SURVEY: Brexit, do you support it?

[nontabury]

I 'm all for Britexit, however I 'm afraid that there will be many others in the UK who will believe the unfounded scare stories that are,and will continue to appear,

We all aware that to some the remain camp is based on unfounded scare stories and the Donald Johnsons of this world stick to facts.

If you are going to copy my post, can you please copy the whole post, Thank you.

[SgtRock]

Lets put the trade argument to bed once and for all.

UK trade deficit with EU hits new record

Figures from the ONS showed that Europe is gradually becoming a less important destination for UK companies. In 2000, 60% of exports went to other EU countries, but the percentage fell to 58% in 2005, 54% in 2010 and 47% in 2015.

And for the intellectually challenged who continually bleat like sheep regarding the UK's Services sector.

Europe has tended to be a less crucial market for UK service sector companies, many of whom have close business links with the US. Since 2000, the percentage of services sector exports going to the EU has remained at around 40%. Taking goods and services together, the share of exports going to the EU has fallen from 54% in 2000 to 44% in 2015.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/10/uk-trade-deficit-hits-new-record-of-24bn-pounds-eu-referendum-brexit

It is a plain and simple fact. The EU is shrinking year on year and needs the UK far more than the UK needs the EU.

[sandyf]

Here's Chatham house on the "Sovereignty Myth"

https://www.chathamhouse.org/sites/files/chathamhouse/publications/research/2016-05-09-britain-eu-sovereignty-myth-niblett-final.pdf

Good article. Some facts the leave brigade would rather keep to themselves.

"Thanks to the decisions of previous Labour and Conservative governments to remain outside the euro, the UK also retains sovereignty over its monetary policy. And, having decided not to join the Schengen zone, it exercises sovereign supervision of its borders, including the right to deny entry to non-EU citizens arriving from the EU’s Schengen area and to EU citizens if they pose a threat to ‘public policy, public health or public security’. While some argue that this threshold to block EU migrants is too high, the home secretary, Theresa May, argues that EU membership supports the UK’s efforts to fight crime and terrorism. The UK also retains opt-outs from aspects of the EU’s common asylum policy, within the international legal constraints that it has accepted as a signatory to the Geneva Conventions and the European Convention on Human Rights, both of which predate the EU.

In addition, the UK retains sovereignty over domestic policing and the bulk of its criminal justice system. The few exceptions where the UK has ‘opted into’ EU legal agreements – such as the European Arrest Warrant and the Schengen Information System – correspond to areas in which the government and police chiefs strongly believe this is to Britain’s advantage.

Nor has EU membership impinged on British sovereignty over its foreign and security policy. EU decisions in these fundamental areas operate on the basis of unanimity. The UK has been free to participate in military operations in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya, despite deep divisions between EU members over their wisdom. It continues to serve as a permanent member of the UN Security Council and to play a leading role in NATO."

The Brexiteers claim that things will change, of course they know that for a fact and cannot be accused of scaremongering.

Sandy.

You are aware that all the opt outs that the UK and other Countries currently have, end in 2020 ?

NATO and the UN Security Council are nothing to do with the EU.

Yes, things are going to change, of course they are. 2020 is the next big date for further Political and Monetary Union of the EU. The changes are actually being sped up towards a Federal State of Europe. I provided a link earlier and it is all available on the EU website.

I am sure that you are also aware that the Board of Chatham House is comprised mainly of serving or now retired MP's.

Most on here are fairly long in the tooth and will have established views on the subject.

I have been around long enough to be of the opinion that the UK is far better off than had things been left to the UK government. I served in Germany in the pre EU days, not a situation anyone would want to go back to. I spent 30 years in manufacturing and quite involved with the EU directive on gas appliances when it was introduced in 1990, unfortunately the British public do not realise how beneficial it was. In the mid eighties I served on a BSI committee and there is some misguided conception that BSI standards stood for something, it wasn't a joke when they said it was 10 years to make an amendment.

I don't dispute what you say but unlike you I just do not have the faith in the UK government to take the country forward on its own. The EU is far from perfect but the better of 2 evils so it is a case of agreeing to disagree.

[nontabury]

Yep the few on here just can't except over 200 ( OUT ) against 52 ( IN'S ).

You think TV is a representative sample Of UK? I hope to god it isn't or we are truly doomed and not just on this issue.

Well unfortunately it's not a representative sample, I 'm all for Britexit, however I 'm afraid that there will be many others in the UK who will believe the unfounded scare stories that are,and will continue to appear, along with these will be a sizable number of young people with no experience of life except having been conditioned in the schools to believe in the failed state of EU. ( p.s one abnormally being 16yr olds in Scotland who I Think can vote on this issue)

Add to these,the large numbers of citizens who are not interested or simple cannot be bothered to find out all the facts, believing their time is better spent watching Coronation Street.

Take some comfort from the fact that higher education correlates with remain. It is the disappointed blue collar underclass who don't get it. As I say, you need to read the history if you want to understand.

Strange that. As last week another American columnist ( Bangkok post)who believes we should give up our independence and remain in the EU,declared it is the uneducated Labour voting Brits who wish to remain in the EU,while the educated Conservative voters are more liable to vote for Britex.

As regards yourself Grouse,I shudder to think what education you did receive. For my part,I am what you would describe as uneducated. Yet when in business in the UK I would have University educated reps come to my place of business, and the first thing they generally spoke, was to call me SIR. To this I would Always instruct them to refer to me by my first name.

Please do not misunderstand me, I am not knocking education, as I realise it's very important,that is why I am now putting my children through an expensive international school.But don't kid yourself that education is everything,you yourself are proof of that fact.

Hilarious!

So the school of hard knocks worked well for you! Great!

I went through the school of hard work!

Since you ask, grammar school followed by Durham University where I learned semi-conductor physics.

Then life long education from reading widely and generally keeping informed.

Be careful with "international schools". Some are not all they're cracked up to be.

Your American journalist is incorrect. Yes, membership of the EU has guaranteed much better rights for British workers (even allowing for the cynical opt outs we negotiated). However, tertiary education is strongly correlated with Remain. I won't revisit the Cambridge v Peterborough comparison again....

A life time reading of comics,does not produce an educated person, try something that helps with critical thinking.

Thank you for your advise re International schools, I do agree,and that is why I did my homework on which school to send them to.Not on what the snobbish Thai elite thinks is the best,but on the educational achievements and personal qualities of their ex-pupils.By the same reasoning I also came to the conclusion that in the best interest of my children and of the U.K. It would be far better for the UK to exit this inefficient organisation.

[sandyf]

Lets put the trade argument to bed once and for all.

UK trade deficit with EU hits new record

Figures from the ONS showed that Europe is gradually becoming a less important destination for UK companies. In 2000, 60% of exports went to other EU countries, but the percentage fell to 58% in 2005, 54% in 2010 and 47% in 2015.

And for the intellectually challenged who continually bleat like sheep regarding the UK's Services sector.

Europe has tended to be a less crucial market for UK service sector companies, many of whom have close business links with the US. Since 2000, the percentage of services sector exports going to the EU has remained at around 40%. Taking goods and services together, the share of exports going to the EU has fallen from 54% in 2000 to 44% in 2015.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/10/uk-trade-deficit-hits-new-record-of-24bn-pounds-eu-referendum-brexit

It is a plain and simple fact. The EU is shrinking year on year and needs the UK far more than the UK needs the EU.

Maybe you can explain to people how UK manufacturing is going to extricate itself from the current EU legislation and continue to trade with the EU or any other major economy.

The transition to new legislation is not going to happen overnight and is going to be expensive, both financially and in terms of jobs but no one wants to talk about that.

[SgtRock]

Good article. Some facts the leave brigade would rather keep to themselves.

"Thanks to the decisions of previous Labour and Conservative governments to remain outside the euro, the UK also retains sovereignty over its monetary policy. And, having decided not to join the Schengen zone, it exercises sovereign supervision of its borders, including the right to deny entry to non-EU citizens arriving from the EU’s Schengen area and to EU citizens if they pose a threat to ‘public policy, public health or public security’. While some argue that this threshold to block EU migrants is too high, the home secretary, Theresa May, argues that EU membership supports the UK’s efforts to fight crime and terrorism. The UK also retains opt-outs from aspects of the EU’s common asylum policy, within the international legal constraints that it has accepted as a signatory to the Geneva Conventions and the European Convention on Human Rights, both of which predate the EU.

In addition, the UK retains sovereignty over domestic policing and the bulk of its criminal justice system. The few exceptions where the UK has ‘opted into’ EU legal agreements – such as the European Arrest Warrant and the Schengen Information System – correspond to areas in which the government and police chiefs strongly believe this is to Britain’s advantage.

Nor has EU membership impinged on British sovereignty over its foreign and security policy. EU decisions in these fundamental areas operate on the basis of unanimity. The UK has been free to participate in military operations in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya, despite deep divisions between EU members over their wisdom. It continues to serve as a permanent member of the UN Security Council and to play a leading role in NATO."

The Brexiteers claim that things will change, of course they know that for a fact and cannot be accused of scaremongering.

Sandy.

You are aware that all the opt outs that the UK and other Countries currently have, end in 2020 ?

NATO and the UN Security Council are nothing to do with the EU.

Yes, things are going to change, of course they are. 2020 is the next big date for further Political and Monetary Union of the EU. The changes are actually being sped up towards a Federal State of Europe. I provided a link earlier and it is all available on the EU website.

I am sure that you are also aware that the Board of Chatham House is comprised mainly of serving or now retired MP's.

Most on here are fairly long in the tooth and will have established views on the subject.

I have been around long enough to be of the opinion that the UK is far better off than had things been left to the UK government. I served in Germany in the pre EU days, not a situation anyone would want to go back to. I spent 30 years in manufacturing and quite involved with the EU directive on gas appliances when it was introduced in 1990, unfortunately the British public do not realise how beneficial it was. In the mid eighties I served on a BSI committee and there is some misguided conception that BSI standards stood for something, it wasn't a joke when they said it was 10 years to make an amendment.

I don't dispute what you say but unlike you I just do not have the faith in the UK government to take the country forward on its own. The EU is far from perfect but the better of 2 evils so it is a case of agreeing to disagree.

You might just be surprised at how close our disagreements are.

Whilst I will not, and never will disagree that the EU, in its early days was beneficial for the UK. Those days are over and the EU is actually now dragging the UK down.

The next 4 Countries that will join the EU currently have an average monthly salary of euro 300 - 400. Guess what is going to happen ?

Whilst it is an admiral ideology to try and better less fortunate Countries. All that happens is that the richer Countries are eroded until an equilibrium is reached.

It might be admiral but it is extremely flawed.

[Mosha]

As someone earlier said the views of old fart expats are not representative of views back home. On my old home village In W. Yorks's FB page, I asker what the feeling was. This at one time was solid Labour country. The sentiment is overwhelmingly out.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

[SgtRock]

Lets put the trade argument to bed once and for all.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/10/uk-trade-deficit-hits-new-record-of-24bn-pounds-eu-referendum-brexit

It is a plain and simple fact. The EU is shrinking year on year and needs the UK far more than the UK needs the EU.

Maybe you can explain to people how UK manufacturing is going to extricate itself from the current EU legislation and continue to trade with the EU or any other major economy.

The transition to new legislation is not going to happen overnight and is going to be expensive, both financially and in terms of jobs but no one wants to talk about that.

UK Manufacturers that are currently trading with the rest of the EU are complying with all EU legislation. Why would that suddenly change because the UK exits the EU ?

What new legislation ? Are you aware of something that I am not ? It is a tad difficult to have a discussion on something, that to date, does not exist.

[billd766]

How about this from a former PM of the UK?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36263256

[SgtRock]

How about this from a former PM of the UK?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36263256

"I think most people would agree that it's not British or in tune with the Churchillian spirit to simply disengage when Ukraine is in turmoil. It is not British to retreat to Europe's sidelines when there is a common fight against illegal immigration and terrorism.

I think it gives you a measure of the man when he thinks a potential Brexit is anything to do with the Ukraine.

[Jip99]

As someone earlier said the views of old fart expats are not representative of views back home. On my old home village In W. Yorks's FB page, I asker what the feeling was. This at one time was solid Labour country. The sentiment is overwhelmingly out.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

I have just come back from 8 weeks in the UK and that mirrors my experience - the difference is that most of the people I spoke with with were old conservative voters.

There seems to be a consensus against Cameron so every time he says "this disaster will happen if we leave" nobody believes him.

[cumgranosalum]

"Brexit will actually reduce British sovereignty"

"Despite Great Britain sacrificing some sovereignty to the European Union, its parliament is still responsible for more than 98% of public spending, and has the final say on the majority of policy that voters care about, research published today (9 May) found.

http://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-europe/news/chatham-house-brexit-will-actually-reduce-british-sovereignty/

[slipperylobster]

Wait until next year,

I am sure Trump will sort it out.

[Linzz]

Take some comfort from the fact that higher education correlates with remain. It is the disappointed blue collar underclass who don't get it. As I say, you need to read the history if you want to understand.

Snobby remark

Sorry if the truth hurts....

Now that's also a childish remark.

All people need to hear from you is your opinion on BREXIT which you are entitled to give. But no one is really interested in your opinion of yourself or even your opinion of others. In fact it's boorish and uncultured to be self opinionated and to indulge in condescension towards other members. Your divide of for or against BREXIT as related to education is simplistic and artificial.

[cumgranosalum]

Absolutely disgusting that Farage isn't allowed to speak at the most important TV debate two days before the vote. Yet more proof that this referendum is being rigged.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/668983/Farage-fury-BBC-bosses-freeze-him-out-televised-Brexit-debate

you missed out "allegedly" - the story comes from Farage.

Well spotted. Who do you expect the story to come from? Camoron?

Most news stories emanate from news agencies - the first anyone heard of this one was when it came from the offices of UKIP.

Parties release policy statements etc but seldom actually start a story - the papers then decide what they want to carry.....if you look at which papers are carrying it first then you get a further impression of what is going on.

the BBC actually has pretty open rules on who is invited to political debates and they relate to the size of the party etc etc....as yet I haven't read any other stories about this other than the one released by UKIP.

[cumgranosalum]

Take some comfort from the fact that higher education correlates with remain. It is the disappointed blue collar underclass who don't get it. As I say, you need to read the history if you want to understand.

Snobby remark

Sorry if the truth hurts....

Now that's also a childish remark.

All people need to hear from you is your opinion on BREXIT which you are entitled to give. But no one is really interested in your opinion of yourself or even your opinion of others. In fact it's boorish and uncultured to be self opinionated and to indulge in condescension towards other members. Your divide of for or against BREXIT as related to education is simplistic and artificial.

how do we apply this to your post here?

It is a well established that the Brexiteers are from a less educated demographic

"analysis of around 30,000 Britons reveals that, broadly, those who would vote to leave the EU tend to have left school before their 17th birthday, to have few or no advanced academic qualifications, to be over 55 years old, and to work in less secure, lower-income jobs. In contrast, those who want Britain to remain a member of the EU tend to be younger, to be more highly educated, and to have more financially secure and professional jobs." - Chatham House

Edited May 11, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[Johnyo]

UK.....Get your borders back, control yourself, tell foreign folk to go back to their country to make their place great, the UK forefathers paid a high price to make a great country, a small island..

You're not the only country that needs to control it's borders. In Spain there is a group of immigrants, around 800,000 of them, they don't speak our language, don't pay taxes, only socialise amongst themselves, use our infrastructures and arrived to our country with next to no money. It's about time we send these foreign folk back to their country. Retired Expat Brits out now!!!! Edited May 11, 2016 by Johnyo

[cumgranosalum]

UK.....Get your borders back, control yourself, tell foreign folk to go back to their country to make their place great, the UK forefathers paid a high price to make a great country, a small island..

Define "UK forefathers"

[Grouse]

I am flattered.

Ok, here are a few points to consider.

While a union of European Nations is considered to be a good idea to prevent the conflicts of WW1 & WW2, the concept of a "United States of Europe" as proposed by Robert Schuman, fails to take into account the vastly different economies and cultures of the countries comprising the Continent of Europe.

A pact to pool steel and coal production between 2 countries cannot be extrapolated to 20 odd independent Nations without a centralised governing bureaucracy, and of course, a common currency.

The founding fathers of the EU obviously were aware of this, and so the present structure of an unelected Commission came about.

Through various treaties, Rome, 1958, Maastricht, 1993, Lisbon, 2009, the Commission has consolidated its power and reduced the Parliaments of participating countries to powerless shells.

All this without the consent of the population because in those countries that had referenda, the governments lied about the effects the treaties would have.

To concentrate on the UK, Britain pays a lot of money into the EU and has no say in how it is spent. New aerodromes in Spain, still unused, an excellent road network there and in Portugal, massive subsidies to French farmers.

Compare that to the UK where no new roads have been built for 20 years, the existing ones are not maintained, and The countries busiest airport is the most under-developed of any 1st world nation.

It has allowed unlimited immigration of mostly unskilled workers, with no criminal records check.

There is over-crowding in schools, hospitals are underfunded and overworked, and there is a huge shortage of affordable housing.

The very generous UK benefits system has encouraged this immigration, not all from the EU obviously, and all "free movement" has achieved is the flow of economic migrants from the poorer countries into UK and Germany.

Under the present system the British people have no say as to where and how their money is spent, who can enter the country, and what laws are imposed upon them by the EU bureaucracy.

You remember the Directives regarding incandescent light bulbs, vacuum cleaners; well the latest plan is to restrict the availability of kettles and toasters!

This is just an example of the interfering nature of the EU Commission.

I presume you are aware of the latest pearl of wisdom from Jean-Claude Juncker, wherein he calls for Prime Ministers not to listen to their voters? Then the EU has the temerity to lecture other countries on democracy!

Then of course, we come to the problem of the ECHR, although not an intrinsic part of the EU, which consistently undermines the authority of the British Government, and prevents the removal of criminals and terrorists.

As to the economic arguments for leaving, obviously one cannot predict the future, but the UK has successfully traded throughout the world for hundreds of years, and there is no reason why this cannot continue.

The other countries of the EU still need what Britain produces.

To précis, the EU is very expensive for the UK, dictates policies and makes laws without the consent of the people, and is a failed experiment in "big government", and the worst fear of the EU Commission is that a British exit would trigger a similar exodus from other countries whose people are waking up to the fact that being in the EU is not worth the trouble and expense.

Thank you for taking the time present a reasoned argument

I have been banging on here about the fact that it is a complex issue in my opinion. On balance, I conclude the benefits out weigh the disadvantages

A number of EU countries have substantially better living conditions and social structures than we have. I found both Germany and Denmark were far in front of the U.K.

Some of your comments I agree with, others not

For example I think EU social democratic principles are a useful counterweight to Tory and American red in tooth and claw capitalism

I also think that banning incandescent lamps was a good move

Again, thanks for the useful input

[Grouse]

Lets put the trade argument to bed once and for all.

UK trade deficit with EU hits new record

Figures from the ONS showed that Europe is gradually becoming a less important destination for UK companies. In 2000, 60% of exports went to other EU countries, but the percentage fell to 58% in 2005, 54% in 2010 and 47% in 2015.

And for the intellectually challenged who continually bleat like sheep regarding the UK's Services sector.

Europe has tended to be a less crucial market for UK service sector companies, many of whom have close business links with the US. Since 2000, the percentage of services sector exports going to the EU has remained at around 40%. Taking goods and services together, the share of exports going to the EU has fallen from 54% in 2000 to 44% in 2015.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/10/uk-trade-deficit-hits-new-record-of-24bn-pounds-eu-referendum-brexit

It is a plain and simple fact. The EU is shrinking year on year and needs the UK far more than the UK needs the EU.

Do you really understand percentages?

As a percentage EU share of our exports has been falling

However, allowing for cyclical variations, the value of that trade is not much changed

It is exports to non EU countries that has increased. That also gives the lie to the idea that the EU sometimes holds us back

Be aware that the EU generally is coming out of recession and I would expect our exports there to increase if noir as a percentage of total exports

[Grouse]

Yep the few on here just can't except over 200 ( OUT ) against 52 ( IN'S ).

You think TV is a representative sample Of UK? I hope to god it isn't or we are truly doomed and not just on this issue.

Well unfortunately it's not a representative sample, I 'm all for Britexit, however I 'm afraid that there will be many others in the UK who will believe the unfounded scare stories that are,and will continue to appear, along with these will be a sizable number of young people with no experience of life except having been conditioned in the schools to believe in the failed state of EU. ( p.s one abnormally being 16yr olds in Scotland who I Think can vote on this issue)
Add to these,the large numbers of citizens who are not interested or simple cannot be bothered to find out all the facts, believing their time is better spent watching Coronation Street.

Take some comfort from the fact that higher education correlates with remain. It is the disappointed blue collar underclass who don't get it. As I say, you need to read the history if you want to understand.

Strange that. As last week another American columnist ( Bangkok post)who believes we should give up our independence and remain in the EU,declared it is the uneducated Labour voting Brits who wish to remain in the EU,while the educated Conservative voters are more liable to vote for Britex.

As regards yourself Grouse,I shudder to think what education you did receive. For my part,I am what you would describe as uneducated. Yet when in business in the UK I would have University educated reps come to my place of business, and the first thing they generally spoke, was to call me SIR. To this I would Always instruct them to refer to me by my first name.

Please do not misunderstand me, I am not knocking education, as I realise it's very important,that is why I am now putting my children through an expensive international school.But don't kid yourself that education is everything,you yourself are proof of that fact.

Hilarious!

So the school of hard knocks worked well for you! Great!

I went through the school of hard work!

Since you ask, grammar school followed by Durham University where I learned semi-conductor physics.

Then life long education from reading widely and generally keeping informed.

Be careful with "international schools". Some are not all they're cracked up to be.

Your American journalist is incorrect. Yes, membership of the EU has guaranteed much better rights for British workers (even allowing for the cynical opt outs we negotiated). However, tertiary education is strongly correlated with Remain. I won't revisit the Cambridge v Peterborough comparison again....

A life time reading of comics,does not produce an educated person, try something that helps with critical thinking.

Thank you for your advise re International schools, I do agree,and that is why I did my homework on which school to send them to.Not on what the snobbish Thai elite thinks is the best,but on the educational achievements and personal qualities of their ex-pupils.By the same reasoning I also came to the conclusion that in the best interest of my children and of the U.K. It would be far better for the UK to exit this inefficient organisation.

It IS inefficient! At least we agree on something!

My comics are VIZ, Private Eye, and The Economist!

[SgtRock]

Here comes the next exciting episode of EU drama.

Forget Brexit or Grexit, €360bn of bad loans within a fragmented Italian banking sector could be the biggest threat of all

Italy is facing decisions that “will shape not just the future of the Italian banking system but that of the European one as well”, according to analysts at the Hamburg-based bank Berenberg.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/10/battle-prop-up-italy-banks-eu-brexit-grexit-bad-loans

[Grouse]

How about this from a former PM of the UK?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36263256

"I think most people would agree that it's not British or in tune with the Churchillian spirit to simply disengage when Ukraine is in turmoil. It is not British to retreat to Europe's sidelines when there is a common fight against illegal immigration and terrorism.

I think it gives you a measure of the man when he thinks a potential Brexit is anything to do with the Ukraine.

Dear me

I explained at length about EU soft power

We have more clout when we stand together. This is NOT 1914

[Grouse]

Take some comfort from the fact that higher education correlates with remain. It is the disappointed blue collar underclass who don't get it. As I say, you need to read the history if you want to understand.

Snobby remark

Sorry if the truth hurts....

Now that's also a childish remark.

All people need to hear from you is your opinion on BREXIT which you are entitled to give. But no one is really interested in your opinion of yourself or even your opinion of others. In fact it's boorish and uncultured to be self opinionated and to indulge in condescension towards other members. Your divide of for or against BREXIT as related to education is simplistic and artificial.

Like it or not, educated people are more likely to vote to Remain. You, know, statistics? Standard deviations and all that?

I don't claim to be cultured. Educated? Yes! Opinionated? Yes! Cultured? Re-reading Macbeth does that count?

[Mosha]

I'll with what Winnie said.

“If Britain must choose between Europe and the open sea, she must always choose the open sea”.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

[sandyf]

One of the big issues with the leave campaign is to remove the right of free movement. In doing so they will deny the UK population that same right, but of course that doesn't matter. If a Brexiteer doesn't want to live in Europe why should he be bothered about anyone else, after all who would want to go and live in Europe.

"But a lot of Britons do take advantage of free movement to live elsewhere in the EU; they are sipping wine in the south of France, sipping wine in the Italian hills, sipping wine on the Spanish coast... In fact, there are 1.26 million UK citizens living outside the UK in the EU's other 27 member states. "

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/eu-referendum-how-many-uk-citizens-live-european-union-where-infographic-1526116

[Kwasaki]

UK.....Get your borders back, control yourself, tell foreign folk to go back to their country to make their place great, the UK forefathers paid a high price to make a great country, a small island..

You're not the only country that needs to control it's borders. In Spain there is a group of immigrants, around 800,000 of them, they don't speak our language, don't pay taxes, only socialise amongst themselves, use our infrastructures and arrived to our country with next to no money. It's about time we send these foreign folk back to their country. Retired Expat Brits out now!!!!

What a load of rubbish, Spain is doing really well in the EU are they, more probable the next Greece.

[Johnyo]

UK.....Get your borders back, control yourself, tell foreign folk to go back to their country to make their place great, the UK forefathers paid a high price to make a great country, a small island..

You're not the only country that needs to control it's borders. In Spain there is a group of immigrants, around 800,000 of them, they don't speak our language, don't pay taxes, only socialise amongst themselves, use our who can infrastructures and arrived to our country and with next to no money. It's about time we send these foreignrdets tifolk back to their country. Retired Expat Brits out now!!!!

What a load of rubbish, Spain is doing really well in the EU are they, more probable the next Greece.

Are you Spanish? Do you have to live amongst these ignorant poor immigrants? Are the British the only ones who can control borders? We can't decide who can and can't live in our country? We don't want the retired British ex pats.,nothing to do with money.They are just despicable parasites who don't integrate and the majority have no money. The only retired expats that should be allowed to live in Spain should at least speak our language and have more cash than the meager pension the majority have to spend. Edited May 11, 2016 by Johnyo

[cumgranosalum]

UK.....Get your borders back, control yourself, tell foreign folk to go back to their country to make their place great, the UK forefathers paid a high price to make a great country, a small island..

Define "UK forefathers"

My dad, Sgt.Major WW2, both my grandfathers, gassed in the trenches of WW1..

..and the EU formed to prevent that from ever happening again. Do you seriously think you are the only person to have family in WW1 & 2 ????

Edited May 11, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[SgtRock]

One of the big issues with the leave campaign is to remove the right of free movement. In doing so they will deny the UK population that same right, but of course that doesn't matter. If a Brexiteer doesn't want to live in Europe why should he be bothered about anyone else, after all who would want to go and live in Europe.

"But a lot of Britons do take advantage of free movement to live elsewhere in the EU; they are sipping wine in the south of France, sipping wine in the Italian hills, sipping wine on the Spanish coast... In fact, there are 1.26 million UK citizens living outside the UK in the EU's other 27 member states. "

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/eu-referendum-how-many-uk-citizens-live-european-union-where-infographic-1526116

How many of them are self funding retirees and how many are married to Nationals of the Countries that they have moved to ?

I do not think these people need to worry.

Given Spain's current financial predicament, how many of those self funding retirees do you think that they will want to kick out ?