My Family, In the States, Still Asks Why I Like Chiang Mai?--- 2 Reasons

[WonderousWand]

I do not know about other parts of Thailand, but I think that the rest of Thailand cannot be far different from Chiang Mai, at least with respect to the two most important qualities of the culture that make me like this city.

I have had about a year to think about this, and I had not planned to write anything at this moment. However, I just thought I ought to put some words down here before they are forgotten, and me with them.

Who knows how long we have to live, and so why not live where we want, if we can.

There are always the visa problems and other challenges, yet these can be overcome if we have friends, and if we are resilient enough.

But what about the two qualities I mentioned? And why would these make a preference difference living here versus living somewhere in America? (Meaning North America)

I am fairly sure that most people who have decided to move to Thailand have already considered these two characteristics of the culture, and you probably have decided that you like to be on this side of the continuum. I know that I do.

The first characteristic is Individualism

The second characteristic is Power Distance

If one wants to know why they are happier being in Asia, then probably the examination of these two factors is important.

As you can see from the attached grid, there are three or four countries located closely together in the upper right quadrant, one of which is Thailand.

If one is a huge extrovert, then probably Asia is not the place to be.

I could post a lot more, for example regarding Extroversion - Introversion, however this is already plenty of food for thought

There are those who love Asia and those who prefer the West.

The culture must match one's personality, in a perfect world.

Here in Chiang Mai, I have begun to feel that I am not a square peg in a round hole.

Edited June 6, 2016 by WonderousWand

[northernjohn]

To each their own. I love the difference here. being a round peg in a round hole in Nanny land just didn't do it for me.

[worgeordie]

You have lost me, better not to think too much,just make the

best of the situation you have.be happy ,dont worry.my motto.

regards worgeordie

[WonderousWand]

You have lost me, better not to think too much,just make the

best of the situation you have.be happy ,dont worry.my motto.

regards worgeordie

One way to view it is to decide for oneself if he or she would rather live in a very individualistic society, and few are more individualistic than the USA, or does one prefer to live in a more collectivist society, such as Thailand.

I definitely prefer to live in a country free of rampant individualism, however this is just due to my own personality quirks.

My brother, for example, loves to be in control at the top, and he would never feel comfortable yielding anything to anyone, especially in business or in the company hierarchy.

This is why it is important, in my view, to choose the country you like, according to whether or not the culture matches one's personality.

Individualism - collectivism

Power Distance and where one is on the continuum.

Additionally, it is important to consider where one is on the Extroversion Introversion scale, because Asians are more comfortable with people who are less extroverted and overtly power hungry, perhaps.

These traits are not particular to Thailand, but are obvious in general throughout Asia, or at least SE Asia and East Asia.

If one welcomes the traits in the culture that one finds in Asia, then this is the place to be.

I could also mention the continuum of culturally based expression of behavioral Masculinity vs Femininity traits, as exhibited by each gender.

It all boils down to knowing what to expect from the culture one is living in, and deciding if that culture is one which provides a feeling of acceptance, peace and liking.

Some are at peace living in the culture of Chiang Mai, and I think that I am definitely one of those.

I think that there are many who come here and fit right in within a week. I have met a few, and they just like it here, very much.

Edited June 6, 2016 by WonderousWand

[WonderousWand]

Here is a link to an interactive database and charts to gauge various traits in society, categorized by country.

Who knows what the validity might be, since who has time to check it.

However, it might still be informative in helping us to reconsider the differences between East and West.

https://geert-hofstede.com/thailand.html

Really nice website they created here to explore cultural variance sorted by country, and allowing comparison between any two countries.

Edited June 6, 2016 by WonderousWand

[cyberfarang]

Here is a link to an interactive database and charts to gauge various traits in society, categorized by country.

Who knows what the validity might be, since who has time to check it.

However, it might still be informative in helping us to reconsider the differences between East and West.

https://geert-hofstede.com/thailand.html

Really nice website they created here to explore cultural variance sorted by country, and allowing comparison between any two countries.

Sorry mate but you are putting too much into this, one of my brain cells just imploded reading your posts.

The ideal for peace and happiness wherever you live is being simplistic. Don`t delve into anything too deeply otherwise you`re be disappointed, be yourself, act yourself and suddenly you will find you`ve blended into the surroundings before you realise it. You`re find it hard to remember the previous lifestyle you had before if you are here long enough. Reasons for liking any city comes from within the people themselves, there is no set 1 + 1 makes 2, we are all here for our own various reasons that do not fit into any statistical formulas. All I know is, I`m fairly content the way I am and that`s all I need to know. Would like to be 25 years younger, more desirable to the ladies, have more money for more options in my life, but like most of us I`m stuck with who I am, what I am and what I already have. But I don`t walk about all day or go to bed at night thinking about it that would make me go more insane then I already am.

[JLCrab]

Next time I am asked why do I like living in Thailand I might use this one from The Shawshank Redemption:

ANDY: You know what the Mexicans say about the Pacific?
RED: No.
ANDY: They say it has no memory. That's where I want to live the rest of my life. A warm place with no memory.

That's what I like about Thailand -- a warm place with no memory.

[Diplomatico]

SMH.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Diplomatico

[WinnieTheKhwai]

You think too mutt.

I'd just show something like this and be done with it.

And if that doesn't work, tell them you're here for the hookers.

Edited June 7, 2016 by WinnieTheKhwai

[FolkGuitar]

When I was a young teenager with my first real girlfriend, I spent a lot of energy trying to figure out if I was in love. I asked my parents 'how do I know if I'm in love?' The said; 'You'll know it when it happens.' That wasn't good enough for me... It made no sense. So I continued looking for a definition of 'love.' In fact, I spent years trying to find out how one can truly know if they are in love. Years...

Then, one day I fell in love. And then I knew.

Same with living in Thailand.

[noise]

Given the definition of power distance is: "Power distance refers to the way in which power is distributed and the extent to which the less powerful accept that power is distributed unequally. Put simply, people in some cultures accept a higher degree of unequally distributed power than do people in other cultures".........

the chart says (by virtue of where Thailand falls on the low end of individualism) Thais (and you) willingly subjugate what many people call their inherent personal freedoms and/or rights to a any "superior" who has a position of power regardless of the source or legitimacy of that power.

Interesting.............

[pronto]

Here is a link to an interactive database and charts to gauge various traits in society, categorized by country.

Who knows what the validity might be, since who has time to check it.

However, it might still be informative in helping us to reconsider the differences between East and West.

https://geert-hofstede.com/thailand.html

Really nice website they created here to explore cultural variance sorted by country, and allowing comparison between any two countries.

Thanks for this very informative link. And thank you for your initial post. Quite interesting.

[Naam]

the chart says...

[jobin]

Yeah, but what the average Thai thinks about 'power distribution' in his neighborhood need not be what the farang thinks. Of course, in all cases, the guy with the gun, whether the State (USA) or local thug (Guatemala) commands considerable power, whether anyone likes it or not.

[CMKiwi]

Id better go take a rest...my brain hurts after trying to digest the OP.

I probably have a fair amount of spare time on my hands but Id rather waste it on other things than comtemplating or trying to contemplate the meaning of life, the world and everything.

I'll just stick to K.I.S.S that way my brain doesnt get scrambled.....

Now where did I put that quantum theory book? Oh thats right I dont have one.

[cloudhopper]

By the same reasoning you must have been unhappy all those years in the States. Glad you're happier now in a more rigidly hierarchical and less individualistic culture.

[saakura]

OP poor chap, looks like he has been walking around a lot without a hat.

[northernjohn]

You have lost me, better not to think too much,just make the

best of the situation you have.be happy ,dont worry.my motto.

regards worgeordie

One way to view it is to decide for oneself if he or she would rather live in a very individualistic society, and few are more individualistic than the USA, or does one prefer to live in a more collectivist society, such as Thailand.

I definitely prefer to live in a country free of rampant individualism, however this is just due to my own personality quirks.

My brother, for example, loves to be in control at the top, and he would never feel comfortable yielding anything to anyone, especially in business or in the company hierarchy.

This is why it is important, in my view, to choose the country you like, according to whether or not the culture matches one's personality.

Individualism - collectivism

Power Distance and where one is on the continuum.

Additionally, it is important to consider where one is on the Extroversion Introversion scale, because Asians are more comfortable with people who are less extroverted and overtly power hungry, perhaps.

These traits are not particular to Thailand, but are obvious in general throughout Asia, or at least SE Asia and East Asia.

If one welcomes the traits in the culture that one finds in Asia, then this is the place to be.

I could also mention the continuum of culturally based expression of behavioral Masculinity vs Femininity traits, as exhibited by each gender.

It all boils down to knowing what to expect from the culture one is living in, and deciding if that culture is one which provides a feeling of acceptance, peace and liking.

Some are at peace living in the culture of Chiang Mai, and I think that I am definitely one of those.

I think that there are many who come here and fit right in within a week. I have met a few, and they just like it here, very much.

Sounds like a good reason for you not to stay in Thailand. If you have to analyze it that much. Do you put that much analyzing into the food you eat? You realize it does not all come from the same source so do you have a list of qualifications for it before you order a tossed salad. Do the servers know what you are talking about? I stay here because I like it here. I don't know any thing about the charts you have to use. I just plain like it.

[WonderousWand]

By the same reasoning you must have been unhappy all those years in the States. Glad you're happier now in a more rigidly hierarchical and less individualistic culture.

You hit the nail on the head!

Societies with less individualism than those such as the USA are probably happier, because of it.

I also must admit that I am not an extrovert, and do not enjoy the company of USA style politicians, or most USA business leaders.

You are correct that a personality such as mine would be happier, and is happier, in Thailand.

[Bill97]

Where is the best panang gai sold in CM

[amexpat]

Sounds like a good reason for you not to stay in Thailand. If you have to analyze it that much. Do you put that much analyzing into the food you eat? You realize it does not all come from the same source so do you have a list of qualifications for it before you order a tossed salad. Do the servers know what you are talking about? I stay here because I like it here. I don't know any thing about the charts you have to use. I just plain like it.

Yeah, OP. Don't go bringing that smarty farty, inti lectual stuff here.

[noise]

I enjoy an occasional philosophical discussion, so.........

Extroversion and introversion are personality traits that are separate from individualism. They can be equally expressed and demonstrated in any country regardless of the power distribution. Thailand has its share of glad handers, social butterflies, and reticent semi-hermits.

Individualism is the principle of being independent and self-reliant; a social theory favoring freedom of action for individuals over collective or state control (e.g., North Korea).

The statement "Asians are more comfortable with people who are less extroverted and overtly power hungry" seems to say Asians want a mostly quiet dictator controlling their everyday life?

I see lots of different philosophical subjects being mixed together, e.g., the acceptance the extroverts vs introverts in Thai society is worthy of a discussion all by itself..

[WonderousWand]

I enjoy an occasional philosophical discussion, so.........

Extroversion and introversion are personality traits that are separate from individualism. They can be equally expressed and demonstrated in any country regardless of the power distribution. Thailand has its share of glad handers, social butterflies, and reticent semi-hermits.

Individualism is the principle of being independent and self-reliant; a social theory favoring freedom of action for individuals over collective or state control (e.g., North Korea).

The statement "Asians are more comfortable with people who are less extroverted and overtly power hungry" seems to say Asians want a mostly quiet dictator controlling their everyday life?

I see lots of different philosophical subjects being mixed together, e.g., the acceptance the extroverts vs introverts in Thai society is worthy of a discussion all by itself..

American society, as a whole, ranks very high on individualism, as defined in relation to collectivism.

Thailand ranks high as a society centered around collectivism.

In this case, the group often becomes more important than the desires or needs of the individual.

If one does not agree or like the collectivist perspective on the way society should operate, then probably they will not appreciate what the society and culture here has to offer.

Also, Societies, as a whole, can be classified as made up of individuals who are on average either more extroverted or more introverted.

You can play with the interactive database which I uploaded to see the extroversion rankings for different countries.

This is not to say that there is not always more difference between members of a group than between any two groups, or two countries.

Edited June 7, 2016 by WonderousWand

[nev]

I just say escaping from the system and not being stuck in a 9 to 5 job.

[ogb]

 

I enjoy an occasional philosophical discussion, so.........

Extroversion and introversion are personality traits that are separate from individualism. They can be equally expressed and demonstrated in any country regardless of the power distribution. Thailand has its share of glad handers, social butterflies, and reticent semi-hermits.

Individualism is the principle of being independent and self-reliant; a social theory favoring freedom of action for individuals over collective or state control (e.g., North Korea).

The statement "Asians are more comfortable with people who are less extroverted and overtly power hungry" seems to say Asians want a mostly quiet dictator controlling their everyday life?

I see lots of different philosophical subjects being mixed together, e.g., the acceptance the extroverts vs introverts in Thai society is worthy of a discussion all by itself..

American society, as a whole, ranks very high on individualism, as defined in relation to collectivism.

Thailand ranks high as a society centered around collectivism.

In this case, the group often becomes more important than the desires or needs of the individual.

If one does not agree or like the collectivist perspective on the way society should operate, then probably they will not appreciate what the society and culture here has to offer.

Also, Societies, as a whole, can be classified as made up of individuals who are on average either more extroverted or more introverted.

You can play with the interactive database which I uploaded to see the extroversion rankings for different countries.

This is not to say that there is not always more difference between members of a group than between any two groups, or two countries.

How does the simmering red/yellow divide fit into your view of Thai collectivism?

[seancbk]

I enjoy an occasional philosophical discussion, so.........

Extroversion and introversion are personality traits that are separate from individualism. They can be equally expressed and demonstrated in any country regardless of the power distribution. Thailand has its share of glad handers, social butterflies, and reticent semi-hermits.

Individualism is the principle of being independent and self-reliant; a social theory favoring freedom of action for individuals over collective or state control (e.g., North Korea).

The statement "Asians are more comfortable with people who are less extroverted and overtly power hungry" seems to say Asians want a mostly quiet dictator controlling their everyday life?

I see lots of different philosophical subjects being mixed together, e.g., the acceptance the extroverts vs introverts in Thai society is worthy of a discussion all by itself..

American society, as a whole, ranks very high on individualism, as defined in relation to collectivism.

Thailand ranks high as a society centered around collectivism.

In this case, the group often becomes more important than the desires or needs of the individual.

If one does not agree or like the collectivist perspective on the way society should operate, then probably they will not appreciate what the society and culture here has to offer.

Also, Societies, as a whole, can be classified as made up of individuals who are on average either more extroverted or more introverted.

You can play with the interactive database which I uploaded to see the extroversion rankings for different countries.

This is not to say that there is not always more difference between members of a group than between any two groups, or two countries.

I compared the two places I consider home - Thailand and Hong Kong. According to the comparison they are almost opposites yet I fit in brilliantly in both places.

Then again the data for Thailand must be averaged out by the vast numbers of unmotivated and under-educated poor people.

If you compared my Chinese friends with my Thai friends and their attitudes and expectations you'd see that they are the same as each other and the same as mine.

I would hate Chiang Mai for the simple reason that it isn't a major city like Bangkok or HK.

[WonderousWand]

 

I enjoy an occasional philosophical discussion, so.........

Extroversion and introversion are personality traits that are separate from individualism. They can be equally expressed and demonstrated in any country regardless of the power distribution. Thailand has its share of glad handers, social butterflies, and reticent semi-hermits.

Individualism is the principle of being independent and self-reliant; a social theory favoring freedom of action for individuals over collective or state control (e.g., North Korea).

The statement "Asians are more comfortable with people who are less extroverted and overtly power hungry" seems to say Asians want a mostly quiet dictator controlling their everyday life?

I see lots of different philosophical subjects being mixed together, e.g., the acceptance the extroverts vs introverts in Thai society is worthy of a discussion all by itself..

American society, as a whole, ranks very high on individualism, as defined in relation to collectivism.

Thailand ranks high as a society centered around collectivism.

In this case, the group often becomes more important than the desires or needs of the individual.

If one does not agree or like the collectivist perspective on the way society should operate, then probably they will not appreciate what the society and culture here has to offer.

Also, Societies, as a whole, can be classified as made up of individuals who are on average either more extroverted or more introverted.

You can play with the interactive database which I uploaded to see the extroversion rankings for different countries.

This is not to say that there is not always more difference between members of a group than between any two groups, or two countries.

How does the simmering red/yellow divide fit into your view of Thai collectivism?

For the purposes of this discussion, I am not considering any single political side or view. I might have mentioned Trump, for example, as one who seems extroverted and a proponent of individualistic thinking.

I am interested in the cultural and social differences between East Asia, and SE Asia, and Western countries, which make Asia a very good place to live for those who are less extroverted, and more inclined to a collectivist approach to life and problem solving, and child rearing, as well.

Edited June 7, 2016 by WonderousWand

[amexpat]

^ "For the purposes of this discussion, I am not considering any single political side or view. I might have mentioned Trump, for example, as one who seems extroverted and a proponent of individualistic thinking.

I am interested in the cultural and social differences between East Asia, and SE Asia, and Western countries, which make Asia a very good place to live for those who are less extroverted, and more inclined to a collectivist approach to life and problem solving, and child rearing, as well. "

An American politician wrote a book about that. She titled it: It Takes A Village.

[cloudhopper]

You're new here - It's not collectivist and introverted it's feudal and intimidated.

[WonderousWand]

You're new here - It's not collectivist and introverted it's feudal and intimidated.

Please refer to the chart and data uploaded with the original post. I am basing this discussion on that data, data which is also a reflection of other data that shows, basically, the same thing...

Which is that Thailand scores high on collectivism and the USA and Australia very high on individualism.

With regard to Power Distance, this data is also shown.