Chaeng Wattana Retirement Extension Report

[DogNo1]

I successfully obtained my extension and a re-entry permit at Chaeng Wattana today. I arrived at 10:23 and got a queue number of 175 so I didn't get to see an agent until after lunch. It went pretty quickly after that and I had my extension in my hand at 2:00. There were three extra forms to complete in front of the agent and then the application was reviewed by two more agents until it was finally signed. There were no extra documents requested. The application and income affidavit were accepted without question. That process went pretty smoothly. Next, I got a number for the re-entry queue and headed downstairs to get a photocopy of my new extension page. When I got back upstairs, there was about a 20 minute wait until my number was called. I handed over my application, my passport and the fee. A full hour later, I was finally called to pickup my passport. During the time that I was waiting, about 5-6 people were called to pick up their passports. Then the ten people who had handed over their passports an hour earlier previously were called in quick succession. I asked the agent who delivered the passport why it had taken so long and she said that their queue machine had broken which is true. I can't understand, though, why it should take an hour to process ten permits. As I was waiting, I saw a male agent in the middle cubicle (#14) examining each page of a series of passports while chatting with other people in the cubicle and checking things on his computer. I wonder if he is the only person granting the re-entry permits. At an examination speed of about 5-6 minutes for each passport, perhaps it does indeed take an hour to process ten permits. From my point of view, it should take about 30 seconds to process a permit. Was the extension granted today? Good. That means that the applicant data was triple-checked. Is the application complete and does the name on the application and passport match? Done. Stamp the re-entry permit effective for the period of stay. Time to process ten applications - ten minutes max. Does everyone's experience match with this? Is there any way to speed up the re-entry permit process? It doesn't seem reasonable that it should take as long to get a re-entry permit as it does to get the extension of stay. Could it be that the one male officer is the only person approving the permits?

Subject two: noise pollution. From about 11:00 to 1:00 there were some men and women advertising some kind of drink in front of a store on the basement level. Their amplified voices were deafening. The sound filled the whole large complex. I know that the deafening sound goes on at karaoke bars but it's terrible when it's at a place where you must be and can't escape. Apparently noise is the new smoking. It's ubiquitous and generally accepted. It's the reason that I stay on a high floor in an expensive apartment where the staff will take care of any bothersome noises.

[BritTim]

On time for a retirement extension and re-entry permit, just be happy you do not need to apply in Chiang Mai. Arrive at 10:23 in the office there, and they will laugh at your expectation that you will get the extension (let alone the re-entry permit) that day.

[CousinEddie]

HINT:
Go after 1PM.

After lunch, there are always a few people from the morning session that didn't want to wait thru the lunch hour. They abandon their place in line.

If you sit there and watch the numbers being called, you will notice a few no-shows. Walk right in and hand over your paperwork.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Op, did CW ask/require u to fill out the new 3 page questionaire asking about friends, places u visit, bank accounts, social meda accounts, etc etc?

[AlfonsV]

You must be very lucky! In Chiang Mai you have to get up at 4 am, arrive at the office at 5 am, waiting on a hard chair in an unofficial queue till 8:30, getting the official q-no 19. Waiting outside is specially nice in cold season, in hot season and in raining season.

As they need all the morning for the first 18 numbers you have to come again after lunch. You are called at 2:15 instead of 2:00 (because of an emergency case before you) and the next step is done at 2:30. Everything is checked and stamped, your passport would be ready to get it back. But ! There is the signature or review of a higher officer needed who is coming from another office after it's closing time. They say you can get your passport at 5 pm (for sure you go there earlier) but the last people will get it at 5:45. For the re-entry you have to apply the next day and the procedure is going some faster, i.e. instead of 12+ hours only half a day (including go and back). Not to mention people from Lamphun, Lampang or elsewhere who have to travel to Chiang Mai because those provinces have no own immigration office.

So what do you complain?

[DogNo1]

I am, indeed, very glad that I can do my extension at Chaeng Wattana rather than at Chiang Mai. I did notice that people didn't appear for several numbers that were called after lunch. I think that I will take the suggestion and show up around 1:00 next year. I just need to find a way to finesse gettiing the re-entry permit. A German couple who did their extension and re-entry at the same time as I did yesterday got their extension and re-entry queue numbers at the same time. They took advantage of the sign on re-entry cubicle #13 that instructs people whose queue number has passed to report directly to cubicule #13. The wife submitted the re-entry applications immediately after they got their extensions while the husband went to get the photocopies of the new extensions. The agent who accepted the applications noticed that their copies of the new extension were missing and asked for the copies to be provided. The husband soon appeared and provided the copies. It was a neat trick and allowed them to get about 35 queue numbers in front of me. I was still sitting there an hour after they had left.

None of the three forms that I had to fill out asked for all of the personal data about my activities, etc. One form was required to certify that my address was correct. Another certified that I understood the penalties for overstay. I'm not sure what the third form was but I didn't provide any of the information that it requested. I just signed and dated it. That may have been the form that TallGuyJohn was asking about. It was in Thai and I'm not sure what it was about but the agent seemed happy with only my name and signature.

My extreme sympathies to the people in the Chiang Mai office jurisdiction. My extension and re-entry permit took me "just" eight hours yesterday. It seemed longer because I was very tired out after e-filing my 2015 tax return. I must say that when I filed at 3:00 AM on Monday using Turbotax, the return was immediately submitted to the feds by Intuit and then accepted by the IRS about ten minutes later. I must talk with my financial advisor about getting rid of my K-1 generating investments. Completing the K-1 forms for the tax return is very tedious. For some reason, my K-1s are not reported by my brokerages, USAA and Fidelity. This year I had to pay a $284 penalty for not submitting quarterly estimated tax payments. The penalty is preferable to making the advance payments and I get to use the money for a year.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I was very tired out after e-filing my 2015 tax return. I must say that when I filed at 3:00 AM on Monday using Turbotax, the return was immediately submitted to the feds by Intuit and then accepted by the IRS about ten minutes later. I must talk with my financial advisor about getting rid of my K-1 generating investments. Completing the K-1 forms for the tax return is very tedious. For some reason, my K-1s are not reported by my brokerages, USAA and Fidelity. This year I had to pay a $284 penalty for not submitting quarterly estimated tax payments. The penalty is preferable to making the advance payments and I get to use the money for a year.

The Immigration questionnaire I was asking about is, all by itself, a 3 page document asking about bank accounts, social media accounts, people you know both farang and Thai, and on and on and on. Based on your description above, it doesn't sound like you received that questionnaire. Which is good!

As for the K-1s you mention above re U.S. tax returns, normally, those forms are mailed directly to the MLP partner (the person holding units in the MLP) by the MLP. They're not part of, nor do they come from, the brokerage where your investments are held or the annual 1099 tax form the brokerage sends out.

I use TurboTax Online also, and the 3rd level plan of theirs, premier or something like that, makes it pretty easy to manually enter the requested K-1 data into their system, and then it keeps track of your info year to year because sometimes you have accrued things that can benefit you in a future year.

I'm not a tax lawyer or particular expert, but AFAIK, it's not a good thing to have repeated underpayments of your taxes, especially by large amounts. If you were to continue that pattern, in addition to penalties, I'd be concerned you might find the IRS requiring mandatory withholding from your income sources. Also, I'm thinking, a $284 underpayment penalty, which you wouldn't have had to pay otherwise, is more than going to wipe out any benefit you might have had from keeping the tax funds during the year.

[KhunBENQ]

The forms that the OP describes are not new in any way and have nothing to do with the three pages full of personal data that are currently hot in discussion (home address, names of parents, emergency contact address in Thailand, use of social media, places frequently visited etc.pp.).

I got the forms that the OP describes years ago in Khon Kaen already.

As far as I remember the form in Thai only was another confirmation that I will not work, here on retirement.

Not sure though, simply forgot it.

Just found a scan of one the forms from 2013.

It was bilingual and confirming my reason to stay (retirement).

Somewhat redudant but who cares.

And nothing to do with the currently discussed new forms.

Edited April 21, 2016 by KhunBENQ

[DogNo1]

I did not receive that three-page questionnaire. My problem with my K-1s is partly due to the information on the forms that I receive being different than the K-1s that Turbotax requires for complettion. I will think about paying estimated taxes. My income has been stable for the past four years. I think that Turbotax allows you have four payments debited from your payment source (my checking account.) I would not mind if I had a mandatory withholding from my brokerage account though. It doesn't make sense to forfeit the tax penalty every year so I'm going to investigate making quarterly payments now. It would have been better if I had done it when I filed on Monday. If I have an unanticipated capital gain like I did on Fairholme last year, though, I will still have a significant underpayment.

[smo]

I was there yesterday too for the same travails and it was a rather surprisingly "pleasant" experience for me. Maybe I finally have gotten into my "thai" groove and learned to flow with the local "rythm" (and noise.)

Right away, upon my arrival around mid morning sometimes after 10 I got a number that was double digit, there were roughly twenty people in front of me, so I knew that my turn wouldn't come before noon. Thus allowed myself a leisurely exploration of the basement floor where I discovered the food court and a small bookstore with shelves full of woolworth classics at the front! The "noise pollution" previously mentioned by the op was a drink commercial with comedians acting on a small stage in a corner tucked away next to the food court. Yes there were shoutings between the actors, but strangely that brought on a rather relaxing effect, making me feel like, hey, this is just like at my local mall, maybe next time there will be a drag queen coronation going on if I came in on the right day!

I was seen about one hour after the office reopened following the hourlong lunch break. The only inquiry, asked rather in a low keyed manner by the female officer, was how much roughly in baht was my declared (in dollars) monthly income. The three additional forms were quickly produced and signed, the one I seemed to need help with was the 3rd form everybody here was talking about. It was mostly in thai, and I noticed there was a line for a witness to fill in after mine. The officer promtly showed me where to sign and whisked it off my fingers afterward. She then got the "money shot" stamping done and my passport was shown around at two more posts before it was delivered back to me with a smile by the final officer.

Next of course was the re-entry thing. I got my queue number, quickly sprinted downstairs to get a copy of the new extension and came back and waited for my number to be called. During that time I had the opportunity to observe what was going on: the ten at a time processing, the breaking down of the queue machine (by this time I had gotten used to the "hilarious" queue number calling PA that another thread here from last year had warned me about), which had the officers and helpers running around alternatingly calling out numbers in both Thai and English. The punchline was when they called my number they misread the end number (mine 3 and they called out 8) so suddenly my number was skipped ahead, the applicant with the number 8 showed his face, got chased out, then they called my number, when shown the correct face (mine) the officer and her helper apologetically laughed and mumbled their mistake.

The re-entry episode lasted about one hour. I got out of the room about 3:15, the toilet cleaning ladies told me to hurry when I asked if the food court was still open. I rushed downstairs, it was closed already but the big fruit stand outside at the central court was still open. I noticed one of the applicants before me got himself a bag of green mangoes, I myself got what I wanted at the food court, a generous serving of sweet cantaloupe, not a baht more than what I normally pay in my neighborhood.

Hmm, I said to myself while walking out of the football field size lobby and munching on the cantaloupe, I probably come back here time and again for the next twenty years or so, maybe next time the cleaning ladies would recognise me already and could put in a word or two for the officers to hurry up!

[DogNo1]

Wow! smo's experience seems to match mine exactly but he deosn't seem to be as sensitive to noise as I am. From 11:00 to 1:00 I had two cups of coffee at a coffe shop downstairs and then a bowl of Char Shiu Ramen at the Konnichiwa restaurant. I was also out around 3:15 but had to negotiate the taxi queue with people often jumping the line. Around 3:35 there was a good stream of taxis arriving so I got one then. I shared the ride with a Greek guy going to a destination near mine and we were lucky to get a savvy and pleasant driver. You have to be careful at Chaeng Wattana because around 4:00 the taxis mostly stop coming.

I'm still curious about how the re-entry permits are processed. Could it be that the male officer in cubicle #14 does them all and the women sitting at the back do the stamping for his authorizing signature? Why would each page of the passports need to be slowly examined with the computer often consulted? Could it be some security operation designed to catch people with visa or extension irregularities? Whatever it is, it sure slows the process way down. My memory is a little hazy but didn't they process re-entry permits a lot faster 6-7 years ago? I think that I remember them processing about 30 per hour.

[gk10002000]

I did not receive that three-page questionnaire. My problem with my K-1s is partly due to the information on the forms that I receive being different than the K-1s that Turbotax requires for complettion. I will think about paying estimated taxes. My income has been stable for the past four years. I think that Turbotax allows you have four payments debited from your payment source (my checking account.) I would not mind if I had a mandatory withholding from my brokerage account though. It doesn't make sense to forfeit the tax penalty every year so I'm going to investigate making quarterly payments now. It would have been better if I had done it when I filed on Monday. If I have an unanticipated capital gain like I did on Fairholme last year, though, I will still have a significant underpayment.

Relative to the K1s and MLPs, I avoid MLPs because even in my IRAs there would be paperwork, which shouldn't be necessary in an IRA but it is.

[Mike45]

I am, indeed, very glad that I can do my extension at Chaeng Wattana rather than at Chiang Mai. I did notice that people didn't appear for several numbers that were called after lunch. I think that I will take the suggestion and show up around 1:00 next year. I just need to find a way to finesse gettiing the re-entry permit. A German couple who did their extension and re-entry at the same time as I did yesterday got their extension and re-entry queue numbers at the same time. They took advantage of the sign on re-entry cubicle #13 that instructs people whose queue number has passed to report directly to cubicule #13. The wife submitted the re-entry applications immediately after they got their extensions while the husband went to get the photocopies of the new extensions. The agent who accepted the applications noticed that their copies of the new extension were missing and asked for the copies to be provided. The husband soon appeared and provided the copies. It was a neat trick and allowed them to get about 35 queue numbers in front of me. I was still sitting there an hour after they had left.

None of the three forms that I had to fill out asked for all of the personal data about my activities, etc. One form was required to certify that my address was correct. Another certified that I understood the penalties for overstay. I'm not sure what the third form was but I didn't provide any of the information that it requested. I just signed and dated it. That may have been the form that TallGuyJohn was asking about. It was in Thai and I'm not sure what it was about but the agent seemed happy with only my name and signature.

My extreme sympathies to the people in the Chiang Mai office jurisdiction. My extension and re-entry permit took me "just" eight hours yesterday. It seemed longer because I was very tired out after e-filing my 2015 tax return. I must say that when I filed at 3:00 AM on Monday using Turbotax, the return was immediately submitted to the feds by Intuit and then accepted by the IRS about ten minutes later. I must talk with my financial advisor about getting rid of my K-1 generating investments. Completing the K-1 forms for the tax return is very tedious. For some reason, my K-1s are not reported by my brokerages, USAA and Fidelity. This year I had to pay a $284 penalty for not submitting quarterly estimated tax payments. The penalty is preferable to making the advance payments and I get to use the money for a year.

You most probably can get your K1 forms earlier at https://www.taxpackagesupport.com

[DogNo1]

I get the K-1 forms quite early by regular mail. It is one of the brokerage statements that I have to wait for until the middle of March.

BTW, Government Complex B, which contains the immigration offices is much more attractive this year. The food court area has been spruced up. The main deficit is now the seating up on the first floor. When I was there on Wednesday, all of the little squares outside of the immigration office were filled with people perched uncomfortably. The seats ringing the columns were also filled. Surely they could put in some kind of seating more comfortable than those little squares!

[BritTim]

A re-entry permit is not available at most land borders. For a while, the airports have, indeed, been more convenient to get one when leaving on an international flight. Changes have just occurred at Suvannabhumi. I am waiting anxiously to see whether we can still quickly receive re-entry permits there.

[MikeOwen]

Thank Buddha for jontiem Imm. They've got so slick over the years , in and out in under 1 hit for most things , retirement extension back the next day , but I can live with that!!

[samtam]

Thanks OP for your update. I'm about to re-do my 9th Ex of St next week. However much preparation I make, the process never fails to get my heart racing, for no other reason than that's the way I'm programmed. Little incidences like IMM not knowing what a Fixed Deposit is, and debate about whether it was acceptable for the 3 month THB800k deposit, (it was after a bit of barny, but that was years 1-3 ), and a whole deal of hoopla last year when my savings passbook which was updated by the clerk at Krungsri was skewed so the transactions and narrative were not, but which was backed up by a signed and stamped letter from the bank showing the same transactions unskewed; each of the three IMM officers queried it, and the supervisor made me go out and wait whilst they decided whether it was acceptable; it was.

I did all the paperwork yesterday, but just to ensure I'm not blase about it, can someone confirm the passport pages I am photocopying are:

1) Name & details & photo page

2) Only travel stamps between the last Extension and Re-entry stamps

3) TM.6

3) Issuance of first transfer of Visa from old passport to new

Thanks.

[DogNo1]

samtam: What do you mean when you say that your transactions were skewed?

BTW, an airport extension is not a good option for me because my flight leaves before 7:30 AM and I go through the expedited check-in and customs at Thai Airways. That puts the renewal permit desk practically out of reach for me. So long as I have another option, I will not get up at 3:30 AM to make it to the airport before 6:00.

[DogNo1]

samtam: I think that you are correct about the passport pages that need to be copied. Just remember that you will need TWO copies if you plan to get your re-entry permit on the same day. If you have your re-entry permit application and those photocopies in-hand, you can possibly get a re-entry queue number before you receive your extension. There's no penalty if you don't use a number and there's a sign on cubicle #13 to report to them directly if your queue number has been passed. You could hand in your re-entry papers and then hustle downstairs for a photocopy of your new extension when they point out that the photocopy of that page is missing. Good luck.

Edited April 23, 2016 by ubonjoe
reply to a removed post deleted

[samtam]

DogNo1 - "skewed" means when the passbook was put into the machine for updating it went in/out incorrectly and the transactions and narrative was not aligned, missing out dates on two transactions including the crucial one of when the money was placed into the account; the bank print out showed the correct information.

Yes, I have two copies of the info for the Re-entry. Normally the counter service will not provide a ticket for Re-entry application until they see the Extension of Stay has been stamped in the passport, but you seem to be suggesting otherwise, and that the likely missing of the number being called is not an issue. Surprising news, but time-saving if it works.

[samtam]

All completed today with the angst that justifies my heart-racing experience. Arrived at 10 am. Ticketing machine was broken. Heath Robinson replacement system meant we saw the IMM officer at 2.30 pm. Processed quickly...surprisingly. Re-entry ticket accepted at around 2.50 pm. No ticket could be issued (despite grovelling) without photocopy of Extended Visa presentation. Re-entry completed at 4 pm. Taxi queue thereafter meant taxi departed Chaeng Wattana at around 4.20 pm. Home (in Sathorn) at 5.15 pm. A great way to spend 8 hours? Perhaps not. There must be a better way! I would gladly pay more for fast track, if such a thing existed. No, not Thai Elite, but any other suggestions welcome.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just be grateful you're not doing it in Chiang Mai, or another of the relative Immigration hell-holes out there....

[samtam]

Does anyone have experience of using an agent to do Extension of Stay? Does it make the process any less of a hassle, viz reduce the waiting time from 9 hours door to door to something more tolerable. Is their service the "Fast Track" system I am looking for and how much might it cost?

[Pib]

Did my annual retirement extension today at CW.   I showed up a little before 8:30am when the banks and immigration open, but I didn't get in any immigration line waiting for the doors to open.  

 

Instead, I initially went down to my bank branch (Krungsri) in the building, went in at 8:30am when they opened, asked for a visa extension bank letter...I use the Bt800K in the bank for 3 months method.  They started the process which they said would take 30 minutes.  So, while waiting for them to complete the letter I went up to immigration around 8:45am and by then the long "waiting to get in the door" line was gone...I got a queue number of 38.  Before going back down to the bank to see if the letter was ready I peeked into the long term visa section to see what queue number they are had already called...they were up to 11.  I go back down to the bank and they have the letter completed in about 15 minutes vs estimated 30 minutes...cost of letter was Bt100. 

 

I then went back up to immigration and they have now called up to queue number 21.  I set down, occupy myself with my smartphone and around 9:45am they call my queue number of 38.  15 minutes later at 10:00am I'm done...new one year extension in my passport...I'm out the door.

 

So, the process of getting my bank letter and my retirement extension of renewal today (a Wednesday) was 1.5 hours (bank and immigration time combined) which is typical for the 7 retirement extensions I have done at CW...usually takes 1.5 to 2.5 hours with the 1.5 to 2.0 hour range being the most typical.  I always show up to start the process at their 8:30am opening time.

 

Everyone was professional and fast in the extension processing...no complaints from me...just all compliments from me.  Your results may vary.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Pib, I'm assuming from your prior post, that you also were not asked to fill out the Personal (Farang) Information Form that's gotten so much publicity and criticism in recent months here on TV.

 

It seems I'm always about a week ahead of you in my annual visits to CW. And when I went last week, no personal information form, no hassles about my U.S. consulate income letter, and the process of getting my retirement extension and reentry permit took from about 8:30 to 11:30 am. Got out just before lunch time.

 

As I noted in my separate post on my CW visit last week, while I was there, I didn't see anyone either filling out or handling any kind of personal info form. So it kind of makes me wonder, if they're actually being used at CW at present.

 

However, the staff at CW do seem very slow and lackadaisical about the work flow of processing re-entry permits, which I'd assume involves far less discretionary consideration than extensions do. I had a longer time sitting and waiting for my re-entry permit than I did for my extension.

 

 

Edited August 31, 2016 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

Yes, I was asked to fill out the new form.  The immigration officer handed me three forms to complete...two of them the standard forms they handed me every year where you are just acknowledging certain things like doing 90 days reports....you basically just enter you address and sign the forms.  And the third form was that new personal info form.

 

I had already filled  out that new form in case they asked...when the officer handed me that form I then handed her the one I had already filled out...she scanned it for no more than 3 seconds and then just paper clipped it to the other docs.  And after she had done all her processing (the bulk of the whole approval process) she said go over to the other desk where another person quickly glanced at the whole package and initialed off on some stuff....that immigration officer looked at the personal info form for now more than 5 seconds.

 

Summary: yes I had to complete the new form but they only spent a few seconds reviewing what I wrote on it.  Although I have multiple Thai bank accounts I only entered the one which I was using for the Bt800K income bank letter since the bank letter had the account number on it plus a copy of key pages from the passbook.  Regarding places I visit regularly I put "None" and regarding "Frequently Used Social Media sites" I only entered an email address.   All the other info, I have no issue in providing them like my U.S. address, address in Thailand,  Emergency Contract/Address which was my wife here at my Thailand addresses, etc.