Thailand rebuffs railway deal with China

[webfact]

Thailand rebuffs railway deal with China

Failure of deal highlights challenge facing China's 'Belt and Road' plan

BANGKOK • Chinese President Xi Jinping is so devoted to his Silk Road project for China to deepen economic ties across Asia that he recently had top Communist officials attend a "study" session on the millennia-old history of the route.

References to the initiative, launched by Mr Xi in 2013 and known as the "Belt and Road" plan, have become ubiquitous in China, down to even in-flight magazines on its aircraft. As part of the Communist party chief's vision of moving China beyond a century of humiliation at the hands of foreigners, the plan would strengthen trade and investment ties, especially with Central and South-east Asian neighbours.

In many ways, the idea makes sense. Those regional neighbours need trillions of dollars' worth of investment to build roads, railways, utilities and airports. And China has surplus industrial capacity, along with access to capital.

Full story: http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/thailand-rebuffs-railway-deal-with-china

-- THE STRAITS TIMES 2016-05-05

[jaltsc]

"Conditions on the offer of Chinese funding and construction help - at least in the Thai case and according to that country's government - were strings that its neighbour wasn't comfortable accepting. "

"Strings", like the grounding all electric installations.

[smutcakes]

The Chinese are trying to screw the Thais??? Well i never, and the Thai Govt have just realized this??

Most people could have told them that 2 years ago before wasting that time.

[ChrisY1]

The commissions weren't going to be to their liking

[casualbiker]

The Thais are doing what they have always done. They talk to two enemies to get the best deal.. In this case China and Japan. In the end China will pay for and build the north-south and Japan the west-east..

[shirtless]

China does not give out freebies , Thailand you will pay a heavy price

[Squeegee]

A century of humiliation at the hands of foreigners.

Oh, go on then, China, you twisted my arm not to come.

[keemapoot]

Good to see Thailand not biting on the easy bait. This administration looked like it was cozying up to China, but Prayut has a few strategic moves he learned as a General. Playing the Japan card is smart, as is bringing back in other counterbalancing powers like the US.

In the end, there will perhaps be some agreement, though it will take longer, and the cards will not be stacked in China's favor on the 2nd go around.

[oxo1947]

The Chinese are trying to screw the Thais??? Well i never, and the Thai Govt have just realized this??

Most people could have told them that 2 years ago before wasting that time.

So---most people could have told America years ago==now that are now over 1.27 trillion dollars in debt to China--most people could have told the UK years not to get in debt with China---before they lost their steel industry.

I guess what they needed years ago was a smart farang like you smutcakes from 1 of those countries to tell them.....what they have now realised & your countries didn't...................................

Maybe they are not so stupid as the Farangs............

Edited May 5, 2016 by oxo1947

[smutcakes]

The Chinese are trying to screw the Thais??? Well i never, and the Thai Govt have just realized this??

Most people could have told them that 2 years ago before wasting that time.

So---most people could have told America years ago==now that are now over 1.27 trillion dollars in debt to China--most people could have told the UK years not to get in debt with China---before they lost their steel industry.

I guess what they needed years ago was a smart farang like you smutcakes from 1 of those countries to tell them.....what they have now realised & your countries didn't...................................

Maybe they are not so stupid as the Farangs............

Well perhaps you could use those cases as precedent about what might happen in Thailand.....

Or you could ask 'Why' would the Chinese fund a train through Thailand? Out of the goodness of their heart? How nice...

[Nigeone]

Oh dear...the price of the subs just went up !! Or even older ones for the same price maybe !! and no maintaince contract...!!

[LindsayBKK]

Laos and Indonesia gave away?land along the ?railway?routes
They will regret it
Have you been to ?Japan?
Thailand don't budge!!!
Tell China to <deleted> off

[Srikcir]

Thai Transport Minister Arkhom Termpittayapaisith stressed that the "door is still open" to Chinese financing, saying:

"Domestically, we have plenty of money."

He apparently didn’t get the memo that the government suffered a budget deficit for the first six months of fiscal year 2016.

[KMartinHandyman]

The Chinese are trying to screw the Thais??? Well i never, and the Thai Govt have just realized this??

Most people could have told them that 2 years ago before wasting that time.

So---most people could have told America years ago==now that are now over 1.27 trillion dollars in debt to China--most people could have told the UK years not to get in debt with China---before they lost their steel industry.

I guess what they needed years ago was a smart farang like you smutcakes from 1 of those countries to tell them.....what they have now realised & your countries didn't...................................

Maybe they are not so stupid as the Farangs............

Sounds like China has a 1.27 trillion dollar problem to me.

Like the old joke when a poor man owes the bank a thousand dollars he's got a problem and when the same poor man owes the bank $1 million the bank has a problem.

[nausea]

Land rights are big deal for the Thais, and non negotiable I would imagine. The whole "only Thais can own land" thing historically stemmed from fear of a Chinese takeover of the country. Also, if my memory serves me correctly, the majority population in BKK was at one time Chinese, not Thai, which I found, well, surprising.

[chicowoodduck]

Sooner or later everyone will have Made in China stamped on their rear ends...?

[chicowoodduck]

Sooner or later everyone will have Made in China stamped on their rear ends...?

[jadee]

The cynic in me thinks that the Thai government pulled out because they weren't getting their cut. On the other hand, I'd like to think that the government are acting in the best interests of the Thais and not selling them down the road for personal gain.

[Lee4Life]

The Chinese are trying to screw the Thais??? Well i never, and the Thai Govt have just realized this??

Most people could have told them that 2 years ago before wasting that time.

So---most people could have told America years ago==now that are now over 1.27 trillion dollars in debt to China--most people could have told the UK years not to get in debt with China---before they lost their steel industry.

I guess what they needed years ago was a smart farang like you smutcakes from 1 of those countries to tell them.....what they have now realised & your countries didn't...................................

Maybe they are not so stupid as the Farangs............

It must be hard to be so humble...and so intelligent. What is with the italics anyway? Are you quoting someone?

[GAZZPA]

The Chinese are trying to screw the Thais??? Well i never, and the Thai Govt have just realized this??

Most people could have told them that 2 years ago before wasting that time.

So---most people could have told America years ago==now that are now over 1.27 trillion dollars in debt to China--most people could have told the UK years not to get in debt with China---before they lost their steel industry.

I guess what they needed years ago was a smart farang like you smutcakes from 1 of those countries to tell them.....what they have now realised & your countries didn't...................................

Maybe they are not so stupid as the Farangs............

China has about 6% of the total US debt, the vast majority is owed to the US taxpayer so your numbers are nonsense and out of context.

For the UK steel industry, you have no idea what you are talking about. China is by far the biggest steel producer in the World now, it has been for a very long time. The UK is relatively small in comparison and is focusing on higher quality (at least thats the plan). The issue with UK steel is complicated, it is a combination of falling global demand (resulting in China needing to export more), very high energy costs in the UK and high labour costs. The UK actually export over 6 times more steel then it imports from China. So yes, it has an impact and anti dumping laws need to be strict to stop China from dumping excess steel within the EU at a loss but it is not the sole driving factor.

Like all manufacturing across the west the imports and manufacturing in China have changed many, if not all industries, not just steel.

Reforms are needed along with investment back in the Western countries where China cannot compete as well as it once could. Don't forget China prices are rising rapidly which is why they are looking to invest in manufacturing in the Asean. So, the West has an opportunity to start turning things around in the coming decade and it needs to do so.

So, your comments mean nothing really, so do some homework bozo before accusing all the "smutcakes"!

[Siamthomas]

I suppose half Chinese and Thai restaurants and babies may not be a bad idea. Considering the massive corruption in China. Such a lovely place China. You would have to pay me to go there. They would sell there mothers.

[elgordo38]

China does not give out freebies , Thailand you will pay a heavy price

Your right they are all over the world with their surplus cash received for all the junk they shipped to the USA. They are definitely smart they would sooner be lending money to eager countries with strings attached they keep it in US treasury bills that might prove worthless someday.

[elgordo38]

The cynic in me thinks that the Thai government pulled out because they weren't getting their cut. On the other hand, I'd like to think that the government are acting in the best interests of the Thais and not selling them down the road for personal gain.

I will go with the cynic in you and well me to. China will sharpen its pencil and come back with a sweetened deal. The Thai's just don't want to look like a pushover.

[Lupatria]

How about switching to NK as similarities are growing. The ruler has a huge number of "workers" with completed AA-courses in special camps ready to be transferred and he would be happy if he gets paid in rotten rice.

[Tomtomtom69]

The Chinese are trying to screw the Thais??? Well i never, and the Thai Govt have just realized this??

Most people could have told them that 2 years ago before wasting that time.

Exactly. However, the Thais are at least a little smarter than China's South-East Asian lapdog, Laos. That country has virtually already turned into an economic colony of China, with Lao citizens who protest their eviction from their homes because a Chinese investor wants to build something being taken away and never heard from again. Large agricultural concessions and at least one major casino, and Chinese writing all over the place are evidence of this.

In parts of Northern Laos, the problem of Chinese investment and illegal immigration is so significant that not only does it look like you're already in China, but you can't get anything done if you don't speak Chinese! That means Lao living in their own country, can't order food, can't check into a hotel without knowing Chinese, in their own country! This is true in parts of Udomxai, Luang Nam Tha and especially Phongsali provinces. Also in Bokeo at the Kings Roman casino where most gamblers are Chinese and everything including restaurant menus, the currency, the timezone and even the mobile/cellular networks are all Chinese!

The Thais are right not to want too much Chinese influence in their country, because these sorts of deals always have strings attached, with the Chinese ultimately receiving all the spoils, while the host country loses out.

The Lao for their part did at least delay the construction of the part of the railway that would be going through their country by a few years after they realized the original deal would be tantamount to China taking away a large chunk of their territory. The deal would have had China getting exclusive rights for mining, warehousing, and any other development 5km on either side of the railway line, which is supposed to be 421km long.

More recently, there have been reports that the project is going ahead, with constructing starting on the Lao side now, possibly in early anticipation of the Thais agreeing to it last year. It could be however that it has quietly stopped since a railway line to landlocked Vientiane would end up being a white elephant project for China. However, perhaps the Chinese are so sneaky that they think that the Thais may still change their minds again and thus will go ahead with the Lao construction anyway, on the off chance that perhaps the Thai side will eventually agree by the time construction is nearly finished, or when a new government comes into power? At least they would be able to exploit Lao minerals more easily while shipping in hundreds of thousands of otherwise unemployed workers, many of whom will stay after construction has finished and open up Chinese shops rather than going back home.

Another alternative which could eventuate if access to the sea is really the main reason for building this line (which I think it is) they could route the line through Laos to go down to Cambodia, ending up at Sihanoukville. Since Cambodia is China's second main lapdog in SE Asia, this wouldn't be difficult to do either, as it would face almost no political opposition, though the line would become a lot longer than the original one through Thailand, but that would at least be a compromise solution.

Note that while this hasn't been proposed, but I'm fairly sure it's at least been considered as an alternative. Of course by the time that happens, there's always a chance Cambodia might wake up and realize what China's true intentions are and abandon any such project, as Myanmar has done in recent years after many decades of strong political support and Chinese investment that has exploited Burmese natural resources with little of the money flowing back to Myanmar's citizens. Of course in Myanmar's case it was abandoning it's old isolationist policy and opening up to the west that resulted in these changes.

[Tomtomtom69]

Good to see Thailand not biting on the easy bait. This administration looked like it was cozying up to China, but Prayut has a few strategic moves he learned as a General. Playing the Japan card is smart, as is bringing back in other counterbalancing powers like the US.

In the end, there will perhaps be some agreement, though it will take longer, and the cards will not be stacked in China's favor on the 2nd go around.

I agree with you 100%. At first it looked a bit suspicious, but now it's clear that Thailand is not in any way trying to court the Chinese more than in the past just because it has lost some western political support. It's more a case of counterbalancing different world powers as Thailand has always done. Perhaps a reason why Thailand is mainland South-East Asia's only country not to have been colonized (though it did lose substantial parts of it's territory to the colonial powers) and to this day remains a proud and relatively strong independent nation, which, despite it's faults continues to have mainland SEA's largest economy and it's most developed country, by a large margin, with the exception of Malaysia and Singapore of course.

[Tomtomtom69]

Laos and Indonesia gave away?land along the ?railway?routes

They will regret it

Have you been to ?Japan?

Thailand don't budge!!!

Tell China to <deleted> off

I thought the Indonesian high-speed rail project has already been shelved? As for Laos, yes, that was part of the original deal but it has been significantly revised under the latest one. Of course as I have already pointed out in my first reply, I suspect China will have to at least delay, if not abandon the whole project through Laos since no agreement with Thailand has been forthcoming.

[keemapoot]

Good to see Thailand not biting on the easy bait. This administration looked like it was cozying up to China, but Prayut has a few strategic moves he learned as a General. Playing the Japan card is smart, as is bringing back in other counterbalancing powers like the US.

In the end, there will perhaps be some agreement, though it will take longer, and the cards will not be stacked in China's favor on the 2nd go around.

I agree with you 100%. At first it looked a bit suspicious, but now it's clear that Thailand is not in any way trying to court the Chinese more than in the past just because it has lost some western political support. It's more a case of counterbalancing different world powers as Thailand has always done. Perhaps a reason why Thailand is mainland South-East Asia's only country not to have been colonized (though it did lose substantial parts of it's territory to the colonial powers) and to this day remains a proud and relatively strong independent nation, which, despite it's faults continues to have mainland SEA's largest economy and it's most developed country, by a large margin, with the exception of Malaysia and Singapore of course.

Indeed, and I wouldn't be surprised if they have a core course at the National defence College of Thailand (where Prayut attended) in exactly that, a course titled something like "How to counterbalance world powers when you are a small country to maintain your claim to never having been a colony (not counting Japan)" or something like that.

[Mook23]

Sooner or later everyone will have Made in China stamped on their rear ends...?

that. or "approved by china" or "financed by china" or "made for china", the latter when we are wearing their used undies cuz we can't afford 1st hand any longer...

[Mook23]

Good to see Thailand not biting on the easy bait. This administration looked like it was cozying up to China, but Prayut has a few strategic moves he learned as a General. Playing the Japan card is smart, as is bringing back in other counterbalancing powers like the US.

In the end, there will perhaps be some agreement, though it will take longer, and the cards will not be stacked in China's favor on the 2nd go around.

I agree with you 100%. At first it looked a bit suspicious, but now it's clear that Thailand is not in any way trying to court the Chinese more than in the past just because it has lost some western political support. It's more a case of counterbalancing different world powers as Thailand has always done. Perhaps a reason why Thailand is mainland South-East Asia's only country not to have been colonized (though it did lose substantial parts of it's territory to the colonial powers) and to this day remains a proud and relatively strong independent nation, which, despite it's faults continues to have mainland SEA's largest economy and it's most developed country, by a large margin, with the exception of Malaysia and Singapore of course.

Indeed, and I wouldn't be surprised if they have a core course at the National defence College of Thailand (where Prayut attended) in exactly that, a course titled something like "How to counterbalance world powers when you are a small country to maintain your claim to never having been a colony (not counting Japan)" or something like that.

that never been a colony thingy should be taken with a pinch of salt. thailand has been a crypto-colony of both the French and the Brits AT THE VERY SAME TIME.