to out of work professional Germans that get 390 Euros per month. Bit more than 30 quid a week that you claim.

Please explain the connection between what German asylum seekers are receiving and a US woman who might get sent home from the UK.

[metisdead]

Posts getting a bit off topic have been removed.

[manarak]

I got one question: how do people who have no income get their UK visa / permission to stay?

[simple1]

Not sure how Ghostnigel is ignorant or ill informed when he is 100% correct. Muslims illegally entering the UK are not subject to UK law or immigration laws. Once they manage to set foot on UK soil they are in for life and will be given full benefits for ever. I wish this was not the case, and that the law was applied to all regardless of status or religious beliefs, but let us deal with on the ground reality. By the way, a close friend is a channel tunnel employee and he tells me that almost all of them have 10k plus sterling in their pockets. Interesting how desperate "refugees" get such a thick wad.

He, and you, are both ignorant about and ill informed on this subject because what you are saying is 100% incorrect!

Everybody in the UK, regardless of their religion, is subject to the law of the land.

Anybody claiming any sort of public fund has to provide evidence that they are a British citizen or, if not, that they are in the UK legally and the conditions of their stay allows them to claim.

Therefore it should be obvious to all that illegal immigrants, whatever their religion, do not get any help from the state; because they are in the UK illegally and if they tried to obtain state aid then not only could they not provide such evidence, the mere attempt to claim would bring the attention of the state upon them and their illegal presence.

Of course, some people do enter illegally and then claim asylum, as do people who have entered legally, and so do get some state aid. The UK is a civilised country and wont let them starve.

But asylum seekers are not given a nice house and bucket loads of cash.

Some may be accommodated in a flat or house, many more are put into hostels or bed and breakfasts and a substantial proportion into an immigration detention centre or, if their asylum claim has been refused, even prison..

As well as being accommodated, they will also be given £35.39 a week with which to buy food and other necessities; plus a bit more, up to a maximum of £5 per week, if they are pregnant or have young children up to the age of 3. They may also get support from various charities, but that, of course, is not funded by the state.

So tell me; how does that add up to £18,600 p.a. as claimed by Ghostnigel? How does that equate to full benefits as claimed by you?

The latest government figures I can find show that between 2011 and 2013 45% of asylum claims were successful, 55% unsuccessful. So much for your claim that they are here for life. Initial figures for 2014 show a similar proportion.

For some facts rather than ignorant and ill informed opinion see

• Claim asylum in the UK
• Asylum support
• Asylum applicants' rights and responsibilities
• Immigration detention in the UK
• Home Office guidance; chapters 46 to 62: detention and removals.

Interesting that a channel tunnel worker is apparently able to stop and search illegal immigrants. Are the police and UKVI aware of his activities? Does he report these illegal immigrants to the police or UKVI so that they can be detained? Or does he simply let them through?

BTW, any support asylum seekers get from the government is means tested; so anyone with that amount of cash wont get anything.

My reply to your post keeps disappearing, you are either above criticism or there is a glitch in the system. For the last time, you are theoretically absolutely correct on every point. My point, and it is a major one, is that theory and on the ground actualities are in no way the same. You claim 55% of illegal immigrants are deported. With an estimated 3 million illegals in the UK(reality is probably far more) that would mean that approx 5,000 of them get deported every day, which would take about 14 jumbo jets daily - and is not happening I don't care what you tell me. I can only think of one muslim that was deported from the UK ever, that tool with a hook for a hand and it took about a decade and countless millions of quid and the locals in Finsbury park were whinging cos they loved him so much.. BTW recent arrivals in Germany (you know who im talking about) receive 370 Eu per month, as opposed to out of work professional Germans that get 390 Euros per month. Bit more than 30 quid a week that you claim.

I trust Mods will permit a reply?

The fairly consistent estimation of illegal migrants in the UK is approx 1 million. The vast majority of illegal migrants from countries that require a visa to enter the UK are over stayers. It is claimed the majority of over stayers by way of nationality are Chinese and Indians. Generally deportation of over stayers, not meeting visa conditions and declined asylum applicants is under reported. e.g. 50k students deported for not complying to their visa conditions.

https://thepienews.com/news/uk-to-investigate-deportation-of-50k-international-students/

The complication for deporting, those reaching the legal benchmark for criminal / terrorism offences after serving their jail sentence. declined asylum seekers and so on is HMG must have in-place government to government agreements for returnees; this fact has been repeated on a number of occasions and repeatedly ignored by some posters. In addition home countries for deportees must be declared 'safe' by HMG, as was recently announced for Afghan deportees.

When comparing welfare rates, which is definitely off topic, a bit more accuracy should be utilised.

"first year of unemployment remains covered by unemployment pay. Those who were in paid employment for at least a year beforehand still receive 60% of their net salary for the first year and 67% if they provide for a family. The big drop now happens afterwards. Instead of receiving about half of their former salaries, single people currently get €391 a month".

More detail at:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/20/unemployment-benefit-germany-jobseekers-allowance

Edited April 14, 2016 by simple1

[7by7]

(Nested quotes removed to comply with forum software.)

My reply to your (7by7) post keeps disappearing, you are either above criticism or there is a glitch in the system. For the last time, you are theoretically absolutely correct on every point. My point, and it is a major one, is that theory and on the ground actualities are in no way the same. You claim 55% of illegal immigrants are deported. With an estimated 3 million illegals in the UK(reality is probably far more) that would mean that approx 5,000 of them get deported every day, which would take about 14 jumbo jets daily - and is not happening I don't care what you tell me. I can only think of one muslim that was deported from the UK ever, that tool with a hook for a hand and it took about a decade and countless millions of quid and the locals in Finsbury park were whinging cos they loved him so much.. BTW recent arrivals in Germany (you know who im talking about) receive 370 Eu per month, as opposed to out of work professional Germans that get 390 Euros per month. Bit more than 30 quid a week that you claim.

Please explain the connection between what German asylum seekers are receiving and a US woman who might get sent home from the UK.

And please also explain what asylum seekers in Germany receive has to do with what asylum seekers receive in the UK.

I do not 'claim' that asylum seekers in the UK receive £35.95 per week; it is a fact. See the UK government page I linked to!

Neither did I claim that 55% of illegal immigrants are deported; what I did was link to a UK government page showing that 55% of asylum claims in the period 2011 to 2015 were refused. Of course, once someone's claim for asylum has been refused they are subject to removal.

Of course, not all asylum seekers entered the UK illegally, and not all those in the UK illegally have claimed, or even intend to claim, asylum

You claim there are an estimated 3 million illegal immigrants in the UK.

It is, obviously, impossible to say accurately how many illegal immigrants there are in the UK. The last serious attempt to estimate a reasonably accurate figure was in 2009 when the official estimate was around 500,000; although the anti immigration Migration Watch reckoned that it was about 1 million.

Are you saying that the numbers have increased by 3 to 6 times since then? If so, were did you get the figures from?

The truth about the people and numbers in loud and furious migration debate (published 1/8/15)

Wherever they come from, don’t we have a huge problem with illegal immigrants?

Interestingly, even the lower estimates imply that there are several hundred thousand people living illegally in London and that figure may well be too high. A few years ago the Metropolitan police started checking the immigration status of everyone arrested in London.

They seemed to find immigration irregularities only for a relatively small proportion, perhaps 1%. So unless we believe that irregular migrants are remarkably law-abiding compared with both natives and legal immigrants, it may be that levels of irregular migration are much lower than previously thought.

Even Migration Watch acknowledge that most illegal immigrants in the UK did not enter the UK illegally; that they entered the UL quite legally with a visa of some kind but then overstayed. They have then either remained below the radar, or since attempted to regularise their stay in the UK.

The Guardian article linked to above continues

Moreover, most people here irregularly didn’t come through the Channel tunnel. Most estimates suggest that at least 80% are people who arrived in Britain legally and then overstayed.

The “typical” illegal immigrant is a Brazilian who came here on a tourist visa and decided to stay and make some money working in a restaurant; or an Australian who arrived on a working visa and is now a gym instructor. He or she is not an Eritrean who hid in the back of a lorry – who in any case is quite likely to have a valid claim for refugee status

.

Which, from the information we have, is probably what Mrs James has done; overstayed a visit visa and is now trying to remain. Of course, that is supposition on my part, but the most likely state of affairs based on, as I say, the information the press have given us.

BTW; Abu Hamza was in the UK legally. In 2005, after several years of struggle, he and his followers were ousted from Finsbury Park mosque and it was reclaimed on behalf of the local Muslim community: The battle for the mosque

But what that has to do with Mrs James, or even illegal immigrants and asylum seekers, only you know.

[7by7]

I got one question: how do people who have no income get their UK visa / permission to stay?

The basic answer is that, unless they have sufficient cash savings, they don't!

For the initial visa, if meeting the requirement through income, the applicant's income is ignored; it is the sponsor, their spouse or partner, who has to meet the requirement.

For FLR, after 2.5 years in the UK, and ILR, 2.5 years after FLR, the sponsor's income and/or the applicant's can be used to meet the requirement.

If meeting the requirement through cash savings at the initial visa and FLR stages a minimum of £62,500 is required. For ILR it's £46,500. These savings can be in the name of the sponsor, applicant or both jointly.

Income from most sources can be combined with savings above £16,000 to reduce the amount of each required.

If the financial requirement is not met at any of these application stages then the application will be refused.

That's the simple explanation; for the full details see the financial requirement appendix.

(edited to correct my error on the amount of savings required if meeting the requirement through cash savings at ILR)

Edited April 14, 2016 by 7by7

[Richard W]

I can only think of one muslim that was deported from the UK ever, that tool with a hook for a hand and it took about a decade and countless millions of quid and the locals in Finsbury park were whinging cos they loved him so much.

The one you have in mind (Abu Hamza Al-Masri) established himself in the UK on a spouse 'visa', though possibly he'd only have established himself under the present rules because he was able to switch from a student visa. Maybe he still wouldn't have managed under the present rules. His first wife appears to be ethnically English in origin - her name was 'Valerie Fleming'. He is notoriously immune from deportation, but he was extradited to the USA, and won't be coming back for a long time, if ever.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Richard W

[7by7]

Indeed, Abu Hamza was in the UK legally, though there is a strong argument that he should have been deported after serving his UK prison sentence.

But by then the proceedings to extradite him to the USA to face charges there had begun; which may explain it.

As for the subject this topic has wandered into; the removal of illegal immigrants and failed asylum seekers; from the Migration Observatory

In 2014 there were 38,767 people who were removed from the UK or departed voluntarily after the initiation of removal.

Removals and voluntary departures of asylum applicants and their dependents have declined every year since 2006, reaching 6,788 in 2014.

The UK removed 5,022 foreign national offenders in 2014.

Nearly 6 out of every 10 people (58%) deported or voluntarily removed from the UK in 2014 were nationals of Asian countries. Nationals of India, Pakistan, and China made up 40% of the 2014 total.

So much for the myth that once here illegal immigrants, asylum seekers and foreign criminals, particularly if they are Muslim, are here for life!

More detailed statistics from the UK government can be found at Immigration Statistics: removals and voluntary departures.