Why Build a Terminal 21 in Pattaya? by The Pattaya Sleuth

[Inspire]

Why Build a Terminal 21 in Pattaya? by The Pattaya Sleuth



Anyone who has visited Pattaya over the last 6 months will have noticed a big difference as they travel down North Pattaya Road towards the Dolphin Roundabout.

Gone is the derelict building that never seemed really get started, gone is shopping arcade and gone is Kiss restaurant. There has been all sort of speculation about what was going to go on this huge spot of land and now we know – a Terminal 21 shopping mall similar to that in Bangkok and in Korat.

The first question on everyone’s lips appears to be “why?” and that is probably a fair question. After all we already have Central Festival and Big C North Pattaya shopping centres (the latter of which is due for renovation) so is there the demand? The answer to that must be “yes” a big, successful companies don’t tend to back white elephants – or not often at least. The Chinese market is growing almost week on week and the Thais appear to be coming back so undoubtedly it will be aimed primarily at them.

So what can we expect? For those of you who don’t know the Terminal 21 in Bangkok is located at Asoke on Sukhumvit Road. It is large shopping centre that is split onto several floors that are named after holiday destinations such as the Caribbean, Rome and London. On these levels you will find the usual array of banks, high street shops along with boutique stores. On the upper floors you can find an IT section and a cinema complex with a vast selection of restaurants and other eateries scattered around the building. To put it in perspective, it won’t be a great deal different to Central Festival.

Full story: http://www.inspirepattaya.com/lifestyle/build-terminal-21-pattaya-pattaya-sleuth/

-- Inspire Pattaya 2016-05-01

[Crossy]

An off-topic post has been removed.

[shirtless]

Terminal 21 may be just the thing to raise Pattays image , could also be a monumental flop.

[LennyW]

The related traffic congestion will be horrendous!!

[OMGImInPattaya]

Pattaya is somewhat unique in that it's a relatively small beach resort town with a seemingly endless appetite for retail...I'm not complaining as it just makes for more variety and air-con places to hang out. I've also heard the MBK folks will be doing a mall at the Montien Hotel site in a few years too when the current lease expires. The Terminal location will probably do fine...and in a few years, when the Dusit's lease is up, I can see one or a couple huge condos\hotels being developed on that site, which will feed the new Terminal Mall.

[gk10002000]

I think it's a terrible idea. Pattaya has plenty of malls. I liked the KISS restaurants and will miss it.

[fforest1]

Its hard to comprehend how so much shopping can be supported in Pattaya....

I look at who is buying stuff in the malls..

I would say I see the western farang doing the least amount of buying.

You see the westerners in places like Home Pro,the IT shops,Grocery stores...

Some one is supporting the huge number of overpriced boutique and clothing

shops but its sure not the westerners..

Edited May 1, 2016 by fforest1

[i claudius]

Well if more Chines tour groups are coming ,thats it ,we all know what big spenders they are .

[DrTuner]

The answer is obvious. The BKK bleached vampire crowds need to keep their cold chain intact or their makeup will melt.

[dodojero]

If this will happen then my prediction is: Good bye Big C Robinson and Good bye Harbour Mall. One is too old and out of time and the other one is too small comparing with the Cental Festival or the Terminal 21. Only the old Mike Shopping Malls will survive because they got cheap stuff. The right place to shop for the Chinese groups.

Edited May 1, 2016 by dodojero

[JSixpack]

I think it's a terrible idea. Pattaya has plenty of malls. I liked the KISS restaurants and will miss it.

KISS moved down back down Naklua Rd. near where it used to be, around Soi 18.

[Berty100]

Pattaya is somewhat unique in that it's a relatively small beach resort town with a seemingly endless appetite for retail...I'm not complaining as it just makes for more variety and air-con places to hang out. I've also heard the MBK folks will be doing a mall at the Montien Hotel site in a few years too when the current lease expires. The Terminal location will probably do fine...and in a few years, when the Dusit's lease is up, I can see one or a couple huge condos\hotels being developed on that site, which will feed the new Terminal Mall.

The MBK guys already got rid of the plot, as they probably didn't see any grates in an MBK in Pattaya, and the current owner is Thaibev.

[JSixpack]

Well if more Chines tour groups are coming ,thats it ,we all know what big spenders they are .

One of our fave w@nks on the forum. Poor Chinese scavenging in the rubble, not spending anything like the traditional ol' yobos & mongers, those engines of true prosperity. It's so disgusting that City Hall forces corporations to tell outrageous lies like the following, cookin' the books to fool all them stupid auditors and analysts:

Improved performance of existing projects e.g. at CentralWorld, CentralPlaza Lardprao, CentralPlaza Pattaya Beach, etc., supported by spending from foreign tourists mainly from China and Korea during their summer travel season. . . . On a q-o-q basis, revenues from hotel operation increased by 6% thanks mainly to higher occupancy and room rate at Hilton Pattaya Beach Hotel with occupancy high at 92% in the third quarter, enhancing RevPar up 4% q-o-q as a result of an increasing number of Chinese and Korean tourist visits during their travel season in July-August. . . . continuing growth in hotel business with higher occupancy in this quarter on the back of increasing number of foreign tourists visiting Hilton Pattaya Beach Hotel. . . . However, the food court at CentralFestival Pattaya Beach experienced revenue growth, driven by higher traffic from tourist visits in the third quarter.

--Central Pattana PCL, Performance Overview: Overall economic condition in 3Q15

And since all TVF economic experts absolutely KNOW that Chinese tourists only spend money in Chinese venues like Central and the Hilton (and now Tesco Lotus and Foodland, as I saw quite a few in there recently), we have the completely bizarre situation whereby Thai banks kindly provide up to 166 billion baht to Chinese tourists, and therefore to China, for no possible reason other than for Immigration to collect visa fees over one holiday!

The nation’s seven commercial banks have prepared up to 166 billion baht for spending during the holiday, up by 9.7 billion last year. Bangkok Bank has reserved 35 billion baht for the period, Siam Commercial Bank has prepared 33 billion, Krungsri Bank has set aside 28.6 billion, Krungthai Bank has readied 20 billion and Kasikorn Bank has made sure to have 40 billion baht on hand.

--Banks confident Chinese New Year spending to be lively

Oddly, as TVF economists sneer at TAT's figures of rising numbers of tourists (and are still in denial about the construction of Suvarnabhumi Airport), the banks and the Mastercard Asia Pacific Destinations Index seem to agree more that the Chinese numbers are in fact rising, perhaps 16% annually according to the brokerage CLSA. Yes, dear CRASH! forecasters, CLSA took into account your knee-jerk about any economic slowdown:

But rising individualism and financial independence are seeing more and more young Chinese choose to defy custom, while at the same time tourism and outbound travel are surging. . . . Growing numbers are also seizing the opportunity for tourism, despite slowing growth in the world's second-largest economy. . . . Chinese travellers are by far the biggest spenders in the world, splashing $165 billion in countries they visited last year, according to the United Nations World Tourism Organisation.

--New Year, New Travel: More Chinese Choose Tourism Over Tradition

Gotta love TVF economics.

[bradenroger]

As someone who lives here, I'm always glad to see more shopping and entertainment options. I wonder what modifications will be required of the Dolphin Roundabout. Would Pattaya ever consider moving the Dolphin fountain to another place? Go Pattaya!

[jacko45k]

Terminal 21 may be just the thing to raise Pattays image , could also be a monumental flop.

There is also the recently opened Harbor Mall so I am thinking Pattaya is saturated as far as Malls are concerned.

It will become competition between them.

There is also the matter of infrastructure... the roads in Pattaya are already choked up... I do not see there being enough customers to warrant all this shopping. Much is being made of the increasing Chinese Market but they are not big spenders, but looky-loos who actually deter other customers,

[JSixpack]

The mere thought of the new mall has already caused another outbreak of TVF Poster New Construction Syndrome (TVFPNCS). It has five stages:

• Puzzlement
• Disbelief; "no need"
• Derision; doom prediction
• Hate (disappointment)
• Acceptance.

It would be helpful to understand the inadequacy of the "my eyeballs at several random intervals didn't see every shop packed" measure of economic success. This may be an insurmountable hurdle, however. Following that, so many of our members are still confounded at how CentralFestival Pattaya Beach even stays open, when in fact it's been a big success. Many of our near-sighted members can't even see any Chinese in there . . . yet the financial reports of Central Pattana PLC offer hard evidence, not the usual coin of our realm: anecdotes.

[Suradit69]

The related traffic congestion will be horrendous!!

On the other hand, it may draw traffic away from places I want to go, so 'every cloud ...'

Gee I can remember when we had Big C north, Royal Garden and not much else. Even TukCom was empty and sitting idle. Monthly shopping treks to Bangkok were almost a necessity.

... and the Thais appear to be coming back

I assume he means as tourists to Pattaya. Most of them, presumably, from Bangkok. Can't see many of them putting a mall on Pattaya Nua on their must-do agenda, but maybe it'll pull in a lot of people who want to avoid traffic near the beach and trying to find a parking space at Central Festival.

Edited May 1, 2016 by Suradit69

[Suradit69]

The mere thought of the new mall has already caused another outbreak of TVF Poster New Construction Syndrome (TVFPNCS). It has five stages:

• Puzzlement
• Disbelief; "no need"
• Derision; doom prediction
• Hate (disappointment)
• Acceptance.

It would be helpful to understand the inadequacy of the "my eyeballs at several random intervals didn't see every shop packed" measure of economic success. This may be an insurmountable hurdle, however. Following that, so many of our members are still confounded at how CentralFestival Pattaya Beach even stays open, when in fact it's been a big success. Many of our near-sighted members can't even see any Chinese in there . . . yet the financial reports of Central Pattana PLC offer hard evidence, not the usual coin of our realm: anecdotes.

Yes, one of the TVFPNCS even wrote recently that Big C Extra was almost always practically empty. I go there every week or two and finding a free parking space is always a challenge.

Haven't heard "the final nail in the coffin" comment for awhile, re: Pattaya and/or Thailand.

As Yogi Berra once said, "No one goes there anymore. It's too crowded."

Edited May 1, 2016 by Suradit69

[Seizetheday]

The related traffic congestion will be horrendous!!

On the other hand, it may draw traffic away from places I want to go, so 'every cloud ...'

Gee I can remember when we had Big C north and not much else. Even TukCom was empty and sitting idle. Monthly shopping treks to Bangkok were almost a necessity.

... and the Thais appear to be coming back

I assume he means as tourists to Pattaya. Most of them, presumably, from Bangkok. Can't see many of them putting a mall on Pattaya Nua on their must-do agenda.

I'd agree with you, although you'll find several of our frequent posters believing new malls are being built in Pattaya predominately for the Bangkok Thais coming down at weekends!!!!!

[Asiantravel]

The mere thought of the new mall has already caused another outbreak of TVF Poster New Construction Syndrome (TVFPNCS). It has five stages:

• Puzzlement
• Disbelief; "no need"
• Derision; doom prediction
• Hate (disappointment)
• Acceptance.

It would be helpful to understand the inadequacy of the "my eyeballs at several random intervals didn't see every shop packed" measure of economic success. This may be an insurmountable hurdle, however. Following that, so many of our members are still confounded at how CentralFestival Pattaya Beach even stays open, when in fact it's been a big success. Many of our near-sighted members can't even see any Chinese in there . . . yet the financial reports of Central Pattana PLC offer hard evidence, not the usual coin of our realm: anecdotes.

I think it has more to do with the difficulty of trying to decipher the thought process of the " build more shopping centre " cheerleaders who instantly dismissed the under performance of “The Avenue “ because they said it was a bad idea from the beginning as it’s not an air-conditioned environment and people don’t want to walk around outside.

And yet the new “ Bay “ shopping centre in the final stages of construction on Beach Road is similar in many respects right down to the external escalator and the need to walk around outside to go from shop to shop.

So what lessons have they learned?

[OMGImInPattaya]

The related traffic congestion will be horrendous!!

On the other hand, it may draw traffic away from places I want to go, so 'every cloud ...'

Gee I can remember when we had Big C north and not much else. Even TukCom was empty and sitting idle. Monthly shopping treks to Bangkok were almost a necessity.

... and the Thais appear to be coming back

I assume he means as tourists to Pattaya. Most of them, presumably, from Bangkok. Can't see many of them putting a mall on Pattaya Nua on their must-do agenda.

I'd agree with you, although you'll find several of our frequent posters believing new malls are being built in Pattaya predominately for the Bangkok Thais coming down at weekends!!!!!

When I returned home to the Darksiders from Harbor this morning, the backup on the 7 flyover on the opposite side to enter Pattaya stretched back almost 5 kilometers...so certainly little evidence that the Bangkok Thais are coming g to Pattaya on their holiday weekends. ?

[OMGImInPattaya]

The mere thought of the new mall has already caused another outbreak of TVF Poster New Construction Syndrome (TVFPNCS). It has five stages:

• Puzzlement
• Disbelief; "no need"
• Derision; doom prediction
• Hate (disappointment)
• Acceptance.

It would be helpful to understand the inadequacy of the "my eyeballs at several random intervals didn't see every shop packed" measure of economic success. This may be an insurmountable hurdle, however. Following that, so many of our members are still confounded at how CentralFestival Pattaya Beach even stays open, when in fact it's been a big success. Many of our near-sighted members can't even see any Chinese in there . . . yet the financial reports of Central Pattana PLC offer hard evidence, not the usual coin of our realm: anecdotes.

Many are still getting over their astonishment that it's still standing as so many were expecting (hoping) it to collapse into a pile of rubble due to some supposed faulty foundation work or something ?

[OMGImInPattaya]

Pattaya is somewhat unique in that it's a relatively small beach resort town with a seemingly endless appetite for retail...I'm not complaining as it just makes for more variety and air-con places to hang out. I've also heard the MBK folks will be doing a mall at the Montien Hotel site in a few years too when the current lease expires. The Terminal location will probably do fine...and in a few years, when the Dusit's lease is up, I can see one or a couple huge condos\hotels being developed on that site, which will feed the new Terminal Mall.

The MBK guys already got rid of the plot, as they probably didn't see any grates in an MBK in Pattaya, and the current owner is Thaibev.

So what, Pattaya is gonna get a beer brewery ?

[newnative]

First, Pattaya is not a 'relatively small beach resort town'. It was at one time but not anymore. I invite anyone to go to the 44th floor pool deck at Centric Sea Condo. From there, you can see north, south, east and west and you get a very good idea of just how big Pattaya has become. Or, try the sky lounge at Hilton. Looking out, more than half of the tall buildings you see were not there 6 years ago, when I arrived, never mind all the 8 story ones. Only six years, a very short time period. In just the last 6 months Centric, The Base, and Unixx have opened, each massive with over 1000 condos each, and those are just the new highrise condos on one road in south/central Pattaya. Pattaya is growing rapidly and each new waterpark, shopping center, amusement, entertainment complex, etc. makes it more desirable as both a tourist destination and as a place to live. I think Terminal 21 will do just fine. The private sector is doing its part. The city, though, needs to be doing much more in the way of road and sidewalk improvements, as well as public transportation. The only work I see is the tunnel project and that's not nearly enough to keep pace with the city's growth.

[little mary sunshine]

Can't wait for it to be finished....Hope it's

Larger than the one in BKK..will it have bowling,

And ice skating too....I understand Harbor Mall

Will have an ice rink.....so many wonderful things

To do at the Malls these days.

[JSixpack]

The mere thought of the new mall has already caused another outbreak of TVF Poster New Construction Syndrome (TVFPNCS). It has five stages:

• Puzzlement
• Disbelief; "no need"
• Derision; doom prediction
• Hate (disappointment)
• Acceptance.

It would be helpful to understand the inadequacy of the "my eyeballs at several random intervals didn't see every shop packed" measure of economic success. This may be an insurmountable hurdle, however. Following that, so many of our members are still confounded at how CentralFestival Pattaya Beach even stays open, when in fact it's been a big success. Many of our near-sighted members can't even see any Chinese in there . . . yet the financial reports of Central Pattana PLC offer hard evidence, not the usual coin of our realm: anecdotes.

I think it has more to do with the difficulty of trying to decipher the thought process of the " build more shopping centre " cheerleaders who instantly dismissed the under performance of “The Avenue “ because they said it was a bad idea from the beginning as it’s not an air-conditioned environment and people don’t want to walk around outside.

And yet the new “ Bay “ shopping centre in the final stages of construction on Beach Road is similar in many respects right down to the external escalator and the need to walk around outside to go from shop to shop.

So what lessons have they learned?

A broken clock, twice a day. Who's "they?"

Best lesson for a poster to learn is simply "wait and see" if you have no sound economic basis for making a prediction. Let those making the investments worry about the performance of said investments.

[JSixpack]

First, Pattaya is not a 'relatively small beach resort town'. It was at one time but not anymore. I invite anyone to go to the 44th floor pool deck at Centric Sea Condo. From there, you can see north, south, east and west and you get a very good idea of just how big Pattaya has become. Or, try the sky lounge at Hilton. Looking out, more than half of the tall buildings you see were not there 6 years ago, when I arrived, never mind all the 8 story ones. Only six years, a very short time period. In just the last 6 months Centric, The Base, and Unixx have opened, each massive with over 1000 condos each, and those are just the new highrise condos on one road in south/central Pattaya. Pattaya is growing rapidly and each new waterpark, shopping center, amusement, entertainment complex, etc. makes it more desirable as both a tourist destination and as a place to live. I think Terminal 21 will do just fine. The private sector is doing its part. The city, though, needs to be doing much more in the way of road and sidewalk improvements, as well as public transportation. The only work I see is the tunnel project and that's not nearly enough to keep pace with the city's growth.

They have put the cart before the horse.

There's no monolithic "they." You've confused private developers with The Authorities responsible for the public works. A common mistake here. It's even been posted that The Authorities put up Central. That explains that disaster, destined to fall down just any time.

Developers are developin' despite the state of the current infrastructure. They've taken it into account. It's even possible they may contribute to the improving of it, indirectly by expanding the tax/fee base, or directly as Central did with the extension of the power grid. It's about the only hope (a slim one at that) that we'll someday have some sort of mass transit system. Big businesses have to see that they're losing a lot without one, or that they can make a lot more with one--and exert pressure accordingly. Things haven't yet become THAT bad, by Thai standards, not those of Santa Barbara.

Common practice in Third World countries, nothing unusual.

[DrTuner]

The related traffic congestion will be horrendous!!

On the other hand, it may draw traffic away from places I want to go, so 'every cloud ...'

Gee I can remember when we had Big C north and not much else. Even TukCom was empty and sitting idle. Monthly shopping treks to Bangkok were almost a necessity.

... and the Thais appear to be coming back

I assume he means as tourists to Pattaya. Most of them, presumably, from Bangkok. Can't see many of them putting a mall on Pattaya Nua on their must-do agenda.

I'd agree with you, although you'll find several of our frequent posters believing new malls are being built in Pattaya predominately for the Bangkok Thais coming down at weekends!!!!!

When I returned home to the Darksiders from Harbor this morning, the backup on the 7 flyover on the opposite side to enter Pattaya stretched back almost 5 kilometers...so certainly little evidence that the Bangkok Thais are coming g to Pattaya on their holiday weekends. ?

I drive the BKK-Pattaya stretch every Friday. Leave BKK after 15:30 and it's bumper to bumper most of the way, with traffic at complete stop near Suvarnabhum, Chonburi intersection and Laem Chabang intersection. The hordes descend in force.

[morrobay]

Terminal 21 may be just the thing to raise Pattays image , could also be a monumental flop.

There is also the recently opened Harbor Mall so I am thinking Pattaya is saturated as far as Malls are concerned.

It will become competition between them.

There is also the matter of infrastructure... the roads in Pattaya are already choked up... I do not see there being enough customers to warrant all this shopping. Much is being made of the increasing Chinese Market but they are not big spenders, but looky-loos who actually deter other customers,

So to add to the Mall saturation in Pattaya :In addition to Terminal 21 , Harbor Mall , there is

" The Bay : on Beach rd @ Soi 6 & Soi 5 ( where there has not been any new work for about 2 weeks ?)

And from the link; 'There are those that believe it will be good for Pattaya

and others think it will result in many businesses being forced to close. '

Just because Pattaya is becoming Bangkok by the Bay, it does not necessarily follow that all this excessive over development is going to have enough customer support.

If these developers are banking on the masses of Chinese and masses of Thais that are jamming the roads in Pattaya every day to make it - they are dreaming.

Edited May 1, 2016 by morrobay

[DrTuner]

The future of Pattaya beach road is a 3km long mall, with the "beach" eroded to a 5cm strip with a couple of grainns of sand in it. Hooters will stretch the entire length on the rooftops, offering chicken wings at mere 2000b each for the Thai Elite Visa holders only. Enjoy!