Standardised teaching tests for English language.

[rkidlad]

I read earlier that the TCT will be creating a standardised English test for native and non-native speakers/teachers of English.

There's a shortage of 'qualified' English teachers in the kingdom, so they need to do something about it. The 'bury your head' approach doesn't seem to be working. Anyone with a degree that's not in education or related to English can take this test. If they pass, they'll officially be 'qualified' to teach English here.

Funny how foreign teachers with degrees in education won't work for 35k a month. Shame on them. What about the corrupt directors who aren't getting theirs? Sorry, kids! I meant what about the kids?

[bwpage3]

What is your point?

[rkidlad]

What is your point?

I'm sharing a piece of news. Feel free to comment on it how you wish. You're a big boy. You don't have to be told how to comment.

[Loaded]

It was reported in the paper that cannot be mentioned

[BruceMangosteen]

How does once again creating a "test" do anything about the shortage of teachers?

The "problem" remains the type of people you are going to attract with low wages and almost no benefits. While there are exceptions, the rule of supply and demand still remain.

Most with an even ounce of self respect would refuse to take such a test if they are in fact "Native English Speakers" with real University degrees.

[Gsxrnz]

My bar bill is 35k per month.

But I do give free English lessons to the staff. Rather than saying "Sexy man, where you go?", they now say "Good evening sir/gentlemen, come in and enjoy a drink with us",

Turnover has increased considerably.

Just doing my bit for the Kingdom.

[rkidlad]

How does once again creating a "test" do anything about the shortage of teachers?

The "problem" remains the type of people you are going to attract with low wages and almost no benefits. While there are exceptions, the rule of supply and demand still remain.

Most with an even ounce of self respect would refuse to take such a test if they are in fact "Native English Speakers" with real University degrees.

I know one guy doing an online PGCEi because he can't use waivers anymore. It's a very difficult course and it costs nearly 4,000 British pounds (200k Baht). This guy is definitely an exception because he has a wife and kid here. He can't leave. He will receive no pay rise nor any benefits on completion. School couldn't care less if he had a degree from Oxford. He has to do it to keep his teacher's license.

I know another guy doing a degree in education at a university here in Bangkok. It's owned and run by Filipinos. He said the course is disorganised, makes no sense and he's being taught by people who are barely coherent in the use of English. He doesn't care as he's just going through the motions until he gets that piece of paper. I think his course is about 140k Baht.

Most foreigners are not willing to do this. Why should they? Thailand wants to pay peanuts and cries foul when they employ a bunch of idiots. Thais and foreigners alike cry foul that it's the foreigners fault that the foreign teachers are so bad. Let's not lay any blame on the corrupt directors. Only teachers have to be honest and noble. At the end of the day, you employed this person. How many times can you employ a clown until it becomes 'you' (the school) that is the problem.

This test would eliminate costs and time compared to an ed degree or PGCEi, I guess. I think even they're realising that asking for 'fully qualified' teachers offering low salaries and no benefits ain't gonna happen. Pay the money or do the best with what you can get, Thailand. Foreigners don't owe you anything.

As for degree teachers taking this test, what about non-degree holders? If you have a degree in social science, let's say, how does that qualify you to teach English? It doesn't. Sure, you worked hard and are at a higher level of education than a non-degree holder, but still, you're not actually qualified to teach English. Do your CELTA and take your English exam. I believe the same should be allowed for non-degree holders. End of the day - if you pass their test then you're suitably qualified, right?

[mikebell]

My bar bill is 35k per month.

But I do give free English lessons to the staff. Rather than saying "Sexy man, where you go?", they now say "Good evening sir/gentlemen, come in and enjoy a drink with us",

Turnover has increased considerably.

Just doing my bit for the Kingdom.

I taught the gals at my local to call out 'Come inside me for a drink' and/or 'I want your baby'. It was rumoured that custom picked by 18.5%.

[masuk]

How does once again creating a "test" do anything about the shortage of teachers?

The "problem" remains the type of people you are going to attract with low wages and almost no benefits. While there are exceptions, the rule of supply and demand still remain.

Most with an even ounce of self respect would refuse to take such a test if they are in fact "Native English Speakers" with real University degrees.

The standard course is Cambridge University IELTS test.

There is no requirement for a degree. After all, if you've just spent 3 or 4 years studying e.g. Soil Science, will that make you a trained English teacher?

[grumbleweed]

It wouldn't surprise me if this is just another little earner for someone

Having seen some of the tests that Thais have set for Thai students; I can only say that if they have anything to do with this one, we're screwed.

I still have cold sweats thinking about the Cultural and Ethics course I attended at Mahidol University. The lecturers, including a dean, were pathetic. All told it was the worst educational experience, and I use the term loosely, of my life. They actually teach ethics as if they invented them, and include such gems as "teachers shouldn't take drugs"

[Snackbar]

If you don't have a degree how can you comment on it's relevance to teaching'?

If you haven't experienced 'teaching' how can you assume you know what's involved?

An English language native would pass any test the Thais came up with.

There's nothing wrong with teaching standards here. The problem is the culture. Everything you see is dumbed down to the maximum. Superstition, supernatural, religious philosophy, merit, patronism, it's all BS that cannot be discussed or questioned. There's the problem.

[Oxx]

An English language native would pass any test the Thais came up with.

You clearly haven't seen many (any?) English tests devised by Thai educators. Often it's impossible to ascertain the "right" answer, or more than one answer will be correct.

On the other hand, having worked briefly at a language school here, I was shocked by the standard of both spoken and written English of my colleagues. One, when speaking, didn't even use what is called here "verb-2", always using verb-3 in its place. Another could barely spell even the simplest of words, yet was teaching advanced levels with texts full of words he simply didn't know. I rather doubt either of those two could pass any English language test. (For relevance, both also taught at local government schools.)

[grumbleweed]

If you don't have a degree how can you comment on it's relevance to teaching'?

If you haven't experienced 'teaching' how can you assume you know what's involved?

An English language native would pass any test the Thais came up with.

There's nothing wrong with teaching standards here. The problem is the culture. Everything you see is dumbed down to the maximum. Superstition, supernatural, religious philosophy, merit, patronism, it's all BS that cannot be discussed or questioned. There's the problem.

I've seen national tests with questions that have more than one correct answer and questions with no correct answer. Not to mention mention questions which don't make any sense at all

"There is nothing wrong with the teaching standards here" We are on the same planet yes?

By the way: I have a degree and 9 years teaching experience here.

Obviously you've never heard the saying "I'ts better to be remain silent and be thought of as a fool....."

[SOTIRIOS]

...when....next to never...???

...fake degrees are rampant...originating for Southeast Asian neighboring countries especially....

...and if you think that someone cannot be a great teacher...without a degree...society loses out....

...I know someone with an associates degree...in a different field...who was clearly 'the best teacher many ever met'...

...the problem was the organization....and other staff who were envious or jealous...or fearful.

..and would find a way to ruin his name one way or another...time and again....

...with society...the students that he loved and respected....and taught with all his heart and soul....losing out...to greed and mediocrity...

...bring on the test...I dare you.....

...just recall that 60 % (?) or more of Thai Teachers.....Nurses...Doctors...were found to be cheating in their respective exams...

...so what difference will it really make anyway...???

...I know I would get one of the highest scores...not to say that that would guarantee me anything...

...have you seen what passes these days as 'heads of departments'....playing God over people as it suits their little minds...???

[lostinisaan]

If you don't have a degree how can you comment on it's relevance to teaching'?

If you haven't experienced 'teaching' how can you assume you know what's involved?

An English language native would pass any test the Thais came up with.

There's nothing wrong with teaching standards here. The problem is the culture. Everything you see is dumbed down to the maximum. Superstition, supernatural, religious philosophy, merit, patronism, it's all BS that cannot be discussed or questioned. There's the problem.

"An English language native would pass any test the Thais came up with."

It's not that native speakers are terrible at using their own language. Please read some threads here and you'll see how many NES have a problem with the "simple" use of "your" and "you're" ,or "there" and "their".

Perhaps these users never learnt writing well. No one is a native writer.

And there certainly are tests, for example some well written university entrance exams where some NES would fail.

​ Making such a statement that "an English language native would pass any test the Thais came up with" is nothing else than another form of Thai bashing.

​ A Thai friend just came back from the UK with a PhD in English from a well known university. He could definitely create a test where a lot of NES English teachers in Thailand wouldn't pass.

And i truly believe that this forum already has quite a lot of Thai bashing members who're living here.

[Snackbar]

Read a book and discover the untruths the masses aren't permitted, under law, to question.

The culture of implied stupidity leads to a nation of unquestioning, intolerant people that explode every 5 years.

If you think that is Thai bashing god help you.

[jimcarr65]

With a Master's Degree in Business Administration (M.B.A.) from a 130 year old university in the U.S. I am qualified to teach business at the college level in the U.S. by just having these credentials. Are you going to tell me that someone who has a Bachelor's Degree in Education can teach English to a 3rd grader any better than I just because they have the E.d. after their name? I will answer that for you, NO. I know several teachers who don't even have degrees who can teach circles around an E.d. just because their heart is in it, they care about the students and they give 100 percent.

Edited June 4, 2016 by jimcarr65

[Snackbar]

I've got this and I've done that. Bahhh You're just showing your ignorance. And you show great disrespect to dedicated trained people.

Controlling and engaging 30 six yr old kids takes a lot of training and a certain kind of person.

What are you going to recall from a business qualification? economics, strategic financial management, business decision making, stastical analysis?

Perhaps you could 'teach' them to think before talking spurious nonsense.

Like I say it's the culture that's the issue not the quality of teaching.

Read some books, you can buy them in a book shop. It's not difficult and quite absorbing.

[bazza40]

My bar bill is 35k per month.

But I do give free English lessons to the staff. Rather than saying "Sexy man, where you go?", they now say "Good evening sir/gentlemen, come in and enjoy a drink with us",

Turnover has increased considerably.

Just doing my bit for the Kingdom.

I commend your altruism.

With a bar bill of 35K a month, don't the staff slur their words somewhat?

[gandalf12]

A question and it isn't meant to be negative in any respect. How do you get a PhD in English? In Science I understand what is required but English is one of those things which is complicated I am sure when you really go into the dissection of the language, does it advance English and if so in what way? As I say, in the Sciences you have to provide work that helps to advance the subject that your PhD study is in.

Anyone got actual answers I would appreciate their input, silly of nonsense answers please keep to yourself

[AlQaholic]

Being an English native speaker does not automatically qualify you to teach English. In my opinion a test where a test audience have to try to understand what the speaker is saying and write it down, that would be a good test for Brummies and Scouse.....

Edited June 4, 2016 by AlQaholic

[Oxx]

In my opinion a test where a test audience have to try to understand what the speaker is saying and write it down, that would be a good test for Brummies and Scouse.....

Surely learners should be exposed to a wide range of accents. In the real world they're not only going to meet people who speak with the strangulated tones of the Queen of England.

[muzmurray]

An English language native would pass any test the Thais came up with.

You clearly haven't seen many (any?) English tests devised by Thai educators. Often it's impossible to ascertain the "right" answer, or more than one answer will be correct.

On the other hand, having worked briefly at a language school here, I was shocked by the standard of both spoken and written English of my colleagues. One, when speaking, didn't even use what is called here "verb-2", always using verb-3 in its place. Another could barely spell even the simplest of words, yet was teaching advanced levels with texts full of words he simply didn't know. I rather doubt either of those two could pass any English language test. (For relevance, both also taught at local government schools.)

Tests are not "devised", maybe you should look in the mirror before casting stones?

Edited June 4, 2016 by muzmurray

[Davehappen]

Helping the wife's cousin with he English ,

Question

How do you get to school

I ask him and he said I walk to school,

I said there's your answer,

Came back from school next day,

He said I get answer wrong,

I said what should the answer be,

He said teacher say, I go by foot,

Laugh I nearly fell off my chair.

[silent]

In my opinion a test where a test audience have to try to understand what the speaker is saying and write it down, that would be a good test for Brummies and Scouse.....

Surely learners should be exposed to a wide range of accents. In the real world they're not only going to meet people who speak with the strangulated tones of the Queen of England.

As long as I'm not marked on things like whether it was a caw or car they were talking about I'd be happy to help sort out.Native English Speakers.

[Snackbar]

If you know anything at all it is that critical thinking is against the law. That is why they don't do it.

Read some books.

[jimcarr65]

I've got this and I've done that. Bahhh You're just showing your ignorance. And you show great disrespect to dedicated trained people.

Controlling and engaging 30 six yr old kids takes a lot of training and a certain kind of person.

What are you going to recall from a business qualification? economics, strategic financial management, business decision making, stastical analysis?

Perhaps you could 'teach' them to think before talking spurious nonsense.

Like I say it's the culture that's the issue not the quality of teaching.

Read some books, you can buy them in a book shop. It's not difficult and quite absorbing.

Dear Sir: I teach two classes of 35 kids each. One is 2nd grade(7year olds), the other is 3rd grade(8 year olds). I have no problem controlling or engaging my students and I use something that I never learned in a book, classroom, or seminar. It's called common sense. So as far as what you said about this taking "a lot of training", I say nonsense.

Edited June 4, 2016 by jimcarr65

[Snackbar]

Do you have police clearance? A PGCE?

Due respect to those that have. Those without..well. Pedo alert.

[lostinisaan]

A question and it isn't meant to be negative in any respect. How do you get a PhD in English? In Science I understand what is required but English is one of those things which is complicated I am sure when you really go into the dissection of the language, does it advance English and if so in what way? As I say, in the Sciences you have to provide work that helps to advance the subject that your PhD study is in.

Anyone got actual answers I would appreciate their input, silly of nonsense answers please keep to yourself

Studying for a PhD at UCL With access to a vast collection of archival materials, and world-leading supervision in a wide range of literary periods and topics, UCL is one of the best universities in which to study for an English PhD. Studying for a PhD at UCL

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/english/prospective/mphil-eng-lang

Edited June 4, 2016 by lostinisaan

[mrwebb8825]

Well, like anything that comes down the proverbial pipeline, I'm adopting a hide and watch position. Many of you may remember the "Test Every Teacher in Their Degree Related Field" idea that resulted in an 88% failure rate followed by the removal of said minister.

TCT didn't even exist when I moved here and began teaching. I've met many of the people whom work for TCT and must say I was unimpressed with the level of language skill possessed at the highest levels.

A couple of true stories to prove my point:

Went for an interview to teach English to M1-M4. Was greeted by the head of Science, PHd holder and her 2nd in command, Master's holder. Was handed a Science text book and asked to give a quick demo lesson.

Up for the challenge, I flipped the book open to a unit on Chromatology. I asked the 'doctor' and her assistant to define Chromatology. Pretty simple question given the audience. Blank stares ensued and I concluded the demo lesson at that point.

Recently walked into my classroom to prepare the whiteboard for my M3 English class. There written on the board in beautiful handwriting was:

="Where are you come from?"

="I am come from Thailand."

This teacher has a Master's in English.

Smiled, erased the board and went on with my lesson prep.

My wife is subjected to these tests periodically and the questions/answers never cease to amaze me.

Example:

Give a definition for the following vocabulary - Johnny was besotted for jumping in the cold water. ~ Can you react what you saw?