My bank intends to disallow international transfers

[Robert24]

Move money to another Thai bank. Done. Next?

How's is that going to fix the OPs ibanking international transfer out problem?

New bank will require the same docs to approve the international transfer capability as the OP's current bank is asking for.

I'm quite sure it will resolve it. I do many transfers into Thailand and was never asked to proof anything.

[al007]

It's not just Thailand.

My (now ex.) Luxembourg bank decided recently to :- a. Refuse to accept my salary transfers from my employer in Hong Kong and b. Refused to transfer my existing funds to Thailand.

It's all about money-laundering and arse covering

Currently moved to Lloyds Offshore (Premier Account) in Isle of Man, how long before they suffer the same issues is unknown, but it's not going to get any easier.

I to use Lloyds Premier IOM, free international transfers and if you send to Bangkok bank in London for onward transmission to Bank bangkok , no intermediary charges, no monthly charges if bal stay at £2500

Good while it lasts, forgot also included annual travel ins as 71 good benefit

ANY one know good Singapore bank so far all very expensive

[chiang mai]

It seems as though SCB is asking you for proof of the source of your funds, if you can provide them with copies of your work permit in Thailand, if the money you have was earned here, that will suffice.

If the money in your account was earned overseas, provide them with copies of the paperwork (FET) showing the money was transferred into Thailand from overseas, in which case you wont have a problem.

Yes, it seems that one has to be working in Thailand to be allowed the international transfer facility. So they are asking for proof of Thai based income. I can't do that as I am working in the Philippines. I can only place a nominal amount into Philippines bank as I am an expat with an offshore salary structure. So I have to put my money somewhere.

You don't have to be working here, I'm retired and I have large sums here but I can prove that al the money came into Thailand from overseas because I kept the paperwork (FET's) hence I have no problems sending that money out again (which I do from time to time).

Sorry but what are FET's??

Foreign Exchange Transaction certificates/receipts, the piece of paper you receive when you exchange foreign cuyrrency.

[Baerboxer]

It seems as though SCB is asking you for proof of the source of your funds, if you can provide them with copies of your work permit in Thailand, if the money you have was earned here, that will suffice.

If the money in your account was earned overseas, provide them with copies of the paperwork (FET) showing the money was transferred into Thailand from overseas, in which case you wont have a problem.

Yes, it seems that one has to be working in Thailand to be allowed the international transfer facility. So they are asking for proof of Thai based income. I can't do that as I am working in the Philippines. I can only place a nominal amount into Philippines bank as I am an expat with an offshore salary structure. So I have to put my money somewhere.

I'm a bit confused mate, so sorry if I've misunderstood.

Is your employer a Thai organization?

Are you married to a Thai or have Thai children?

Where is your current tax residency?

On what basis do you enter / stay in Thailand i.e. visa, extension justification.

Just trying to get a clear picture. Thai banks, AFAIK, don't regard themselves as providing an off shore service. On what basis do you justify having an account in Thailand? Also, do you complete a Thai tax return.

All banks are becoming much more nervous of money laundering and tax evasion. I spent a considerable time over the last couple of years filling in forms for my offshore bank proving my identity and source of income and wealth. Absolutely devoid of all common sense and full of idiotic requests. Now they're claiming I'm a UK resident for tax purposes even though I haven't been for several years. and even though HMRC say I'm not. Low skilled people, paid low wages, with low training to tick boxes or cross them. Now it's cover your arse rather than know your customer and understand customer nuances.

Good luck, but anyone who falls out of the bog standard, can tick all the boxes, seems no longer to be a welcome customer by most banks.

[Simons3]

Not sure if anyone mentioned it in an earlier post, but Transferwise is not an international transfer, takes about 5 days to complete the transaction , I deposit money in a local US account, then once cleared they deposit money from a local Thai bank, good exchange rate as well, was getting 35.7 baht to the US dollar last week, I can even do a direct transfer from their webpage up to $5000 per day. Haven't been using it very long but nothing but good to say about it so far. It's also looks like a good way to get you're Baht out of country too.

Cheers

[eskatonia]

Yep, you're right. The Australian government openly allows the option to become a non-resident (for taxation purposes) so it is a quite legitimate tax minimization/avoidance strategy and an option that many long term Aussie expats adopt. However, as a penalty, you lose certain privileges back there (such as access to free medical care and the tax free income threshold) And they watch you like a hawk, if you were to buy an investment property back there or move money into a bank there for example, they can claim that you were never a true non-resident and potentially go after you for your earnings abroad.

I'm not sure where you are getting this from. I'm also an Australian working in Thailand, non resident for tax purposes. I've never heard you can't transfer money into Australia, the key test is that you have "set up a permanent residence" outside Australia. In case of issues send them copies of your passport exit / entrance stamps and a lease agreement outside Australia, keep your boarding passes as additional evidence. I had to do this when I returned from working in the UK and transferred money back to Australia, I had to prove non-residence to show I had already paid tax in the UK on the money I sent back.

As a non-resident you can certainly buy investment property in Australia, they can ask you to show additional proof of your non-resident status but just owning an investment property would not be enough for them to declare you a resident. Here is the ATO's page on non-residency.

https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/International-tax-for-individuals/Work-out-your-tax-residency/

However if you're trying to claim you're not a tax resident ANYWHERE, that's when they'll hound you. Sounds like that could be the case in your situation, you're working in the Phillippines but not paying tax there as a resident? I'm absolutely not an accountant or tax lawyer but if that is the case then I suggest you need to set up a plausible residence somewhere in one of the countries you frequent. Otherwise yeah the ATO will try and say "ok you're not a tax resident anywhere so by default since you're an Australian citizen, you're an Australian tax resident"

Edited May 30, 2016 by eskatonia

[Pib]

Move money to another Thai bank. Done. Next?

How's is that going to fix the OPs ibanking international transfer out problem?

New bank will require the same docs to approve the international transfer capability as the OP's current bank is asking for.

I'm quite sure it will resolve it. I do many transfers into Thailand and was never asked to proof anything.

The OP is regarding transfers out via ibanking.

[hoffy66]

When you've taken it out of Thailand where have you moved it to? Why not move it there in the first instance without it going to Thailand first? Why would you want large amounts of money in a Thai bank anyway?

Well to be honest, I don't transfer too much really. Just sometimes small amounts to my kids or parents in Australia, otherwise it is largely untouched. I was just letting it build up and on one of my trips back I was going to use some of it to buy a condo around my Naklua base.

I suppose I am just concerned about losing the ability to transfer it. It is too much to keep it under a mattress as someone else suggested.

I am also going to buy a property in Australia eventually and I had intended some of this money would go towards that.

I can't send it to my account in Australia as I am a declared non-resident and the government may remove this status if I start depositing funds over there. That would be a financial disaster for me as Australian taxation laws/rates are onerous.

Seems I'm stuck.......will have to look for another option.

And how do you think you are going to buy property in aussie?? i can assure you, that you will need to satisfy aussie taxation as to how you come by that money in other words, a paper trail.

[Guest]

What would happen if you simply open a PayPal account, and send yourself requests for payments?

isn't this hoe a billion a day flies all over Amazon Land?

[Wasa]

Yep, you're right. The Australian government openly allows the option to become a non-resident (for taxation purposes) so it is a quite legitimate tax minimization/avoidance strategy and an option that many long term Aussie expats adopt. However, as a penalty, you lose certain privileges back there (such as access to free medical care and the tax free income threshold) And they watch you like a hawk, if you were to buy an investment property back there or move money into a bank there for example, they can claim that you were never a true non-resident and potentially go after you for your earnings abroad.

I'm not sure where you are getting this from. I'm also an Australian working in Thailand, non resident for tax purposes. I've never heard you can't transfer money into Australia, the key test is that you have "set up a permanent residence" outside Australia. In case of issues send them copies of your passport exit / entrance stamps and a lease agreement outside Australia, keep your boarding passes as additional evidence. I had to do this when I returned from working in the UK and transferred money back to Australia, I had to prove non-residence to show I had already paid tax in the UK on the money I sent back.

As a non-resident you can certainly buy investment property in Australia, they can ask you to show additional proof of your non-resident status but just owning an investment property would not be enough for them to declare you a resident. Here is the ATO's page on non-residency.

https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/International-tax-for-individuals/Work-out-your-tax-residency/

However if you're trying to claim you're not a tax resident ANYWHERE, that's when they'll hound you. Sounds like that could be the case in your situation, you're working in the Phillippines but not paying tax there as a resident? I'm absolutely not an accountant or tax lawyer but if that is the case then I suggest you need to set up a plausible residence somewhere in one of the countries you frequent. Otherwise yeah the ATO will try and say "ok you're not a tax resident anywhere so by default since you're an Australian citizen, you're an Australian tax resident"

Yep, I am a tax resident in the Philippines and do pay tax here. Although as a non-resident the ATO will not know that and are not really interested in it either. As long as you pass the non-residency test they do not even request evidence of overseas earnings.

I suspect my accountant may be overly cautious, he has warned me several times to be careful moving money back (regularly) to or buying investment property in Australia. Especially so if you return there and then move into that property. Apparently this demonstrates social ties and an intent to have always intended to live in Australia?? He has told me that they (ATO) have gone after lots of people.....even one bloke who stated on his immigration card on one trip to Australia that "he was an Australian citizen returning to Australia" even though he was just going back to see family briefly. They took him to court on that, you can look that case up on the net. So now when I enter Australia I mark my card as a visitor entering Australia......

But after all that he did say what you have said above......that it is possible to buy investment property as a non-resident. He said that if they question it you can justify it by saying its a market you know and that investment in the overseas country you're living in is not safe.

I'm confused! I guess I just don't want to end up in any lengthy court battles with the ATO.

[williamgeorgeallen]

i have been working in thailand for several years and i have a couple questions similar to this if someone can help me. i am living here on a O visa as i have half thai kids but no longer work. i will relocate to nz in a few years and will need to move some cash back with me.

first, can i show photo copies of my old work permit to prove where the funds came from?

second, can i use an ATM card to simply withdraw funds from my thai bank account when i am back in nz?

[chiang mai]

In thinking about this issue further I guess don't really understand the problem because I don't see why there would be one.

Thai banks offer non-resident bank accounts and always have, there is therefore no requirement for the holder of the account to be resident in Thailand to hold money here.

If the OP lives and works in the P.I., as long as he isn't working for Abu Sayef and based in Mindano (that was a joke), there should be no problems with him declaring his true circumstances to the Thai bank and them having no difficulty with that.

I think the Thai bank has probably sent out a standard form letter without really looking at the OP's circumstances, perhaps they have on his record that he is Thai or is working here, the latter seeming to be very likely. OP: give them a call and ask them what's appropriate and remind them you are non-resident.

[eskatonia]

I suspect my accountant may be overly cautious, he has warned me several times to be careful moving money back (regularly) to or buying investment property in Australia. Especially so if you return there and then move into that property. Apparently this demonstrates social ties and an intent to have always intended to live in Australia?? He has told me that they (ATO) have gone after lots of people.....

Sounds very odd to me, if you work overseas for four or five years and intend to move back to Australia eventually you're not a tax resident for those years, even if you always know you're coming back. In a worse case scenario you may have to show proof that you've paid tax overseas in a country that Australia has a tax treaty with (They do with the Philippines). The fact that you're a tax resident of the Philippines should be the end of the matter. When I moved back from the UK and the ATO queried me on money coming into the country I just sent them a copy of my lease in London and flight Itineraries, they accepted that as proof of my non residence when the money was earnt.

[Dan5]

It's not just Thailand.

My (now ex.) Luxembourg bank decided recently to :- a. Refuse to accept my salary transfers from my employer in Hong Kong and b. Refused to transfer my existing funds to Thailand.

It's all about money-laundering and arse covering

Currently moved to Lloyds Offshore (Premier Account) in Isle of Man, how long before they suffer the same issues is unknown, but it's not going to get any easier.

Buy gold and stuff it under your mattress. It will always be worth something even if you listen to Harry Dent who talks $750 an ounce. Paper money is loosing value constantly. You can go in and buy gold for cash no passport nothing. The money disappears off of the radar screen. Its the last great storage for wealth.If you can buy land do that land never looses its value same as gold. With paper money always keep a wheel barrow handy.

Wow! An inflation hawk when the big danger today is deflation. Not to mention gold is always the worst possible long term investment.

[Estrada]

You can use Citibank Thailand and access your account at Westpac branches in Australia. ATM card can be used at any Westpac Bank ATM free. Global instant transfers are available to and from Australia, UK and a host of other countries, look at there Website. I get some of my pension payments from the UK via Citibank UK and my State Pension via my account at Bangkok Bank London.

Main problem is AMLO requirements. Some banks do not want to know American customers due to the excessive reporting paperwork which now includes the IRS. There is a limit as to what you can transfer without having to submit a form. I had GBP14,000 sent to my BBL account in Thailand whilst I was in Libya and the bank wanted to send the transfer back if I could not visit the head office within 5 days. Fortunately I pulled a few string and they kept the money on ice until my next return home.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Estrada

[Dan5]

It seems as though SCB is asking you for proof of the source of your funds, if you can provide them with copies of your work permit in Thailand, if the money you have was earned here, that will suffice.

If the money in your account was earned overseas, provide them with copies of the paperwork (FET) showing the money was transferred into Thailand from overseas, in which case you wont have a problem.

Yes, it seems that one has to be working in Thailand to be allowed the international transfer facility. So they are asking for proof of Thai based income. I can't do that as I am working in the Philippines. I can only place a nominal amount into Philippines bank as I am an expat with an offshore salary structure. So I have to put my money somewhere.

You don't have to be working here, I'm retired and I have large sums here but I can prove that al the money came into Thailand from overseas because I kept the paperwork (FET's) hence I have no problems sending that money out again (which I do from time to time).

There have been many posts in this forum about transferring money out of Thailand. If you can show you transferred it in, you can transfer it out. And in general with problems like this, the thing to do is talk to a manager at the bank and explain your situation. And if you don't get it resolved with the first person, talk to someone else. I'm sure you can get this resolved.

Sorry but what are FET's??

[bazza40]

Buy gold and stuff it under your mattress. It will always be worth something even if you listen to Harry Dent who talks $750 an ounce. Paper money is loosing value constantly. You can go in and buy gold for cash no passport nothing. The money disappears off of the radar screen. Its the last great storage for wealth.If you can buy land do that land never looses its value same as gold. With paper money always keep a wheel barrow handy.

Wow! An inflation hawk when the big danger today is deflation. Not to mention gold is always the worst possible long term investment.

The gold price in 1976 was USD 180 an ounce. Now USD 1200 an ounce. Plenty of capital lost elsewhere. Shares,options or CFD's, anyone? Someone who bought Kodak as a long-term investment would not agree with you. Market darlings such as Apple could be extinct in a decade.

Property may be a better investment long-term; however, gold is instantly liquid. I'll bet the citizens of Zimbabwe would like some under their mattresses. What's a prime property in the middle of Detroit worth now?

Deflation is only a danger to the economic theorists fixated on growth without any reference to social or environmental costs. Pensioners like me say bring it on, please.

Edited May 30, 2016 by bazza40

[sandyf]

In thinking about this issue further I guess don't really understand the problem because I don't see why there would be one.

Thai banks offer non-resident bank accounts and always have, there is therefore no requirement for the holder of the account to be resident in Thailand to hold money here.

If the OP lives and works in the P.I., as long as he isn't working for Abu Sayef and based in Mindano (that was a joke), there should be no problems with him declaring his true circumstances to the Thai bank and them having no difficulty with that.

I think the Thai bank has probably sent out a standard form letter without really looking at the OP's circumstances, perhaps they have on his record that he is Thai or is working here, the latter seeming to be very likely. OP: give them a call and ask them what's appropriate and remind them you are non-resident.

As you said previously it is purely a case of proving where the funds have come from. I get my pension paid directly to my Thai bank account but I have to show them my pension documents before they will allow any to be sent back to the UK.

Many seem to forget that Thailand operates capital controls and is not quite the same as other countries. Easy to bring money in but once it is in the bank as Thai baht can be like pulling teeth to get it back out of the country.

Your comment regarding accounts for non residents is certainly valid and it may be that certain types of account may be exempt from the standard BOT currency regulations.

[sandyf]

It seems as though SCB is asking you for proof of the source of your funds, if you can provide them with copies of your work permit in Thailand, if the money you have was earned here, that will suffice.

If the money in your account was earned overseas, provide them with copies of the paperwork (FET) showing the money was transferred into Thailand from overseas, in which case you wont have a problem.

Yes, it seems that one has to be working in Thailand to be allowed the international transfer facility. So they are asking for proof of Thai based income. I can't do that as I am working in the Philippines. I can only place a nominal amount into Philippines bank as I am an expat with an offshore salary structure. So I have to put my money somewhere.

You should look into a multiple currency account here in Thailand, most banks offer accounts with about 6 of the major currencies. If the funds have never been converted to Thai baht then there is no restriction on repatriation.

Whatever currency you hold can be converted as required.

[spambot]

This is probably the case - That not all information has been actually provided to you by your bank.

Under their banking license they can not actually stop you making international transfers for situations where the funds have been transferred there in from an international in the first place and assuming you have the correct documentation to prove that the funds arrived into your account this way you will have no problem. Hence have a conversation with your bank (with the right department that understands the actual situation regarding International transfers)

I remember having a long conversation with my Bank in their overseas section of Kasikorn Bank and it took quite some time to understand the situation, but eventually I realised that I should keep the documents that are issued with every international transfer into the bank - they are called an FET (as pointed out by a number of people already on this thread). Then when you use this documentation in your transfer request you can move the same amount of funds that you have covered by the FETs.

To get these documents for each transfer you must request them from the bank as they will not automatically issue them, but you can successfully request these any time within the same financial year. However if you have fund deposits prior to the year you are interested dont worry since you can then request back years to be taken into account for the transfer out - only this way you do not get the issued paperwork and this information takes a little longer and uses a different process.

Also and importantly these restrictions for transfer of funds are only applicable for amounts above a certain size (each bank is different) and the indication at the time given to me was vague since it was at the judgement made by each branch manager however indications was it was OK for about 50k per transfer. You can get more than this amount transferred as long as you supply an invoice for the reason for the transfer into a foreign bank as payment. Hence if you bought a motorbike in Australia for 200K the invoice from the seller would be sufficient to release the International transfer.

Outside of this - simply attach a Papal account to your Thai account and make personal transfers to any other International bank that you have another Paypal account attached for example Australia if that's where you wanted the transfer. This method of Paypal transfer is not restricted in the same way as International transfers going directly to an overseas bank.

[jippytum]

It seems as though SCB is asking you for proof of the source of your funds, if you can provide them with copies of your work permit in Thailand, if the money you have was earned here, that will suffice.

If the money in your account was earned overseas, provide them with copies of the paperwork (FET) showing the money was transferred into Thailand from overseas, in which case you wont have a problem.

This information is correct .The rules from SCB are applicable to direct online transfers activated by the account holder . If transaction is carried out in person at the foreign currency desk of the bank and the account holder is able to provide the F.E.T certificate and work details the transfer will succeed.

[eskatonia]

Outside of this - simply attach a Papal account to your Thai account and make personal transfers to any other International bank that you have another Paypal account attached for example Australia if that's where you wanted the transfer. This method of Paypal transfer is not restricted in the same way as International transfers going directly to an overseas bank.

This is a terrible idea if you are doing a currency conversion and it's more than a few hundred dollars. PayPal's conversion rates are very bad, they take a big cut of each transfer done this way. And since it's unlikely the OP has a Australian bank account in Thai baht, there would be such a conversion.

[ChoakMyDee]

To the OP, I live in Thailand but I have an account in Singapore that I keep most of my money, it's all legal, I had to show the bank proof my home address etc. It doesn't matter to them where you live, you just have to prove it. I have an account in Thailand too but keep a small amount there. I use the Singapore account to move money around.

[brucegoniners]

You can thank the U.S. government for imposing such strict guidelines on banks all throughout the world for this kind of rule.

Banks now have added layer upon layer of rules for everyone, including non U.S. citizens.

[Bangkok Barry]

I have an HSBC account in the UK from when I lived there 25 years ago. Although I would not be allowed to open an account now with a Thai address, the bank is apparently okay with having my Thai address for correspondence (although in reality everything is conducted on-line). Grandfathering is the term, I guess.

To address the OPs subject more directly, you don't have to do bank-to-bank transfers. I have a Thai account and transfer money into it using TransferWise, in my case to pay lower fees. They in effect act as a middle man. Transfer money from A to them and they forward in the chosen currency to B. The facility doesn't apply to all countries so that might not any use to the OP, but there might be a company that can deal with Thailand and/or the Philippines.

[Wasa]

It seems as though SCB is asking you for proof of the source of your funds, if you can provide them with copies of your work permit in Thailand, if the money you have was earned here, that will suffice.

If the money in your account was earned overseas, provide them with copies of the paperwork (FET) showing the money was transferred into Thailand from overseas, in which case you wont have a problem.

Yes, it seems that one has to be working in Thailand to be allowed the international transfer facility. So they are asking for proof of Thai based income. I can't do that as I am working in the Philippines. I can only place a nominal amount into Philippines bank as I am an expat with an offshore salary structure. So I have to put my money somewhere.

You should look into a multiple currency account here in Thailand, most banks offer accounts with about 6 of the major currencies. If the funds have never been converted to Thai baht then there is no restriction on repatriation.

Whatever currency you hold can be converted as required.

Interesting. I deposit USD into the SCB. They convert to Baht on the day. Can I request them to not convert it, instead hold it in USD?

The problem with repatriation is that unless I can demonstrate salary slips from a Thai employer, they are going to discontinue the international transfer facility. It appears to be non-negotiable.

[Wasa]

I have an HSBC account in the UK from when I lived there 25 years ago. Although I would not be allowed to open an account now with a Thai address, the bank is apparently okay with having my Thai address for correspondence (although in reality everything is conducted on-line). Grandfathering is the term, I guess.

To address the OPs subject more directly, you don't have to do bank-to-bank transfers. I have a Thai account and transfer money into it using TransferWise, in my case to pay lower fees. They in effect act as a middle man. Transfer money from A to them and they forward in the chosen currency to B. The facility doesn't apply to all countries so that might not any use to the OP, but there might be a company that can deal with Thailand and/or the Philippines.

Thanks for the info. Just one question, you talk about using TransferWise to send money into a Thai bank. My concern is getting it back out again after they discontinue my international transfer facility. Can I use TransferWise to move money out of an SCB account back to Australia for example?

[Wasa]

To the OP, I live in Thailand but I have an account in Singapore that I keep most of my money, it's all legal, I had to show the bank proof my home address etc. It doesn't matter to them where you live, you just have to prove it. I have an account in Thailand too but keep a small amount there. I use the Singapore account to move money around.

Thanks for that. I am now investigating opening a Hong Kong account, as HK seems to be the flexible with allowing bank accounts for people who don't actually live in the country.

[Wasa]

It seems as though SCB is asking you for proof of the source of your funds, if you can provide them with copies of your work permit in Thailand, if the money you have was earned here, that will suffice.

If the money in your account was earned overseas, provide them with copies of the paperwork (FET) showing the money was transferred into Thailand from overseas, in which case you wont have a problem.

This information is correct .The rules from SCB are applicable to direct online transfers activated by the account holder . If transaction is carried out in person at the foreign currency desk of the bank and the account holder is able to provide the F.E.T certificate and work details the transfer will succeed.

Interesting information and I understand it. reassuring also, as it means at least I can transfer my money when the times comes.......only downside is that this idea means I would have to be physically present at the bank in Thailand to do so.

[Wasa]

Outside of this - simply attach a Papal account to your Thai account and make personal transfers to any other International bank that you have another Paypal account attached for example Australia if that's where you wanted the transfer. This method of Paypal transfer is not restricted in the same way as International transfers going directly to an overseas bank.

This is a terrible idea if you are doing a currency conversion and it's more than a few hundred dollars. PayPal's conversion rates are very bad, they take a big cut of each transfer done this way. And since it's unlikely the OP has a Australian bank account in Thai baht, there would be such a conversion.

Terrible idea but maybe a last resort if all else fails?