Israel treads carefully with claim to Golan

[webfact]

Israel treads carefully with claim to Golan
By JOSEF FEDERMAN

JERUSALEM (AP) — Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has sparked a new diplomatic brushfire by declaring that the Golan Heights, seized from Syria in the 1967 Mideast war, is and should remain "under Israel's sovereignty permanently."

But following tough international criticism, Israeli officials said Netanyahu's statements had been misconstrued and that a 1981 decision to apply Israeli law to the strategic plateau fell short of annexation.

The debate offers a window into a more nuanced Israeli perspective that, despite statements from the country's hard-line political leadership, continues to leave the door open, just barely, to a peace deal when Syria's civil war finally winds down.

For now, the debate is largely academic. Syria has been engulfed in civil war for nearly five years, and there is no end in sight. With Syria, and the Syrian side of the Golan, divided between Syrian troops and various rebel forces, there is nobody to talk to, even if Israel decided to open negotiations.

But the Golan remains central to any future peace deal with Syria, and its fate is a key part of a 2002 Saudi initiative that offered Israel peace with the Arab world in exchange for a full withdrawal from all territories captured in the 1967 Mideast war. While that offer is usually connected to areas sought by the Palestinians, the Golan is also considered occupied land by the international community. Past Israeli leaders, including Netanyahu himself, have held talks with Syria about control of the Golan.

So when Netanyahu convened his Cabinet for a first-ever meeting in the Golan on April 17, he triggered an international uproar by calling it "sovereign" Israeli territory.

"The Golan Heights will forever remain in Israel's hands," he declared. "After 50 years, the time has come for the international community to finally recognize that the Golan Heights will remain under Israel's sovereignty permanently."

The U.S., Israel's closest ally, quickly criticized Netanyahu, saying the Golan is "not part of Israel." Germany and the European Union also rejected his statement, as did the Arab League, 57-member Organization of Islamic Cooperation and the Syrian government. And early this week, the U.N. Security Council took issue with him.

"Council members expressed their deep concern over recent Israeli statements about the Golan and stressed that the status of the Golan remains unchanged," said Council President Liu Jieyi, China's ambassador to the U.N. He noted a previous 1981 resolution that said Israel's decision to impose Israeli law on the Golan is "null and void."

Alan Baker, a former legal adviser to Israel's Foreign Ministry, said the parliamentary decision to impose Israeli law back in 1981 was "merely a means of governing" the territory. He said that previously, Syria had deferred to the local Druse population, whose secretive religion and customs were difficult to apply after Israel took over.

He said Israel was careful not to annex the territory — a decision that would require additional parliamentary action — in order not to "prejudice" future border negotiations with Syria.

"Israel has never claimed the Golan to be part of its sovereign jurisdiction," said Baker. "That's why in my opinion, the statement that was made was somewhat ill-advised."

In reality, Israel has in effect already annexed the territory and any thought of returning it to Syria is deeply unpopular with Israelis. More than 20,000 Israeli settlers now live in settlements on the Golan, according to official Israeli statistics.

The territory, with its rugged terrain, open spaces and sweeping vistas of Syria and northern Israel, is a popular tourism spot that is home to high-end wineries, rustic restaurants and cattle farms. The native Druse population, who also number about 20,000 people, mingle freely with Israeli Jews and are eligible for Israeli citizenship.

The system in the Golan is part of a legal kaleidoscope that Israel has created since the 1967 war. Shortly after the war, it annexed east Jerusalem, home to the city's most important holy sites, in a move that also has not been internationally recognized. Under interim peace accords, military rulings and special stipulations, West Bank settlements are subject to Israeli jurisdiction, while Palestinians are subject to a combination of their own municipal and family laws, as well as Israeli military law for security offenses.

In a statement this week, Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Emmanuel Nahshon accused the Security Council of "ignoring reality" with its criticism.

"With whom is Israel supposed to negotiate the future of the Golan — Islamic State? Al-Qaida? Hezbollah? The Iranian and Syrian forces that slaughtered hundreds of thousands of people?" he said. "The suggestion that Israel will withdraw from the Golan is not reasonable."

Still, he acknowledged that the Golan Heights is not part of "Israel proper," even if Israeli law is enforced there.

Netanyahu's spokesman, David Keyes, said the prime minister's comments "were a description of the reality on the ground," and the Golan's legal status has not changed.

"The territory must remain under Israeli control for a simple reason. When Syria ruled the Golan, it was used as a staging ground for attacking Israeli civilians. It was mined and crisscrossed with barbed wire. It was a place of war. In the nearly five decades since Israel liberated the Golan, it has been used for agriculture, tourism and great wine. It is now a place of peace," Keyes said.

It remains unclear why Netanyahu decided to drag his Cabinet to the Golan, a three-hour trip from Jerusalem. It may have been a message to international negotiators not to forget Israeli interests as they try to end the Syrian war. It also may have been meant as a show of strength to domestic critics.

Moshe Maoz, an expert on Syria at Israel's Hebrew University, said the prime minister's tough stand was "an affront and chutzpa" to the international community.

"In my assessment, any government in Syria which will emerge after this mess will demand the Golan Heights," he said.


-- (c) Associated Press 2016-04-29

[Ulysses G.]

Of course, the Golan Heights should remain "under Israel's sovereignty permanently." Syria can not be trusted to keep the peace otherwise.

[ezzra]

Simply put, there's no more Syria, what used to be Syria, is a fragmented, torn and controlled by dozen of terrorists groups, the Iranians, Hezbollah and the Russians, what sane next door country will even contemplate to hand over strategic territory to any of the above? so as long as the hornets' nest in what formally known as Syria will continue to be in mayhem, Israel should sits on their hands.......

[yardrunner]

Of course, the Golan Heights should remain "under Israel's sovereignty permanently." Syria can not be trusted to keep the peace otherwise.

and you think that Israel can be trusted, they couldn't be trusted in what used to be called Palestine due to extremist settlers, perhaps it is time for UN security forces to start monitoring these territories

[Steely Dan]

From what I read there were rumors of Obama and Putin looking to dictate who got what areas of Syria including the Golan heights. As Netanyahu has no relationship with Obama he made his position on the Golan public, when it was probably wiser to make his concerns known behind the scenes. You can she'll half of Israel with a clear line of sight from the Golan, it would be as suicidal to relinquish control of this as would removing troops from the banks of the Jordan.

[Thorgal]

Quote from Op :

"The territory must remain under Israeli control for a simple reason. When Syria ruled the Golan, it was used as a staging ground for attacking Israeli civilians. It was mined and crisscrossed with barbed wire. It was a place of war. In the nearly five decades since Israel liberated the Golan, it has been used for agriculture, tourism and great wine. It is now a place of peace," Keyes said.

He forgot to mention that Israel started oil exploration in the Golan heights, which is theft of natural resources of the Syrian sovereign state.

Just another violation of international laws...which remains far from the idyllic 'agriculture, tourism and great wine' false rhetoric...

[Morch]

Of course, the Golan Heights should remain "under Israel's sovereignty permanently." Syria can not be trusted to keep the peace otherwise.

And then again..."Past Israeli leaders, including Netanyahu himself, have held talks with Syria about control of the Golan."

[Steely Dan]

Of course, the Golan Heights should remain "under Israel's sovereignty permanently." Syria can not be trusted to keep the peace otherwise.

And then again..."Past Israeli leaders, including Netanyahu himself, have held talks with Syria about control of the Golan."

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but considering what happened to the Assad regime it's a blessing that such talks came to nothing.

[wabothai]

I think the Golan should be confiscated by the UN and designated a huge camp for all refugees.

[crankshaft]

To the victors go the spoils of war.....a war that that Israel did not start.

[Morch]

From what I read there were rumors of Obama and Putin looking to dictate who got what areas of Syria including the Golan heights. As Netanyahu has no relationship with Obama he made his position on the Golan public, when it was probably wiser to make his concerns known behind the scenes. You can she'll half of Israel with a clear line of sight from the Golan, it would be as suicidal to relinquish control of this as would removing troops from the banks of the Jordan.

Here's a somewhat different angle.

For a while the Syrian Civil War (or whatever people wish to call it) seemed to be heading toward the dissolution of Syria, and the redrawing of lines. I think Netanyahu's original aim was to get the USA's support for territorial changes in the aftermath of Syria's demise. With Russia getting more involved and seemingly insisting on the preservation of Syria, achieving this goal became even more far-fetched. Not only that, but if negotiations regarding Syria's future mature into a possible agreement, there would most probably be at least a reference, if not direct attention, paid to Israel's control of the Golan Heights. In my opinion, Netanyahu's current actions are directed less at achieving the original goal, and more about heading off possible international pressure.

The above provides further explanation of the recent diplomatic goings-on between Israel and Russia. It may also serve to explain Netanyahu's somewhat bizarre reluctance to hold talks with the USA regarding future military aid. Rhe USA administration offered a substantial increase to future aid given to Israel following the agreements with Iran. IDF and Israeli Ministry of Defense were all for it, and yet nothing advanced. It is possibly that Netanyahu was willing to delay (or even partially forfeit) the aid discussions, as to be in a better position when asking USA support for territorial changes.

For what its worth, I do not think that the USA would have gone along with it anyway, or that under current condition it is an actual possibility.

That said, hard to see much of an agreement sorting things in Syria coming to pass anytime soon. Even if such was to become a reality, it would not necessarily be applicable for the Golan Heights.

[Rancid]

Golan Heights, water and oil. Well the conflict in Syria now makes a lot more sense as the jackals clamor for the spoils. Israel allies do the killing, Israel reaps the rewards. This has been a published Israeli plan for decades that is now coming to fruition.

[Grouse]

No doubt water is a key issue

However the Israelis will ethnically cleanse all non Jewish areas and force the indigenous population into gettos

I will now be accused of antisemitism which is nonsense

[Somtamnication]

'"Of course, the Golan Heights should remain "under Israel's sovereignty permanently." Syria can not be trusted to keep the peace otherwise" and viceversa.

[Harveyg]

Golan Heights, water and oil. Well the conflict in Syria now makes a lot more sense as the jackals clamor for the spoils. Israel allies do the killing, Israel reaps the rewards. This has been a published Israeli plan for decades that is now coming to fruition.

I must say. This is much better than a t shirt message. Good to see it out in the open. No shadows for this guy. Any doubts anyone??

[Harveyg]

Golan Heights, water and oil. Well the conflict in Syria now makes a lot more sense as the jackals clamor for the spoils. Israel allies do the killing, Israel reaps the rewards. This has been a published Israeli plan for decades that is now coming to fruition.

That sums it up.

The Zionists influencing American foreign policy find chaos more useful than peace in any number of contexts.

The tradition of fomenting disorder, indeed, goes back to the invasion of Palestine by European [mostly Ashkenazi] Jews.

Ohh. I see rancid has company. Good on ya. Ohh. And T gal also. As if we didn't already know. Anyone else?

[Harveyg]

No doubt water is a key issue

However the Israelis will ethnically cleanse all non Jewish areas and force the indigenous population into gettos

I will now be accused of antisemitism which is nonsense

Not really. Of course it must be the water. Couldn't possibly have anything to do with security. Some armchairs are safer than others I guess

[Baerboxer]

From what I read there were rumors of Obama and Putin looking to dictate who got what areas of Syria including the Golan heights. As Netanyahu has no relationship with Obama he made his position on the Golan public, when it was probably wiser to make his concerns known behind the scenes. You can she'll half of Israel with a clear line of sight from the Golan, it would be as suicidal to relinquish control of this as would removing troops from the banks of the Jordan.

Interesting point. French and British diplomats decided what countries would be where after WW1. Behind closed doors. Worked out fine for them until their colonial aspirations died out. Now in non colonial times it could be down to the US (and its allies of course, hahaha) and Russia,

Scary thought. Neither would likely please Israel or any of the Arab countries, the terrorist groups and the Muslim radicals.

[Baerboxer]

well, rogue state of Israel and its land stealing actions as usual. not surprised. they want the oil and water resources there.

so will they claim whole Syria later on saying that no one controls the land? where else rogue state Israel will claim like it is theirs in the future? Maybe through Egypt and Jordan later on?

it is like some thugs coming to your land with guns and threatening to kill you if you dont leave. and people supporting such action can be easily counted as a rogue or a thug, an unlawful person.

rogue state israel is using the opportunity to grab those lands and globally no one agrees. They are not obeying any international land.

i mean Israel is not very different than North Korea and Netenyahu same as Kim Jong Un.

it looks like Israel is asking for an international sanction but pity US and Europe just condemn and do nothign else.

Bloviating nonsense considering Israel gained control of the Golan during a defensive war after being attacked from the heights by the Syrians. Previous to this Israel was sporadically shelled from the heights by terrorists. And you piously waffle about what's lawful.

Let's get real. Israel has many enemies and many people actively working for and cheerleading for the destruction of the homeland state of the Jewish people. So of course such people will be opposed to Israel holding onto Golan. I am not a military defense expert of any kind and don't really know for sure if Golan is really necessary to hold for that purpose ... but if it is, Israel should hold it.

Fair point. How many Arab and other Muslim countries seek Israels destruction and how many concede that Israel has the right to exist?

I know many Muslims in the GCC who don't despise Israel or want to destroy it. But, rather worryingly, I know many well educated, professional types, in their 30's, male and female, who do despise Israel and hold Israel responsible for all the ills in the ME.

Since it's foundation Israel has existed and flourished whilst under constant attack from war and terrorism. In this context, it's hard to criticize Israel.

[AGLV0121]

Of course, the Golan Heights should remain "under Israel's sovereignty permanently." Syria can not be trusted to keep the peace otherwise.

and you think that Israel can be trusted, they couldn't be trusted in what used to be called Palestine due to extremist settlers, perhaps it is time for UN security forces to start monitoring these territories

So much ignorance! There was never any Palestine, it was Jordan, a country which attacked Israel in 1967 and Israel counter-attacked.

Google if you may.

[AGLV0121]

And I remind here that the land the British Mandate "granted" (although nothing was ever granted) to the Jews was from Mediterranean coast to the Jordan river, therefore including the west bank. It's Jordan that invaded the west bank, and Israel's army had no time to counter-attack before the imposed cease-fire.

So technically, the west bank belongs to Israel.

[Johpa]

The Golan is a completely separate issue from the illegal, unwanted, and unnecessary occupation of the West Bank. The Golan region was sparsely populated and ethnically Druze and not Syrian. The only Syrian populations were the military camps. There is a plausible argument that Israel should maintain the Golan for basic security based upon geography. This is in sharp contrast to the West Bank territories which are more densely populated by an Arab population that will actively resist the ridiculous occupation and is a region that apart form some minor adjustments, does not pose a significant security threat based upon geography.

[Morch]

I think the Golan should be confiscated by the UN and designated a huge camp for all refugees.

And I think you're trolling.

On the off chance you're not - how would such a "confiscation" come about? What would be the added value of opening yet another front in the Syrian conflict? How will all them refugees arrive there?

[Morch]

To the victors go the spoils of war.....a war that that Israel did not start.

Doesn't quite work this way nowadays.

Seems like most of the world, and even Israel's staunchest friends, do not support the claim.

[Morch]

Golan Heights, water and oil. Well the conflict in Syria now makes a lot more sense as the jackals clamor for the spoils. Israel allies do the killing, Israel reaps the rewards. This has been a published Israeli plan for decades that is now coming to fruition.

A published Israeli plan says poster. Guessing a tinfoil hat link is readily available. Can't wait to see how "Past Israeli leaders, including Netanyahu himself, have held talks with Syria about control of the Golan" figures into this nefarious decades long plan.

[Morch]

No doubt water is a key issue

However the Israelis will ethnically cleanse all non Jewish areas and force the indigenous population into gettos

I will now be accused of antisemitism which is nonsense

You will be accused of posting inflammatory nonsense, more like..

Israel is in control of the Golan Heights for almost 50 years now. The local populace, mostly Druze, is eligible for Israeli citizenship.

[AGLV0121]

It seems no one of those who write about the Golan issue know what geographic realities are linked to the matter.

If you look at the map - a must-do before talking about such a topic -, you'll first consider the semantics of it: Golan HEIGHTS.

The Golan heights lead to a high-plateau from where Syrian troops bombarded Israel. Daily. In the pre-1967/Six-day war era.

And Syria attacked, Israel counter-attacked.

Gaining control over the Golan heights is simply a way to avoid this to happen again.

As well, you'll realize that the western border of the west bank is only five miles from the coast, making it easy to an enemy to cut the country into two isolated parts.

As for oil, etc. and hints that "Israelis", "Zionists" "interested" it is void of reality (oil is simply elsewhere, in the Mediterranean sea for instance, but not on the Golan), tending to taint a reality with less respectable goals - as usual.

Now, some people seem to be emotional about this topic, as I've noticed the same member posting over 10 replies to this topic! ))

[Scott]

Off-topic, troll posts and replies removed.