Why Build a Terminal 21 in Pattaya? by The Pattaya Sleuth

[onemorechang]

Perhaps Terminal 21 will have adequate parking for buses. That would be nice. Those are what cause all the delays, damage, and traffic in this town. I've got a motorcycle so I usually am able to maneuver thru it all. But there are times when I'd just rather stay home than go out shopping because of the hassle of traffic and grid lock.

Not 100% true about buses and traffic.

Selfish Thai pickup / car drives do plenty adding to unnecessary traffic congestion in this town.

Me first, me first, get out the way, The man babies of Thailand.

[Ireland32]

Perhaps Terminal 21 will have adequate parking for buses. That would be nice. Those are what cause all the delays, damage, and traffic in this town. I've got a motorcycle so I usually am able to maneuver thru it all. But there are times when I'd just rather stay home than go out shopping because of the hassle of traffic and grid lock.

Not 100% true about buses and traffic.

Selfish Thai pickup / car drives do plenty adding to unnecessary traffic congestion in this town.

Me first, me first, get out the way, The man babies of Thailand.

THAIFIRSTNESS... Edited May 27, 2016 by Ireland32

[i claudius]

It's so bad now we have given up going into town at weekends,God help us when its built

[Seizetheday]

Well if more Chines tour groups are coming ,thats it ,we all know what big spenders they are .

One of our fave w@nks on the forum. Poor Chinese scavenging in the rubble, not spending anything like the traditional ol' yobos & mongers, those engines of true prosperity. It's so disgusting that City Hall forces corporations to tell outrageous lies like the following, cookin' the books to fool all them stupid auditors and analysts:

Improved performance of existing projects e.g. at CentralWorld, CentralPlaza Lardprao, CentralPlaza Pattaya Beach, etc., supported by spending from foreign tourists mainly from China and Korea during their summer travel season. . . . On a q-o-q basis, revenues from hotel operation increased by 6% thanks mainly to higher occupancy and room rate at Hilton Pattaya Beach Hotel with occupancy high at 92% in the third quarter, enhancing RevPar up 4% q-o-q as a result of an increasing number of Chinese and Korean tourist visits during their travel season in July-August. . . . continuing growth in hotel business with higher occupancy in this quarter on the back of increasing number of foreign tourists visiting Hilton Pattaya Beach Hotel. . . . However, the food court at CentralFestival Pattaya Beach experienced revenue growth, driven by higher traffic from tourist visits in the third quarter.

--Central Pattana PCL, Performance Overview: Overall economic condition in 3Q15

And since all TVF economic experts absolutely KNOW that Chinese tourists only spend money in Chinese venues like Central and the Hilton (and now Tesco Lotus and Foodland, as I saw quite a few in there recently), we have the completely bizarre situation whereby Thai banks kindly provide up to 166 billion baht to Chinese tourists, and therefore to China, for no possible reason other than for Immigration to collect visa fees over one holiday!

The nations seven commercial banks have prepared up to 166 billion baht for spending during the holiday, up by 9.7 billion last year. Bangkok Bank has reserved 35 billion baht for the period, Siam Commercial Bank has prepared 33 billion, Krungsri Bank has set aside 28.6 billion, Krungthai Bank has readied 20 billion and Kasikorn Bank has made sure to have 40 billion baht on hand.

--Banks confident Chinese New Year spending to be lively

Oddly, as TVF economists sneer at TAT's figures of rising numbers of tourists (and are still in denial about the construction of Suvarnabhumi Airport), the banks and the Mastercard Asia Pacific Destinations Index seem to agree more that the Chinese numbers are in fact rising, perhaps 16% annually according to the brokerage CLSA. Yes, dear CRASH! forecasters, CLSA took into account your knee-jerk about any economic slowdown:

But rising individualism and financial independence are seeing more and more young Chinese choose to defy custom, while at the same time tourism and outbound travel are surging. . . . Growing numbers are also seizing the opportunity for tourism, despite slowing growth in the world's second-largest economy. . . . Chinese travellers are by far the biggest spenders in the world, splashing $165 billion in countries they visited last year, according to the United Nations World Tourism Organisation.

--New Year, New Travel: More Chinese Choose Tourism Over Tradition

Gotta love TVF economics.

TAT's own figures are that 5 Chinese tourists spend as much as one Russian tourist. There probably is an increase of visitors to Thailand, but most of them won't be shopping at Terminal 21, old chap.

[JSixpack]

Well if more Chines tour groups are coming ,thats it ,we all know what big spenders they are .

One of our fave w@nks on the forum. Poor Chinese scavenging in the rubble, not spending anything like the traditional ol' yobos & mongers, those engines of true prosperity. It's so disgusting that City Hall forces corporations to tell outrageous lies like the following, cookin' the books to fool all them stupid auditors and analysts:

Improved performance of existing projects e.g. at CentralWorld, CentralPlaza Lardprao, CentralPlaza Pattaya Beach, etc., supported by spending from foreign tourists mainly from China and Korea during their summer travel season. . . . On a q-o-q basis, revenues from hotel operation increased by 6% thanks mainly to higher occupancy and room rate at Hilton Pattaya Beach Hotel with occupancy high at 92% in the third quarter, enhancing RevPar up 4% q-o-q as a result of an increasing number of Chinese and Korean tourist visits during their travel season in July-August. . . . continuing growth in hotel business with higher occupancy in this quarter on the back of increasing number of foreign tourists visiting Hilton Pattaya Beach Hotel. . . . However, the food court at CentralFestival Pattaya Beach experienced revenue growth, driven by higher traffic from tourist visits in the third quarter.

--Central Pattana PCL, Performance Overview: Overall economic condition in 3Q15

And since all TVF economic experts absolutely KNOW that Chinese tourists only spend money in Chinese venues like Central and the Hilton (and now Tesco Lotus and Foodland, as I saw quite a few in there recently), we have the completely bizarre situation whereby Thai banks kindly provide up to 166 billion baht to Chinese tourists, and therefore to China, for no possible reason other than for Immigration to collect visa fees over one holiday!

The nations seven commercial banks have prepared up to 166 billion baht for spending during the holiday, up by 9.7 billion last year. Bangkok Bank has reserved 35 billion baht for the period, Siam Commercial Bank has prepared 33 billion, Krungsri Bank has set aside 28.6 billion, Krungthai Bank has readied 20 billion and Kasikorn Bank has made sure to have 40 billion baht on hand.

--Banks confident Chinese New Year spending to be lively

Oddly, as TVF economists sneer at TAT's figures of rising numbers of tourists (and are still in denial about the construction of Suvarnabhumi Airport), the banks and the Mastercard Asia Pacific Destinations Index seem to agree more that the Chinese numbers are in fact rising, perhaps 16% annually according to the brokerage CLSA. Yes, dear CRASH! forecasters, CLSA took into account your knee-jerk about any economic slowdown:

But rising individualism and financial independence are seeing more and more young Chinese choose to defy custom, while at the same time tourism and outbound travel are surging. . . . Growing numbers are also seizing the opportunity for tourism, despite slowing growth in the world's second-largest economy. . . . Chinese travellers are by far the biggest spenders in the world, splashing $165 billion in countries they visited last year, according to the United Nations World Tourism Organisation.

--New Year, New Travel: More Chinese Choose Tourism Over Tradition

Gotta love TVF economics.

TAT's own figures are that 5 Chinese tourists spend as much as one Russian tourist. There probably is an increase of visitors to Thailand, but most of them won't be shopping at Terminal 21, old chap.

We only sneer at TAT here at TVF. The rule is that TAT's figures are all nonsense. Sorry.

Nor do "most" of them have to be shopping at Terminal 21 for that mall to enjoy success. I doubt "most" of them shop at Central either. You have the figures, right?

Nor did anybody say they would be so shopping. Typical straw man argument.

Next.

[DMC1]

Well if more Chines tour groups are coming ,thats it ,we all know what big spenders they are .

One of our fave w@nks on the forum. Poor Chinese scavenging in the rubble, not spending anything like the traditional ol' yobos & mongers, those engines of true prosperity. It's so disgusting that City Hall forces corporations to tell outrageous lies like the following, cookin' the books to fool all them stupid auditors and analysts:

Improved performance of existing projects e.g. at CentralWorld, CentralPlaza Lardprao, CentralPlaza Pattaya Beach, etc., supported by spending from foreign tourists mainly from China and Korea during their summer travel season. . . . On a q-o-q basis, revenues from hotel operation increased by 6% thanks mainly to higher occupancy and room rate at Hilton Pattaya Beach Hotel with occupancy high at 92% in the third quarter, enhancing RevPar up 4% q-o-q as a result of an increasing number of Chinese and Korean tourist visits during their travel season in July-August. . . . continuing growth in hotel business with higher occupancy in this quarter on the back of increasing number of foreign tourists visiting Hilton Pattaya Beach Hotel. . . . However, the food court at CentralFestival Pattaya Beach experienced revenue growth, driven by higher traffic from tourist visits in the third quarter.

--Central Pattana PCL, Performance Overview: Overall economic condition in 3Q15

And since all TVF economic experts absolutely KNOW that Chinese tourists only spend money in Chinese venues like Central and the Hilton (and now Tesco Lotus and Foodland, as I saw quite a few in there recently), we have the completely bizarre situation whereby Thai banks kindly provide up to 166 billion baht to Chinese tourists, and therefore to China, for no possible reason other than for Immigration to collect visa fees over one holiday!

The nations seven commercial banks have prepared up to 166 billion baht for spending during the holiday, up by 9.7 billion last year. Bangkok Bank has reserved 35 billion baht for the period, Siam Commercial Bank has prepared 33 billion, Krungsri Bank has set aside 28.6 billion, Krungthai Bank has readied 20 billion and Kasikorn Bank has made sure to have 40 billion baht on hand.

--Banks confident Chinese New Year spending to be lively

Oddly, as TVF economists sneer at TAT's figures of rising numbers of tourists (and are still in denial about the construction of Suvarnabhumi Airport), the banks and the Mastercard Asia Pacific Destinations Index seem to agree more that the Chinese numbers are in fact rising, perhaps 16% annually according to the brokerage CLSA. Yes, dear CRASH! forecasters, CLSA took into account your knee-jerk about any economic slowdown:

But rising individualism and financial independence are seeing more and more young Chinese choose to defy custom, while at the same time tourism and outbound travel are surging. . . . Growing numbers are also seizing the opportunity for tourism, despite slowing growth in the world's second-largest economy. . . . Chinese travellers are by far the biggest spenders in the world, splashing $165 billion in countries they visited last year, according to the United Nations World Tourism Organisation.

--New Year, New Travel: More Chinese Choose Tourism Over Tradition

Gotta love TVF economics.

TAT's own figures are that 5 Chinese tourists spend as much as one Russian tourist. There probably is an increase of visitors to Thailand, but most of them won't be shopping at Terminal 21, old chap.

Where do you shop? Stone table? Outside 7/11? A few big Changs?

[bbi1]

Why Build a Terminal 21 in Pattaya? - to break up the monopoly that Central Festival has There's nowhere else decent to go hang out in a shopping centre. Soon there will be another. Oh, and Terminal 21 food court in BKK has the cheapest food out of any food court. If they do the same price in Pattaya then it will be nearly half the price of Central Festival. Plus the size of the food court will be double the size too hopefully.

[tropo]

3 hours ago, bbi1 said:

Why Build a Terminal 21 in Pattaya? - to break up the monopoly that Central Festival has There's nowhere else decent to go hang out in a shopping centre. Soon there will be another. Oh, and Terminal 21 food court in BKK has the cheapest food out of any food court. If they do the same price in Pattaya then it will be nearly half the price of Central Festival. Plus the size of the food court will be double the size too hopefully.

Spot on! I visited Terminal 21 in Bangkok for the first time last month and was astounded at how cheap the food court was - with better quality than Central Food Court too. It was pumping - never a free seat to be found. Central Mall will have to up their game to compete. Competition is always good, and it's about time Central had some.  Look what Siam Paragon did to Central World in Bangkok - they killed it. 

[tropo]

On 5/27/2016 at 7:36 PM, JSixpack said:

We only sneer at TAT here at TVF. The rule is that TAT's figures are all nonsense. Sorry.

Nor do "most" of them have to be shopping at Terminal 21 for that mall to enjoy success. I doubt "most" of them shop at Central either. You have the figures, right?

Nor did anybody say they would be so shopping. Typical straw man argument.

Next.

A lot of Chinese shop at Central Festival. I was in one clothing shop there yesterday and I nearly forgot I was in Thailand - they're very loud.

[Anthony5]

6 minutes ago, tropo said:

Spot on! I visited Terminal 21 in Bangkok for the first time last month and was astounded at how cheap the food court was - with better quality than Central Food Court too. It was pumping - never a free seat to be found. Central Mall will have to up their game to compete. Competition is always good, and it's about time Central had some.  Look what Siam Paragon did to Central World in Bangkok - they killed it. 

 

 

And JSixpack just posted a few times already that Central World is ever improving, because Central Pattana says so, so it can't be dead.

[Jingthing]

Spot on! I visited Terminal 21 in Bangkok for the first time last month and was astounded at how cheap the food court was - with better quality than Central Food Court too. It was pumping - never a free seat to be found. Central Mall will have to up their game to compete. Competition is always good, and it's about time Central had some.  Look what Siam Paragon did to Central World in Bangkok - they killed it. 

Yeah ... that food court is amazing. What do you wanna bet that the Pattaya version won't stack up to that?

[tropo]

3 hours ago, Anthony5 said:

 

 

And JSixpack just posted a few times already that Central World is ever improving, because Central Pattana says so, so it can't be dead.

I do know that Terminal 21 was pumping on all the days I went there.  

[tropo]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah ... that food court is amazing. What do you wanna bet that the Pattaya version won't stack up to that?

Who knows? The food court in the Terminal 21 in Bangkok is a huge magnet, so it could be part of their shopping mall concept. The long 3 story escalators (or is it 4?) to get people straight up there is a brilliant concept. Once they have eaten they are way up there with nothing to do other than shop. It's surprising Central Festival in Pattaya put the food court on the ground floor.

[Pdaz]

On 5/2/2016 at 0:59 PM, Berty100 said:

I'm not sure if they build shopping malls for the purpose that you describe.

It's called cheap Charley drooling.

 

 True.. But most of the same cheap charlies will argue vociferously that their plastic Casio copy is better than a Rolex and nobody needs any branded clothing apart from a Chang Beer vest,  Camel cargo shorts and Bata flip-flops...

[Pdaz]

On 5/5/2016 at 5:16 PM, geisha said:

The main problème in Pattaya is the traffic. If the mayor can sort that out, and stop all the tour buses blocking up the streets, ( total ban on parking on either side of 2 nd road and beach rd) Then more people would come into town more often. A new shopping mall such as Terminal 21 is a good idea. I think most of you out there are male, so don't particularly like shopping ? Have you been to Terminal 21 Bangkok ? The clothes/ fashion shops are different from what you see elsewhere in Pattaya. There are many new designers and small companies there. The fashion choice is completely different and much more inventive. Whereas malls like Central Festival have mainly big shops , Zara, H&M etc, Terminal 21 are individual shops selling fashion you won't find in Central !! Let's be honest, the small clothes shops in Thailand would never tempt a foreigner, design and quality being terrible. All these shops sell the same rubbish. So I think a new mall selling real fashion will be a hit. By the way, Terminal 21 also has great men's fashion too ! Also, these shops aren't selling high priced articles, there are prices for everyone. I see a lot of Thais there, and they spend !!!! What would be nice is a few wine bars , coffee outlets and desserts like in Bangkok as well.

 

Would be great to get a proper " Wine Connection " with full restaurant like in Bangkok. A selection of Mediterranean dishes, Tapas with reasonably priced wine and good atmosphere..  

[Bender]

i guess Terminal 21 will know the same faith than the Harbor Mall, after few weeks, the mall will be empty........

[Anthony5]

5 hours ago, Bender said:

i guess Terminal 21 will know the same faith than the Harbor Mall, after few weeks, the mall will be empty........

 

Oh no, isn't Harbor the success certain posters here insisted on, even to the point of flaming and ridiculing members who didn't agree with their dreams?

[JSixpack]

13 hours ago, Anthony5 said:

 

 

And JSixpack just posted a few times already that Central World is ever improving, because Central Pattana says so, so it can't be dead.

 

No he didn't. 

 

Our doomsters just SO want stuff to fail (righteous punishment for the wicked, stupid, inferior Thais!) they gotta resort to lyin' like dogs when things don't appear to be going their way.

[JSixpack]

1 hour ago, Anthony5 said:

 

Oh no, isn't Harbor the success certain posters here insisted on, even to the point of flaming and ridiculing members who didn't agree with their dreams?

 

Where did any poster insist that Harbor is a success? Bit early for that ain't it? Now we do have one more month before we can judge whether of the ominous "failure in 6 months" dream has come true or not.

 

TVF Poster New Construction Syndrome continues to claim victims!

Edited August 29, 2016 by JSixpack

[Anthony5]

7 minutes ago, JSixpack said:

 

No he didn't. 

 

Our doomsters just SO want stuff to fail (righteous punishment for the wicked, stupid, inferior Thais!) they gotta resort to lyin' like dogs when things don't appear to be going their way.

 

I must have misread then.

 

On 5/1/2016 at 11:12 AM, JSixpack said:

Improved performance of existing projects e.g. at CentralWorld,

 

1 minute ago, JSixpack said:

 

Where did any poster insist that Harbor is a success? Bit early for that ain't it? Now we do have one more month before we can judge whether of the ominous "failure in 6 months" dream has come true or not.

 

TVF Poster New Construction Syndrome continues to claim victims!

 

Must have misread once again

 

  On 5/2/2016 at 3:37 PM, JSixpack said:

I had had some doubts before, but now, on the basis of your forecasting track record, we can all rest assured that Terminal 21 will indeed be a success

 

 

 

On 2/24/2016 at 11.34 AM Jsixpack said:

 

Their eyesight and business sense won't improve for Harbor.

We've nothing but predictions of failure so far, which probably means it will be a success.

[i claudius]

Really do not know id Harbour mall is a success or not ,to be honest went in first week looked around , since then we have been there 4 times , just pop into the supermarket after visiting Foodland ,

[JSixpack]

1 hour ago, Anthony5 said:

 

I must have misread then.

 

 

Yawn. Yep, so much, ah, misreading. CPN says that Central World contributed to an improved bottom line for the quarter. Now you may believe what CPN says or regard them as liars--foolin' all them stupid auditors & analysts & 'verstors an such. Meanwhile, the share price of CPN has quadrupled since our TVF economists predicted certain failure in 2009, so I guess somebody's laughing all the way to bank--not you though.

 

Nor is there any insistence that Harbor will be a success. But yes: if the past predictions of failure for various developments are any indicator, then it will PROBABLY be a success.

 

Edited August 29, 2016 by JSixpack

[Anthony5]

21 minutes ago, JSixpack said:

 

Yawn. Yep, so much, ah, misreading. CPN says that Central World contributed to an improved bottom line for the quarter. Now you may believe what CPN says or regard them as liars--foolin' all them stupid auditors & analysts & 'verstors an such. Meanwhile, the share price of CPN has quadrupled since our TVF economists predicted certain failure in 2009, so I guess somebody's laughing all the way to bank--not you though.

 

Nor is there any insistence that Harbor will be a success. But yes: if the past predictions of failure for various developments are any indicator, then it will PROBABLY be a success.

 

 

 

Only a fool or someone who has completely no idea about stock markets, believes that stock prices reflect the health of a company.

 

Worldcom, Enron, Tyco and HealthSouth are just a few of the worldwide renowned examples that it isn't so, but hey you are the expert all things including investment strategies, isn't it?

Edited August 29, 2016 by Anthony5

[morrobay]

Why build a Terminal 21 in Pattaya ?  Because of the Thai  business mentality that can be seen everywhere:

Take one business in a particular location, dentist , optics ,massage, that is doing well and  zap now there are at least three other identical shops next to it. and everyone loses.

Well now that Pattaya seems to be all about malls.The same thing is happening.

Sure Central Festival Pattaya Beach is doing well, unexpectedly  for some, who could not imagine it would  become a main attraction in Pattaya for thousands of Bangkok Thais and visitors from all over. So now we have Harbor , Terminal 21 and another related "entertainment mall' The Bay at Beach rd/Soi 5 -6.  So remains to be seen. 

Edited August 29, 2016 by morrobay
add

[fforest1]

1 hour ago, morrobay said:

Why build a Terminal 21 in Pattaya ?  Because of the Thai  business mentality that can be seen everywhere:

Take one business in a particular location, dentist , optics ,massage, that is doing well and  zap now there are at least three other identical shops next to it. and everyone loses.

Well now that Pattaya seems to be all about malls.The same thing is happening.

Sure Central Festival Pattaya Beach is doing well, unexpectedly  for some, who could not imagine it would  become a main attraction in Pattaya for thousands of Bangkok Thais and visitors from all over. So now we have Harbor , Terminal 21 and another related "entertainment mall' The Bay at Beach rd/Soi 5 -6.  So remains to be seen. 

 

The Bay mall is sitting there over 3/4ths finished looking almost abandoned for about a year now...

If the market for new malls was so hot it would have already been opened......

 

Some one has spent a huge amount of money on the Bay mall...Its too late to not finish now,but

thats exactly what they are doing NOTHING......

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1 พฤษภาคม 2559 at 0:05 PM, Asiantravel said:

I think it has more to do with the difficulty of trying to decipher the thought process of the " build more shopping centre " cheerleaders who instantly dismissed the under performance of “The Avenue “ because they said it was a bad idea from the beginning as it’s not an air-conditioned environment and people don’t want to walk around outside.

And yet the new “ Bay “ shopping centre in the final stages of construction on Beach Road is similar in many respects right down to the external escalator and the need to walk around outside to go from shop to shop.

So what lessons have they learned?

they said it was a bad idea from the beginning as it’s not an air-conditioned environment and people don’t want to walk around outside.

 

Are you saying that Avenues is a success? I was saying that and it's true. I was at the opening and I could see it wouldn't work. However, for a while the cinema was cheaper than Central so I used to go there.

As for learning a lesson, LOL.

 

I missed this thread in May, but had I seen it then, I'd have said something about how they have always built too many malls in Thailand, just as Pattaya has had too many barbeers since the 90s and there are too many small shops selling identical stuff.

Chiang Mai has a lot of new malls being built and it isn't a very large city.

 

Anyway, so much for saying that Thailand is 3rd world and the people are predominantly poor.

 

I think people forget that there are loads of resorts in that area of Naklua and north Pattaya and that their guests will likely prefer to visit a mall in that area than go to Festival, and it is in a better location than Festival, as no barbeer complexes to destroy there.

I hope they put traffic lights on the bus terminal though as the traffic will get worse if that's possible.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 5 พฤษภาคม 2559 at 0:07 PM, fforest1 said:

The older malls will just lower their rent....Retail stores love

nothing better than paying low rent...

Even the king of malls Centeral Festival has a number of

empty store fronts that are boarded up with nice art work..

There are loads of people in Pattaya who value

value shopping over upscale T21 shopping....

Value shopping??????

Every mall in Bkk and Chiang Mai and Pattaya and Hua Hin sell the same stuff, often from the same brand stores. Given that most are passing through Pattaya, just what is the attraction of buying stuff in Pattaya rather than in Bkk on the way to the airport ( not counting those that go direct to/ from Pattaya and I'd guess most of them aren't in Pattaya for the shopping )?

[Asiantravel]

17 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

they said it was a bad idea from the beginning as it’s not an air-conditioned environment and people don’t want to walk around outside.

 

Are you saying that Avenues is a success? I was saying that and it's true. I was at the opening and I could see it wouldn't work. However, for a while the cinema was cheaper than Central so I used to go there.

As for learning a lesson, LOL.

 

I missed this thread in May, but had I seen it then, I'd have said something about how they have always built too many malls in Thailand, just as Pattaya has had too many barbeers since the 90s and there are too many small shops selling identical stuff.

Chiang Mai has a lot of new malls being built and it isn't a very large city.

 

Anyway, so much for saying that Thailand is 3rd world and the people are predominantly poor.

 

I think people forget that there are loads of resorts in that area of Naklua and north Pattaya and that their guests will likely prefer to visit a mall in that area than go to Festival, and it is in a better location than Festival, as no barbeer complexes to destroy there.

I hope they put traffic lights on the bus terminal though as the traffic will get worse if that's possible.

 

 

" Are you saying that Avenues is a success? "

 

never! Have you seen it recently? Things must be bad when they couldn't even get a  premium outlet store to work in that shopping centre. What I wa saying is that the shopping centre cheerleaders were using the non-air-conditioned environment as an excuse as to why that place has never worked. As opposed to the much simpler reason that there are far less people around now with money to spend

[Bender]

7 hours ago, JSixpack said:

 

Where did any poster insist that Harbor is a success? Bit early for that ain't it? Now we do have one more month before we can judge whether of the ominous "failure in 6 months" dream has come true or not.

 

TVF Poster New Construction Syndrome continues to claim victims!

So now J6P start to admit that maybe the Harbor will not be a guaranteed success..... Does it mean it might be a disaster? 

[JSixpack]

5 hours ago, Anthony5 said:

 

 

Only a fool or someone who has completely no idea about stock markets, believes that stock prices reflect the health of a company.

 

Worldcom, Enron, Tyco and HealthSouth are just a few of the worldwide renowned examples that it isn't so, but hey you are the expert all things including investment strategies, isn't it?

 

It was very wise of you--impressive, too--to avoid quadrupling your money in CPN shares 'cause you know the company is cookin' the books. Just like all them other Thai companies whose malls have done well despite the dire predictions soon as they opened. It doesn't matter that the marketing fundamentals of CentralFestival also happen to be good. That's cause THE most reliable measure of the health of a mall is the good ol' tried-and-true TVF Poster My Eyeballs At Random Intervals measure. That's how you know that CentralFestival Pattaya Beach is in fact bankrupt with, as fforest1 claims, shops all boarded up. Same with Siam Paragon and--thank you for reminding me--Central World. It's all exactly as foretold with uncanny prescience by TVF economists.

 

For example, Siam Paragon:

 

• I really doubt Siam Paragon can survive.
• Anyway, I agree, I foresee zero future for this shopping mall (it was full of people... underground in the food court).
• I think the place is going to a huge "white elephant" after a few months. Matter of fact I was there yesterday sitting outside the skytrain entrance while a friend was smoking a cigarette and we were just chatting and people watching. In the half hour we sat outside only 1 customer (farang tourist) came out with a Siam Paragon Bag.
• no-one anywhere seems to be buying anything!
• Of course almost no one were in any of the over-priced shops.

               --http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/57131-good-bye-bangkok-shopping/

 

And then Central World.

 

The fatal sin committed by Central World, as with Harbor Mall and soon Terminal 21, was to compound the egregious violation of the TVF Poster Only One rule: we already got one we didn't need so we certainly don't need another and therefore nobody's gonna go there. (This, despite Family Marts on every corner.) I mean, Bangkok already had that Siam Paragon about to go bankrupt just any day but also Amarin Plaza, Gaysorn, Siam Discovery, Siam Square, and, of course, Central Chidlom, all of them failing!

 

• Pipe dreams. People from Thailand shop in Singapore and HK to find quality that is generally not available in Thailand. (And people from those countries usually come here looking for *cheap* goods.)
• I think the biggest problem with the place is location.
• What we need here in Thailand is not more luxery shopping centers but stores that carries quality products at reasonable prices and better selection of products to choose.
• I can't imagine shoppers from the Galleria in Houston, or any number of other First-World, fully developed countries, flocking to Bangkok just to get luxury goods.
• . The rich billionaires of Mexico City are not known for flocking to.....Thailand.
•  It's never crowded, you never see people buying stuff (besides the shop selling those cheap plastic purses), and there are almost no thai's that go there. Thai's prefer places like "The Mall" or MBK for prices or places like Paragon or Emporium for image.
• Who is going to pay those prices?
• :TIT:
• All of these new shopping malls are heading for a spectacular crash, there simply isn't enough customers and never will be.

               --http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/76404-central-world-thailands-largest-shopping-complex-opens-july-21/?page=1

 

Incredibly, member Heng, one of the few posting here with good business sense, an investor himself, dared observe: They were saying the same thing about Emporium and Discovery Center before they got off the ground. Last I heard they were doing better than 'just breaking even.' OMG. Saffron-tinted glasses!

 

In the end it probably comes down to Thais doing something that appears not to depend obviously on the patronage of the quality tourists and residents, i.e., the "naughty mongers," the economic powerhouses behind Pattaya's now-vanished prosperity, the great jobs creators: none other than the Golden Eggs Layers, most of whom have by now fled to the paradise of Cambodia if they aren't staying over at Soi Buakhao. Those few Golden Eggs Layers remaining won't be shopping/eating/ice skating there, heh. Harbor, as has been astutely observed by one of our economists, isn't even on a major baht bus route! So constructing those white elephants is just plain stupid. Yeah, stupid Thais. Feels so good to think that.

 

Hence I wouldn't place too much faith in the usual doom predictions about Terminal 21 and Harbor. Our near-sighted members will never be able to see anybody in there, as they still can't in CentralFestival, but it's still more likely than not that--to great consternation--they'll be staying open, the rental vacancy rate after 3 years will be less than 10%, and I for one will be enjoying a visit there now and then.