Foreign owned business closings ... worse than ever?

[NanLaew]

Maybe the "social maturing" claim hasn't been specifically laid in this rather sad, perpetually inward looking thread

In which thread then? Looking forward to a laugh. Or did you just make that up out of the temptation to assert above-the-fray "global" vision over all the sad, perpetually inward looking antagonists here? Fun, innit?

. . . when has the very real and very visible changes in the overall Pattaya demographic not been a part of "changing"?

Well, duh. On some points, now, I do agree with TVF gospel. It holds, quite rightly, that the demographic stayed pretty stable for decades. There were even parking spaces in that Golden Era. Then most of us sad, perpetually inward looking antagonists here happened to notice an extraordinary and uncomfortably rapid influx of Russians, Chinese, Indians, and Bangkok Thais. We then found ourselves in traffic jams every weekend, esp. holiday weekends. Where for decades we sat, drank, and enjoyed watching mobs of Western tourists and mongers w/ hot Thai women parade on Walking Street, now we see continual processions of Chinese following flags.

And the reasons & consequences of THAT change have been subjected to countless analyses, which you may read at your leisure, now that you know the subtle point that not all changes are created equally.

So there's no tangible linkage between Pattaya's commercial 'churn', both foreign invested and home-grown, and the broader, global indications of overall negative growth?

Oh well, when has [sic] the very real and very visible changes in the overall Pattaya business environment not been a part of commercial churn? Pre-Central, mostly. But before that there was Tukcom, taking over that failed Day Night white elephant to cause frightful churn in the cheap T-shirt and trinket market. Was it merely a developer seeing an underserved market, and a market partly to be created, for IT-related stuff here? Or--was it something more darkly sinister, something clearly unsustainable: there was already a Tukcom in nearby Sriricha.

Tangible linkage? I dunno, but you see I know I dunno.

Obviously many of our ace TVF economists, with their brilliant records of previous forecasting (bless 'em), do wish to think so. We've never suffered any lack of negative indicators and DANGER, WILL ROBINSONs here, eh? And in the Pattaya Mail before that. And we've weathered financial crises before. Yeah I know: the coming apocalypse will be, like every low season, THE WORST EVER. Could be.

Problem lies in tendentious reasoning not based on any real financial numbers that prove the tangible linkage. All we got here is eyeballs seeing some podunk sell-by shops closing but never any opening up.

2010: Why Is Everything Closing Down?

But when our attention is called to those opening up, we gotta claim they're absolutely, definitely, certainly going to close--because we say so, from our astute reading of the "global" tea leaves. Or if we can't find any tea lives, then we invoke the TV Forum Poster Rule Of One: we already have one so the new one will fail cause we (I) don't need another one. Or we say there's not enough money here to support the new thing. Central would fail (if it didn't fall down first) because nobody could afford to shop there. Whatever.

Nor can any new shop EVER close and its space be taken by some other shop. If so, it's a sign; the prophecies are being fulfilled . . . .

All this desperation! Good laugh, though.

Given that lack of financial numbers proving causation, then one can just as well reason from local business factors without resorting to the totally awesome "broader, global indicators" to bolster one's TVF street cred. Now to me, to take one obvious example, the success of Central does seem tangibly linked to Chinese and Korean tourists (as stated in CPN's quarterly report last year, with the figures) and Bangkok Thais (whom ace TVF economists refuse to recognize as tourists--and Harbor will fail because Bangkok Thais can only shop in one place). And no--to anticipate TVF reasoning--nobody here knows how deep the Chinese slowdown will be, how long it will last, or whether it will make much of a difference at all in the number of Chinese tourists coming here. Read recently somewhere about the Russian numbers picking up again . . . .

So yeah I think I'll just stay calm for now and wait & see rather than emit orthodox Chicken Little squawks to play to the mob. Just have to suffer those terribly distressing claims by yer average TVF knee-jerk that I must be a real estate agent (our worst villain!) and wear rose-tinted glasses (which never gets old and is never shallow).

Funny, I totally agreed w/ Berty100 above that businesses were closing on Pattaya Nua but the reasons for their closing are obvious based on purely local business conditions. Surprising thing is that they hung on long as they did. But it seems there were two problems: first, I wasn't scared; second, I didn't go all global about it.

I think the rule now is that every time some podunk mobile phone shop in Pattaya like, closes, then we gotta invoke the Financial Times, The Economist, and Bloomberg. Otherwise--well, you know . . . .

ver·bose

vərˈbōs/

adjective

adjective: verbose

1. using or expressed in more words than are needed.

"much academic language is obscure and verbose"

synonyms:

wordy, loquacious, garrulous, talkative, voluble;

antonyms:

succinct, laconic

[talahtnut]

The government of today dont want westerners making money here, I wish western governments would reciprocate the juntas approach to Thais in western countries and that goes for land ownership and residency.

Good thinking. The west is quite mad..In the uk foreigners buying properties have pushed up prices to such an extent that UK citizens can not afford.

You have to admit that the Thais have the right idea. Personally, I would like to give England to the Thai goverment..or swap Cameron for Gen. Chan o Cha.

[Think of the easier visas]

[Bender]

Maybe the "social maturing" claim hasn't been specifically laid in this rather sad, perpetually inward looking thread

In which thread then? Looking forward to a laugh. Or did you just make that up out of the temptation to assert above-the-fray "global" vision over all the sad, perpetually inward looking antagonists here? Fun, innit?

. . . when has the very real and very visible changes in the overall Pattaya demographic not been a part of "changing"?

Well, duh. On some points, now, I do agree with TVF gospel. It holds, quite rightly, that the demographic stayed pretty stable for decades. There were even parking spaces in that Golden Era. Then most of us sad, perpetually inward looking antagonists here happened to notice an extraordinary and uncomfortably rapid influx of Russians, Chinese, Indians, and Bangkok Thais. We then found ourselves in traffic jams every weekend, esp. holiday weekends. Where for decades we sat, drank, and enjoyed watching mobs of Western tourists and mongers w/ hot Thai women parade on Walking Street, now we see continual processions of Chinese following flags.

And the reasons & consequences of THAT change have been subjected to countless analyses, which you may read at your leisure, now that you know the subtle point that not all changes are created equally.

So there's no tangible linkage between Pattaya's commercial 'churn', both foreign invested and home-grown, and the broader, global indications of overall negative growth?

Oh well, when has [sic] the very real and very visible changes in the overall Pattaya business environment not been a part of commercial churn? Pre-Central, mostly. But before that there was Tukcom, taking over that failed Day Night white elephant to cause frightful churn in the cheap T-shirt and trinket market. Was it merely a developer seeing an underserved market, and a market partly to be created, for IT-related stuff here? Or--was it something more darkly sinister, something clearly unsustainable: there was already a Tukcom in nearby Sriricha.

Tangible linkage? I dunno, but you see I know I dunno.

Obviously many of our ace TVF economists, with their brilliant records of previous forecasting (bless 'em), do wish to think so. We've never suffered any lack of negative indicators and DANGER, WILL ROBINSONs here, eh? And in the Pattaya Mail before that. And we've weathered financial crises before. Yeah I know: the coming apocalypse will be, like every low season, THE WORST EVER. Could be.

Problem lies in tendentious reasoning not based on any real financial numbers that prove the tangible linkage. All we got here is eyeballs seeing some podunk sell-by shops closing but never any opening up.

2010: Why Is Everything Closing Down?

But when our attention is called to those opening up, we gotta claim they're absolutely, definitely, certainly going to close--because we say so, from our astute reading of the "global" tea leaves. Or if we can't find any tea lives, then we invoke the TV Forum Poster Rule Of One: we already have one so the new one will fail cause we (I) don't need another one. Or we say there's not enough money here to support the new thing. Central would fail (if it didn't fall down first) because nobody could afford to shop there. Whatever.

Nor can any new shop EVER close and its space be taken by some other shop. If so, it's a sign; the prophecies are being fulfilled . . . .

All this desperation! Good laugh, though.

Given that lack of financial numbers proving causation, then one can just as well reason from local business factors without resorting to the totally awesome "broader, global indicators" to bolster one's TVF street cred. Now to me, to take one obvious example, the success of Central does seem tangibly linked to Chinese and Korean tourists (as stated in CPN's quarterly report last year, with the figures) and Bangkok Thais (whom ace TVF economists refuse to recognize as tourists--and Harbor will fail because Bangkok Thais can only shop in one place). And no--to anticipate TVF reasoning--nobody here knows how deep the Chinese slowdown will be, how long it will last, or whether it will make much of a difference at all in the number of Chinese tourists coming here. Read recently somewhere about the Russian numbers picking up again . . . .

So yeah I think I'll just stay calm for now and wait & see rather than emit orthodox Chicken Little squawks to play to the mob. Just have to suffer those terribly distressing claims by yer average TVF knee-jerk that I must be a real estate agent (our worst villain!) and wear rose-tinted glasses (which never gets old and is never shallow).

Funny, I totally agreed w/ Berty100 above that businesses were closing on Pattaya Nua but the reasons for their closing are obvious based on purely local business conditions. Surprising thing is that they hung on long as they did. But it seems there were two problems: first, I wasn't scared; second, I didn't go all global about it.

I think the rule now is that every time some podunk mobile phone shop in Pattaya like, closes, then we gotta invoke the Financial Times, The Economist, and Bloomberg. Otherwise--well, you know . . . .

where do you find time to write all these lengthy post? Do you have your own secretary?

but seriously, i really do think thats the armagedon is for soon in pattaya.

A thai friend who work in a hotel, told me recently the business is way down. They are just making loss, week after week.

The owner is thinking of selling as he dont see any bright future.... the goose is cooked.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Bender

[Scotwight]

where do you find time to write all these lengthy post? Do you have your own secretary?

but seriously, i really do think thats the armagedon is for soon in pattaya.

A thai friend who work in a hotel, told me recently the business is way down. They are just making loss, week after week.

The owner is thinking of selling as he dont see any bright future.... the goose is cooked.

Boss Hog left in 2005. What do you think he predicted? There has been enough geese cooked to provide me with Christmas dinners for eternity.

[onemorechang]

We have passed our sell by date with the Thais, ( fickleness of the Thais)

Will the Chinese and Indians be here in 10 years time. who knows or cares.

Pattaya is not as friendly towards us Falangs now days as a few years back.

Not much chance of that changing,

To invest in a businesses in pattaya, you are off your rocker to do so.

Be more business going down the tubes near you soon

Cops and immigration will become harder for the farang business owner

mafia Bs will get worse. you need big pockets in pattaya now days, more people with the hand out wanting

kick backs.

Pattaya / Thailand is way over due for an adjustment in all areas.

Also it an't that special place anymore.

Was going to invest more money in Thailand this year.

but no, they just lost out, Uk just got 20million baht investment from me.

way more safe than Thailand, Spain or Portugal may well get some next year..

Shame, would have loved to have done some money here.

But after 20 years around Pattaya, No Can Do. just not the same feel

and laws and government are mad.

A bigger place to live is on the cards here, but that's it for ever.

Uk investment is way better return and safer over a long period for the Thai wife.

It will be a more controllable / sustainable income for her, now and after i have gone.

That should be a very long time in the future, if the family don't get me first !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited June 7, 2016 by onemorechang

[Bender]

where do you find time to write all these lengthy post? Do you have your own secretary?

but seriously, i really do think thats the armagedon is for soon in pattaya.

A thai friend who work in a hotel, told me recently the business is way down. They are just making loss, week after week.

The owner is thinking of selling as he dont see any bright future.... the goose is cooked.

Boss Hog left in 2005. What do you think he predicted? There has been enough geese cooked to provide me with Christmas dinners for eternity.

but i really do think, now its for sure.

[Scotwight]

where do you find time to write all these lengthy post? Do you have your own secretary?

but seriously, i really do think thats the armagedon is for soon in pattaya.

A thai friend who work in a hotel, told me recently the business is way down. They are just making loss, week after week.

The owner is thinking of selling as he dont see any bright future.... the goose is cooked.

Boss Hog left in 2005. What do you think he predicted? There has been enough geese cooked to provide me with Christmas dinners for eternity.

but i really do think, now its for sure.

Almost no unemployment. Currency strong. Tourism strong. Industrial production in Thailand increased 1.54 percent in April of 2016 over the same month in the previous year. http://www.tradingeconomics.com/thailand/industrial-production

[Berty100]

where do you find time to write all these lengthy post? Do you have your own secretary?

but seriously, i really do think thats the armagedon is for soon in pattaya.

A thai friend who work in a hotel, told me recently the business is way down. They are just making loss, week after week.

The owner is thinking of selling as he dont see any bright future.... the goose is cooked.

Boss Hog left in 2005. What do you think he predicted? There has been enough geese cooked to provide me with Christmas dinners for eternity.

but i really do think, now its for sure.

Almost no unemployment. Currency strong. Tourism strong. Industrial production in Thailand increased 1.54 percent in April of 2016 over the same month in the previous year. http://www.tradingeconomics.com/thailand/industrial-production

Hey that's great, though I read something completely different on the same page you link to.

On a monthly basis, industrial production dropped by 17.46 percent, compared to a 10.65 percent gain in a month earlier. It is the first decline since January and the sharpest since October 2011.

[morrobay]

where do you find time to write all these lengthy post? Do you have your own secretary?

but seriously, i really do think thats the armagedon is for soon in pattaya.

A thai friend who work in a hotel, told me recently the business is way down. They are just making loss, week after week.

The owner is thinking of selling as he dont see any bright future.... the goose is cooked.

Boss Hog left in 2005. What do you think he predicted? There has been enough geese cooked to provide me with Christmas dinners for eternity.

but i really do think, now its for sure.

Almost no unemployment. Currency strong. Tourism strong. Industrial production in Thailand increased 1.54 percent in April of 2016 over the same month in the previous year. http://www.tradingeconomics.com/thailand/industrial-production

Almost no unemployment. ^ Dont forget the definition of "employment" here:Suppose an employee in a company in Bangkok loses his/her job and moves back up to

the family farm and works one hour a week. Employed.

[Bender]

Boss Hog left in 2005. What do you think he predicted? There has been enough geese cooked to provide me with Christmas dinners for eternity.

but i really do think, now its for sure.

Almost no unemployment. Currency strong. Tourism strong. Industrial production in Thailand increased 1.54 percent in April of 2016 over the same month in the previous year. http://www.tradingeconomics.com/thailand/industrial-production

Hey that's great, though I read something completely different on the same page you link to.

On a monthly basis, industrial production dropped by 17.46 percent, compared to a 10.65 percent gain in a month earlier. It is the first decline since January and the sharpest since October 2011.

You completely right,

not only the industry is down by 17.46 percent http://www.tradingeconomics.com/thailand/industrial-production-mom

but more worrisome the foreign direct investment http://www.tradingeconomics.com/thailand/foreign-direct-investment is at his lowest historic level.

Foreigners are simply running away from this country.

@Scotwight, before you post data sheet, you should read them first... ( but anyway thanks for your link, now we know how bad it is! )

Edited June 8, 2016 by Bender

[Bender]

Boss Hog left in 2005. What do you think he predicted? There has been enough geese cooked to provide me with Christmas dinners for eternity.

but i really do think, now its for sure.

Almost no unemployment. Currency strong. Tourism strong. Industrial production in Thailand increased 1.54 percent in April of 2016 over the same month in the previous year. http://www.tradingeconomics.com/thailand/industrial-production

Almost no unemployment. ^ Dont forget the definition of "employment" here:Suppose an employee in a company in Bangkok loses his/her job and moves back up to

the family farm and works one hour a week. Employed.

... and the tourism is strong with the zero baht tour

[JSixpack]

where do you find time to write all these lengthy post? Do you have your own secretary?

Piece o' cake. Me, I was lucky to have had an excellent typing teacher in the 10th grade: Mrs. Brown, bless 'er. If you yourself need help learning to type, you might try here: Learn How to Touch Type. I'm not allowed to give recommendations re: spelling and grammar. I'm also enjoying using my backlit mechanical keyboard with Cherry MX blue switches. Tried one yet? You should. Think: we could have lots of long, learned economic dissertations here, with directly relevant numbers and "tangible" connections, if more of our posters weren't just using mobile phones. For perspective, consider that Tolstoy rewrote War And Peace eight times with a quill pen.

but seriously, i really do think thats the armagedon is for soon in pattaya.

Of course you do. We knew that. But thank you for sharing.

Edited June 8, 2016 by JSixpack

[Bender]

where do you find time to write all these lengthy post? Do you have your own secretary?

Piece o' cake. Me, I was lucky to have had an excellent typing teacher in the 10th grade: Mrs. Brown, bless 'er. If you yourself need help learning to type, you might try here: Learn How to Touch Type. I'm not allowed to give recommendations re: spelling and grammar. I'm also enjoying using my backlit mechanical keyboard with Cherry MX blue switches. Tried one yet? You should. Think: we could have lots of long, learned economic dissertations here, with directly relevant numbers and "tangible" connections, if more of our posters weren't just using mobile phones. For perspective, consider that Tolstoy rewrote War And Peace eight times with a quill pen.

but seriously, i really do think thats the armagedon is for soon in pattaya.

But of course you do. We knew that.

" I was lucky to have had an excellent typing teacher in the 10th grade: Mrs. Brown"

typing???!!!

In what kind of school did you spend your childhood? girl pension?

Me i was lucky to play truant

By the way, is your teacher Mrs Brown, the one who was convicted for murder and robbery http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/19/us/joyce-ann-brown-shackled-by-her-name-to-anothers-crime-dies-at-68.html?_r=0

or the one indicted in child abuse http://www.deseretnews.com/article/685192636/Teacher-is-charged-with-child-sex-abuse.html?pg=all

(that might explain a lot with the fact your spent your time learning typing)

ps: if you are interested, i have for sale a dozen of high end keyboard and mouse. Gift from my previous job

Edited June 8, 2016 by Bender

[Scotwight]

Almost no unemployment. ^ Dont forget the definition of "employment" here:Suppose an employee in a company in Bangkok loses his/her job and moves back up to

the family farm and works one hour a week. Employed.

Not correct. Read up a bit before you post.

http://web.nso.go.th/

[Scotwight]

but i really do think, now its for sure.

Almost no unemployment. Currency strong. Tourism strong. Industrial production in Thailand increased 1.54 percent in April of 2016 over the same month in the previous year. http://www.tradingeconomics.com/thailand/industrial-production

Hey that's great, though I read something completely different on the same page you link to.

On a monthly basis, industrial production dropped by 17.46 percent, compared to a 10.65 percent gain in a month earlier. It is the first decline since January and the sharpest since October 2011.

You completely right,

not only the industry is down by 17.46 percent http://www.tradingeconomics.com/thailand/industrial-production-mom

but more worrisome the foreign direct investment http://www.tradingeconomics.com/thailand/foreign-direct-investment is at his lowest historic level.

Foreigners are simply running away from this country.

@Scotwight, before you post data sheet, you should read them first... ( but anyway thanks for your link, now we know how bad it is! )

I posted it so we could discuss some facts instead of anecdotal nonsense posts about bar closings. What percent of the Thai economy is driven by foreign investment?

[Bender]

You completely right,

not only the industry is down by 17.46 percent http://www.tradingeconomics.com/thailand/industrial-production-mom

but more worrisome the foreign direct investment http://www.tradingeconomics.com/thailand/foreign-direct-investment is at his lowest historic level.

Foreigners are simply running away from this country.

@Scotwight, before you post data sheet, you should read them first... ( but anyway thanks for your link, now we know how bad it is! )

I posted it so we could discuss some facts instead of anecdotal nonsense posts about bar closings. What percent of the Thai economy is driven by foreign investment?

FDI is an important factor to sustain an economic growth, this is a basic knowledge...

Look what real economists from others developing country wrote about FDI:

There is a strong relationship between foreign investment and economic growth. Larger inflows of foreign investments are needed for the country to achieve a sustainable high trajectory of economic growth. There are several irrefutable reasons for this. For the economy to grow by 7 to 8 per cent a year there is a need to invest around 35 to 40 per cent of GDP. National savings fall far short of this by nearly 10 per cent. Foreign borrowing and foreign investments have to meet this investment-savings gap. This is generally recognized and successive governments have attempted to provide various incentives to foreign investors.

http://www.sundaytimes.lk/110529/Columns/eco.html

It's clear what India's next step should be to achieve growth: make foreign direct investment (FDI) a top priority. However, India offers only a hesitant welcome to FDI. It seeks investment in several industries, including manufacturing, construction, telecommunications and financial services, but not in others like multi-brand retail.

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2014-09-23/news/54239387_1_much-fdi-foreign-direct-investment-gdp-growth

Edited June 8, 2016 by Bender

[Scotwight]

I posted it so we could discuss some facts instead of anecdotal nonsense posts about bar closings. What percent of the Thai economy is driven by foreign investment?

FDI is an important factor to sustain an economic growth, this is a basic knowledge...

Look what real economists from others developing country wrote about FDI:

There is a strong relationship between foreign investment and economic growth. Larger inflows of foreign investments are needed for the country to achieve a sustainable high trajectory of economic growth. There are several irrefutable reasons for this. For the economy to grow by 7 to 8 per cent a year there is a need to invest around 35 to 40 per cent of GDP. National savings fall far short of this by nearly 10 per cent. Foreign borrowing and foreign investments have to meet this investment-savings gap. This is generally recognized and successive governments have attempted to provide various incentives to foreign investors.

http://www.sundaytimes.lk/110529/Columns/eco.html

It's clear what India's next step should be to achieve growth: make foreign direct investment (FDI) a top priority. However, India offers only a hesitant welcome to FDI. It seeks investment in several industries, including manufacturing, construction, telecommunications and financial services, but not in others like multi-brand retail.

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2014-09-23/news/54239387_1_much-fdi-foreign-direct-investment-gdp-growth

To comment on your answer we would have to know how much foreign investment effects the Thai economy. I asked before because I don't know the answer. Of course it is important but the key is how important is it? A lot of the foreign investment is static as in Auto companies that export a couple of million Japanese and American made in Thailand each year.

I agree with you. I just don't know if it one percent or five percent of the GDP. The Western tourists seem to have been replaced with Chinese and I'm sure the Chinese would love to invest. How or when or how much I don't know.

[Bangkokazy]

your words Foreign owned business closings ... worse than ever?

basically would not bring money sell it to a stupid tursist

[Bender]

A thai friend of mine who live in Bkk, confirmed the situation is actually quite awful in pattaya.

Its not only foreigners who avoid pats, but we have also an exodus of thai worker from this city.

My friend told me, that in the last few months, he heard several thais did leave pattaya to relocate in Bangkok.

These people were working as bbq seller, cloths seller, haircut dresser, waiter etc.

The main reason, their income was so low this year, due to a lack of farangs, they have no option but to go look for a work somewhere else.

Edited June 11, 2016 by Bender

[morrobay]

A thai friend of mine who live in Bkk, confirmed the situation is actually quite awful in pattaya.

Its not only foreigners who avoid pats, but we have also an exodus of thai worker from this city.

My friend told me, that in the last few months, he heard several thais did leave pattaya to relocate in Bangkok.

These people were working as bbq seller, cloths seller, haircut dresser, waiter etc.

The main reason, their income was so low this year, due to a lack of farangs, they have no option but to go look for a work somewhere else.

The other main reason is the excess in thousands of thai workers in the same businesses. Several thais leaving ?

What about all the others that recently arrived ?

Edited June 12, 2016 by morrobay

[sharecropper]

I met with my lawyer on Friday in Pattaya - I've known him for many years - he said his business has tailed off dramatically this year, and all HIS (foreign and Thai) clients are complaining about lack of business and no customers in the town. Just confirms what we already know....

[Bender]

A thai friend of mine who live in Bkk, confirmed the situation is actually quite awful in pattaya.

Its not only foreigners who avoid pats, but we have also an exodus of thai worker from this city.

My friend told me, that in the last few months, he heard several thais did leave pattaya to relocate in Bangkok.

These people were working as bbq seller, cloths seller, haircut dresser, waiter etc.

The main reason, their income was so low this year, due to a lack of farangs, they have no option but to go look for a work somewhere else.

The other main reason is the excess in thousands of thai workers in the same businesses. Several thais leaving ?

What about all the others that recently arrived ?

"What about all the others that recently arrived ?"

Who? I dont think people are moving to pattaya to get a job.

If you have a thai wife ask her about the situation there, everyone is complaining.

[Scotwight]

A thai friend of mine who live in Bkk, confirmed the situation is actually quite awful in pattaya.

Its not only foreigners who avoid pats, but we have also an exodus of thai worker from this city.

My friend told me, that in the last few months, he heard several thais did leave pattaya to relocate in Bangkok.

These people were working as bbq seller, cloths seller, haircut dresser, waiter etc.

The main reason, their income was so low this year, due to a lack of farangs, they have no option but to go look for a work somewhere else.

The other main reason is the excess in thousands of thai workers in the same businesses. Several thais leaving ?

What about all the others that recently arrived ?

"What about all the others that recently arrived ?"

Who? I dont think people are moving to pattaya to get a job.

If you have a thai wife ask her about the situation there, everyone is complaining.

I have a lady friend who just moved from Bangkok to Pattaya and she is making quite a bit more money 7500 for 10 and then two days off and so on. With tips she makes as much as a doctor. I'd suggest it's time for you to visit Pattaya and not just a few old Farang bars. Take a look at the whole city. Of course we could trade anecdotal evidence till the cows come home.

[NanLaew]

A thai friend of mine who live in Bkk, confirmed the situation is actually quite awful in pattaya.

Its not only foreigners who avoid pats, but we have also an exodus of thai worker from this city.

My friend told me, that in the last few months, he heard several thais did leave pattaya to relocate in Bangkok.

These people were working as bbq seller, cloths seller, haircut dresser, waiter etc.

The main reason, their income was so low this year, due to a lack of farangs, they have no option but to go look for a work somewhere else.

The other main reason is the excess in thousands of thai workers in the same businesses. Several thais leaving ?

What about all the others that recently arrived ?

"What about all the others that recently arrived ?"

Who? I dont think people are moving to pattaya to get a job.

If you have a thai wife ask her about the situation there, everyone is complaining.

I have a lady friend who just moved from Bangkok to Pattaya and she is making quite a bit more money 7500 for 10 and then two days off and so on. With tips she makes as much as a doctor. I'd suggest it's time for you to visit Pattaya and not just a few old Farang bars. Take a look at the whole city. Of course we could trade anecdotal evidence till the cows come home.

One swallow does not make a Spring.

Very glad to hear that you personally know of one individual who is bucking the otherwise obvious trend. Another non-anecdotal indicator of the huge downturn in local business and significant exodus of the locals is that second-hand salengs are a bargain right now. The locals are either going back to Bangkok where there's more diversity in the marketplace or chucking in the towel completely and getting factory jobs.

[Scotwight]

"What about all the others that recently arrived ?"

Who? I dont think people are moving to pattaya to get a job.

If you have a thai wife ask her about the situation there, everyone is complaining.

I have a lady friend who just moved from Bangkok to Pattaya and she is making quite a bit more money 7500 for 10 and then two days off and so on. With tips she makes as much as a doctor. I'd suggest it's time for you to visit Pattaya and not just a few old Farang bars. Take a look at the whole city. Of course we could trade anecdotal evidence till the cows come home.

One swallow does not make a Spring.

Very glad to hear that you personally know of one individual who is bucking the otherwise obvious trend. Another non-anecdotal indicator of the huge downturn in local business and significant exodus of the locals is that second-hand salengs are a bargain right now. The locals are either going back to Bangkok where there's more diversity in the marketplace or chucking in the towel completely and getting factory jobs.

One swallow is better than nothing to drink. At least I quote one person I know. You don't quote anyone. If you read my post (fat chance) I was mocking the poster Bender for posting anecdotal evidence rather than some kind of factual information about business in Pattaya.

My point was why should I believe Bender anymore than a person who actually spends some time in Pattaya? Why should I believe you? Or you me? You have a reason to try and create a negative business climate in Pattaya and I don't so I can be objective and you can't.

Really beyond those deduced reasons I can think of no reason to believe anyone who does not present hard data dealing with the city as a whole instead of microcosms

of personal experience.

Your guess is no better than mine. Are there consumer confidence surveys in Pattaya? Are there labor statistics in Pattaya? Are there tax records in Pattaya?

Edited June 13, 2016 by Scotwight

[Berty100]

"What about all the others that recently arrived ?"

Who? I dont think people are moving to pattaya to get a job.

If you have a thai wife ask her about the situation there, everyone is complaining.

I have a lady friend who just moved from Bangkok to Pattaya and she is making quite a bit more money 7500 for 10 and then two days off and so on. With tips she makes as much as a doctor. I'd suggest it's time for you to visit Pattaya and not just a few old Farang bars. Take a look at the whole city. Of course we could trade anecdotal evidence till the cows come home.

One swallow does not make a Spring.

Very glad to hear that you personally know of one individual who is bucking the otherwise obvious trend. Another non-anecdotal indicator of the huge downturn in local business and significant exodus of the locals is that second-hand salengs are a bargain right now. The locals are either going back to Bangkok where there's more diversity in the marketplace or chucking in the towel completely and getting factory jobs.

One swallow is better than nothing to drink. At least I quote one person I know. You don't quote anyone. If you read my post (fat chance) I was mocking the poster Bender for posting anecdotal evidence rather than some kind of factual information about business in Pattaya.

My point was why should I believe Bender anymore than a person who actually spends some time in Pattaya? Why should I believe you? Or you me? You have a reason to try and create a negative business climate in Pattaya and I don't so I can be objective and you can't.

Really beyond those deduced reasons I can think of no reason to believe anyone who does not present hard data dealing with the city as a whole instead of microcosms

of personal experience.

Your guess is no better than mine. Are there consumer confidence surveys in Pattaya? Are there labor statistics in Pattaya? Are there tax records in Pattaya?

No there are no consumer confidence survey's for Pattaya, but there is one for Thailand, and last time I checked that's where Pattaya is part of.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/923904-thai-consumer-confidence-index-falls-to-lowest-in-eight-months/?hl=%2Bconsumer+%2Bconfidence

Consumer confidence index (CCI) for May 2016 plunged to its lowest level in a period of eight months, the University of the Thai Chamber of Commerce (UTCC) revealed yesterday.

[JESSVANPELT]

A thai friend of mine who live in Bkk, confirmed the situation is actually quite awful in pattaya.

Its not only foreigners who avoid pats, but we have also an exodus of thai worker from this city.

My friend told me, that in the last few months, he heard several thais did leave pattaya to relocate in Bangkok.

These people were working as bbq seller, cloths seller, haircut dresser, waiter etc.

The main reason, their income was so low this year, due to a lack of farangs, they have no option but to go look for a work somewhere else.

Every year for the last 12 I have seen the busses arrive with all kinds of people coming from Isaan to find work and once high season is ver with they go home. I walk around this city daily and there is no shortage of food stalls and very few shuttered buildings...You can also find many places looking for employees. I walked past the big AA hotel yesterday and they were putting up the posting for the open jobs, once it was up i counted 32 jobs. There is nothing going on in this city besides Low (slow) season.

And there were more farina's here this year then the past 5, So please do some research before making silly statements.

This whole topic is baseless

[Scotwight]

No there are no consumer confidence survey's for Pattaya, but there is one for Thailand, and last time I checked that's where Pattaya is part of.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/923904-thai-consumer-confidence-index-falls-to-lowest-in-eight-months/?hl=%2Bconsumer+%2Bconfidence

Consumer confidence index (CCI) for May 2016 plunged to its lowest level in a period of eight months, the University of the Thai Chamber of Commerce (UTCC) revealed yesterday.

Thailand's consumer confidence dropped in January, after four months of increase, according to the survey of the University of Thai Chamber of Commerce.

It said that pulling down the confidence was mainly concerns in global economic condition, particularly the slowdown in China. Meanwhile, agricultural product prices remained low while the cost of living remained high.

Sustaining the confidence in the month was anticipation of benefits from public spending programmes.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/First-drop-in-consumer-confidence-in-four-months-30278540.html

Edited June 13, 2016 by Scotwight

[Bender]

maybe some people are blind, so i put again my post #205

A thai friend of mine who live in Bkk, confirmed the situation is actually quite awful in pattaya.

Its not only foreigners who avoid pats, but we have also an exodus of thai worker from this city.

My friend told me, that in the last few months, he heard several thais did leave pattaya to relocate in Bangkok.

These people were working as bbq seller, cloths seller, haircut dresser, waiter etc.

The main reason, their income was so low this year, due to a lack of farangs, they have no option but to go look for a work somewhere else.

@ JESSEVANPELT, i am not talking about hookers, but honest hard worker people . The exodus started apperently before the low season.... and thats unusual!

[Bender]

"What about all the others that recently arrived ?"

Who? I dont think people are moving to pattaya to get a job.

If you have a thai wife ask her about the situation there, everyone is complaining.

I have a lady friend who just moved from Bangkok to Pattaya and she is making quite a bit more money 7500 for 10 and then two days off and so on. With tips she makes as much as a doctor. I'd suggest it's time for you to visit Pattaya and not just a few old Farang bars. Take a look at the whole city. Of course we could trade anecdotal evidence till the cows come home.

One swallow does not make a Spring.

Very glad to hear that you personally know of one individual who is bucking the otherwise obvious trend. Another non-anecdotal indicator of the huge downturn in local business and significant exodus of the locals is that second-hand salengs are a bargain right now. The locals are either going back to Bangkok where there's more diversity in the marketplace or chucking in the towel completely and getting factory jobs.

One swallow is better than nothing to drink. At least I quote one person I know. You don't quote anyone. If you read my post (fat chance) I was mocking the poster Bender for posting anecdotal evidence rather than some kind of factual information about business in Pattaya.

My point was why should I believe Bender anymore than a person who actually spends some time in Pattaya? Why should I believe you? Or you me? You have a reason to try and create a negative business climate in Pattaya and I don't so I can be objective and you can't.

Really beyond those deduced reasons I can think of no reason to believe anyone who does not present hard data dealing with the city as a whole instead of microcosms

of personal experience.

Your guess is no better than mine. Are there consumer confidence surveys in Pattaya? Are there labor statistics in Pattaya? Are there tax records in Pattaya?

If you read my post (fat chance) I was mocking the poster Bender

You have a reason to try and create a negative business climate in Pattaya

please tell us you dont write your post from a bar stool, and i am not teasing you.

Because we are all here (even JSixpack) really impress with your financial skills....