Hi guys

An old friend who is married to a thai and resides in the south of Thailand on a non immigrant sometimes works as an english teacher in his spare time. Recently he has been advised that it is in his best interests to get a work permit but he is unable to fulfill all the criteria to obtain a work permit as a teacher. He has been advised by his local immigration office that as long as he has a work permit from a company in Thailand and pays tax he will be allowed to continue teaching part time. So his wifes family has offered him a job as a freelance graphic designer in their business in Bangkok.

My friend has then consulted a lawyer in Bangkok who after becoming aware of the facts has said that they can get him a work permit but they are asking for 20,000 bht for their services because the company that are offering employment is in BKK but he is located in another province. I think this is grossly overpriced and I wanted to check on his behalf what the procedure would be if his wifes family applied for a work permit in his name in Bangkok instead.

Thank you for any assistance you can offer

JAF

There is no possibility of your 'friend' obtaining a legal work permit on the basis of being a 'freelancer'

What is offered is illegal !

WP's are issued and linked to one specific job/employer and can only be used in the district where they are issued.

If he wants the job and the work permit offered by the family he will have to move to Bangkok.

Whenever this person works as a "teacher" he is risking arrest, fines, jail and deportation.

There is no possibility of your 'friend' obtaining a legal work permit on the basis of being a 'freelancer'

What is offered is illegal !

WP's are issued and linked to one specific job/employer and can only be used in the district where they are issued.

If he wants the job and the work permit offered by the family he will have to move to Bangkok.

Whenever this person works as a "teacher" he is risking arrest, fines, jail and deportation.

He realises that he is circumnavigating the law in this way but it must be said that many foreigners who are employed at the local schools (albeit with a work visa) also freelance as teachers outside of the school in the same private tuition school he works in. This is common knowledge in the province but it is overlooked or ignored because the province is not a popular tourist area and has a problem attracting english speaking foreigners who will teach their students. Immigration seem to be quite happy to turn a blind eye as long as he has a work permit and pays taxes.

So the question remains, how would a company in Bangkok obtain a work visa for a foreigner as their freelance graphic designer? Is a lawyer required or can the company obtain the visa on behalf of their employee for a more modest fee

Thanks

JAF

There is no possibility of your 'friend' obtaining a legal work permit on the basis of being a 'freelancer'

What is offered is illegal !

WP's are issued and linked to one specific job/employer and can only be used in the district where they are issued.

If he wants the job and the work permit offered by the family he will have to move to Bangkok.

Whenever this person works as a "teacher" he is risking arrest, fines, jail and deportation.

He realises that he is circumnavigating the law in this way but it must be said that many foreigners who are employed at the local schools (albeit with a work visa) also freelance as teachers outside of the school in the same private tuition school he works in. This is common knowledge in the province but it is overlooked or ignored because the province is not a popular tourist area and has a problem attracting english speaking foreigners who will teach their students. Immigration seem to be quite happy to turn a blind eye as long as he has a work permit and pays taxes.

So the question remains, how would a company in Bangkok obtain a work visa for a foreigner as their freelance graphic designer? Is a lawyer required or can the company obtain the visa on behalf of their employee for a more modest fee

Thanks

JAF

Sorry I know nothing about circumnavigating the law.

If the Thai relatives ask the Thai employees of the labor office I am sure they will be told (for free) exactly what is required get a work permit in Bangkok which allows "freelance" teaching in a Southern province.

There is no possibility of your 'friend' obtaining a legal work permit on the basis of being a 'freelancer'

What is offered is illegal !

WP's are issued and linked to one specific job/employer and can only be used in the district where they are issued.

If he wants the job and the work permit offered by the family he will have to move to Bangkok.

Whenever this person works as a "teacher" he is risking arrest, fines, jail and deportation.

He realises that he is circumnavigating the law in this way but it must be said that many foreigners who are employed at the local schools (albeit with a work visa) also freelance as teachers outside of the school in the same private tuition school he works in. This is common knowledge in the province but it is overlooked or ignored because the province is not a popular tourist area and has a problem attracting english speaking foreigners who will teach their students. Immigration seem to be quite happy to turn a blind eye as long as he has a work permit and pays taxes.

So the question remains, how would a company in Bangkok obtain a work visa for a foreigner as their freelance graphic designer? Is a lawyer required or can the company obtain the visa on behalf of their employee for a more modest fee

Thanks

JAF

Normally a Work Permit is only valid for the area it is issued in for use only at the listed work places of the named company(s).

So called freelance WPs are thus, to all intent and purpose, near impossible to obtain.

A Work Permit for another company/profession, issued in another province, would not ultimately protect your friend from prosecution for working illegally.

The company can do it, however theyou will need to be persistent because it can be hard work getting everything just right.

There is no possibility of your 'friend' obtaining a legal work permit on the basis of being a 'freelancer'

What is offered is illegal !

WP's are issued and linked to one specific job/employer and can only be used in the district where they are issued.

If he wants the job and the work permit offered by the family he will have to move to Bangkok.

Whenever this person works as a "teacher" he is risking arrest, fines, jail and deportation.

He realises that he is circumnavigating the law in this way but it must be said that many foreigners who are employed at the local schools (albeit with a work visa) also freelance as teachers outside of the school in the same private tuition school he works in. This is common knowledge in the province but it is overlooked or ignored because the province is not a popular tourist area and has a problem attracting english speaking foreigners who will teach their students. Immigration seem to be quite happy to turn a blind eye as long as he has a work permit and pays taxes.

So the question remains, how would a company in Bangkok obtain a work visa for a foreigner as their freelance graphic designer? Is a lawyer required or can the company obtain the visa on behalf of their employee for a more modest fee

Thanks

JAF

You may be giving immigration too much consideration here. Sure, if he is abusing his work permit and he is on an extension they could cancel this.

If i was your friend i would be more concerned with the labour office when it comes to work permits.

Its possible but cannot work from home legally. Have a look at iglu.co.th

There is no possibility of your 'friend' obtaining a legal work permit on the basis of being a 'freelancer'

What is offered is illegal !

WP's are issued and linked to one specific job/employer and can only be used in the district where they are issued.

If he wants the job and the work permit offered by the family he will have to move to Bangkok.

Whenever this person works as a "teacher" he is risking arrest, fines, jail and deportation.

He realises that he is circumnavigating the law in this way but it must be said that many foreigners who are employed at the local schools (albeit with a work visa) also freelance as teachers outside of the school in the same private tuition school he works in. This is common knowledge in the province but it is overlooked or ignored because the province is not a popular tourist area and has a problem attracting english speaking foreigners who will teach their students. Immigration seem to be quite happy to turn a blind eye as long as he has a work permit and pays taxes.

So the question remains, how would a company in Bangkok obtain a work visa for a foreigner as their freelance graphic designer? Is a lawyer required or can the company obtain the visa on behalf of their employee for a more modest fee

Thanks

JAF

Try not to refer to him as a Freelancer. I know what you mean but some people are going to see that and get confused.

He is going to be employed by the Thai company in Bangkok, but work from a different location, so he will be an employee. A freelance is someone who does not work for any one company.

That said, being employed in one capacity and doing another job on the side is technically not legal. A work permit is

However, if his teaching is purely part time, just him and a student and is not him working x days a week in a school, in a classroom, then it is possible that his local immigration won't care about him earning just a bit of extra pocket money.

To answer your question - the company in Bangkok could do everything themselves (I'm assuming they are Thai), but most people use the services of a lawyer or visa service agent simply to avoid the hassle of doing it themselves.

Work Permits are not available to foreigners in Thailand. One can be obtained if the family have a company which describes its activities as providing the services of graphic artists to other businesses. The poster will be one of those artists but will be employed by the company. Of course, they can pay him what he earns, or less, by agreement. He will be deemed to have a salary of 60,000 Baht a month.

This route is not cheap; the company must have 4 Thai employees and tax and social security payments will have to be paid on their salaries, as well as his "notional" salary. The reported charge of 20,000 Baht is not excessive, but it can be done for 15,000.

I do not believe that there is another legal way of proceeding. The poster must assess the risk of working illegally. Many do so for years and are never challenged.

Work Permits are not available to foreigners in Thailand. One can be obtained if the family have a company which describes its activities as providing the services of graphic artists to other businesses. The poster will be one of those artists but will be employed by the company. Of course, they can pay him what he earns, or less, by agreement. He will be deemed to have a salary of 60,000 Baht a month.

This route is not cheap; the company must have 4 Thai employees and tax and social security payments will have to be paid on their salaries, as well as his "notional" salary. The reported charge of 20,000 Baht is not excessive, but it can be done for 15,000.

I do not believe that there is another legal way of proceeding. The poster must assess the risk of working illegally. Many do so for years and are never challenged.

Can you explain why work permits are not available to foreigners in Thailand.

I would love to know.

Work Permits are not available to foreigners in Thailand. One can be obtained if the family have a company which describes its activities as providing the services of graphic artists to other businesses. The poster will be one of those artists but will be employed by the company. Of course, they can pay him what he earns, or less, by agreement. He will be deemed to have a salary of 60,000 Baht a month.

This route is not cheap; the company must have 4 Thai employees and tax and social security payments will have to be paid on their salaries, as well as his "notional" salary. The reported charge of 20,000 Baht is not excessive, but it can be done for 15,000.

I do not believe that there is another legal way of proceeding. The poster must assess the risk of working illegally. Many do so for years and are never challenged.

Can you explain why work permits are not available to foreigners in Thailand.

I would love to know.

So would a lot of foreigners with work permits I suspect.

There is no possibility of your 'friend' obtaining a legal work permit on the basis of being a 'freelancer'

What is offered is illegal !

WP's are issued and linked to one specific job/employer and can only be used in the district where they are issued.

If he wants the job and the work permit offered by the family he will have to move to Bangkok.

Whenever this person works as a "teacher" he is risking arrest, fines, jail and deportation.

He realises that he is circumnavigating the law in this way but it must be said that many foreigners who are employed at the local schools (albeit with a work visa) also freelance as teachers outside of the school in the same private tuition school he works in. This is common knowledge in the province but it is overlooked or ignored because the province is not a popular tourist area and has a problem attracting english speaking foreigners who will teach their students. Immigration seem to be quite happy to turn a blind eye as long as he has a work permit and pays taxes.

So the question remains, how would a company in Bangkok obtain a work visa for a foreigner as their freelance graphic designer? Is a lawyer required or can the company obtain the visa on behalf of their employee for a more modest fee

Thanks

JAF

Normally a Work Permit is only valid for the area it is issued in for use only at the listed work places of the named company(s).

So called freelance WPs are thus, to all intent and purpose, near impossible to obtain.

A Work Permit for another company/profession, issued in another province, would not ultimately protect your friend from prosecution for working illegally.

I would suggest a way around this problem in order to work from home, would be get a work permit for the BKK company. The company then open a branch office located at the WP holder's addresses and amend his contract to work for the company at the branch office.

Yes, I know it's convaluted, but I understand the business is family owned, so they might be willing to do that. Plus, as long as he appears to be doing the job detailed on the WP, that would be fine.

A reminder that advertising is strictly forbidden to non-sponsors. (Post removed)

Correct me if i am wrong,but wouldnt freelance photography come under one of the 49 reserved occupations for Thais only ?

Thanks to all the posters who have offered constructive advice. The family business employs 10 thai nationals already and they are going to apply to the labor department to employ my friend on a part time basis as a designer "situated in a different location" for a supposed salary of 20,000 to 30,000 per month. I did see another poster say that his salary would have to be around 60,000 bht per month but I am unaware of the reason why. If the salary was as high as this, what would be the amount of tax to be paid compared to the lower salary?

Once again, thank you

JAF

Thanks to all the posters who have offered constructive advice. The family business employs 10 thai nationals already and they are going to apply to the labor department to employ my friend on a part time basis as a designer "situated in a different location" for a supposed salary of 20,000 to 30,000 per month. I did see another poster say that his salary would have to be around 60,000 bht per month but I am unaware of the reason why. If the salary was as high as this, what would be the amount of tax to be paid compared to the lower salary?

Once again, thank you

JAF

Depends on nationality, but for most it's a minimum of 50k/month to qualify for a Work Permit.

Thanks to all the posters who have offered constructive advice. The family business employs 10 thai nationals already and they are going to apply to the labor department to employ my friend on a part time basis as a designer "situated in a different location" for a supposed salary of 20,000 to 30,000 per month. I did see another poster say that his salary would have to be around 60,000 bht per month but I am unaware of the reason why. If the salary was as high as this, what would be the amount of tax to be paid compared to the lower salary?

Once again, thank you

JAF

The 60k baht number was an error and confusion between obtaining a work permit and a extension based upon working. There is no minimum salary to get a work permit. There is a minimum salary to get an extension based upon working but the highest salary dependent upon nationality is 50k baht.

Since is on an extension or visa based upon marriage he does not have a minimum salary requirement.

Thanks to all the posters who have offered constructive advice. The family business employs 10 thai nationals already and they are going to apply to the labor department to employ my friend on a part time basis as a designer "situated in a different location" for a supposed salary of 20,000 to 30,000 per month. I did see another poster say that his salary would have to be around 60,000 bht per month but I am unaware of the reason why. If the salary was as high as this, what would be the amount of tax to be paid compared to the lower salary?

Once again, thank you

JAF

The 60k baht number was an error and confusion between obtaining a work permit and a extension based upon working. There is no minimum salary to get a work permit. There is a minimum salary to get an extension based upon working but the highest salary dependent upon nationality is 50k baht.

Since is on an extension or visa based upon marriage he does not have a minimum salary requirement.

Yes, I stand corrected.

Correct me if i am wrong,but wouldnt freelance photography come under one of the 49 reserved occupations for Thais only ?

The OP said freelance graphic designer, but I don't know if that's on the list of reserved occupations?

One WP I had in the past was as a website designer.

It's probably why so many people don't work

I have an english friend who married a thai and she was allowed to work after 1 year in the UK and now that they have divorced she retains her british citizenship and receives a small pension, free housing and free healthcare. She even got a free bus pass.

It begs the question why can't a man who is married to a thai, who has been visited and vetted by the local authorities in this country be allowed to support his family. In this day and age you would have thought that Thailand would have allowed the "aliens" to work without prejudice. Alas, this is not the case due to some xenophobic laws that others will choose to circumnavigate when possible.

JAF

Edited June 1, 201610 yr by JustAnotherFarang

It's probably why so many people don't work

I have an english friend who married a thai and she was allowed to work after 1 year in the UK and now that they have divorced she retains her british citizenship and receives a small pension, free housing and free healthcare. She even got a free bus pass.

It begs the question why can't a man who is married to a thai, who has been visited and vetted by the local authorities in this country be allowed to support his family. In this day and age you would have thought that Thailand would have allowed the "aliens" to work without prejudice. Alas, this is not the case due to some xenophobic laws that others will choose to circumnavigate when possible.

JAF

I very much doubt that British citizenship was obtained in one year !

There is no such thing as "free" housing in the UK so why post this nonsense ?

It's probably why so many people don't work

I have an english friend who married a thai and she was allowed to work after 1 year in the UK and now that they have divorced she retains her british citizenship and receives a small pension, free housing and free healthcare. She even got a free bus pass.

It begs the question why can't a man who is married to a thai, who has been visited and vetted by the local authorities in this country be allowed to support his family. In this day and age you would have thought that Thailand would have allowed the "aliens" to work without prejudice. Alas, this is not the case due to some xenophobic laws that others will choose to circumnavigate when possible.

JAF

I very much doubt that British citizenship was obtained in one year !

There is no such thing as "free" housing in the UK so why post this nonsense ?

Doubt away but its entirely true, why would I lie just so you can scoff nonsensically. She has british citizenship and free housing provided and paid for by the government

JAF

I don't think you can get a WP with a company that has not, if fact, hired you and is going to pay you a salary.

You will have to apply for a business visa, however there are lots of rules about that as well, including putting 2M bhat in the bank and hiring 3 Thais. A few years ago there was some discussion about "individual contributor" businesses being able to avoid some of the requirements.

The other problem you have is that there is a large, well established Thai graphic design community and you would be directly competing with them. This is a no no.

Your best bet is to get a job with one of these firms specializing in helping with Farang based clients.

Best of luck

I don't think you can get a WP with a company that has not, if fact, hired you and is going to pay you a salary.

You will have to apply for a business visa, however there are lots of rules about that as well, including putting 2M bhat in the bank and hiring 3 Thais. A few years ago there was some discussion about "individual contributor" businesses being able to avoid some of the requirements.

The other problem you have is that there is a large, well established Thai graphic design community and you would be directly competing with them. This is a no no.

Your best bet is to get a job with one of these firms specializing in helping with Farang based clients.

Best of luck

The OP does not need a non-b visa since he has a non-o visa or extension of stay based upon marriage to a Thai.

The two million baht registered capital does not have to be in the bank. Also since he is married to a Thai only one million is needed. Normally it is 4 Thai employees that is required but if married to a Thai only 2 are required at some work permit offices.

I'm still confused with this post, especially with the advice your friend was given by immigration.

It is my understanding that a work permit is issued for one particular job at one specific location. Different addresses can be added to the work permit (on page 22), but that is related to the job description on the work permit. As he seems to be planning to do another job (teaching), in another provence, this adds to my confusion.

I do not see how a work permit issued for a graphic designer can possibly help keep him in legal bounds in a teaching job. You state that currently he cannot fulfill the criteria to obtain a WP as a teacher; how will his proposed plan help with that?

He already has an extension of stay through being married to a Thai, unless he is changing the reason for the extension to work, why the interest from immigration in the first place?

WP's aren't issued by immigration. As said earlier, it is the labour office your friend should be more concerned about, as he is about to break labour laws by working outside the limitations of his issued WP.

I am certainly no expert, but that is the way your friend's story comes to me. Happy to be corrected on this.

I have told my friend about the advice that I have gathered here and he has decided not to proceed with the application as it is just a scam from the lawyer to obtain 20,000 bht for something that offers him no protection whatsoever. He is now looking into a business visa/permit instead

Thanks to all those who have offered constructive advice

JAF

I have told my friend about the advice that I have gathered here and he has decided not to proceed with the application as it is just a scam from the lawyer to obtain 20,000 bht for something that offers him no protection whatsoever. He is now looking into a business visa/permit instead

Thanks to all those who have offered constructive advice

JAF

Best of luck, this year particularly they have been giving myself and many other "foreign owned" businesses I know the runaround like never before to get extensions. Setting up the company/visa/work permit wasn't too hard initially, but getting it renewed each year is becoming more fraught with continual back and forth obtaining new things each time you give them the paperwork. There seems to be something more they require each time you go back and the stack of paperwork gets bigger and bigger.

If your friend is going the business route, make sure on the Work Permit it states the job description + location(s) + (if he is a signatory for the business) that also now must be stated on the WP, and submitted along with pictures of ALL the signatories standing outside the office with the sign showing. Don't smile tho, they don't like that.