Foreign owned business closings ... worse than ever?

[Scotwight]

If you read my post (fat chance) I was mocking the poster Bender

You have a reason to try and create a negative business climate in Pattaya

please tell us you dont write your post from a bar stool, and i am not teasing you.

Because we are all here (even JSixpack) really impress with your financial skills....

Try responding to what I write instead of insulting my person and trying to start a flame war.

Do you have any real information about Pattaya not a friend of a friend stuff. When was the last time you were in Pattaya and how much time did you take surveying business? Why not hookers? Hookers are a renewable Thai resource that brings in foreign currency without using any non renewable natural resources. You can only sell a gold bar or gas reserve one time not so with Hookers. Hooker spends an hour with a Farang and the money goes to her family in Issan or the drug dealers family in Issan who put it in the bank and the bank loans it out to build a house and the ex hooker construction workers are paid the money to build the house and they put the salary in the bank which is loaned out to pay for the ex hookers kids in the school and the teachers who are ex hookers too are paid a salary and that gets put in the bank and so on and so on.

[Bender]

If you read my post (fat chance) I was mocking the poster Bender

You have a reason to try and create a negative business climate in Pattaya

please tell us you dont write your post from a bar stool, and i am not teasing you.

Because we are all here (even JSixpack) really impress with your financial skills....

Try responding to what I write instead of insulting my person and trying to start a flame war.

Do you have any real information about Pattaya not a friend of a friend stuff. When was the last time you were in Pattaya and how much time did you take surveying business? Why not hookers? Hookers are a renewable Thai resource that brings in foreign currency without using any non renewable natural resources. You can only sell a gold bar or gas reserve one time not so with Hookers. Hooker spends an hour with a Farang and the money goes to her family in Issan or the drug dealers family in Issan who put it in the bank and the bank loans it out to build a house and the ex hooker construction workers are paid the money to build the house and they put the salary in the bank which is loaned out to pay for the ex hookers kids in the school and the teachers who are ex hookers too are paid a salary and that gets put in the bank and so on and so on.

sorry i didnt mean to insult you...

Hookers is not a good indicators of business, as the demography of visitor as changed in the recent years. Sorry i just read the first 2 sentences of your posts as i am not really interested in gibberish about junkies hookers.

I get the information from an old thai friend in Bkk, i guess my friend knows more than you.

I dont waste my time chatting about politics or finance with hookers.

Now leave this bar stool and go home

[Scotwight]

If you read my post (fat chance) I was mocking the poster Bender

You have a reason to try and create a negative business climate in Pattaya

please tell us you dont write your post from a bar stool, and i am not teasing you.

Because we are all here (even JSixpack) really impress with your financial skills....

Try responding to what I write instead of insulting my person and trying to start a flame war.

Do you have any real information about Pattaya not a friend of a friend stuff. When was the last time you were in Pattaya and how much time did you take surveying business? Why not hookers? Hookers are a renewable Thai resource that brings in foreign currency without using any non renewable natural resources. You can only sell a gold bar or gas reserve one time not so with Hookers. Hooker spends an hour with a Farang and the money goes to her family in Issan or the drug dealers family in Issan who put it in the bank and the bank loans it out to build a house and the ex hooker construction workers are paid the money to build the house and they put the salary in the bank which is loaned out to pay for the ex hookers kids in the school and the teachers who are ex hookers too are paid a salary and that gets put in the bank and so on and so on.

sorry i didnt mean to insult you...

Hookers is not a good indicators of business, as the demography of visitor as changed in the recent years. Sorry i just read the first 2 sentences of your posts as i am not really interested in gibberish about junkies hookers.

I get the information from an old thai friend in Bkk, i guess my friend knows more than you.

I dont waste my time chatting about politics or finance with hookers.

Now leave this bar stool and go home

How would your friend know more than I? Did he get here before 1970 and how long has he lived in Pattaya? The bar demo is changing but not the bar operations. Hookers are the source of a large amount of the foreign reserves enjoyed by Thailand. Is your only debate style insult? I'm not a bar person and for you to suggest that I am is a flame and insult.

[Bender]

If you read my post (fat chance) I was mocking the poster Bender

You have a reason to try and create a negative business climate in Pattaya

please tell us you dont write your post from a bar stool, and i am not teasing you.

Because we are all here (even JSixpack) really impress with your financial skills....

Try responding to what I write instead of insulting my person and trying to start a flame war.

Do you have any real information about Pattaya not a friend of a friend stuff. When was the last time you were in Pattaya and how much time did you take surveying business? Why not hookers? Hookers are a renewable Thai resource that brings in foreign currency without using any non renewable natural resources. You can only sell a gold bar or gas reserve one time not so with Hookers. Hooker spends an hour with a Farang and the money goes to her family in Issan or the drug dealers family in Issan who put it in the bank and the bank loans it out to build a house and the ex hooker construction workers are paid the money to build the house and they put the salary in the bank which is loaned out to pay for the ex hookers kids in the school and the teachers who are ex hookers too are paid a salary and that gets put in the bank and so on and so on.

sorry i didnt mean to insult you...

Hookers is not a good indicators of business, as the demography of visitor as changed in the recent years. Sorry i just read the first 2 sentences of your posts as i am not really interested in gibberish about junkies hookers.

I get the information from an old thai friend in Bkk, i guess my friend knows more than you.

I dont waste my time chatting about politics or finance with hookers.

Now leave this bar stool and go home

How would your friend know more than I? Did he get here before 1970 and how long has he lived in Pattaya? The bar demo is changing but not the bar operations. Hookers are the source of a large amount of the foreign reserves enjoyed by Thailand. Is your only debate style insult? I'm not a bar person and for you to suggest that I am is a flame and insult.

I'm not a bar person and for you to suggest that I am is a flame and insult.

Oh please stop playing your little victim, if you dont have sense of humor dont abuse other members.

My thai friend speak thai, and have hundreds of thai friendS with whom on a daily basis my friend talk to. ... Any thai know more than you about the real situation. You live on a pink cloud.

[Rimmer]

OK That's enough bickering thank you.

[JESSVANPELT]

maybe some people are blind, so i put again my post #205

A thai friend of mine who live in Bkk, confirmed the situation is actually quite awful in pattaya.

Its not only foreigners who avoid pats, but we have also an exodus of thai worker from this city.

My friend told me, that in the last few months, he heard several thais did leave pattaya to relocate in Bangkok.

These people were working as bbq seller, cloths seller, haircut dresser, waiter etc.

The main reason, their income was so low this year, due to a lack of farangs, they have no option but to go look for a work somewhere else.

@ JESSEVANPELT, i am not talking about hookers, but honest hard worker people . The exodus started apperently before the low season.... and thats unusual!

I did not mention hookers!....all business in Pattaya, Hua Hin, and Phuket go through the season moves of the population, they work there when there are jobs and leave when the jobs are done, normally to go home to plant the first crop before rainy season. Simple basic Thailand as its been for years.

[JESSVANPELT]

Bender knows everything, just let hime tell you so, unfortunately he never has anything to back up his statements

[NanLaew]

"What about all the others that recently arrived ?"

Who? I dont think people are moving to pattaya to get a job.

If you have a thai wife ask her about the situation there, everyone is complaining.

I have a lady friend who just moved from Bangkok to Pattaya and she is making quite a bit more money 7500 for 10 and then two days off and so on. With tips she makes as much as a doctor. I'd suggest it's time for you to visit Pattaya and not just a few old Farang bars. Take a look at the whole city. Of course we could trade anecdotal evidence till the cows come home.

One swallow does not make a Spring.

Very glad to hear that you personally know of one individual who is bucking the otherwise obvious trend. Another non-anecdotal indicator of the huge downturn in local business and significant exodus of the locals is that second-hand salengs are a bargain right now. The locals are either going back to Bangkok where there's more diversity in the marketplace or chucking in the towel completely and getting factory jobs.

One swallow is better than nothing to drink. At least I quote one person I know. You don't quote anyone. If you read my post (fat chance) I was mocking the poster Bender for posting anecdotal evidence rather than some kind of factual information about business in Pattaya.

My point was why should I believe Bender anymore than a person who actually spends some time in Pattaya? Why should I believe you? Or you me? You have a reason to try and create a negative business climate in Pattaya and I don't so I can be objective and you can't.

Really beyond those deduced reasons I can think of no reason to believe anyone who does not present hard data dealing with the city as a whole instead of microcosms

of personal experience.

Your guess is no better than mine. Are there consumer confidence surveys in Pattaya? Are there labor statistics in Pattaya? Are there tax records in Pattaya?

I don't profess to have empirical knowledge of the positively vibrant local economy based on knowing one person who moved from Bangkok to Pattaya and is getting paid more. That's entirely your domain.

I do not need to quote anyone. My viewpoint or "hard data" as you call it is based on my personal experience, not the experience of someone I know. Do you know what a saleng is?

As the spouse of a Pattaya area business owner, I have absolutely no reason to "try and create a negative business climate in Pattaya" since it exists regardless of whether you agree or not on how individuals come to this conclusion or how it is measured and quantified. When it comes to anyone's perceived lack of objectivity, what is quoting another persons work experience if it isn't highlighting a "microsm of (someone elses) personal experience"? As well as being anecdotal, it is also bereft of objectivity.

Anyway, you carry on mocking other people and sidelining their opinions on your assumption that they sit around in bars or aren't even living here. Somewhere down the line you slip in a comment that infers that being here "before 1970" is somehow important. Have you? Is it relevant? You also make a statement that, "Hookers are the source of a large amount of the foreign reserves enjoyed by Thailand." Now how does a self-proclaimed "non bar person" come up with that little gem of absolute nonsense?

Edited June 13, 2016 by NanLaew

[NanLaew]

maybe some people are blind, so i put again my post #205

A thai friend of mine who live in Bkk, confirmed the situation is actually quite awful in pattaya.

Its not only foreigners who avoid pats, but we have also an exodus of thai worker from this city.

My friend told me, that in the last few months, he heard several thais did leave pattaya to relocate in Bangkok.

These people were working as bbq seller, cloths seller, haircut dresser, waiter etc.

The main reason, their income was so low this year, due to a lack of farangs, they have no option but to go look for a work somewhere else.

@ JESSEVANPELT, i am not talking about hookers, but honest hard worker people . The exodus started apperently before the low season.... and thats unusual!

I did not mention hookers!....all business in Pattaya, Hua Hin, and Phuket go through the season moves of the population, they work there when there are jobs and leave when the jobs are done, normally to go home to plant the first crop before rainy season. Simple basic Thailand as its been for years.

Don't get distracted by the guy with the rambling trickle-down Thai hooker economic theory, it was neither you, bender or myself.

You are correct that the seasonal shift of Pattaya's erstwhile transient Isaan labour force typically sees them heading for upper Bahn Nork for the rice planting during low tourist season. However, there is a trend for those that had small but busy enterprises on the dark side starting to move over to the city while those in the city are tending to migrate to Bangkok. These aren't your bar girls, bell hops and motor cycle taxi guys heading back to Isaan. These are local workers with bills to pay and mouths to feed who are increasingly concerned with the very real drop in local trade and income and they are simply following the money.

[morrobay]

I met with my lawyer on Friday in Pattaya - I've known him for many years - he said his business has tailed off dramatically this year, and all HIS (foreign and Thai) clients are complaining about lack of business and no customers in the town. Just confirms what we already know....

One example has moved me over to this side ^. There has been a longstanding thai massage shop (6 years, with 4 - 8 girls) connected to my building with 100% foreign customers.

Today the moving truck vacated this space. Reason : no customers.

[elgordo38]

I met with my lawyer on Friday in Pattaya - I've known him for many years - he said his business has tailed off dramatically this year, and all HIS (foreign and Thai) clients are complaining about lack of business and no customers in the town. Just confirms what we already know....

One example has moved me over to this side ^. There has been a longstanding thai massage shop (6 years, with 4 - 8 girls) connected to my building with 100% foreign customers.

Today the moving truck vacated this space. Reason : no customers.

Well finally a believable answer. I guess as it states in the bible the 7 fat years are coming to an end. Be prepared. The over indebted lifestyle to which many would like to become accustomed is fast drawing to an close. The party is over. Time to pay the piper.

Edited June 14, 2016 by elgordo38

[Asiantravel]

I met with my lawyer on Friday in Pattaya - I've known him for many years - he said his business has tailed off dramatically this year, and all HIS (foreign and Thai) clients are complaining about lack of business and no customers in the town. Just confirms what we already know....

One example has moved me over to this side ^. There has been a longstanding thai massage shop (6 years, with 4 - 8 girls) connected to my building with 100% foreign customers.

Today the moving truck vacated this space. Reason : no customers.

Well finally a believable answer. I guess as it states in the bible the 7 fat years are coming to an end. Be prepared. The over indebted lifestyle to which many would like to become accustomed is fast drawing to an close. The party is over. Time to pay the piper.

" Time to pay the piper. "

or maybe time to avoid having to pay anyone.................. by employing robots

KFC restaurant in China is now staffed by chicken-loving robots

http://metro.co.uk/2016/05/07/kfc-restaurant-in-china-is-now-staffed-by-chicken-loving-robots-5867436/

[elgordo38]

I met with my lawyer on Friday in Pattaya - I've known him for many years - he said his business has tailed off dramatically this year, and all HIS (foreign and Thai) clients are complaining about lack of business and no customers in the town. Just confirms what we already know....

One example has moved me over to this side ^. There has been a longstanding thai massage shop (6 years, with 4 - 8 girls) connected to my building with 100% foreign customers.

Today the moving truck vacated this space. Reason : no customers.

Well finally a believable answer. I guess as it states in the bible the 7 fat years are coming to an end. Be prepared. The over indebted lifestyle to which many would like to become accustomed is fast drawing to an close. The party is over. Time to pay the piper.

" Time to pay the piper. "

or maybe time to avoid having to pay anyone.................. by employing robots

KFC restaurant in China is now staffed by chicken-loving robots

http://metro.co.uk/2016/05/07/kfc-restaurant-in-china-is-now-staffed-by-chicken-loving-robots-5867436/

Great follow up. Maybe the robots will pay into a pension plan for us humans. When robots prevail if something is not done the humans will rebel human nature. The few big businesses left standing will need huge armies of warriors and lawyers.

[Scotwight]

I met with my lawyer on Friday in Pattaya - I've known him for many years - he said his business has tailed off dramatically this year, and all HIS (foreign and Thai) clients are complaining about lack of business and no customers in the town. Just confirms what we already know....

One example has moved me over to this side ^. There has been a longstanding thai massage shop (6 years, with 4 - 8 girls) connected to my building with 100% foreign customers.

Today the moving truck vacated this space. Reason : no customers.

Looking at your past posts you have been predicting the death of Pattaya for at least the past year. When did you post anything but the demise of Pattaya? Why would you post something like you have just changed your mind? Have you ever posted anything positive about Thailand? Honest question. I just wondered.

In the 40 years I've been coming to Pattaya I've seen a lot of changes and all of them involved Pattaya getting bigger. I've never seen it shrink. Now driving into town one sees the usual new construction everywhere. It's been that way since 1970 - something new all the time and it never gets smaller.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Scotwight

[morrobay]

Demise of Pattaya ? No just making some objective observations on the changing situation in Pattaya. Sure there is alot of construction and new development as you note above. But the current subject of a number of new posts is questioning the sustainability of this oversupply in a field of a decreasing demand from foreigners. In particular my above post is just one example that agrees with many other first hand examples regarding business closings

Edited June 14, 2016 by morrobay

[Asiantravel]

I met with my lawyer on Friday in Pattaya - I've known him for many years - he said his business has tailed off dramatically this year, and all HIS (foreign and Thai) clients are complaining about lack of business and no customers in the town. Just confirms what we already know....

One example has moved me over to this side ^. There has been a longstanding thai massage shop (6 years, with 4 - 8 girls) connected to my building with 100% foreign customers.

Today the moving truck vacated this space. Reason : no customers.

Looking at your past posts you have been predicting the death of Pattaya for at least the past year. When did you post anything but the demise of Pattaya? Why would you post something like you have just changed your mind? Have you ever posted anything positive about Thailand? Honest question. I just wondered.

In the 40 years I've been coming to Pattaya I've seen a lot of changes and all of them involved Pattaya getting bigger. I've never seen it shrink. Now driving into town one sees the usual new construction everywhere. It's been that way since 1970 - something new all the time and it never gets smaller.

" Pattaya getting bigger - new construction everywhere"

that's hardly a measure of whether businesses in Pattaya are on a sound economic footing ?

it just means there will be even more people caught with their pants down during the next global economic crisis

the same phenomenon happened just before the 1997 Asian economic crisis and led to an epidemic of non-performing loans with concrete skeletons everywhere

Edited June 14, 2016 by Asiantravel

[Scotwight]

Looking at your past posts you have been predicting the death of Pattaya for at least the past year. When did you post anything but the demise of Pattaya? Why would you post something like you have just changed your mind? Have you ever posted anything positive about Thailand? Honest question. I just wondered.

In the 40 years I've been coming to Pattaya I've seen a lot of changes and all of them involved Pattaya getting bigger. I've never seen it shrink. Now driving into town one sees the usual new construction everywhere. It's been that way since 1970 - something new all the time and it never gets smaller.

" Pattaya getting bigger - new construction everywhere"

that's hardly a measure of whether businesses in Pattaya are on a sound economic footing ?

it just means there will be even more people caught with their pants down during the next global economic crisis

the same phenomenon happened just before the 1997 Asian economic crisis and led to an epidemic of non-performing loans with concrete skeletons everywhere

Housing starts and building permits are both considered leading indicators,

A leading indicator is a measurable economic factor that changes before the economy starts to follow a particular pattern or trend. Leading indicators are used to predict changes in the economy

http://www.investopedia.com/university/releases/housingstarts.asp

Edited June 14, 2016 by Scotwight

[Scotwight]

Demise of Pattaya ? No just making some objective observations on the changing situation in Pattaya. Sure there is alot of construction and new development as you note above. But the current subject of a number of new posts is questioning the sustainability of this oversupply in a field of a decreasing demand from foreigners. In particular my above post is just one example that agrees with many other first hand examples regarding business closings

Get real. --- Approximately 6,675 units were completed and registered in 2015. • The number of new condominium units registered in 2015 is the highest in Pattaya history. • More than 30,000 condominium units are still under construction and expected to be completed in 2016 -2017.

http://www.colliers.com/-/media/files/apac/thailand/market-reports/pattaya%202h%202015-eng.pdf

[Asiantravel]

Looking at your past posts you have been predicting the death of Pattaya for at least the past year. When did you post anything but the demise of Pattaya? Why would you post something like you have just changed your mind? Have you ever posted anything positive about Thailand? Honest question. I just wondered.

In the 40 years I've been coming to Pattaya I've seen a lot of changes and all of them involved Pattaya getting bigger. I've never seen it shrink. Now driving into town one sees the usual new construction everywhere. It's been that way since 1970 - something new all the time and it never gets smaller.

" Pattaya getting bigger - new construction everywhere"

that's hardly a measure of whether businesses in Pattaya are on a sound economic footing ?

it just means there will be even more people caught with their pants down during the next global economic crisis

the same phenomenon happened just before the 1997 Asian economic crisis and led to an epidemic of non-performing loans with concrete skeletons everywhere

Housing starts and building permits are both considered leading indicators,

A leading indicator is a measurable economic factor that changes before the economy starts to follow a particular pattern or trend. Leading indicators are used to predict changes in the economy

http://www.investopedia.com/university/releases/housingstarts.asp

if you consider housing starts and building permits in Pattaya as being a leading indicator that the local economy is about to start following " a particular pattern or trend " please tell us what you believe that trend is now going to be and why?

[Asiantravel]

Demise of Pattaya ? No just making some objective observations on the changing situation in Pattaya. Sure there is alot of construction and new development as you note above. But the current subject of a number of new posts is questioning the sustainability of this oversupply in a field of a decreasing demand from foreigners. In particular my above post is just one example that agrees with many other first hand examples regarding business closings

Get real. --- Approximately 6,675 units were completed and registered in 2015. • The number of new condominium units registered in 2015 is the highest in Pattaya history. • More than 30,000 condominium units are still under construction and expected to be completed in 2016 -2017.

http://www.colliers.com/-/media/files/apac/thailand/market-reports/pattaya%202h%202015-eng.pdf

how can anyone put a positive spin on such a gigantic oversupply?

who in the hell is going to buy more than 30,000 condos?

The average Thais are already up to their necks in personal debt.

and from the report " Demand in the Pattaya condominium market has still not recovered "

[elgordo38]

Demise of Pattaya ? No just making some objective observations on the changing situation in Pattaya. Sure there is alot of construction and new development as you note above. But the current subject of a number of new posts is questioning the sustainability of this oversupply in a field of a decreasing demand from foreigners. In particular my above post is just one example that agrees with many other first hand examples regarding business closings

Get real. --- Approximately 6,675 units were completed and registered in 2015. • The number of new condominium units registered in 2015 is the highest in Pattaya history. • More than 30,000 condominium units are still under construction and expected to be completed in 2016 -2017.

http://www.colliers.com/-/media/files/apac/thailand/market-reports/pattaya%202h%202015-eng.pdf

Great figures mean nothing till a "SOLD" goes up. There are always people arriving late to a party. The more that pile in late the bigger the hurt. The great figures indicate a lot of 'GREED" which is also the late stages of any party. Nothing goes straight up or down. Its in the nature of the beast. Great figures such as ones you quote always play hell with the infrastructure and ole mother nature is another fly in the ointment from time to time like the present drought. Would be a bitch if one were to buy one of the 36,000 (boy that is a lot) you adhere to and suddenly there was not enough water, electric and sewage to go around. The government is well know to be late in addressing these issues they cost money. Also throw in a possible indefinite continuation of the present government and immigration getting its hackles up hmm. Like life itself nothing goes on forever.

[Scotwight]

Demise of Pattaya ? No just making some objective observations on the changing situation in Pattaya. Sure there is alot of construction and new development as you note above. But the current subject of a number of new posts is questioning the sustainability of this oversupply in a field of a decreasing demand from foreigners. In particular my above post is just one example that agrees with many other first hand examples regarding business closings

Get real. --- Approximately 6,675 units were completed and registered in 2015. • The number of new condominium units registered in 2015 is the highest in Pattaya history. • More than 30,000 condominium units are still under construction and expected to be completed in 2016 -2017.

http://www.colliers.com/-/media/files/apac/thailand/market-reports/pattaya%202h%202015-eng.pdf

Great figures mean nothing till a "SOLD" goes up. There are always people arriving late to a party. The more that pile in late the bigger the hurt. The great figures indicate a lot of 'GREED" which is also the late stages of any party. Nothing goes straight up or down. Its in the nature of the beast. Great figures such as ones you quote always play hell with the infrastructure and ole mother nature is another fly in the ointment from time to time like the present drought. Would be a bitch if one were to buy one of the 36,000 (boy that is a lot) you adhere to and suddenly there was not enough water, electric and sewage to go around. The government is well know to be late in addressing these issues they cost money. Also throw in a possible indefinite continuation of the present government and immigration getting its hackles up hmm. Like life itself nothing goes on forever.

I quote economic indicators and housing starts and building permits and you have touchy feely negative Pattaya grandpa wisdom. How can I compete with that? Thailand is being converted to a Chinese playground and I can't see that as being a losing proposition.

[Asiantravel]

Demise of Pattaya ? No just making some objective observations on the changing situation in Pattaya. Sure there is alot of construction and new development as you note above. But the current subject of a number of new posts is questioning the sustainability of this oversupply in a field of a decreasing demand from foreigners. In particular my above post is just one example that agrees with many other first hand examples regarding business closings

Get real. --- Approximately 6,675 units were completed and registered in 2015. • The number of new condominium units registered in 2015 is the highest in Pattaya history. • More than 30,000 condominium units are still under construction and expected to be completed in 2016 -2017.

http://www.colliers.com/-/media/files/apac/thailand/market-reports/pattaya%202h%202015-eng.pdf

Great figures mean nothing till a "SOLD" goes up. There are always people arriving late to a party. The more that pile in late the bigger the hurt. The great figures indicate a lot of 'GREED" which is also the late stages of any party. Nothing goes straight up or down. Its in the nature of the beast. Great figures such as ones you quote always play hell with the infrastructure and ole mother nature is another fly in the ointment from time to time like the present drought. Would be a bitch if one were to buy one of the 36,000 (boy that is a lot) you adhere to and suddenly there was not enough water, electric and sewage to go around. The government is well know to be late in addressing these issues they cost money. Also throw in a possible indefinite continuation of the present government and immigration getting its hackles up hmm. Like life itself nothing goes on forever.

I hope those that are more bullish about the 36,000 condo's don't see all those Chinese being ferried around on buses everywhere as able to save the day because they've got about 64 million empty condos to " absorb "

http://www.globalresearch.ca/china-ghost-cities/5421229

[Scotwight]

Demise of Pattaya ? No just making some objective observations on the changing situation in Pattaya. Sure there is alot of construction and new development as you note above. But the current subject of a number of new posts is questioning the sustainability of this oversupply in a field of a decreasing demand from foreigners. In particular my above post is just one example that agrees with many other first hand examples regarding business closings

Get real. --- Approximately 6,675 units were completed and registered in 2015. • The number of new condominium units registered in 2015 is the highest in Pattaya history. • More than 30,000 condominium units are still under construction and expected to be completed in 2016 -2017.

http://www.colliers.com/-/media/files/apac/thailand/market-reports/pattaya%202h%202015-eng.pdf

Great figures mean nothing till a "SOLD" goes up. There are always people arriving late to a party. The more that pile in late the bigger the hurt. The great figures indicate a lot of 'GREED" which is also the late stages of any party. Nothing goes straight up or down. Its in the nature of the beast. Great figures such as ones you quote always play hell with the infrastructure and ole mother nature is another fly in the ointment from time to time like the present drought. Would be a bitch if one were to buy one of the 36,000 (boy that is a lot) you adhere to and suddenly there was not enough water, electric and sewage to go around. The government is well know to be late in addressing these issues they cost money. Also throw in a possible indefinite continuation of the present government and immigration getting its hackles up hmm. Like life itself nothing goes on forever.

I hope those that are more bullish about the 36,000 condo's don't see all those Chinese being ferried around on buses everywhere as able to save the day because they've got about 64 million empty condos to " absorb "

http://www.globalresearch.ca/china-ghost-cities/5421229

Some new Chinese developers in jointventures with Thai partners are scheduled to launch new condominium projects in Pattaya in 2016 and the future, especially in the Jomtien and Na Jomtien areas.The number of new condominium projects scheduled to be launched in 2016 may be similar to 2015 at approximately 9,000 units,

That's why they are building in Pattaya rather than China. Many are running fast to remove money from China and Thailand is close enough to make it easy to export money hard and soft and legit and grey.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Scotwight

[sharecropper]

Yeah - like the Indian Condo buyers and the Russians - millions of 'em, all waiting to rush in. But they never do it.

Forget that the majority can never LEGALLY own title to their condos either.

So if you're asking people to buy condos in a potential war zone run by a - I've forgotten what's politically correct, so let's call them a bunch of usurpers - mismanaging a tanking economy, where many will never legally be able to hold their asset, I wonder how many Chinese will actually buy? They are notoriously sensitive to political and war risk, I'm told.

[JSixpack]

Quite a long circle jerk we have going on here, post after dreary post.

These seasonal PATTAYA DOOM threads could be much, much shorter and quickly move off the front page to make way for threads that might contain useful information.

Rather than have each Deathwatcher, or ace TVF economist, posture and repeat the same groupthink, why not anoint an authoritative somewhat literate (if such can be found) Head Prophet to speak for all? Not one of the neophytes, of course, deluding himself into thinking he's saying something new. No, seniority should count: some of our old curmudgeons have been crying in the wilderness for decades. Time to recognize at least one long distinguished record of economic forecasting eh?

Maybe give the anointed a special username, such as Anointed One, The Seer, His Importance, The All-Knowing, or simply Tiresias. And a special avatar only He can use, maybe

Then in one post The Seer can simply utter for all, with One Mighty Voice, the seasonal Doom Prophecy; our "real estate agents" can voice some ignorant heresies that can be safely ignored, The Seer having spoken; and we're done within a few posts. I nominate midas!

[ExpatOilWorker]

Demise of Pattaya ? No just making some objective observations on the changing situation in Pattaya. Sure there is alot of construction and new development as you note above. But the current subject of a number of new posts is questioning the sustainability of this oversupply in a field of a decreasing demand from foreigners. In particular my above post is just one example that agrees with many other first hand examples regarding business closings

Get real. --- Approximately 6,675 units were completed and registered in 2015. • The number of new condominium units registered in 2015 is the highest in Pattaya history. • More than 30,000 condominium units are still under construction and expected to be completed in 2016 -2017.

http://www.colliers.com/-/media/files/apac/thailand/market-reports/pattaya%202h%202015-eng.pdf

how can anyone put a positive spin on such a gigantic oversupply?

who in the hell is going to buy more than 30,000 condos?

The average Thais are already up to their necks in personal debt.

and from the report " Demand in the Pattaya condominium market has still not recovered "

You can probably add another 20,000 units to that equation from Hua Hin and the clouds are really gathering for a stormy future in the real estate sector. The Energy, a real estate project around Cha Am is completing 6,000 units.

[Bangkokazy]

In recent years, there have been 100 per cent increase with charter tourists

It is not this that beckons the adults and wealthy customers to charter destinations. They are much more demanding. They will have good hotels, and there must be opportunities for other activities and experiences. Golf, spa, excursions, cultural experiences are the key words.

[Berty100]

Demise of Pattaya ? No just making some objective observations on the changing situation in Pattaya. Sure there is alot of construction and new development as you note above. But the current subject of a number of new posts is questioning the sustainability of this oversupply in a field of a decreasing demand from foreigners. In particular my above post is just one example that agrees with many other first hand examples regarding business closings

Get real. --- Approximately 6,675 units were completed and registered in 2015. • The number of new condominium units registered in 2015 is the highest in Pattaya history. • More than 30,000 condominium units are still under construction and expected to be completed in 2016 -2017.

http://www.colliers.com/-/media/files/apac/thailand/market-reports/pattaya%202h%202015-eng.pdf

Let me correct that little mistake of your my friend.

Approximately 6,675 units were completed and registered in 2015.

Registered they are when they are sold only, so either you deflated the number of units completed, or you inflated the number of units registered.

Which one was it?

[Berty100]

Looking at your past posts you have been predicting the death of Pattaya for at least the past year. When did you post anything but the demise of Pattaya? Why would you post something like you have just changed your mind? Have you ever posted anything positive about Thailand? Honest question. I just wondered.

In the 40 years I've been coming to Pattaya I've seen a lot of changes and all of them involved Pattaya getting bigger. I've never seen it shrink. Now driving into town one sees the usual new construction everywhere. It's been that way since 1970 - something new all the time and it never gets smaller.

" Pattaya getting bigger - new construction everywhere"

that's hardly a measure of whether businesses in Pattaya are on a sound economic footing ?

it just means there will be even more people caught with their pants down during the next global economic crisis

the same phenomenon happened just before the 1997 Asian economic crisis and led to an epidemic of non-performing loans with concrete skeletons everywhere

Housing starts and building permits are both considered leading indicators,

A leading indicator is a measurable economic factor that changes before the economy starts to follow a particular pattern or trend. Leading indicators are used to predict changes in the economy

http://www.investopedia.com/university/releases/housingstarts.asp

Housing starts were undoubtedly leading indicators in 1997 in Thailand and in 2007 in the US, unfortunately they lead the wrong direction.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Berty100