Gay couple wins custody battle against Thai surrogate mother

[wangsuda]

Poor kid.

Ditto......

No, lucky kid. The baby has two parents who fought for her.

[greenchair]

Before everyone jumps up and down and spends all the money.

She may well appeal. In fact, she has the right to appeal through 2 more courts. They could be here for years.

And don't think for a minute, that this is a done deal as the first court verdict is often overturned.

Not time to break out the shampoo yet.

[marquess]

For all those who keep pointing out that homosexuality is common in the animal kingdom, none of these unions produce children; and I wonder if these two men could have produced a child between them, hardly a natural reproductive relationship.

[Meena999]

Congratulations to the gay couple, and I'm am sure she will be loved and have a wonderful life.

I hope the world can get over the fact that some people and couples are different, I don't care as long as there happy, there is far to much hatred in this world, so legalize gay marriage and get on with life.

Ps I'm not gay but have many friends that are and they are happy people.

[BritManToo]

I don't think dolphins do formal adoptions, either. Species have different methods of raising young ... and human societies have even more flexibility. There isn't one choice. The "traditional" nuclear family is one way and of course popular. There are others. Single parents. Multi-generational parenting. Same sex couple parenting. Another example, the way many Israelis used to be raised collectively on kibbutzim.

But human gay folk cannot sire naturally can they......?

Without a bit of money, I doubt 60 year old men could sire naturally either.

[Jingthing]

Before everyone jumps up and down and spends all the money.

She may well appeal. In fact, she has the right to appeal through 2 more courts. They could be here for years.

And don't think for a minute, that this is a done deal as the first court verdict is often overturned.

Not time to break out the shampoo yet.

Will it cost her money to mount appeals?

[Rayk]

The more I read comments on Thai visa the more I realize that the vast majority of posters are both homophobic and racist, among other things.

And yet these same people have the audacity to comment on how Thai people are racist.

[robertthebruce]

What is the world coming to? Next single men will be able to have babies!

Why not ???

[Jingthing]

The more I read comments on Thai visa the more I realize that the vast majority of posters are both homophobic and racist, among other things.

And yet these same people have the audacity to comment on how Thai people are racist.

Plenty of people like that everywhere but anonymous internet forums and comments sections allow them to show their true colors.

[chickenslegs]

Far from it George...

So you answer, can gay folk sire naturally....?

May I answer your question Transam?

Definition of 'Sire': To be the biological father of (a child).

So, gay men can sire naturally. Gordon Lake is a gay man who sired a child - Carmen Lake.

[GeorgesAbitbol]

It must be harsh for some of you to live in a country where homosexuality is so deep rooted in culture... seeing all those gays, trans and lesbians everywhere...

[anotheruser]

Congratulations to them. However something seems sort of dodgy to go to Thailand to hire a surrogate mother. What could possibly go wrong?

I am gay so don't play the homophobe card I would think it is a tad suspect either way. Especially considering neither of the gay guys is actually Thai.

Edited April 26, 2016 by anotheruser

[SoiBiker]

Good for them.

Shame on all the bigoted dinosaurs here.

[SoiBiker]

In these situations, does the kid have 2 dads or do they call one mum?

Sometimes they do just that, yes. It's up to the people involved.

[Jingthing]

Congratulations to them. However something seems sort of dodgy to go to Thailand to hire a surrogate mother. What could possibly go wrong?

I am gay so don't play the homophobe card I would think it is a tad suspect either way. Especially considering neither of the gay guys is actually Thai.

It's not legal for foreigners to do that now in Thailand. HOWEVER, the law changed AFTER the contract was signed and I think the birth of the baby in question (not sure).

Surrogacy is illegal in most nations.

Some people go abroad to places where it is more affordable price and/or legal.

It's not really a mystery why a gay couple would want surrogacy service any more than why infertile straight people would want that.

Many people want a genetic connection to their child and prefer that to adoption. It's a choice for them when it is legal, whether people approve of that, or not.

As this is now illegal in Thailand, don't expect any future cases like this one.

That neither one of the gay couple is Thai is totally irrelevant. Just as when a white straight Canadian couple goes to India for surrogacy service, it is similarly irrelevant that neither one of that couple is Indian.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogacy_laws_by_country

Edited April 26, 2016 by Jingthing

[Kaalle]

The more I read comments on Thai visa the more I realize that the vast majority of posters are both homophobic and racist, among other things.

And yet these same people have the audacity to comment on how Thai people are racist.

They are just old and grey, the world has passed them by

[Sawan Chan 7]

I don't think dolphins do formal adoptions, either. Species have different methods of raising young ... and human societies have even more flexibility. There isn't one choice. The "traditional" nuclear family is one way and of course popular. There are others. Single parents. Multi-generational parenting. Same sex couple parenting. Another example, the way many Israelis used to be raised collectively on kibbutzim.

But human gay folk cannot sire naturally can they......?

You mean two males? Duh. Why ask such a stupid question. They can adopt when it is legal. In some nations they can legally hire surrogates. Many have children from previous relationships with women. Do they have wombs? Seriously, why ask that unless to BAIT?

God, you have serious paranoia issues.

Just answer my question.........yes or no......You know the answer but duck and dive...

But just answer, can gay folk sire....?

Forget about modern day medical inject this and that...Just say yes or no...

No. I will not answer your IDIOTIC question assuming you mean two MALES because your hateful intention is so obvious. You know the answer. Everyone knows the answer. Everyone can also see your intention. Pure BAITING.

My patience has run out with that.

Welcome to my ignore list.

You have serious paranoia issues.

When was the last time you left you're computer? Sad.I mean that.

[Sawan Chan 7]

The more I read comments on Thai visa the more I realize that the vast majority of posters are both homophobic and racist, among other things.

And yet these same people have the audacity to comment on how Thai people are racist.

Plenty of people like that everywhere but anonymous internet forums and comments sections allow them to show their true colors.

Like you have any time away from internet forums, lol.

[anotheruser]

Congratulations to them. However something seems sort of dodgy to go to Thailand to hire a surrogate mother. What could possibly go wrong?

I am gay so don't play the homophobe card I would think it is a tad suspect either way. Especially considering neither of the gay guys is actually Thai.

It's not legal for foreigners to do that now in Thailand. HOWEVER, the law changed AFTER the contract was signed and I think the birth of the baby in question (not sure).

Surrogacy is illegal in most nations.

Some people go abroad to places where it is more affordable price and/or legal.

It's not really a mystery why a gay couple would want surrogacy service any more than why infertile straight people would want that.

Many people want a genetic connection to their child and prefer that to adoption. It's a choice for them when it is legal, whether people approve of that, or not.

As this is now illegal in Thailand, don't expect any future cases like this one.

That neither one of the gay couple is Thai is totally irrelevant. Just as when a white straight Canadian couple goes to India for surrogacy service, it is similarly irrelevant that neither one of that couple is Indian.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogacy_laws_by_country

I already said that their sexuality isn't what i find dodgy about it. It is the fact they did it in a third world country where it is now illegal that raises eye brows. The fact that they are gay and it used to be legal doesn't mean it isn't dodgy. I am getting the feeling this would actually be criticised more if the couple was in fact straight.

Edited April 26, 2016 by anotheruser

[Jingthing]

What are you on about? It was a legal contract when signed.

Going to India and Nepal (before the quake) is very common.

It's a large industry in India.

I hear you, you don't like surrogacy done in poorer countries.

That issue was NOT on trial in this case. This case was only about CUSTODY for one child. Geez!

Personally, I'm not even interested in the surrogacy debate either way, but again, this case isn't the surrogacy debate. That's a much bigger international issue.

This was only about custody one child done with surrogacy when legal here.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Jingthing

[anotheruser]

It is rather impossible to debate anything with you in regards to gay issues, food or anything else. The larger issue of whether surrogacy is moral or not is completely appropriate when discussing only one case. Anyway we all know this isn't even on the back page with out the gay issue being involved. I doubt you would be offering congratulations to a straight couple.

[Jingthing]

It is rather impossible to debate anything with you in regards to gay issues, food or anything else. The larger issue of whether surrogacy is moral or not is completely appropriate when discussing only one case. Anyway we all know this isn't even on the back page with out the gay issue being involved. I doubt you would be offering congratulations to a straight couple.

You lost me.

I have no idea what you're talking about now but whatever you're trying to say, it's coming off as disingenuous.

The baby exists. Custody was in dispute. A decision needed to made. Is that too complicated for you?

If it was about surrogacy, dude, the surrogate woman was in on it too BIG TIME.

At the court, do you imagine that surrogacy was on trial (that is a LEGISLATIVE concern) rather than a CUSTODY case? Come on now, please.

If it was a straight couple with exactly the same story ... this would not even be in the news. Did you actually follow it? A big part of the excuse of the surrogate woman was that she claimed she was deceived that the couple involved was gay. That was denied. Do you see now? This wouldn't be the same case. OK, now we're cool. Enjoy.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Jingthing

[anotheruser]

Yes, I get it. You are congratulating the fact that gay people are now able to get away with dodgy practices the same as their straight counterparts. I guess in some way this is a victory for gay rights. Anyway you seem to agree that you wouldn't be congratulating them without the gay angle involved.

So we seem to concur.

[Thaiwine]

Anyone know if the birth mother has a fund me page ?

I would help her out a bit.

[Jingthing]

Yes, I get it. You are congratulating the fact that gay people are now able to get away with dodgy practices the same as their straight counterparts. I guess in some way this is a victory for gay rights. Anyway you seem to agree that you wouldn't be congratulating them without the gay angle involved.

So we seem to concur.

I would want legal contracts to be honored in the case of surrogacy where it is legal, gay or straight. To add, surrogacy for gay couples in Nepal is for the single man in a gay couple, not legal for married gays, as happened here the contract also needed to be with a single man (gay marriage not recognized here), and in India surrogacy for single male or gay couples illegal last I heard.

I have stated before on other threads I have no problem with Thailand changing their surrogacy laws, or any sovereign country making that illegal (or legal for that matter).

This case wouldn't even be a case or in the news without the gay angle. You don't have permission to assume my positions especially when you're so OBNOXIOUS about it. State your own. I won't even bother refuting your obnoxious assumption, because I don't tolerate nasty BAITS of that nature.

To wit, ignore list time.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Anyone know if the birth mother has a fund me page ?

I would help her out a bit.

She's not the mother. She did a surrogacy service. It was not her egg.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Jingthing

[anotheruser]

Yes, I get it. You are congratulating the fact that gay people are now able to get away with dodgy practices the same as their straight counterparts. I guess in some way this is a victory for gay rights. Anyway you seem to agree that you wouldn't be congratulating them without the gay angle involved.

So we seem to concur.

I would want legal contracts to be honored in the case of surrogacy where it is legal, gay or straight. To add, surrogacy for gay couples in Nepal is for the single man in a gay couple, not legal for married gays, as happened here the contract also needed to be with a single man (gay marriage not recognized here), and in India surrogacy for single male or gay couples illegal last I heard.

I have stated before on other threads I have no problem with Thailand changing their surrogacy laws, or any sovereign country making that illegal (or legal for that matter).

This case wouldn't even be a case or in the news without the gay angle. You don't have permission to assume my positions especially when you're so OBNOXIOUS about it. State your own. I won't even bother refuting your obnoxious assumption, because I don't tolerate nasty BAITS of that nature.

To wit, ignore list time.

I never worded anything nastily. You would want legal contracts to be honored even given the fact that the basis of the contract is now declared illegal in Thailand and as you said in most countries? Imagine contracts for slaves standing after abolition. So given it is illegal now if the surrogate mother would win custody based upon the contract was illegal in the first place would you support that? It doesn't matter anyway because the kid is back in Australia outside of the decisions of a Thai court either way.

[uthaithanirules]

Women, of course, lesbians or not, can naturally produce children with a very short visit from a male or turkey baster. No need for any male to be involved in parenting.

Which is why I dont see this case as a gay matter at all.

Had it instead been two gay women, well they would only need IVF or surrogacy in the first place if they were both incapable of bearing children

And even if so, wouldnt have attracted the same amount of attention as the guys in this case does.

The judges determination would have mainly been about the fact that the birth mother didnt show up for this decision, above everything else.

Its a shame when there are so many orphaned / abandoned children in Thailand, most of whom grow up with developmental difficulties basically because there arent enough (usually female) carers per child, that these guys instead couldnt have just adopted an abandoned child. It would have been impossible, for its very difficult for even a thai heterosexual couple to adopt a newborn. Thai authorities just like every other poorer country have to worry about human trafficking

The surrogacy laws have changed, this cannot happen (legally anyway) in the future

[uthaithanirules]

Also, the article mentions LGBT rights.

There is a B and a T in there

What the hell would a bisexual couple seeking surrogacy or adoption even be? When do you EVER hear something like that?

Two swinging couples that want to adopt the one kid? Or one couple where one or both are dumb enough during the adoption process to admit out loud they have regular **** buddies or the same sex

???

Accuse me of being a moron for asking the question, but someone please explain that to me, give me ONE example from anywhere on the planet where a couple was denied adoption or surrogacy because they were bisexual

Secondly, there isnt a pecking order amongst LGBT ?

When do you ever really even hear ,a guy especially, broadcast that he is openly bisexual? Like EVER? Gay men likely to be just as judgemental as Straight men

And T, since its thailand, would the majority of gays and lesbians across the world be for or against two pattaya ladyboys seeking to adopt a child or the use of a surrogate?

For me, thats where the argument gets interesting, would the majority of gay men actually be supportive of bisexuals or transexuals becoming parents, are the majority of lesbians actually supportive of gay men becoming parents

Although I think I already know the answer

[webfact]

Same-sex couple win the right of legal custody of Carmen



BANGKOK: -- An American-Spanish same-sex couple has won the high-profile legal battle against the surrogate mother for the custody of their surrogate daughter, Carmen who is now about two years old.

The Juvenile and Family Court today (Tuesday) issued a ruling granting the legal custody of Carmen to the same-sex couple, American Gordon Lake and Spaniard, Manuel Santos, both now 42.

Gordon Lake is the biological father of the child who was born by her surrogate mother, Mrs Patita Kusolsang through assisted reproduction technique with an egg donated by an unnamed woman. However, some time after the birth of Carmen, Mrs Patita refused to sign official documents which would have allowed the couple to apply for a passport to bring Carmen out of the country. The case finally landed at the Juvenile and Family Court.

Mr Santos was at the court when the ruling was read. He was so overwhelmed with joy by the ruling that tears streamed down from his eyes. He thanked the court and Thais who have been supporting them throughout the court’s trial.

The couple also posted a long message in their Facebook page in the aftermath of the court’s ruling.

Parts of the message reads as follows: “There is no way to express with words what we are feeling. We are crying, our family is crying, our friends are crying, and we are sure all the Thai people who showed their love for us during this time are crying too. Today is a huge day for love, for family and for truth. And it is a big day for LGBT rights.

Carmen will grow up with her family, with her brother, in her home in Valencia. We could have never had gotten to we are today without the help of so many people from this incredible country. There are so many people to thank, you all know who you are, but will write a big thank you post when we are safe and sound in Valencia……..

Right now, we just want to go back to our normal lives and try to rebuild what we can, so that Alovaro and Carmen can have the wonderful lives that they were always meant to have….”’

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/content/161128


-- Thai PBS 2016-04-27