Ban Chang - thinking of moving to that region Beware - pollution

[thaihome]

I check the AQI for that area quite often.

It seems that regardless of how good or bad it is, it is always one of the worst ratings nationally.

today it is well into the orange.

It also is puzzling that every time tere is a peak in the area, one or two of the stations go "off-line".

As for the design of plants there regrading health and safety - I'm afraid I can't agree with the poster above. Regardless of how safe he believes them to be te inspection and enforcement during construction is just not up to international standards - in fact most is boiled down to "entertainment" of and backhanders to those responsible for checking.

Secondly the infrastructure on which these factories are sited and the interaction between them and the environment is just not fully considered or catered for.

Thirdly - Regardless of how "well" these places are designed, the health and safety procedures required are simply not carried out. I know from from personal experience of several quite alarming breaches.

Not sure what site you are checking for AQI, but this shows Rayong being "good" (green) all day today except for a few spikes into the yellow in the PM10 category.

http://aqicn.org/map/rayong/#@g/12.7074/101.1474/12z

Your claims on the design of the plants is just plain wrong and cannot be based on real experience in the design development and construction of the plants. Have you ever participated in a HAZOP for one of them. Ever reviewed the EIA's? Ever been involved in the construction management ? How about operating procedures?

I don't disagree that there are environmental issues in the Map Tha Phut area, but in my experience the problems are not due to the plants inside the estates subject to monitoring. The problem is with the plants, factories, and work shops in the immediate area that are not subject to the same design controls and monitoring that goes on in the estate. Unfortunately, the companies that operate within the regulations are blamed because they are high profile and have the deep pockets.

TH

[cumgranosalum]

I check the AQI for that area quite often.

It seems that regardless of how good or bad it is, it is always one of the worst ratings nationally.

today it is well into the orange.

It also is puzzling that every time tere is a peak in the area, one or two of the stations go "off-line".

As for the design of plants there regrading health and safety - I'm afraid I can't agree with the poster above. Regardless of how safe he believes them to be te inspection and enforcement during construction is just not up to international standards - in fact most is boiled down to "entertainment" of and backhanders to those responsible for checking.

Secondly the infrastructure on which these factories are sited and the interaction between them and the environment is just not fully considered or catered for.

Thirdly - Regardless of how "well" these places are designed, the health and safety procedures required are simply not carried out. I know from from personal experience of several quite alarming breaches.

Not sure what site you are checking for AQI, but this shows Rayong being "good" (green) all day today except for a few spikes into the yellow in the PM10 category.

http://aqicn.org/map/rayong/#@g/12.7074/101.1474/12z

Your claims on the design of the plants is just plain wrong and cannot be based on real experience in the design development and construction of the plants. Have you ever participated in a HAZOP for one of them. Ever reviewed the EIA's? Ever been involved in the construction management ? How about operating procedures?

I don't disagree that there are environmental issues in the Map Tha Phut area, but in my experience the problems are not due to the plants inside the estates subject to monitoring. The problem is with the plants, factories, and work shops in the immediate area that are not subject to the same design controls and monitoring that goes on in the estate. Unfortunately, the companies that operate within the regulations are blamed because they are high profile and have the deep pockets.

TH

My professional experience is similar to yours except I'm in contact with more companies than you - it's just that I seem to be more analytical consequently get a broader picture and I believe have better communication and understanding with my Thai colleagues.

[LennyW]

I check the AQI for that area quite often.

It seems that regardless of how good or bad it is, it is always one of the worst ratings nationally.

today it is well into the orange.

It also is puzzling that every time tere is a peak in the area, one or two of the stations go "off-line".

As for the design of plants there regrading health and safety - I'm afraid I can't agree with the poster above. Regardless of how safe he believes them to be te inspection and enforcement during construction is just not up to international standards - in fact most is boiled down to "entertainment" of and backhanders to those responsible for checking.

Secondly the infrastructure on which these factories are sited and the interaction between them and the environment is just not fully considered or catered for.

Thirdly - Regardless of how "well" these places are designed, the health and safety procedures required are simply not carried out. I know from from personal experience of several quite alarming breaches.

Not sure what site you are checking for AQI, but this shows Rayong being "good" (green) all day today except for a few spikes into the yellow in the PM10 category.

http://aqicn.org/map/rayong/#@g/12.7074/101.1474/12z

Your claims on the design of the plants is just plain wrong and cannot be based on real experience in the design development and construction of the plants. Have you ever participated in a HAZOP for one of them. Ever reviewed the EIA's? Ever been involved in the construction management ? How about operating procedures?

I don't disagree that there are environmental issues in the Map Tha Phut area, but in my experience the problems are not due to the plants inside the estates subject to monitoring. The problem is with the plants, factories, and work shops in the immediate area that are not subject to the same design controls and monitoring that goes on in the estate. Unfortunately, the companies that operate within the regulations are blamed because they are high profile and have the deep pockets.

TH

My professional experience is similar to yours except I'm in contact with more companies than you - it's just that I seem to be more analytical consequently get a broader picture and I believe have better communication and understanding with my Thai colleagues.

Can one of you share a link for the AQI in Ban Chang , thst is the area of the topic, not Rayong or Mapthaput, closest one i see is Huay Pong.

[Rimmer]

An off topic post has been removed, the topic is about 'Ban Chang possible pollution' not about the member who started the topic.

[cumgranosalum]

Here is an article from about 6 years ago that gives a good history of the pollution in the area.....and of course pollution does just stop it lingers in the environment of years or even decades.

http://www.hiso.or.th/hiso/picture/reportHealth/ThaiHealth2010/eng2010_16.pdf

[Rob13]

We spent some time in Ban Chang and Sattahip few weeks a go. Nice area.Some good restaurants in Ban Chang and a decent beach,

[cumgranosalum]

We spent some time in Ban Chang and Sattahip few weeks a go. Nice area.Some good restaurants in Ban Chang and a decent beach,

i think you'll find that several years of monitoring sea land and air as well as locals health will be more informative than a day at the beach.

i actually go there a lot over the years...about 2 years ago i decided to "risk' a swim....... later that day, all the stitching/seams on my rash vest dissolved and the whole thing fell apart.....but then like yours - it is only anecdotal.......

[Rob13]

We spent some time in Ban Chang and Sattahip few weeks a go. Nice area.Some good restaurants in Ban Chang and a decent beach,

i think you'll find that several years of monitoring sea land and air as well as locals health will be more informative than a day at the beach.

i actually go there a lot over the years...about 2 years ago i decided to "risk' a swim....... later that day, all the stitching/seams on my rash vest dissolved and the whole thing fell apart.....but then like yours - it is only anecdotal.......

You shouldn't have bought such a cheap vest.

[cumgranosalum]

We spent some time in Ban Chang and Sattahip few weeks a go. Nice area.Some good restaurants in Ban Chang and a decent beach,

i think you'll find that several years of monitoring sea land and air as well as locals health will be more informative than a day at the beach.

i actually go there a lot over the years...about 2 years ago i decided to "risk' a swim....... later that day, all the stitching/seams on my rash vest dissolved and the whole thing fell apart.....but then like yours - it is only anecdotal.......

You shouldn't have bought such a cheap vest.

Like your previous post, you just make assumptions and jump to conclusions - it was a Speedo bought in Oz....I used to surf, and have fair skin so have owned many rash vests in my day.

[Rob13]

The are nice beaches down there. I forget the name of the place, but had very good Thai restaurant there. Really good spot. Very calm water too, good for swimming,

[Sheryl]

Another post with off-topic personal insult has been removed. Stay on topic and stay civil, please.

[steve187]

i have been swimming in the sea at phala beach for 11+ years and i can confirm that my string vest is as good as new.

[cumgranosalum]

There is also a presumption that any pollution resulting from nearby industrial activities won't affect Ban Chang (see map in post above) - this of course is incorrect. even quite recently a large oil spill near Koh samet was in effect brushed under the carpet with a few platitudes here and there - both oil and the chemicals used as solvents remain in the eco-system for years and they don't sty in one place. winds tides, currents etc. wash these pollutants up and down the coast.

the following quote says it all......and is very much relevant to those trying to get real information about the environmental issues in that region.

"State agencies are obliged to protect public interest and civil rights during the crisis. The lack of disclosure as to potential impacts on the environment and people has left public in the dark as far as the harmful situation is concerned. The denial of the right to know has also made it impossible for public sector to monitor any mitigations and solutions by both the private enterprise and the state."

http://www.greenpeace.org/seasia/th/press/releases/Thailand-Civil-Society-Statement-The-oil-spill-th/Thailand-Civil-Society-Statement-The-oil-spill-en/

[cumgranosalum]

i have been swimming in the sea at phala beach for 11+ years and i can confirm that my string vest is as good as new.

pollution comes in many forms...including visual!

[Rob13]

Alot of pollution in the world today, the beaches at Ban Chang are lucky to be as clean as they are. L.A. beaches are terrible; little ballls of crude washing up on the beach, you need to watch your step out there.

[cumgranosalum]

Alot of pollution in the world today, the beaches at Ban Chang are lucky to be as clean as they are. L.A. beaches are terrible; little ballls of crude washing up on the beach, you need to watch your step out there.

I think you are basing your judgement on what you personally have seen or can see.

pollution in the Chonburi/Rayong area is from the massive petrochemical industries around there - they are often odourless and colourless - although there are frequently strong odours from those plants.

BTW - there are frequently large wash-ups pf tar-balls on those beaches.

you will of course also be unable to guess at the fish stocks, species diversity. The area's seafood was declared unfit after the oil spill and there has been no public acknowledgement of whether or not the fish are edible now or even if the fish stocks have recovered.

furthermore you cannot make a judgement of the area made made a cursory inspection of the beaches - the pollution is airborne, soil-borne and waterborne - both sea and fresh - to detect this requires continued vigilance by the authorities - something they have repeatedly shown to be lacking in over the past 2 decades.

Pollution is surreptitious, it builds up - it just just stop and disappear...it lingers

[cumgranosalum]

Zoning? what needs zoning are the customers - they are visually a lot more repulsive than the workers.

Easily identified, they should be herded onto an allotted zone on the beach where everyone can come and look and laugh at them. Parents could bring their children to learn what can happen if you leave school and start drinking before you learn any social or interpersonal skills,

...or maybe they could be shipped to the now redundant Tiger Temple and exhibited there - looked after by the Abbot and his acolytes? they allowed indiscriminate acts of breeding before......see what the new charges would do.

[Rob13]

On 7/29/2016 at 9:47 AM, cumgranosalum said:

On 7/29/2016 at 9:09 AM, Rob13 said:

Alot of pollution in the world today, the beaches at Ban Chang are lucky to be as clean as they are. L.A. beaches are terrible; little ballls of crude washing up on the beach, you need to watch your step out there.

I think you are basing your judgement on what you personally have seen or can see.

pollution in the Chonburi/Rayong area is from the massive petrochemical industries around there - they are often odourless and colourless - although there are frequently strong odours from those plants.

BTW - there are frequently large wash-ups pf tar-balls on those beaches.

you will of course also be unable to guess at the fish stocks, species diversity. The area's seafood was declared unfit after the oil spill and there has been no public acknowledgement of whether or not the fish are edible now or even if the fish stocks have recovered.

furthermore you cannot make a judgement of the area made made a cursory inspection of the beaches - the pollution is airborne, soil-borne and waterborne - both sea and fresh - to detect this requires continued vigilance by the authorities - something they have repeatedly shown to be lacking in over the past 2 decades.

Pollution is surreptitious, it builds up - it just just stop and disappear...it lingers

Sounds like NJ. Nice beaches there too. Way too many people though.

[nontabury]

i have been swimming in the sea at phala beach for 11+ years and i can confirm that my string vest is as good as new.

Have lived in the Phala area for the last 18mths,cannot comment on the pollution,other than to say the beaches in Ban Chang are a disgrace, lots of rubbish actually on the beaches,some Proberbly originating off shore, others left by local Thais and visitors. Regarding swimming,my young son refuses to enter the water,as every time he does,he comes out in a rash.

[cumgranosalum]

The situation in BC is without a doubt ongoing and not resolved - Here is an extract from a report in 2013.. they called for action - which firstly has to happen and then the effects have to take place - of course neither is likely or even possible.

To suggest that because BC is not "downwind" of Map Ta Phut it is safe is just a joke.......

 

 

"Map Ta Phut and nearby areas including Huay Pong, Noen Phra, Thap Ma, Map Kha and Ban Chang areas in Rayong province form the largest industrial zone of Thailand. At the same time, wide spread toxic contamination has forced locals to leave the areas. A group of people has urged the government and the private sector to solve the problem which have been responded by installing systems to monitor air and water pollution and coastal erosion, etc.. However, industrial investment still keeps expanding their business, especially chemical, petrochemical industries and coal-fired power plants."

 

National Health

 

Here's wiki's take on the area.....

 

"The town of Map Ta Phut is in the western part of Mueang Rayong district. It is the site of the Map Ta Phut Industrial Estate, Thailand's largest petrochemical and heavy industry park. It contributes to Rayong Province's outstanding economic output, but has also become known for a row of scandals involving hazardous waste, industrial accidents, and pollution."

[cumgranosalum]

On June 23, 2016 at 11:15 AM, LennyW said:

It's amazing the shi@e some people post too it would seem!

Interesting - what do you mean by "<deleted>"? - it seems a reasonably logical statement - perhaps you could explain your thinking?

[C5VETTE]

Here we go again, Yes Banchang is the worse most polluted place in the world. Please don't come here.

[wilai]

The guy is obsessed with the place. Googling wiki to find evidence??? that doesn't even mention BC. I reckon he misspelt his username. 'Curmudgeon' would be more accurate.

[cumgranosalum]

I'm sorry if you've invested in the place but the information speaks for itself - I also think your geography is a bit weak...as is your reading

 

Map Ta Phut and nearby areas including Huay Pong, Noen Phra, Thap Ma, Map Kha and Ban Chang areas in Rayong province form the largest industrial zone of Thailand. At the same time, wide spread toxic contamination has forced locals to leave the areas" - I've highlighted it for you.

[Rob13]

Not sure what the beef is about Ban Chang, we've spent some good days down there at one of their beaches. Nice family area and some good restaurants. I look forward to going back next year.

[Scotwight]

2 hours ago, cumgranosalum said:

I'm sorry if you've invested in the place but the information speaks for itself - I also think your geography is a bit weak...as is your reading

 

Map Ta Phut and nearby areas including Huay Pong, Noen Phra, Thap Ma, Map Kha and Ban Chang areas in Rayong province form the largest industrial zone of Thailand. At the same time, wide spread toxic contamination has forced locals to leave the areas" - I've highlighted it for you.

UTapao to Rayong takes about an hour and a half by car/taxi/songtau.  Ban Chang to Rayong takes about a hour by car/taxi/songtau.   

 

I lived in Chiang Mai and Bangkok and both of those areas are polluted.  Ban Chang is not polluted.   None of the chemical spills or any of the health problems occurred in Ban Chang.  I believe Rayong is now the richest province in Thailand and usually voted the friendliest. 

 

Don't believe me.  Go look for yourself. 
 

Ask anyone who lives there or better yet take a trip yourself. 

[cumgranosalum]

19 minutes ago, Scotwight said:

UTapao to Rayong takes about an hour and a half by car/taxi/songtau.  Ban Chang to Rayong takes about a hour by car/taxi/songtau.   

 

I lived in Chiang Mai and Bangkok and both of those areas are polluted.  Ban Chang is not polluted.   None of the chemical spills or any of the health problems occurred in Ban Chang.  I believe Rayong is now the richest province in Thailand and usually voted the friendliest. 

 

Don't believe me.  Go look for yourself. 
 

Ask anyone who lives there or better yet take a trip yourself. 

"Huay Pong, Noen Phra, Thap Ma, Map Kha and Ban Chang areas in Rayong province form the largest industrial zone of Thailand" - i work there...I've seen for myself and it is scary.

[cumgranosalum]

August 22 - PTT at it again...Explosion and fire at PTT Phenol factory in Rayong releasing a big cloud of....who knows what -  this is in the jurisdiction  of Map Tha put Fire brigade.
 

[Scotwight]

14 minutes ago, cumgranosalum said:

"Huay Pong, Noen Phra, Thap Ma, Map Kha and Ban Chang areas in Rayong province form the largest industrial zone of Thailand" - i work there...I've seen for myself and it is scary.

Ban Chang has no industry and it takes 10 hours to walk from Ban Chang to the first industrial zone in Rayong. 

 

You don't work in Ban Chang.  I believe you live in Australia - correct me if I'm wrong. I don't believe you have ever been to Ban Chang.  Correct me if I'm wrong. 

 

 

Rayong province is 3.552 billion m² in size

[cumgranosalum]

The factory like most in the region are engaged in petro-chemicals and aromatics.

 

Acetone and Phenol

 

Acetone is relatively harmless - so long as you’re not pregnant but phenol ios another matter

 

Phenol and its vapors are corrosive to the eyes, the skin, and the respiratory tract.[41] Its corrosive effect on skin and mucous membranes is due to a protein-degenerating effect.[28] Repeated or prolonged skin contact with phenol may cause dermatitis, or even second and third-degree burns.[42] Inhalation of phenol vapor may cause lung edema.[41] The substance may cause harmful effects on the central nervous system and heart, resulting in dysrhythmia, seizures, and coma.[43] The kidneys may be affected as well. Long-term or repeated exposure of the substance may have harmful effects on the liver and kidneys.[44] There is no evidence that phenol causes cancer in humans.[45] Besides its hydrophobic effects, another mechanism for the toxicity of phenol may be the formation of phenoxyl radicals.[46]

 

Since phenol is absorbed through the skin relatively quickly, systemic poisoning can occur in addition to the local caustic burns.[28] Resorptive poisoning by a large quantity of phenol can occur even with only a small area of skin, rapidly leading to paralysis of the central nervous system and a severe drop in body temperature. The LD50 for oral toxicity is less than 0.5 mg/kg for dogs, rabbits, or mice; the minimum lethal human dose was cited as 140 mg/kg.[28] The Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR), U.S. Department of Health and Human Services states the fatal dose for ingestion of phenol is from 1 to 32 g.[47]

 

Chemical burns from skin exposures can be decontaminated by washing with polyethylene glycol,[48] isopropyl alcohol,[49] or perhaps even copious amounts of water.[50] Removal of contaminated clothing is required, as well as immediate hospital treatment for large splashes. This is particularly important if the phenol is mixed with chloroform (a commonly used mixture in molecular biology for DNA and RNA purification). Phenol is also a reproductive toxin causing increased risk of abortion and low birth weight indicating retarded development in utero.