My bank intends to disallow international transfers

[Wasa]

Move money to another Thai bank. Done. Next?

How's is that going to fix the OPs ibanking international transfer out problem?

New bank will require the same docs to approve the international transfer capability as the OP's current bank is asking for.

I'm quite sure it will resolve it. I do many transfers into Thailand and was never asked to proof anything.

Yep. But I want to transfer out.......

[chiang mai]

It seems as though SCB is asking you for proof of the source of your funds, if you can provide them with copies of your work permit in Thailand, if the money you have was earned here, that will suffice.

If the money in your account was earned overseas, provide them with copies of the paperwork (FET) showing the money was transferred into Thailand from overseas, in which case you wont have a problem.

Yes, it seems that one has to be working in Thailand to be allowed the international transfer facility. So they are asking for proof of Thai based income. I can't do that as I am working in the Philippines. I can only place a nominal amount into Philippines bank as I am an expat with an offshore salary structure. So I have to put my money somewhere.

You should look into a multiple currency account here in Thailand, most banks offer accounts with about 6 of the major currencies. If the funds have never been converted to Thai baht then there is no restriction on repatriation.

Whatever currency you hold can be converted as required.

Interesting. I deposit USD into the SCB. They convert to Baht on the day. Can I request them to not convert it, instead hold it in USD?

The problem with repatriation is that unless I can demonstrate salary slips from a Thai employer, they are going to discontinue the international transfer facility. It appears to be non-negotiable.

Yes you can hold your funds in USD or any one of a number of other foreign currencies. Be aware however that unless you change the funds into Thai Baht (at the very competitive TT rate) you will be charged a fee in lieu of commission, when you withdraw or transfer that foreign currency, you'll need to see if it's cost effective for you to do that.

[eskatonia]

Terrible idea but maybe a last resort if all else fails?

Use Transferwise as others have said, it appears as a local transaction to SCB, you'll save a lot of money over using PayPal.

[Wasa]

Buy gold and stuff it under your mattress. It will always be worth something even if you listen to Harry Dent who talks $750 an ounce. Paper money is loosing value constantly. You can go in and buy gold for cash no passport nothing. The money disappears off of the radar screen. Its the last great storage for wealth.If you can buy land do that land never looses its value same as gold. With paper money always keep a wheel barrow handy.

Wow! An inflation hawk when the big danger today is deflation. Not to mention gold is always the worst possible long term investment.

The gold price in 1976 was USD 180 an ounce. Now USD 1200 an ounce. Plenty of capital lost elsewhere. Shares,options or CFD's, anyone? Someone who bought Kodak as a long-term investment would not agree with you. Market darlings such as Apple could be extinct in a decade.

Property may be a better investment long-term; however, gold is instantly liquid. I'll bet the citizens of Zimbabwe would like some under their mattresses. What's a prime property in the middle of Detroit worth now?

Deflation is only a danger to the economic theorists fixated on growth without any reference to social or environmental costs. Pensioners like me say bring it on, please.

Very impressive reasoning and if one thinks about it, probably quite true. After a few post war decades of prosperity and relative peace, we seem to be entering into an era of great uncertainty & change on many fronts: climate change, the oil crisis, ISIS & other radical religious groups, political unrest around the world, growing inequality in developed economies, China creating land in the South China seas, the rise of robots (I saw a news clip the other day saying up to 35% of all current day jobs will be lost to robots in the next two decades) antibiotic resistant viruses, etc. etc.

The biggest problem for me is I don't have a long term stable base where I could safely hold gold, unless I deposited it in a bank safe box.

And on top of that if you try and take gold back into Australia beyond I think $AUD900 in value they will charge you duties on it

It has to be pure 24k in ingot form to get it in duty free.

[Wasa]

It's not just Thailand.

My (now ex.) Luxembourg bank decided recently to :- a. Refuse to accept my salary transfers from my employer in Hong Kong and b. Refused to transfer my existing funds to Thailand.

It's all about money-laundering and arse covering

Currently moved to Lloyds Offshore (Premier Account) in Isle of Man, how long before they suffer the same issues is unknown, but it's not going to get any easier.

Sounds interesting, I'm going to investigate that facility.

[Wasa]

Get an AUD Citibank account in Singapore, you can move it any where then.

I will investigate this.

[DrDave]

I have an HSBC account in the UK from when I lived there 25 years ago. Although I would not be allowed to open an account now with a Thai address, the bank is apparently okay with having my Thai address for correspondence (although in reality everything is conducted on-line). Grandfathering is the term, I guess.

To address the OPs subject more directly, you don't have to do bank-to-bank transfers. I have a Thai account and transfer money into it using TransferWise, in my case to pay lower fees. They in effect act as a middle man. Transfer money from A to them and they forward in the chosen currency to B. The facility doesn't apply to all countries so that might not any use to the OP, but there might be a company that can deal with Thailand and/or the Philippines.

Thanks for the info. Just one question, you talk about using TransferWise to send money into a Thai bank. My concern is getting it back out again after they discontinue my international transfer facility. Can I use TransferWise to move money out of an SCB account back to Australia for example?

I just looked at the Transferwise website. While easy to send money into Thailand deposited as Thai Baht into your Thai account, it appears that you cannot transfer Thai Baht out from Thailand.

One thing that looks interesting though (and I didn't do any further checking) is that it appears that you can fund your "outgoing" transfer with a credit card. I wonder if you could use a Thai credit card linked to your Thai bank account to initiate the transfer, converting THB to USD, AUD or GBP via the credit card processing?

Edited May 30, 2016 by DrDave

[ageless1]

Buy gold and stuff it under your mattress. It will always be worth something even if you listen to Harry Dent who talks $750 an ounce. Paper money is loosing value constantly. You can go in and buy gold for cash no passport nothing. The money disappears off of the radar screen. Its the last great storage for wealth.If you can buy land do that land never looses its value same as gold. With paper money always keep a wheel barrow handy.

Wow! An inflation hawk when the big danger today is deflation. Not to mention gold is always the worst possible long term investment.

The gold price in 1976 was USD 180 an ounce. Now USD 1200 an ounce. Plenty of capital lost elsewhere. Shares,options or CFD's, anyone? Someone who bought Kodak as a long-term investment would not agree with you. Market darlings such as Apple could be extinct in a decade.

Property may be a better investment long-term; however, gold is instantly liquid. I'll bet the citizens of Zimbabwe would like some under their mattresses. What's a prime property in the middle of Detroit worth now?

Deflation is only a danger to the economic theorists fixated on growth without any reference to social or environmental costs. Pensioners like me say bring it on, please.

Very impressive reasoning and if one thinks about it, probably quite true. After a few post war decades of prosperity and relative peace, we seem to be entering into an era of great uncertainty & change on many fronts: climate change, the oil crisis, ISIS & other radical religious groups, political unrest around the world, growing inequality in developed economies, China creating land in the South China seas, the rise of robots (I saw a news clip the other day saying up to 35% of all current day jobs will be lost to robots in the next two decades) antibiotic resistant viruses, etc. etc.

The biggest problem for me is I don't have a long term stable base where I could safely hold gold, unless I deposited it in a bank safe box.

And on top of that if you try and take gold back into Australia beyond I think $AUD900 in value they will charge you duties on it

It has to be pure 24k in ingot form to get it in duty free.

Your plan of buying your condo with the money you have in Thailand may be the best option if you purchase wisely and may make some money for you in rent if you aren't there often to live in it yourself. If you only shift small amounts of money to Australia occasionally, a number of the suggestions will work (eg PayPal transfers or real gold in person when you visit the country) If you're saving a barrow load of taxes with your current set up I can't see the problem in paying a bit to get it back into Australia? You'd still be ahead overall surely?

[ozyjon]

This is just the beginning of the end,

bank gouging on a universal scale

many banks worldwide will start to

feel the slowing down of world economies

and start to apply pressure or knee jerk

reactions to their declining revenues of

years past coupled with the Thai junta

trying to keep a grip on a failing economy

it can only mean more confusion not

only in Thailand but world wide,, start

buying silver and gold bullion to hedge a

financial collapse world wide, what does

the crystal ball predict ? tRumP

[Wasa]

OP, you should look into getting a Hong Kong bank account, even better set up a Hong Kong company and instead of getting a salary send invoices from your Hong Kong company for your work. Hong Kong has zero company tax on income earned outside Hong Kong. Singapore is similar but I don't know as much about it. Will cost about $1000 US to get a Hong Kong company set up with bank account, google search it, many many consultants can do this for you.

Ironically I had just started doing this when I got the SCB letter. I have been introduced through a very good business friend to a consultant in this area.

This consultant has told me that personal bank accounts in Hong Kong are very difficult to get. Most of his clients set up Hong Kong companies with bank accounts.

I think this is what I am going to do. Fees are a little higher than you quoted, as it includes a HK bank account. But overall not too bad.

[djlest]

Stop using SCB Easy net to do it... walk into the bank looking smart and do it in person - 700, 000 per time....

[sandyf]

It seems as though SCB is asking you for proof of the source of your funds, if you can provide them with copies of your work permit in Thailand, if the money you have was earned here, that will suffice.

If the money in your account was earned overseas, provide them with copies of the paperwork (FET) showing the money was transferred into Thailand from overseas, in which case you wont have a problem.

Yes, it seems that one has to be working in Thailand to be allowed the international transfer facility. So they are asking for proof of Thai based income. I can't do that as I am working in the Philippines. I can only place a nominal amount into Philippines bank as I am an expat with an offshore salary structure. So I have to put my money somewhere.

You should look into a multiple currency account here in Thailand, most banks offer accounts with about 6 of the major currencies. If the funds have never been converted to Thai baht then there is no restriction on repatriation.

Whatever currency you hold can be converted as required.

Interesting. I deposit USD into the SCB. They convert to Baht on the day. Can I request them to not convert it, instead hold it in USD?

The problem with repatriation is that unless I can demonstrate salary slips from a Thai employer, they are going to discontinue the international transfer facility. It appears to be non-negotiable.

Look at this type of account.

http://www.scb.co.th/en/personal-banking/deposit/foreign-currency/non-resident

[Robert24]

Move money to another Thai bank. Done. Next?

How's is that going to fix the OPs ibanking international transfer out problem?

New bank will require the same docs to approve the international transfer capability as the OP's current bank is asking for.

I'm quite sure it will resolve it. I do many transfers into Thailand and was never asked to proof anything.

Yep. But I want to transfer out.......

sorry misread your post. Transfer out is difficult due to BoT regulations. Cash might be a good option, take it out in cash. If you want to avoid airports to leave, take a land crossing and travel onwards from there.

[chainarong]

I wonder how this works if I make profits on the Thai stock market and want to send them to Europe to let's say buy a villa in Spain. I guess it would suffice if I can prove that I earned these funds in Thailand via my stock broker. Does anyone know?

U earned the money in Thailand, but do U live in Thailand., Investing , wages etc you must live in Thailand, unless it is a royalty payable or patient OEM , U wont get your money out otherwise , OP has made a rod for his own back regarding the ATO, he has just found out how difficult it is to leave his country of origin , all this revolves around international money laundering act and all the countries mentioned here are signatures to it, including HK and Singapore

Edited June 1, 2016 by chainarong

[chainarong]

Don't know if this will help OP but I did and still do o'sea's work ,all I had to do to satisfy the ATO was take my name off the electoral roll and my ANZ account states my address overseas and I have been investigated in 2011 while in HK , but you must have a stable residence overseas and not tour around and only go back to OZ once or twice a year, then U R not determined fly in /out.

[chiang mai]

How's is that going to fix the OPs ibanking international transfer out problem?

New bank will require the same docs to approve the international transfer capability as the OP's current bank is asking for.

I'm quite sure it will resolve it. I do many transfers into Thailand and was never asked to proof anything.

Yep. But I want to transfer out.......

sorry misread your post. Transfer out is difficult due to BoT regulations. Cash might be a good option, take it out in cash. If you want to avoid airports to leave, take a land crossing and travel onwards from there.

Nonsense, BOT rules on overseas transfers have never so relaxed as they are now, it's a simple task to transfer funds overseas, as long as you can prove the money was earned here or bought in from outside Thailand - if you acquired the money illegally then I agree it's difficult but there's no suggestion the OP did so.

[beerzy]

When you've taken it out of Thailand where have you moved it to? Why not move it there in the first instance without it going to Thailand first? Why would you want large amounts of money in a Thai bank anyway?

Well to be honest, I don't transfer too much really. Just sometimes small amounts to my kids or parents in Australia, otherwise it is largely untouched. I was just letting it build up and on one of my trips back I was going to use some of it to buy a condo around my Naklua base.

I suppose I am just concerned about losing the ability to transfer it. It is too much to keep it under a mattress as someone else suggested.

I am also going to buy a property in Australia eventually and I had intended some of this money would go towards that.

I can't send it to my account in Australia as I am a declared non-resident and the government may remove this status if I start depositing funds over there. That would be a financial disaster for me as Australian taxation laws/rates are onerous.

Seems I'm stuck.......will have to look for another option.

So I guess you are trying to avoid/minimise paying tax? You wouldn't be the first if you are! If you are having your Phillipines wages deposited into Thailand they won't want you to take it out again and will make it difficult. If it is stuck there maybe best to spend it on that condo sooner rather than later even though you won't be there much to enjoy it. Or rent it out and let it earn a bit more for you?

Yep, you're right. The Australian government openly allows the option to become a non-resident (for taxation purposes) so it is a quite legitimate tax minimization/avoidance strategy and an option that many long term Aussie expats adopt. However, as a penalty, you lose certain privileges back there (such as access to free medical care and the tax free income threshold) And they watch you like a hawk, if you were to buy an investment property back there or move money into a bank there for example, they can claim that you were never a true non-resident and potentially go after you for your earnings abroad.

Ok, you can move money back into Australia up to the tax free threshold without penalty. you keep medical so you still say you are a resident.

but what is your age? I ask this as you may lose aged pension.

[beerzy]

without reading everything is your company a Thai company or another country? very important for the response to your bank.

[zeekgarcia]

Sorry but what are FET's??

Foreign Exchange Transaction certificates/receipts, the piece of paper you receive when you exchange foreign cuyrrency.

If a person transfers money using Bangkok Bank's Ach transfer system from the UK or US are they suppose to get one one these Foreign exchange transaction certs?

Or when they go to a exchange booth and exchange money for Thai Baht?

[chiang mai]

Sorry but what are FET's??

Foreign Exchange Transaction certificates/receipts, the piece of paper you receive when you exchange foreign cuyrrency.

If a person transfers money using Bangkok Bank's Ach transfer system from the UK or US are they suppose to get one one these Foreign exchange transaction certs?

Or when they go to a exchange booth and exchange money for Thai Baht?

Every foreign currency exchange transaction anywhere generates a receipt or a record. If you do an ACH transfer you have a record of that transfer, and when the funds are received in Thailand there is also a record of it. What you need to do is go into your bank in Thailand and ask them for a receipt (or FET) of any transactions you do involving foreign currency exchange - note also that your passbook will record the transaction as a inbound foreign currency exchange.

[eskatonia]

So related question, for those working legally in Thailand what is the restrictions on transferring money you've earned here out of the country? Hypothetically if an ex-pat is earning 100K a month, 1.2 million baht a year, how much of that are they allowed to transfer overseas?

[DrDave]

Foreign Exchange Transaction certificates/receipts, the piece of paper you receive when you exchange foreign cuyrrency.

If a person transfers money using Bangkok Bank's Ach transfer system from the UK or US are they suppose to get one one these Foreign exchange transaction certs?

Or when they go to a exchange booth and exchange money for Thai Baht?

Every foreign currency exchange transaction anywhere generates a receipt or a record. If you do an ACH transfer you have a record of that transfer, and when the funds are received in Thailand there is also a record of it. What you need to do is go into your bank in Thailand and ask them for a receipt (or FET) of any transactions you do involving foreign currency exchange - note also that your passbook will record the transaction as a inbound foreign currency exchange.

I don't know if this is still the case, but years ago, an FET was issued only when the inbound transfer was 20,000 USD or more, and I believe only if the inbound wire transfer noted that it was for the purchase of a condominium.

I would be very surprised if an FET could be obtained for all inbound transfers regardless of amount and purpose. If so, it seems that people generating income illegally in Thailand could transfer money in for living expenses, spend it all, and then transfer their ill-gotten, untaxed money out. For example, if a retiree transfers in the equivalent of 100,000 THB each month for living expenses (shown as an inbound foreign exchange transaction in his bank book), and receives 50,000 baht rent each month for a rental property he owns, then he would be able to transfer out all of the rental income he received. I would think that the BoT would have procedures and rules in place to prevent situations like this.

Edited June 6, 2016 by DrDave

[Wasa]

Sorry but what are FET's??

Foreign Exchange Transaction certificates/receipts, the piece of paper you receive when you exchange foreign cuyrrency.

If a person transfers money using Bangkok Bank's Ach transfer system from the UK or US are they suppose to get one one these Foreign exchange transaction certs?

Or when they go to a exchange booth and exchange money for Thai Baht?

Every foreign currency exchange transaction anywhere generates a receipt or a record. If you do an ACH transfer you have a record of that transfer, and when the funds are received in Thailand there is also a record of it. What you need to do is go into your bank in Thailand and ask them for a receipt (or FET) of any transactions you do involving foreign currency exchange - note also that your passbook will record the transaction as a inbound foreign currency exchange.

I took my gf to act as interpreter into the local SCB Naklua Branch this morning and got nowhere with FETs etc. The manager was not interested and said I should go talk to the main branch in Harbor Mall Pattaya Klang. But it does not look promising.......the manager did not know what FETS are......when I updated my book bank it just shows my USD Philippines salary as a simple transfer deposit, the entry does not indicate anything about it coming from abroad as foreign currency.....hoping I can get these FETs at the main branch.

[chiang mai]

Foreign Exchange Transaction certificates/receipts, the piece of paper you receive when you exchange foreign cuyrrency.

If a person transfers money using Bangkok Bank's Ach transfer system from the UK or US are they suppose to get one one these Foreign exchange transaction certs?

Or when they go to a exchange booth and exchange money for Thai Baht?

Every foreign currency exchange transaction anywhere generates a receipt or a record. If you do an ACH transfer you have a record of that transfer, and when the funds are received in Thailand there is also a record of it. What you need to do is go into your bank in Thailand and ask them for a receipt (or FET) of any transactions you do involving foreign currency exchange - note also that your passbook will record the transaction as a inbound foreign currency exchange.

I took my gf to act as interpreter into the local SCB Naklua Branch this morning and got nowhere with FETs etc. The manager was not interested and said I should go talk to the main branch in Harbor Mall Pattaya Klang. But it does not look promising.......the manager did not know what FETS are......when I updated my book bank it just shows my USD Philippines salary as a simple transfer deposit, the entry does not indicate anything about it coming from abroad as foreign currency.....hoping I can get these FETs at the main branch.

Some banks code the transaction in the passbook to show it's an inbound foreign currency transaction, that will help the bank find the underlying detail. Also, foreign currency exchange is a function of the Treasury Department of a bank and there is only one, at head office. Every foreign currency exchange transaction has a Treasury deal number which is unique, hopefully between those two bits of information you can get your FET. Finally, the man at your bank said he didn't know what an FET is but I reckon he does but probably doesn't know it, if you ask him what the exchange rate was on a particular exchange and he tells you, it means he can see the FET in order to give you that information.

Edited June 6, 2016 by chiang mai

[Agent Sumo]

Easy way around all this guff

Just have your wife or girlfriend pay it into her account and get her to transfer it out of Thailand into your overseas account.

Simples

[mania]

Easy way around all this guff

Just have your wife or girlfriend pay it into her account and get her to transfer it out of Thailand into your overseas account.

Simples

List of Required Documents:

1. Thai citizens with permanent residence overseas are required to submit official evidence confirming that they are allowed to permanently settle there.
2. Thai citizens wishing to transfer funds overseas for family members or relatives permitted to permanently settle overseas are required to submit official evidence

   showing that the fund recipient is allowed to permanently settle there.

3. Thai citizens transferring funds for tuition fees of a Thai student overseas are required to submit educational evidence, e.g. confirmation letter issued by an academic institute.

Your way looks exactly like what they are trying to find..money laundering

What will girl friend say? "Yes purpose I am transferring money to a foreign account is....."

[mania]

Well to be honest, I don't transfer too much really. Just sometimes small amounts to my kids or parents in Australia, otherwise it is largely untouched.

I was just letting it build up and on one of my trips back I was going to use some of it to buy a condo around my Naklua base.

Sorry if someone already mentioned this & I did not see it but..........

Your idea to let your money pile up here & maybe later buy a condo will not work.

To buy a condo here you will need to transfer fresh money into Thailand with a notation stating the specific purpose of funds is to buy

a condo.

I know it sounds insane but trust me it is true..Even if you have enough here to buy the condo the tax/transfer office will not accept it.

I recently tested this in Chiang Mai

[Agent Sumo]

Easy way around all this guff

Just have your wife or girlfriend pay it into her account and get her to transfer it out of Thailand into your overseas account.

Simples

List of Required Documents:

1. Thai citizens with permanent residence overseas are required to submit official evidence confirming that they are allowed to permanently settle there.
2. Thai citizens wishing to transfer funds overseas for family members or relatives permitted to permanently settle overseas are required to submit official evidence

   showing that the fund recipient is allowed to permanently settle there.

3. Thai citizens transferring funds for tuition fees of a Thai student overseas are required to submit educational evidence, e.g. confirmation letter issued by an academic institute.

Your way looks exactly like what they are trying to find..money laundering

What will girl friend say? "Yes purpose I am transferring money to a foreign account is....."

You're assuming that those 3 reasons are the only ones for which a Thai might send money abroad

They're not. They might be the most common, but they're not the only ones

[chiang mai]

Easy way around all this guff

Just have your wife or girlfriend pay it into her account and get her to transfer it out of Thailand into your overseas account.

Simples

List of Required Documents:

1. Thai citizens with permanent residence overseas are required to submit official evidence confirming that they are allowed to permanently settle there.
2. Thai citizens wishing to transfer funds overseas for family members or relatives permitted to permanently settle overseas are required to submit official evidence

   showing that the fund recipient is allowed to permanently settle there.

3. Thai citizens transferring funds for tuition fees of a Thai student overseas are required to submit educational evidence, e.g. confirmation letter issued by an academic institute.

Your way looks exactly like what they are trying to find..money laundering

What will girl friend say? "Yes purpose I am transferring money to a foreign account is....."

You're assuming that those 3 reasons are the only ones for which a Thai might send money abroad

They're not. They might be the most common, but they're not the only ones

What was posted is the summary list from Bangkok Bank, here: http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/DailyBanking/TransferingFunds/TransferringOutOfThailand/Pages/OutwardFAQs.aspx

The more detailed list from BOT is here:

https://www.bot.or.th/English/FinancialMarkets/ForeignExchangeRegulations/FXRegulation/Pages/default.aspx

The two are essentially the same.

[Agent Sumo]

Easy way around all this guff

Just have your wife or girlfriend pay it into her account and get her to transfer it out of Thailand into your overseas account.

Simples

List of Required Documents:

1. Thai citizens with permanent residence overseas are required to submit official evidence confirming that they are allowed to permanently settle there.
2. Thai citizens wishing to transfer funds overseas for family members or relatives permitted to permanently settle overseas are required to submit official evidence

   showing that the fund recipient is allowed to permanently settle there.

3. Thai citizens transferring funds for tuition fees of a Thai student overseas are required to submit educational evidence, e.g. confirmation letter issued by an academic institute.

Your way looks exactly like what they are trying to find..money laundering

What will girl friend say? "Yes purpose I am transferring money to a foreign account is....."

You're assuming that those 3 reasons are the only ones for which a Thai might send money abroad

They're not. They might be the most common, but they're not the only ones

What was posted is the summary list from Bangkok Bank, here: http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/DailyBanking/TransferingFunds/TransferringOutOfThailand/Pages/OutwardFAQs.aspx

The more detailed list from BOT is here:

https://www.bot.or.th/English/FinancialMarkets/ForeignExchangeRegulations/FXRegulation/Pages/default.aspx

The two are essentially the same.

No they're not