Not Easy To Get Taxis To Put On Their Meters.

[Misty]

I too always insist the taxi driver uses the meter.

But I also wonder how the taxi drivers manage to earn a living....in the 13 years I've been in Bangkok, the baht has floated and inflation has climbed. While I believe the gov't does subsidize the price of the LPG the taxis use for fuel, the base rate the meter starts at--Bt35--hasn't changed in at least 13 years....

How do these guys survive?

[hastings]

I personally use taxis in Bangkok as a little as possible.

Bangkok, like most large cities, is a magnet for con artists, scam artists and the like.

that is just silly. taxis in bangkok are generally hassle free

Not the typical story, but it actually happened and was not "hassle free."

During my last stay in Bangkok I caught a cab on a Saturday night from the "meter-taxi" line at at the Conrad where I was staying. I was going to meet friends in Nana which was a 40b cab ride. Once we took off through the parking lot, the cabbie turned around, turned off the meter, and told me that the ride would be 500b. I insisted on the meter, and stated that he should return me to the Conrad if he was not going to use it. Claiming not to speak English, he then asked for 300b. I again insisted on the meter or a return to where I was picked up. His response was to stop the car and try to kick me out. Seeing no upside I decided I would comply. However, before existing I told him that he should not pick up passengers at a line designated for metered taxis, and muttered that he was acting like an a**hole. His English skills had apparently improved because he took great offense to my use of that term. He jumped out of the taxi, swung open the passenger door,and grabbed me. I told him to let go and pushed his hands away. When I stood up outside the taxi, he pushed me. My response, of which I am not particularly proud, was to drop him with a punch to the jaw. He got up, swung at me again, and I dropped him again. At this point another cab stopped and the driver was watching. I started to walk away and the cab driver attacked me again, same result. The cab driver then went to his trunk and I ran.

I later, contacted the police (at the insistence of my Thai girlfriend), but to my knowledge nothing ever happened (before getting into the taxi the doorman at the Conrad gives the passenger a paper with the cab number written on it).

I am just lucky that the driver did not use a weapon (who knows what was in the trunk), the other cab driver only watched, and the police did not try to arrest me based on my report.

This was the first real problem I have had with a taxi (or for that matter with anyone in Thailand) in more than 15 trips. While I still take cabs, I make sure that they agree to the meter before I shut the door. Again, not typical but "hassles" do occur.

Edited February 18, 2007 by hastings

[ashacat]

Wow, that's nasty hastings. Never had anything like that before, unlucky man. I suppose the a-hole taxi driver was prowling outside an upmarket hotel waiting for a farang to scam.

I always stop one which is driving, never had any major problems apart the odd rude b@stard and a few pyscho drivers...

[uhuh]

Thais do ask the driver before they get in whether he is willing to go to their destination. They refuse if its near the end of their shift or traffic jam or they just dont know the way (like from Khlong Tan to Phayathai III).

No need to ask to use the meter, but generally better to flag down a moving cab, avoid the ones waiting at tourist spots.

During the last 2 years, 3 times a driver forgot to turn on the meter. (I use taxis a lot).

Each time they realized it in the middle of the trip, apologized, and asked me at the end of the trip how much the fare was. As I travel the same routes a lot, I always knew the fare and gave him the correct amount.

Thais will not tip. The fare is rounded to the nearest 5 B: instead of 63 B pay 65, instead of 61 pay 60 (yes, the driver loses 1 B, this is completely normal). For 67, I give 70.

Sometimes the meter runs too slow (one of my standard routes cost 63 Baht, and 2 times the meter was about 50 . In these cases i tipped.

Once the meter showed 185 for a distance that always costs 141. GF started innocently to ask the driver whether there is a night surcharge (there is none). He got a bit nervous and when I handed him 170 he happily accepted it and told us this was enough. GF called the complaint hotline anyway (after he had left), but it was 6 a.m. and they sounded like they couldnt really be bothered. They did answer the phone, though.

Yes, some drivers talk about tips (ignore them) or have no change (stop at 7/11 and change money, taxi will wait) or dont want to use the meter (get out and get another cab). And sometimes (very rare) they drive long detours, in this case I dont argue, but get out once I realize it , pay the fare and get another cab.

It is not safe for a single female to take a taxi at night.

[popshirt]

I agree that the taxi queue outside MBK is the worst I have encountered in Bkk. I have given up on it, and either take the skytrain or walk a few blocks to another intersection.

[markuk]

I tell him to turn on the meter.

If he doesn't I get out.

i do the same and leave the door wide open - really anoys them cost their short arms wont reach from the drivers seat the the rear LHS door!!

[TAWP]

I take taxis several times a week, but since I don't live close to any tourist-areas in Bangkok I usually don't have any real problems with cabbies. However upon taking taxis from downtown central I have meet one case of 'meter? yes. meter? chai. meter? uh..chai."-game going on for several minutes before he finally switched on the meter, like he never heard the words 'yes' or 'chai' before...most common is however that some cabbies (rare, but if you use taxis a lot they stack up) just pocked change even if it's above the 5-baht-roundoff. if it happends when my wife is with me she always get very pissed, ofc.

I was more suprised when some relatives (that went back last week) told me that 'they always had to negotiate the price in BKK'. The cabbies just seemed to refuse to use the meter. The downside of living at a fancy hotel it seems. Told them it was require by law and that they should refuse to ride with them if they tried to pull it on them, but as this was last days before going back it doesn't help that they got stiffed at 200baht for a kilometer or two on a regulare basis.

It doesn't make them more inclined to come back and spend a lot of money, so to speak.

[Furbie]

I sometimes wonder if I live in the same Bangkok as other people when I hear some of their comments. How could you live in Bangkok for any length of time and never have had trouble with the taxi drivers?

Sure, I get into 15 or so taxis a week, but 1 or 2 is always a problem.

I guess it depends on how you define problem. Leaving aside the guys who "forget" to turn on the meter, "forget" to reset the meter, tell you to get out of their taxi when you ask them to turn on the meter, take the long way to a destination, repeatedly ask you if you want massage, refuse to take you to your destination, and all the other stupid stuff they do, I will admit I have only been verbally abused by seven or eight taxi drivers for the horrible crime of paying the fare on the meter, and was only physically assaulted by a taxi driver once. So, I guess for some those are good odds.

hastings, I know how you feel, having a fight with a taxi driver was one of the single worst moments in my life – a truly horrid experience.

My poor GF has finally learned that westerners are targets for some very bad actors thanks to going on taxi rides with me - she never truly believed some of my stories before. For example, she could not believe it the first time a taxi driver tried to keep 13 baht in change when she paid him while I was in the taxi. When I told her I often just accept the loss of five baht on a 35 baht fare, she was shocked. For me, it's not worth the altercation – especially in front of my house. The first time she heard a driver call me cheap for not paying more than the fare she was also quite shocked. Now, since this is Thailand I will point out that my GF dresses very conservatively, is unfailingly polite, and will not even hold my hand in public – so don't go there.

Some of the general rules people have mentioned here are helpful, but not fool proof – yes, getting the moving taxis instead of the sharks helps, but not always. Getting taxis from the side opposite Pot Pong (and there are many non Pot Pong related reasons to be in the Silom area, like working there), helps, but many on the other side refuse to turn on their meter too. I suppose I could not work in a tourist area, I'll have to talk to my company about that one. When I need to bring my groceries home from Tesco, what should I do – I need to take a taxi. Bad taxi drivers are a part of life here – a very unfortunate part of life

I have placed that number in my mobile – it will be interesting to see what happens if I ever call.

[jbsears]

I personally use taxis in Bangkok as a little as possible.

Bangkok, like most large cities, is a magnet for con artists, scam artists and the like.

that is just silly. taxis in bangkok are generally hassle free

Not the typical story, but it actually happened and was not "hassle free."

During my last stay in Bangkok I caught a cab on a Saturday night from the "meter-taxi" line at at the Conrad where I was staying. I was going to meet friends in Nana which was a 40b cab ride. Once we took off through the parking lot, the cabbie turned around, turned off the meter, and told me that the ride would be 500b. I insisted on the meter, and stated that he should return me to the Conrad if he was not going to use it. Claiming not to speak English, he then asked for 300b. I again insisted on the meter or a return to where I was picked up. His response was to stop the car and try to kick me out. Seeing no upside I decided I would comply. However, before existing I told him that he should not pick up passengers at a line designated for metered taxis, and muttered that he was acting like an a**hole. His English skills had apparently improved because he took great offense to my use of that term. He jumped out of the taxi, swung open the passenger door,and grabbed me. I told him to let go and pushed his hands away. When I stood up outside the taxi, he pushed me. My response, of which I am not particularly proud, was to drop him with a punch to the jaw. He got up, swung at me again, and I dropped him again. At this point another cab stopped and the driver was watching. I started to walk away and the cab driver attacked me again, same result. The cab driver then went to his trunk and I ran.

I later, contacted the police (at the insistence of my Thai girlfriend), but to my knowledge nothing ever happened (before getting into the taxi the doorman at the Conrad gives the passenger a paper with the cab number written on it).

I am just lucky that the driver did not use a weapon (who knows what was in the trunk), the other cab driver only watched, and the police did not try to arrest me based on my report.

This was the first real problem I have had with a taxi (or for that matter with anyone in Thailand) in more than 15 trips. While I still take cabs, I make sure that they agree to the meter before I shut the door. Again, not typical but "hassles" do occur.

The same thing happened to me at the Conrad a couple years ago except I just got out. Once we left the premises, he demanded 500 baht. I was pretty drunk and it was 2 years ago so I don't remember the details, but I do remember him changing his mind about the meter being used after leaving. Rather interesting.

[Donz]

I just turn the meter on myself, if he starts saying crap i start turning the radio on full blast, turning the aircon on and off, putting the wipers on and beeping the horn until he agrees.

[TAWP]

More fun if you actually did that...since more then a few of them carry some 'weapon' of sorts in the taxi.

[chatette]

I haven't had a problem with drivers not wanting to use the meter for years. Problem I find is they refuse to go where I want to go, long or short distances. Depending on my mood, I either get out and leave the door open or settle in, get out the cell phone to call the complaint line while confirming their licence number - which is always nearby. I usually also mention that the policeman (there's usually one around somewhere) would be interested to hear they don't want to go. This has always worked, and I've never actually called the number as I lost it years ago (have added it to my cell phone thx to above). I have actually had physical fights with two taxi drivers, but both many years ago before they had meters. I actually bought a car after 4 yrs in Bangkok because of unpleasant taxi experiences. Now I live on the metro route, I no longer have to bother driving -- also unpleasant -- and can get around on a daily basis without taxis if I wish.

[Mr_Dave]

During my last stay in Bangkok I caught a cab on a Saturday night from the "meter-taxi" line at at the Conrad where I was staying.

Thanks to hastings for posting those details.

A lot to learn here, because hastings committed just about every "wrong" in the book.

We can learn from his mistakes.

I live in Bangkok.

Take taxis almost every day.

The first mistake was to get into a taxi waiting in front of the hotel, any hotel.

Those are all scammers.

In Bangkok, if you get into a waiting taxi you will get taken for an expensive ride.

No exceptions.

Waiting is defined as a taxi parked at the curb, with the driver nearby and seeking fares (not eating at a noodle cart).

Likely the driver will approach as you walk out of the hotel, asking where you are going and if you want a taxi.

Smarter to wave down a moving taxi.

That will give you 95%, or better, probability of getting a normal taxi ride at a normal fare.

I was going to meet friends in Nana which was a 40b cab ride. Once we took off through the parking lot, the cabbie turned around, turned off the meter, and told me that the ride would be 500b.

You have a problem.

The problem is NOT how to get the driver to use the meter.

He won't.

Your problem -- and it is YOUR problem -- is how to get far away from the problem as fast as you can.

Even if it costs you a little money.

I insisted on the meter, and stated that he should return me to the Conrad if he was not going to use it.

Second mistake, trying to negotiate with a scammer.

Impossible.

Whatever you can say, they've heard 50 times already this week, and the week before, and for the previous 13 years they've been on the taxi game.

Made the mistake worse by "insisting".

Insisting doesn't work in Thailand.

And it really doesn't work with taxi scammers.

Smarter to simply drop 40 baht on the back seat -- so he can see the money -- and get out.

You might still have a problem.

Why?

Because the scammer has now lost his place in the line of all the other scammers in front of that hotel.

He now goes to the end of the queue of waiting taxi scammers.

He won't be happy about that.

And he won't be happy in your direction.

However, before existing I told him that he should not pick up passengers at a line designated for metered taxis, and muttered that he was acting like an a**hole. His English skills had apparently improved because he took great offense to my use of that term. He jumped out of the taxi, swung open the passenger door,and grabbed me.

Well, of course, what did you expect?

That he would take you back to the hotel, and for free?

That's not how it works here.

Smarter to just drop 40 baht -- or even 100 baht -- on the back seat, and get out.

Better for your health.

I told him to let go and pushed his hands away. When I stood up outside the taxi, he pushed me. My response, of which I am not particularly proud, was to drop him with a punch to the jaw. He got up, swung at me again, and I dropped him again. At this point another cab stopped and the driver was watching. I started to walk away and the cab driver attacked me again, same result. The cab driver then went to his trunk and I ran.

Big mistake, hitting a Thai man.

Very big mistake.

You are very lucky that driver was either too old or too out-of-shape to drop YOU with a Muay Thai kick to your groin.

Every Thai boy learns some Muay Thai fighting, like we learn baseball or footie.

Some get very good at it.

Smarter if you had run away in the first place.

He won't leave his taxi to go after you.

Especially not if you dropped 100 baht on the back seat.

I later, contacted the police (at the insistence of my Thai girlfriend), but to my knowledge nothing ever happened (before getting into the taxi the doorman at the Conrad gives the passenger a paper with the cab number written on it).

Did you know that those waiting taxi drivers pay the police every month, for the privilege of working their scam?

I have a friend who used to be a taxi driver in Bangkok many years ago (no longer).

He said the going bribe for a waiting taxi in front of a big hotel is 1,000 baht per month, per car.

Will the police help you?

I doubt it.

Smarter to just leave.

Even smarter than that, to do homework on taxis before arriving in Bangkok.

I'm writing this for the benefit of others who are doing their homework.

I am just lucky that the driver did not use a weapon (who knows what was in the trunk), the other cab driver only watched, and the police did not try to arrest me based on my report.

Very lucky on all counts.

If that situation had happened within sight of the Conrad, the other drivers would have run to join in the fight.

And instead of going to Nana, you would have gone to Bumrungrad Hospital.

Lessons learned:

1. Never, ever, get into any taxi waiting in front of a hotel in Bangkok. Instead, wave down a moving taxi who is driving past.

2. Always speak softly, politely, even if you are in the right and the taxi driver is in the wrong.

3. Never, ever, hit a Thai.

4. Always carry small change in your shirt pocket where you can get to it quickly: 20s, 50s, and 100 baht notes. Don't depend on the driver being able or willing to make change.

5. Don't bother with the police. In Bangkok, the police are not your friends.

Hastings was very, very, lucky.

I hope other readers can depend on knowledge, instead of luck, when dealing with Bangkok taxis.

.

Edited February 22, 2007 by Mr_Dave

[Mr_Dave]

I haven't had a problem with drivers not wanting to use the meter for years. Problem I find is they refuse to go where I want to go, long or short distances. ...[snip]... I actually bought a car after 4 yrs in Bangkok because of unpleasant taxi experiences.

There is a hint of useful information in that post form chatette.

Chatette has obviously been in Bangkok for some years.

Yet, still, some taxi drivers refuse to go where he wants to go.

Why?

I say it is because he knows too much.

Chatette probably looks, moves, and talks like a man who knows his way around Bangkok.

Taxi drivers who are out for the quick scam will immediately see they have little chance of success with him.

So they refuse the fare and go prowling for better game.

When I first arrived in Bangkok some years ago, I never was refused by a taxi driver.

But now that I am more confident here, know exactly where I want to go, and can speak to the driver in clear Thai, I, too, sometimes get refused even short distances.

Especially at night near the tourist hotels.

Smart taxi drivers don't want 40 baht from me, when the next man hailing his taxi is more likely to be a novice who probably offers a far larger target of opportunity.

No problem for us.

Simply wait for the next taxi.

In the tourist areas -- where the problem occurs most often -- there is always another taxi coming along, usually already in sight.

.

Edited February 22, 2007 by Mr_Dave

[dantilley]

I say it is because he knows too much.

Chatette probably looks, moves, and talks like a man who knows his way around Bangkok.

Taxi drivers who are out for the quick scam will immediately see they have little chance of success with him.

So they refuse the fare and go prowling for better game.

Not true at all. Many times I have hailed taxis miles from any tourists or "better game" and been refused the journey. It's not because they are out looking for someone to rip off, but maybe they know there's a lot of heavy traffic between where you are now and your destination, or it's too far and their shift finishes soon.

The taxi drivers who are out for a quick scam are very, very much in the minority. Some are unpleasant or difficult occasionally, but the outright scammers are few and far between.

[Furbie]

The first mistake was to get into a taxi waiting in front of the hotel, any hotel.

Those are all scammers.

In Bangkok, if you get into a waiting taxi you will get taken for an expensive ride.

No exceptions.

Waiting is defined as a taxi parked at the curb, with the driver nearby and seeking fares (not eating at a noodle cart).

Likely the driver will approach as you walk out of the hotel, asking where you are going and if you want a taxi.

____________________________

Taxis in front of the five star hotels are fine – and if you are a tourist are probably a better option, as the staff will tell them your destination. Many also write down the taxi license plate in case there is a problem.

I go to about two meetings a week at 5 star hotels and have never had a problem – this includes the Conrad once or twice a month. Even back when coming as a tourist I never had a problem with the taxi taken from in front of a 5 star hotel. Could it happen? Of course, but it is more unusual in my experience.

If you mean the taxis hanging around hotels saying you need taxi mister – then yes, run like hel_l.

[Mr_Dave]

Not true at all. Many times I have hailed taxis miles from any tourists or "better game" and been refused the journey. It's not because they are out looking for someone to rip off, but maybe they know there's a lot of heavy traffic between where you are now and your destination, or it's too far and their shift finishes soon.

Dantilley shifted context -- from tourist areas to outlying areas -- and added in other factors like traffic and shift change.

Yes, some taxi drivers certainly are looking for ways to scam.

In the tourist areas, I have been refused multiple times, so it must be happening to other expats, and frequent visitors who "know too much", such as chatette explained in his post above.

Here's one example to illustrate the situation:

Several taxis in a row, driving along the soi, refused my short ride of only 2 KM.

An ordinary, weekday, evening -- not a weekend, not raining, not near shift change time.

Finally, the third or fourth taxi took me, but he was laughing.

He saw the other taxis ahead of his, as I opened each door, gave my destination, got a negative, then closed the door and waved down the taxi following.

So I asked that driver to explain.

He laughed again and, in Thai, said, "You speak Thai very good. Other driver want take you massage, take you restaurant, take you buy gem, but you know too much. He cannot. You give only 40 baht. Not good. But I take you, okay, can."

We both laughed because it is clearly true.

This has happened to me several times.

And, I haven't changed my clothing, my haircut, or my wristwatch.

The only thing that has changed is the fluency of my Thai language, my knowledge of the city, and my apparent confidence in talking to taxi drivers.

The taxi drivers who are out for a quick scam are very, very much in the minority. Some are unpleasant or difficult occasionally, but the outright scammers are few and far between.

I can easily show you areas in Bangkok with 3-5 taxi scammers waiting in front of every medium or better hotel.

I'll call that "many and close together".

I've seen the same taxi scammers waiting in front of the same hotels every day, for years!

They stand near the entrance, or across the street, waiting for hours and hours for just one fare.

I promise you they aren't going to start their engine for any 40 baht ride.

Not even for a 200 baht ride.

They've been waiting for a long time, so they have to get a big fare each time.

And, remember, they have big bribes to pay, too.

Of course, I haven't counted, but I'll estimate upwards of 500 taxi scammers around Bangkok, concentrated at the tourist hotels.

I base that estimate on 100 hotels in the 3-4-5 star category and 5 taxis waiting at each hotel.

That's hardly "few and far between".

Of course, they don't wait in front of cheap guest houses or on Kaosan Road -- no juicy targets there.

.

Edited February 23, 2007 by Mr_Dave

[Mr_Dave]

If you mean the taxis hanging around hotels saying you need taxi mister – then yes, run like hel_l.

Right, Furbie, that is what I meant, but, thank you for repeating it, because those are the taxis that, invariably, cause problems for unwitting passengers.

Happened to me in front of the Shangri-La, and in front of the Royal Orchid Sheraton.

Five star or not?

You can decide.

As for taxis that drive up to the hotel entrance where the doorman, in his fancy uniform, opens the door as I get in, that's never been a problem.

Not yet.

Those taxis always put on the meter before they leave the hotel driveway.

And I always tip the doorman.

But many visitors and expats aren't using 5-star hotels with doormen who write down the license numbers.

Those folks depend on taxis on the street.

And that's where the problems start: meter or no meter, and overcharging scams.

Edited February 23, 2007 by Mr_Dave

[Sophon]

Not true at all. Many times I have hailed taxis miles from any tourists or "better game" and been refused the journey. It's not because they are out looking for someone to rip off, but maybe they know there's a lot of heavy traffic between where you are now and your destination, or it's too far and their shift finishes soon.

Dantilley shifted context -- from tourist areas to outlying areas -- and added in other factors like traffic and shift change.

Yes, some taxi drivers certainly are looking for ways to scam.

In the tourist areas, I have been refused multiple times, so it must be happening to other expats, and frequent visitors who "know too much", such as chatette explained in his post above.

Dantilley just pointed out that taxi drivers all over Bangkok frequently refuse to take a fare, not because they are out to scam you and are looking for an easy mark, but because they don't know the destination or some of the other reasons mentioned. In my experience from "Thai only" areas (well almost) of Bangkok, it seems to happen more often to Thais than to me personally.

I don't think anybody here are denying that there are taxi drivers trying to scam people, but jumping to the conclusion that every taxi driver refusing a fare is a scammer is in my opinion very misleading. I agree with Dantilley that generally people are being refused for a myriad of other reasons.

The taxi drivers who are out for a quick scam are very, very much in the minority. Some are unpleasant or difficult occasionally, but the outright scammers are few and far between.

I can easily show you areas in Bangkok with 3-5 taxi scammers waiting in front of every medium or better hotel.

I'll call that "many and close together".

I've seen the same taxi scammers waiting in front of the same hotels every day, for years!

They stand near the entrance, or across the street, waiting for hours and hours for just one fare.

I promise you they aren't going to start their engine for any 40 baht ride.

Not even for a 200 baht ride.

They've been waiting for a long time, so they have to get a big fare each time.

And, remember, they have big bribes to pay, too.

Of course, I haven't counted, but I'll estimate upwards of 500 taxi scammers around Bangkok, concentrated at the tourist hotels.

I base that estimate on 100 hotels in the 3-4-5 star category and 5 taxis waiting at each hotel.

That's hardly "few and far between".

Even if your estimate is correct, then it's still a very small minority compared to the tens of thousands of taxi's travelling the streets of Bangkok. And as you correctly pointed out, these taxi's are generally parked at very specific targets, and consequently very easily avoided. The advice repeated again and again to flag down a moving taxi will almost guarantee that you don't run into any of these people.

Sophon

[IMA_FARANG]

I don't spend much time in Bangkok, but over the last 4 days I've been using taxis a lot, and found that often it's not easy to find a taxi that is willing to use the meter...usually during peak hours, but not always.

It took quite a while in the taxi rank outside MBK at around 9pm to find a taxi that would use its meter. I was being quoted 200 bht for a 70 baht ride.

Another time I found it impossible to find a taxi willing to use the meter from Khao San Road to China Town (Yaowarat Rd)...they were asking 200 plus, and another day I had difficulty from Yaowarat Rd back to MBK...and eventually negotiated a fare of 130 bht.

Mostly I did succeed, but often impatience got the better of me, and I negotiated a price.

Are there some 'tricks-of-the-trade' that I should learn regarding the use of Bangkok taxis, or is my experience the norm?

1. Pass up the cab that's waiting in the cab rank/queue/etc. Walk down the street a short distance and flag down an unoccupied meter taxi, that cab is more likely to be willing to use the meter.

2. The meter fares are low, the driver may feel that he isn't making a decent fare if you pay the exact meter rate. So if you have a 135 baht fare, slip the cabbie 150 baht and tell him to keep the change. It isn't much, but makes him feel like he got a little extra. Face it, whats 15 baht to you?

3 If you know where your going, be prepared to get off on the opposite side of the street, and cross over using the foot bridges. This is especially true on Sukhumvit Road and other one-way streets. If you insist on having the cabbie drive 4 or 5 blocks so he can drop you off on the side of the street you want, he won't be happy.

4. In times of heavy slow-moving traffic, be prepared to tip him off the meter fare for the time he waits for traffic to move.

5. The final tip, if you're in Bangkok enough, learn the air-conditioned bus routes, where they stop, and use them.

[hastings]

If you mean the taxis hanging around hotels saying you need taxi mister – then yes, run like hel_l.

Right, Furbie, that is what I meant, but, thank you for repeating it, because those are the taxis that, invariably, cause problems for unwitting passengers.

Happened to me in front of the Sangria-La, and in front of the Royal Orchid Sheraton.

Five star or not?

You can decide.

As for taxis that drive up to the hotel entrance where the doorman, in his fancy uniform, opens the door as I get in, that's never been a problem.

Not yet.

Those taxis always put on the meter before they leave the hotel driveway.

And I always tip the doorman.

But many visitors and expats aren't using 5-star hotels with doormen who write down the license numbers.

Those folks depend on taxis on the street.

And that's where the problems start: meter or no meter, and overcharging scams.

I appreciate your critique, however I am not a novice (having traveled to Thailand on business over 15 times and lived there for the equivalent of three years). Did I make mistakes... of course I did as acknowledged in my post.

That said, the problem was with a driver that pulled up to the "hotel entrance where the doorman, in his fancy uniform, opens the door as I get in." Similar to yourself, I have never before had a problem when leaving a 5-star hotel. Like yourself I always tip the doorman, and always have the doorman explain my destination and write down the number of the cab. At the Conrad, the taxi touts (i.e., "where are you going?, I take you there" ) are not allowed anywhere near the entrance. As a matter of course, I never take one of the touts. This driver did drop the flag (turn on the meter before we left) as it is required of cabs servicing the Conrad which attempts to look after its guests. Only after we were away some distance did the cabbie turn off the meter in his attempt to extort me. To be clear, there was nothing that I could have done better initially in catching the cab to avoid the problem.

My only issue, is how I handled the problem after the fact. On one point, I disagree with you. It is appropriate to insist that you be taken to your destination and that the meter be utilized, once the cab driver has taken you away from the pick up spot. If he decides not to do so, then insist on being returned, and if not insist on being let out. I also disagree with the suggestion, that under these circumstances payment should be made. Never pay a cab driver that kicks you out of his cab as this rewards the bad behavior. Moreover, he is not expecting payment in this situation.

As for never hitting a Thai, on this point I agree (in fact, I would argue that you should never hit anyone in anger if it can be avoided). On the other hand, if assaulted defend yourself until you can get away otherwise you will take a beating. Here, the cabbie had already assaulted me (twice, grabbing and then pushing me) and I felt that his punch was coming next. I will not get into the merits of the claim that all Thais are trained in Muay Thai (they might want to be although I have seen no real evidence of that), but I am also trained as a boxer having fought golden gloves when I was younger (btw I am 45 and the cab driver was about 25, and at best only 10 to 15 pounds smaller than me, rather than the old infirmed Thai you reference). But even if the cabbie was trained and you are not, if assaulted defend yourself (maybe you will get in a lucky punch that will make him think twice). Most bullys do not like getting hit back.

My original point, and it was my only point, is that sometimes catching a cab is not "hassle free" as another forum member had argued. This was an unusual situation, and as stated in my original posting the first problem I have had in Thailand with a cab driver or otherwise.

Edited February 24, 2007 by hastings

[dantilley]

Not true at all. Many times I have hailed taxis miles from any tourists or "better game" and been refused the journey. It's not because they are out looking for someone to rip off, but maybe they know there's a lot of heavy traffic between where you are now and your destination, or it's too far and their shift finishes soon.

Dantilley shifted context -- from tourist areas to outlying areas -- and added in other factors like traffic and shift change.

Yes, some taxi drivers certainly are looking for ways to scam.

In the tourist areas, I have been refused multiple times, so it must be happening to other expats, and frequent visitors who "know too much", such as chatette explained in his post above.

But it's not shifted context though as earlier you were saying that every that every taxi who refuses a journey is a scammer and I was pointing out that most of the time that isn't the reason. Like when you said:

In Bangkok, if you get into a waiting taxi you will get taken for an expensive ride.

No exceptions.

Which is also untrue as I do this all the time and get charged the normal metered rate. So do most other people I know.

I can easily show you areas in Bangkok with 3-5 taxi scammers waiting in front of every medium or better hotel.

I'll call that "many and close together".

Well, I'd be very interested to see these areas, as whenever I go past the many 3 - 5 star hotels that I do most days I never see this. I guess there must be a whole load of high-end hotels in Bangkok I don't know about then...

Of course, I haven't counted, but I'll estimate upwards of 500 taxi scammers around Bangkok, concentrated at the tourist hotels.

I base that estimate on 100 hotels in the 3-4-5 star category and 5 taxis waiting at each hotel.

That's hardly "few and far between".

Even if there were 500 "taxi scammers" in Bangkok, which there probably aren't as there's absolutely no way that 100 3 - 5 star hotels have 5 taxis each waiting outside them, that is still a tiny proportion of the entire number of taxis working in Bangkok. So, yes, definitely few and far between.

[dantilley]

My only issue, is how I handled the problem after the fact. On one point, I disagree with you. It is appropriate to insist that you be taken to your destination and that the meter be utilized, once the cab driver has taken you away from the pick up spot. If he decides not to do so, then insist on being returned, and if not insist on being let out. I also disagree with the suggestion, that under these circumstances payment should be made. Never pay a cab driver that kicks you out of his cab as this rewards the bad behavior. Moreover, he is not expecting payment in this situation.

Good post all round hastings. And I'm glad you picked up on that point about Mr Dave suggesting that it's a good idea to leave 100 Baht on the back seat of the cab when the driver has turned out to be a pain in the ar5e. People really should not be encouraged to do this.

[Oneman]

And I'm glad you picked up on that point about Mr Dave suggesting that it's a good idea to leave 100 Baht on the back seat of the cab when the driver has turned out to be a pain in the ar5e. People really should not be encouraged to do this.

I wish to present a contrary observation about this. There are plenty of problems waiting for us farangs when we come to Thailand for holiday or long-stay. Over the years that I have been living here, I have learned again and again that the easiest way to solve small problems is by offering a bit of money. The taxi meter situation is a small problem than can be easily solved if one is simply willing to leave a bit of money and then change over to a different taxi.

When I have friends visiting Thailand I always advise them to try to solve small problems before they become big problems. In Thailand, the surest and easiest way to solve small problems is with money. Taxi scams and rip offs start out as small problems, but they can quickly escalate into big problems with maybe a fist fight (as was vividly described earlier in this thread), or maybe the police arriving on the scene. So I do encourage my visiting friends to "pay their way out", if at all possible, especially for such an insignificant problem as a taxi meter scam.

So far, sure, some small problems here and there, especially with the Bangkok taxis, but, so far, not any big problems. Thanks be to a few green and red currency notes offered when appropriate.

Edited February 25, 2007 by Oneman

[Oneman]

1. Never, ever, get into any taxi waiting in front of a hotel in Bangkok. Instead, wave down a moving taxi who is driving past.

2. Always speak softly, politely, even if you are in the right and the taxi driver is in the wrong.

3. Never, ever, hit a Thai.

4. Always carry small change in your shirt pocket where you can get to it quickly: 20s, 50s, and 100 baht notes. Don't depend on the driver being able or willing to make change.

5. Don't bother with the police. In Bangkok, the police are not your friends

1. Pass up the cab that's waiting in the cab rank/queue/etc. Walk down the street a short distance and flag down an unoccupied meter taxi, that cab is more likely to be willing to use the meter.

2. The meter fares are low, the driver may feel that he isn't making a decent fare if you pay the exact meter rate. So if you have a 135 baht fare, slip the cabbie 150 baht and tell him to keep the change. It isn't much, but makes him feel like he got a little extra. Face it, whats 15 baht to you?

3 If you know where your going, be prepared to get off on the opposite side of the street, and cross over using the foot bridges. This is especially true on Sukhumvit Road and other one-way streets. If you insist on having the cabbie drive 4 or 5 blocks so he can drop you off on the side of the street you want, he won't be happy.

4. In times of heavy slow-moving traffic, be prepared to tip him off the meter fare for the time he waits for traffic to move.

5. The final tip, if you're in Bangkok enough, learn the air-conditioned bus routes, where they stop, and use them.

There you have it: The Ten Commandments for surviving taxi meter problems in Bangkok. Thank you to both Mr_Dave and to IMA_FARANG for exellent advice that is especially useful for new visitors who aren't familiar with the many pitfalls of Bangkok taxis.

[sutnyod]

just a quick question regarding taxi's

Is it best to sit in the front or back seat? I'll be travelling with my sister and we are 22 and 23 (if age makes a difference). Im thinking it might be safer in the back?

If you speak good Thai --> front seat. ONLY front seat. The driver will chat you up and will want to look in awe at a falang speaking flawless Thai. Dangerous if you are in the back.

If you don't speak Thai (or don't feel like chatting) --> back seat.

Edited February 25, 2007 by sutnyod

[dantilley]

And I'm glad you picked up on that point about Mr Dave suggesting that it's a good idea to leave 100 Baht on the back seat of the cab when the driver has turned out to be a pain in the ar5e. People really should not be encouraged to do this.

I wish to present a contrary observation about this. There are plenty of problems waiting for us farangs when we come to Thailand for holiday or long-stay. Over the years that I have been living here, I have learned again and again that the easiest way to solve small problems is by offering a bit of money. The taxi meter situation is a small problem than can be easily solved if one is simply willing to leave a bit of money and then change over to a different taxi.

When I have friends visiting Thailand I always advise them to try to solve small problems before they become big problems. In Thailand, the surest and easiest way to solve small problems is with money. Taxi scams and rip offs start out as small problems, but they can quickly escalate into big problems with maybe a fist fight (as was vividly described earlier in this thread), or maybe the police arriving on the scene. So I do encourage my visiting friends to "pay their way out", if at all possible, especially for such an insignificant problem as a taxi meter scam.

So far, sure, some small problems here and there, especially with the Bangkok taxis, but, so far, not any big problems. Thanks be to a few green and red currency notes offered when appropriate.

Thanks for providing an alternative perspective. However, I still don't agree on this leaving money thing.

I guess it depends on exactly what the "taxi meter situation" is that you're suggesting needs to be solved by giving the driver money. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that you're on a reasonably busy road and you get in a cab. It turns out he has an ulterior motive and refuses to turn on the meter. Simple, you just get out and wait 10 seconds and get into the next cab. What possible reason could there be for giving the guy money in a situation like this?

It may be different if the things turn nasty and you face the prospect of a possible altercation with a guy on a remote suburban Bangkok street at 4am. But this would only happen if things make an unexpected turn for the worse and you're already mid-journey, which is highly unlikely.

But for the most common problems people face with meter taxis, i.e. refusal to turn on the meter and refused destinations, there's no reason to leave the driver any money whatsoever. And you'd be crazy to advise people that this is a sensible thing to do.

[Oneman]

I am not a novice (having traveled to Thailand on business over 15 times and lived there for the equivalent of three years).

It is appropriate to insist that you be taken to your destination and that the meter be utilized, once the cab driver has taken you away from the pick up spot. If he decides not to do so, then insist on being returned, and if not insist on being let out.

I'm sure that Hastings has far more experience with Thai ways than I may ever have. So I'm quite willing to read carefully and think about what he writes. Yet it seems strange to me that Hasting's behavior (as he himself described) and his comments (as quoted above) seem so far out of line with everything I have observed and learned about Thai culture.

In a previous post, Hastings described punching a Thai three times. Yes, Hastings admitted he is not proud of doing that, but still, by his own admission he did that, and that causes me to have serious doubts about his understanding of Thai culture after 15 visits and three years of stay here.

In that quote above, Hastings says, "insist ... insist ... and if not insist". I wish I would watch Hastings in operation -- from a distance, of course -- because from everything I have observed about Thailand, insisting usually gets the opposite result from that which is insisted upon. That's the Thai way. Most long-stay expats here know that and behave accordingly with the Thais. And, I must add, especially with the Thai taxi drivers. And those Thai taxi drivers who are operating meter scams are especially volitile and are best handled very carefully. I very much doubt that insisting is the way to get where you want to go with them. But then, again, I have not yet had the opportunity to observe Hastings in action. Perhaps it is I who still have much to learn about dealing with the Thais.

My purpose in writing this is not to castigate Mr. Hastings. I'm sure he means well and I, for one, appreciate the vivid detail he puts into his writing, which is very helpful for clearly understanding the situation. Instead, my purpose is for the benefit of those readers who have little or no experience with Bangkok taxis. In my years here, I have observed that insisting on anything with Thai people simply doesn't work. I draw some support for this view from Rudyard Kipling. I'll copy-paste from one of his works below. It may provide useful advice for other readers of this thread who are seeking useful information about dealing with Thai behavior in general, and Thai taxi drivers in particular.

"The Naulahka"

Rudyard Kipling (1865-1936)

(excerpt)

Now it is not good for the Christian's health to hustle the Aryan brown.

For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,

And the epitaph drear: "A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East."

Edited February 25, 2007 by Oneman

[Oneman]

But for the most common problems people face with meter taxis, i.e. refusal to turn on the meter and refused destinations, there's no reason to leave the driver any money whatsoever. And you'd be crazy to advise people that this is a sensible thing to do.

I hope other readers understand I'm not taking my time writing here this afternoon, in order to convince Dantilley. And if he merely asserts that something is "crazy", that does not make it crazy. However, I do gather from Dantilley's writing on this thread that he would engage in a test of wills with a taxi driver rather than part with 40 or 100 baht. That is quite the opposite of my advice to friends coming to visit Bangkok.

Avoiding conflict (whilst saving face for the other party) is an important survival skill for foreigners in Thailand. Offering money is one easy way for any foreigners to avoid conflicts with Bangkok taxi drivers who refuse to turn on the meter. They want money, so just give them a little and get away from them.

Perhaps Dantilley has discovered some other ways to avoid conflict with Thai taxi drivers, of which I am unaware. In a spirit of working together to understand as much as we can about Thailand, I hope he will share those discoveries on this thread. However, just writing that something is "crazy" doesn't help with that.

[hastings]

I am not a novice (having traveled to Thailand on business over 15 times and lived there for the equivalent of three years).

It is appropriate to insist that you be taken to your destination and that the meter be utilized, once the cab driver has taken you away from the pick up spot. If he decides not to do so, then insist on being returned, and if not insist on being let out.

I'm sure that hastings has far more experience with Thai ways than I may ever have. So I'm quite willing to read carefully and think about what he writes. Yet it seems strange to me that hasting's behavior (as he himself described) and his comments (as quoted above) seem so far out of line with everything I have observed and learned about Thai culture.

In a previous post, hastings described punching a Thai three times. Yes, hastings is not proud of doing that, but still, by his own admission he did that, and that causes me to have serious doubts about his understanding of Thai culture after 15 visits and three years of stay here.

In that quote above, hastings says, "insist ... insist ... and if not insist". I wish I would watch hastings in operation -- from a distance, of course -- because from everything I have observed about Thailand, insisting usually gets the opposite result from that which is insisted upon. That's the Thai way. Most long-stay expats here know that and behave accordingly with the Thais. And, I must add, especially with the Thai taxi drivers. And those Thai taxi drivers who are operating meter scame are especially volitile and are best handled very carefully. I very much doubt that insisting is the way to get where you want to go with them. But then, again, I have not yet had the opportunity to observe hastings in action. Perhaps it is I who still have much to learn about dealing with the Thais.

My purpose in writing this is not to castigate Mr. Hastings. I'm sure he means well and I, for one, appreciate the vivid detail he puts into his writing, which is very helpful for clearly understanding the situation. Instead, my purpose is for the benefit of those readers who have little or no experience with Bangkok taxis. In my years here, I have observed that insisting on anything with Thai people simply doesn't work. I draw some support for this view from Rudyard Kipling. I'll copy-paste from one of his works below. It may provide useful advice for other readers of this thread who are seeking useful information about dealing with Thai behavior in general, and Thai taxi drivers in particular.

"The Naulahka"

Rudyard Kipling (1865-1936)

(excerpt)

Now it is not good for the Christian's health to hustle the Aryan brown.

For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,

And the epitaph drear: "A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East."

I think you misread or misunderstood my post. This had nothing to do with Thai Culture or dealing with Thais. My cab driver was a thug, plain and simple. He could just as easily been a cabbie in New York or London. Acting as a thug is not characteristically Thai (and as such not an issue of Thai Culture). It was thug culture.

Nor was it about understanding Thais. Rather, it was about self defense. The physical altercation started with the Thai cabbie grabbing me, it escalated when I was exiting the cab and he pushed me. The punch on my part was to defend myself as his punch thereafter was certainly coming. My other two punches resulted from him attacking me again. I ask Mr. Oneman, once the cabbie started getting physical, would he simply have taken the beating? If his answer is yes, then he does indeed have something to learn (although I am not certain that it will be a lesson in life to be given solely by Thais). When I stated that I was not particularly proud of the situation, it was a reflection of the fact that I had cursed and that there was physical violence not that it was improper violence on my part (although, again, if you are being assaulted defend yourself). While I am generally a pacifist, the violence I doled out was appropriate and measured (and as originally stated prelude to me running away when it was safe to do so).

As for the comments based on the paraphrased quote "insist, insist and if not insist," you failed to understand my point. The reason you insist is to get the cabbie to take you to your destination, if he will not then insist on being returned, if he will not insist on being let out of the cab. His job is to drive you for a proper fare. The insistence is to let the cabbie know that you are serious and not simply a tourist to be pushed around (the cabbie knows that the law is on your side as he is not supposed to refuse your carriage which brings up the issue of whether he will follow the law). Thus, the three distinct requests I advocate each of which is less favorable than the former. BTW, insisting is being firm (not yelling or threatening since there is a difference).

As for advice to new travelers to Bangkok, telling them to get out of a cab under these circumstances is not very sound. Once the cabbie has driven you from your starting point, being let out of the cab becomes far more dangerous than being taken to your destination or returned to the place of embarkation. Few foreigners, my self included, are familiar enough with Bangkok or fluent enough in Thai to be dropped off in an unfamiliar spot without risk. This is true whether you are miles or blocks from where you were supposed to be taken. Certainly, I feel safer in familiar surroundings, and it is worth the risk to ask.

Finally,while I am generally an admirer of Mr. Kipling's writings (they are after all classics in some sense) they were written from the perspective of an Englishman during England's colonial period. The concept of English superiority (read white) and views of "brown" people espoused during that time period were likely inapplicable then, and certainly suspect now. As I recall (and as evidenced by the quote), Mr. Kipling espoused the popular view of Asians during that period that while Asians generally have an apparent lack of backbone they are smiling assassins waiting for the chance to strike. Insulting to say the least. Having dealt with Thai people of most social classes in a variety of jobs, it has been my experience that they are knowledgeable of their job's requirements but are often unwilling to perform as required without prompting (often choosing to take shortcuts). As long as you are not insisting that they do more than that which is actually required, insisting on performance of their job generally works well. In this case insisting was entirely appropriate. I cannot comment on the actual experiences that have led you to promote such basic stereotypes about Thai people (i.e., that insisting never works as a Thai will do the opposite). Perhaps, you were hanging out with Mr. Dave when he learned that all Thais are trained in Muay Thai fighting.

Edited February 25, 2007 by hastings