Fresh report: SSA benefits application interview with SSA-Manila

[mtls2005]

Not a tech person. Do not have Smart Phone in Thailand.

You have a computer? Get a Google Mail account, if you don't have one. Use a VPN to sign up for Google Voice (although you might be challenged to get verification?), read up on Google Voice, look at some videos.

An SMS to your GV number is delivered as an email to your GMail account. I can't see the fax number working; utilizing a friend or relative to relay the SSA SMS "code" would probably work. No need for them to use GV, just their regular cell phone/number.

The whole physical address thing is convoluted; I file my Federal return using my Thailand address. I would plan to sign up with SSA using my Thailand address. I suspect my credit report(s) might list my UPS box address in the U.S.?

http://www.city-data.com/forum/retirement/2621225-logging-social-security-account-will-require-5.html

http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/4056841/social-security-discriminates-against-people-without-cell-phones

 

Edited August 1, 2016 by mtls2005

[CaptHaddock]

15 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I signed up in the US and still use my US address so I could keep the site open- However, now with this new system- I cannot get in as I do not have a US phone number- only a US Fax number- From what I understand Google Voice can be set up but can I use the fax number or do I need to find a relative or friend and use their phone number- and if so when I get Google Voice will the phone number I give be involved. Rather confusing to me. Frakly, SSA is going to kick millions off the site because many older people don't use text messaging and do not have cell phones that get texts and others just do not understand the system.  It would have been much easier to send the code to an email which is just as safe as a text message. Very shortsighted thinking but then again- most government agencies could care less about customer service.

You need to have a US cell or landline number (not a VOIP number) to sign up for Google Voice.  You can use the phone number of a friend, but that number can only be used once so it should be a friend who does not want his own GV number.  Once you have signed up with GV the friend's phone number need never be used again, although it remains recorded with GV.  Email is not as safe as a text message since it is sent unencrypted and passes through some number of servers on the way any one of whom can read the message.

I have thought for a long time that the SSA website was egregiously unsafe.  All of the information I used to register is more or less public, including my SS #.  Probably the new two-factor authentication is an improvement.  For most people at or near retirement age their SS benefits, calculated as a net present value, represent their most valuable asset.  So, I am glad they put the new system in place.  I would hate to have to prove my identity to the SSA if they were paying my benefits to someone else.

[Pib]

8 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

Anyway, I entered my Google Voice (GV) number and a second later I got the code in my Google Voice inbox. 

Excellent news.

Given that, I suspect most VoIP providers would work as well.

Do you have a U.S. address associated with your My SSA account?

 

Yes...a U.S. military APO address here in Thailand (I'm a mil retiree).   APO addresses are official U.S. postal addressees for mailing and other purposes.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, CaptHaddock said:

You need to have a US cell or landline number (not a VOIP number) to sign up for Google Voice.  You can use the phone number of a friend, but that number can only be used once so it should be a friend who does not want his own GV number.  Once you have signed up with GV the friend's phone number need never be used again, although it remains recorded with GV.  Email is not as safe as a text message since it is sent unencrypted and passes through some number of servers on the way any one of whom can read the message.

I have thought for a long time that the SSA website was egregiously unsafe.  All of the information I used to register is more or less public, including my SS #.  Probably the new two-factor authentication is an improvement.  For most people at or near retirement age their SS benefits, calculated as a net present value, represent their most valuable asset.  So, I am glad they put the new system in place.  I would hate to have to prove my identity to the SSA if they were paying my benefits to someone else.

My U.S. number is a VOIP number via NetTalk.  Netalk is one of those VOIP services like Vonage.

[CaptHaddock]

50 minutes ago, Pib said:

My U.S. number is a VOIP number via NetTalk.  Netalk is one of those VOIP services like Vonage.

Interesting.  GV claims it has to be cell or landline, not a VOIP number.  They didn't accept my Ooma VOIP number.  So some VOIP numbers are ok while others are not.

[Langsuan Man]

My US Bank, USAA,  started this text enabled cell phone requirement a few months ago.  At first it was limited to adding new accounts but now has expanded to include using it to "verify" your identity on other types of transactions.  They accepted the Google Voice (GV) number that a fellow Thai Visa member urged me to  obtain and have had no problems using it since 

Just tried to access my Social Security (while in the US) and when I input my Google Voice Number  I get the SMS security code via Google Voice number but the Social Security Page gives me an error message after I input it and will not let me go any farther.  So it must detect that it is not a "real" text enabled cell phone number.  Will continue to try but since it is currently during SS operating hours here in the US I think that the GV might not work in this instance :

 

Quote

We're sorry...

 

We cannot process your request at this time. Please try again later.

If you need immediate assistance: please contact us.

It is even more confusing if you look at the FAQ page and they state that you can receive the text overseas but overseas rates will apply.  Since Thai Internet providers don't charge you for receiving SMS messages while roaming overseas I wonder exactly who pays for the overseas SMS message ?

 

Quote

I am overseas?

Your text message rates will still apply. If you are overseas and cannot receive text messages or are concerned about roaming charges, please visit our website to learn more about our Services Around the World.

 

[Pib]

45 minutes ago, CaptHaddock said:

Interesting.  GV claims it has to be cell or landline, not a VOIP number.  They didn't accept my Ooma VOIP number.  So some VOIP numbers are ok while others are not.

We must be on different wavelengths in talking VOIP.   When I say VOIP in this case I'm talking a Vontage type service where you get a small adapter to hook between a router and desk/cordless phone.  It's a landline number....just provided via an internet connection versus a copper wire connection.   

Like I use Nettalk VOIP service which includes a little hardware adapter (called a Duo) you hook between your router and phone.  During activation of the device you pick a phone number from some area in the U.S....I picked one that is in my U.S. home town where I grew up and where a lot of family and friends live....that way when they call me it's just a local call to them...just like calling across the street.    MagicJack which you've probably hear up has a similar setup.  And when you get right down to it when you home phone number is provided over a fiber or DOCSIS line which is very common nowdays versus an old style phone line you are basically are using a VOIP service but it transparent to you.

http://www.nettalk.com/products/duo-comparison/

 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2016 by Pib

[kokesaat]

I posted this on a different thread (thaivisa.com/forum/topic/930541-social-security-from-us/#comment-11012524) but it appears this is a better suited thread for my question:

I received a notice from SSA " Annual Reminder to Review Your Social Security Statement " . Unfortunately, SSA just changed their log on procedures and now require you to receive a mobile phone text as before you can access your account.  There appears to be a provision to receive a phone text while overseas.......but the block for the mobile phone only accepts 10 digits.  So, if I enter +6687111-2222 it says there's an error.  Even if I drop the +.  

I realize this is a new security feature of the SSA system....anyone out there know how to receive a text from them with a Thai mobile phone #?

So, in short, it appears there is a provision for receiving sms's from SSA while overseas, but the website only allows for a 10 digit phone number.  Any ideas out there?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Re receiving official SMSs from the U.S.:

GoogleVoice as a receiving service seems to be pretty good. I can't recall a bank or financial service or other official thing where their SMSs haven't been able to be successfully registered using a GV number.

On the other hand, I've played with quite a few other VOIP providers where I could NOT register my U.S. VOIP phone number for U.S. SMS service.

MagicJack is another VOIP service, about $35 per year with a purchased dongle, where official SMSs seem to work fine. For paid MJ customers, SMSs can be sent and received via their Android app (and IOS also, I believe).

 

[CaptHaddock]

34 minutes ago, Pib said:

We must be on different wavelengths in talking VOIP.   When I say VOIP in this case I'm talking a Vontage type service where you get a small adapter to hook between a router and desk/cordless phone.  It's a landline number....just provided via an internet connection versus a copper wire connection.   

Like I use Nettalk VOIP service which includes a little hardware adapter (called a Duo) you hook between your router and phone.  During activation of the device you pick a phone number from some area in the U.S....I picked one that is in my U.S. home town where I grew up and where a lot of family and friends live....that way when they call me it's just a local call to them...just like calling across the street.    MagicJack which you've probably hear up has a similar setup.  And when you get right down to it when you home phone number is provided over a fiber or DOCSIS line which is very common nowdays versus an old style phone line you are basically are using a VOIP service but it transparent to you.

http://www.nettalk.com/products/duo-comparison/

 

 

 

A landline is a wired line connection to the PSTN through an ILEC or a CLEC.  VOIP service, including Vonage, MagicJack, Ooma and others provide service through a SIP router that sends the packetized voice information over the internet either directly to another VOIP connection or into the PSTN on its way to a landline phone.  Vonage is not a landline and its phone numbers are not landline numbers although they may once have been.  For instance, you could probably take your Vonage SIP router and plug into an internet router in Thailand and it would still work.  Ooma does.  You can't do that with a landline.  My Ooma number was once my Verizon landline number too, but it is a VOIP number now and GV knows it.

GV's stated intention is to require either a cell phone number or a landline number for authentication when registering for GV.  The obvious purpose is to limit service to US residents.  They specifically exclude VOIP numbers for that purpose, effectively in the case of Ooma, but not effectively in the case of  your nettalk phone apparently. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

fyi, here's the full text of the SSA email I received the other day on the subject of them adding 2nd factor auth via U.S. mobile numbers:

Quote

Starting in August 2016, Social Security is adding a new step to protect your privacy as a my Social Security user.  This new requirement is the result of an executive order for federal agencies to provide more secure authentication for their online services. Any agency that provides online access to a customer’s personal information must use multifactor authentication.

When you sign in at ssa.gov/myaccount with your username and password, we will ask you to add your text-enabled cell phone number.  The purpose of providing your cell phone number is that, each time you log in to your account with your username and password, we will send you a one-time security code you must also enter to log in successfully to your account.

Each time you sign into your account, you will complete two steps:

• Step 1:  Enter your username and password.
• Step 2:  Enter the security code we text to your cell phone (cell phone provider's text message and data rates may apply).

The process of using a one-time security code in addition to a username and password is one form of “multifactor authentication,” which means we are using more than one method to make sure you are the actual owner of your account. 

If you do not have a text-enabled cell phone or you do not wish to provide your cell phone number, you will not be able to access your my Social Security account. 

If you are unable or choose not to use my Social Security, there are other ways you can contact us.  To learn more, please review the Frequently Asked Questions found here.

 

 

Edited August 1, 2016 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[chubby]

6 hours ago, Pib said:

We must be on different wavelengths in talking VOIP.   When I say VOIP in this case I'm talking a Vontage type service where you get a small adapter to hook between a router and desk/cordless phone.  It's a landline number....just provided via an internet connection versus a copper wire connection.   

Like I use Nettalk VOIP service which includes a little hardware adapter (called a Duo) you hook between your router and phone.  During activation of the device you pick a phone number from some area in the U.S....I picked one that is in my U.S. home town where I grew up and where a lot of family and friends live....that way when they call me it's just a local call to them...just like calling across the street.    MagicJack which you've probably hear up has a similar setup.  And when you get right down to it when you home phone number is provided over a fiber or DOCSIS line which is very common nowdays versus an old style phone line you are basically are using a VOIP service but it transparent to you.

http://www.nettalk.com/products/duo-comparison/

 

 

 

so GV is not a "VOIP" number then? 

btw, instead of "vonage" try an Obi +GV, which is what I use. 

and instead of unsecure SMS, get a U2F Yubikey for $20 IMHO   at least for gmail, for lastpass you still need the combo key , though dashlane is using U2F. apparently LP is waiting for firefox to implement something before LP starts using U2F. 

do all Social security people, HAVE to log on to the website, or is that something you do for convenience?

 

http://www.zdnet.com/article/google-unveils-5-year-roadmap-for-strong-authentication/

 

fwiw, GV signup is gonna require another US number, not another GV number to allow you to set it up, once it is setup, it probably can be turned off, but probably will remain as you backup number if you get locked out.

[mtls2005]

I signed for a few GV numbers ages ago, maybe I used my mJ number for verification, maybe I signed up during a trip to the U.S.

GV still cannot handle all SC-SMS, you can read up on this in the GV forum. A lot depends on the bulk provider used.

Assuming you have a smartphone you should be able to get a free 10-digit number with Talkatone - that works fine for free calls and SMSes - I use it all the time to SMS with folks who only use that format. You may even be able to sign up for GV using Talkatone? I am pretty sure I did that for a friend (here in Thailand - I pretty much try to talk everyone into doing this when working on their Android device) who wanted a GV number recently. I don't think GV necessarily keeps track of the phone you used for initial authentication? You can add countless additional phones, for forwarding, and any one for recovery.

GV, Talkatone, and all alternate providers offer up numbers from a fixed pool, which they have to lease, Given how easy it is to port in/out in the U.S. there really is no way to follow the status (fixed, voip, mobile) of a particular number. But some SC-SMS providers will only have gateways to cellular providers.

I too use an oBI 200, which can be provisioned with up to 4 GV numbers, or any combo of voip/sip/gv; I use it for two GV numbers, very handy. Obsoleted my mJ, am considering porting mJ out to another GV number.

It seems like everyone is reporting success with receiving the my SSA SMS via GV?

 

Edited August 2, 2016 by mtls2005

[Pib]

5 hours ago, chubby said:

do all Social security people, HAVE to log on to the website, or is that something you do for convenience?

You do not have to have a social security account....it's basically a convenience thing related to your social security/medicare benefits, now or in the future.   For some one not drawing benefits regardless of your age, young or old, probably the only real advantage is being able to get a Social Security statement at any time which shows your future benefits, social security earnings record, etc. 

See this SSA webpage for what an account can be used for: https://www.ssa.gov/myaccount/ 

[ubonjoe]

I have survived over 4 years without having a online account set up. At first it was because it was not allowed if living overseas. Now it is needing a US address to use when enrolling and now it is the SMS thing they have started.

I changed my address which is the only thing I have needed to do that I could of done online. That was done by email to Manila.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

16 hours ago, Langsuan Man said:

Just tried to access my Social Security (while in the US) and when I input my Google Voice Number  I get the SMS security code via Google Voice number but the Social Security Page gives me an error message after I input it and will not let me go any farther.  So it must detect that it is not a "real" text enabled cell phone number.  Will continue to try but since it is currently during SS operating hours here in the US I think that the GV might not work in this instance :

 

 

That's interesting.

If it's true that SSA will not accept GV numbers, that would be the first SMS verification process that I've ever encountered that would not work with GV.

It's been very good for SMS verification in all other respects.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 hours ago, Pib said:

You do not have to have a social security account....it's basically a convenience thing related to your social security/medicare benefits, now or in the future.   For some one not drawing benefits regardless of your age, young or old, probably the only real advantage is being able to get a Social Security statement at any time which shows your future benefits, social security earnings record, etc. 

See this SSA webpage for what an account can be used for: https://www.ssa.gov/myaccount/ 

One difference is that the SSA used to automatically mail out annual statements giving people the status/update of their Social Security accounts.

Then a few years ago, they stopped doing those mailings, understandable in the modern era. But they replaced those with online access to that same information and those same statements.

Unfortunately, now, if you can't do their U.S. SMS verification, apparently, you're going to be locked out of that online access. And still won't be receiving their mailed annual statement documents.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

11 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

That's interesting.

If it's true that SSA will not accept GV numbers, that would be the first SMS verification process that I've ever encountered that would not work with GV.

It's been very good for SMS verification in all other respects.

 

Tried the SS site just now, and apparently it's closed and after hours.

However, I did see the following warning message on their webpage

Quote

Update: Due to high volume of traffic to our website, you may experience problems receiving your security code via text message or entering the security code you receive. The problem preventing all Verizon wireless customers from receiving the cell phone security code has been fixed. Please check back in a few days.

So, we may not want to reach any final conclusion about GV compatibility just yet.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Meanwhile, I did see that SSA does still have an option for people to manually request a single SS statement sent by postal mail.

https://www.ssa.gov/hlp/global/hlp-statement-7004-revi.htm

[Pib]

41 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Meanwhile, I did see that SSA does still have an option for people to manually request a single SS statement sent by postal mail.

https://www.ssa.gov/hlp/global/hlp-statement-7004-revi.htm

Yes, they did implement the manual request method after initially saying if you didn't establish a Social Security online account you were just out of luck...but they backed off of that stance after a year or so...guess to many people bitched...like the ones who couldn't get an online account established.   The wife used this method once when she couldn't get the online account established...but later she did get it established.   And during that one time of manually requesting the statement they came back with a request for a copy of some ID to confirm her ID...responded to that request with a copy of her U.S. drivers license I think and then a month or so later she got the statement.   Boy, it was somewhat of a pain and couple of months to finally get the statement. 

I expect like earlier reported in this thread that they will also lighten-up on the 2 factor logon "via SMS only"...like also sending to your email address.  But then again, it does seem that the slow movement to 2 factor logon by govt agencies, banks, etc., continues to march slowly forward.   They will say it's to protect you, but a lot of it is to protect them since govt/company databases continue to get hacked....like the Office of Personnel Management (OPM) hack last year.   And we don't find out about it to months or even years later (if we even find out as I just know some companies cover up times they get hacked...or don't even know they were hacked).

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

It's true. Even if SS ends up later adding other means of verification beyond U.S. SMSs, it's probably a smart move for U.S. expats to one way or another come up with a way to receive U.S. SMSs.

Worth noting that the SSA didn't just make up this latest policy on their own. According to the SS website, they did so in response to a presidential executive order directed at all federal agencies aimed to enhancing security for citizens online information held by federal agencies. Multi factor authentication probably will become an increasing element of any federal online transactions.

[Thaidream]

Multi factor authentication is fine but they need to give more than one option. My bank can use text; replies to security questions; send a code to email or calling them to get the code. In addition, it can read the computer you generally use for log in.  If a private enterprise can do all of this- the US government can and should. Th fact is that the bureaucrats running SSA and IRS refuse to come into the modern world and instead inconvenience the general public. All government agencies exist on tax dollars which many of us have paid and still pay.  I am constantly amazed at the lack of interest for customer service by government agencies in the US.  The IRS refuses to  answer any questions re tax issues by email. You either have to phone them and wait up to an hour to speak to a rep or use fax to send and receive documents.  One last thing about the Social Security code- it is only good for 10 minutes. 

[kokesaat]

Problem solved.  I don't have a google voice account.....instead, I know my daughter's schedule (back in the US).  I sent her a LINE message telling her I'd be logging onto SSA.gov and would use her mobile phone for the security code.  She texted me back a few minutes later with the code, I entered it, and logged on successfully.

Mission accomplished.

[Langsuan Man]

7 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Tried the SS site just now, and apparently it's closed and after hours.

However, I did see the following warning message on their webpage

So, we may not want to reach any final conclusion about GV compatibility just yet.

 

 

John is correct:  Just tried it again a 9:00 AM EDT (2 Aug)  and this time it accepted my Google Voice number and allowed me to continue on to use mySocial Security web portal 

So the error message I received yesterday must have been a result of this report, (even though I am not a Verizon wireless customer):

Quote

Update: Due to high volume of traffic to our website, you may experience problems receiving your security code via text message or entering the security code you receive. The problem preventing all Verizon wireless customers from receiving the cell phone security code has been fixed. Please check back in a few days.

At least for me, the GV question has been answered, and for clarity I obtained the GV number using my MagicJack number for verification.  Could never get the MagicJack Android app to work (which allows SMS to MJ) so had to get a Google Voice number for banking as reported previously 

[Pib]

Just a few minutes ago at 8:50pm Bankgok time I logged onto my SSA account.  Within a second of hitting the send me the code, it was in my GV Inbox and another second later GV had forwarded a copy into my gmail email account.  Working fine with GV.

[Thaidream]

Can you get Google Voice while overseas or do you need a US location on your computer? If so, how can you use a computer in Thailand that has a US Ip Address? I suppose one can get a free US number assigned  and use that number to veerify GV and then you are in business or use my daughters number in America and have her verify it when I send the verification code. Any of this correct?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

It's been years since I did all these setups, but in general (and I hope others will chime in, as needed):

 

--it's certainly possible to set up a U.S. Google Voice account from here. Doing so on a PC with a U.S. VPN running (that provides a U.S. IP address) is probably the best way and/or required. And you'll need a U.S. phone number that will be linked to the new GV account and can receive the code that Google will send to that U.S. number as part of the verification process.

 

If I recall right, each regular U.S. phone number can only be linked to one Google Voice account. So whatever U.S. number you're planning to use can't already have been used anywhere else to set up another/different active GV account.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

Just a few minutes ago at 8:50pm Bankgok time I logged onto my SSA account.  Within a second of hitting the send me the code, it was in my GV Inbox and another second later GV had forwarded a copy into my gmail email account.  Working fine with GV.

 

Glad to hear that. As I posted above, I've yet to encounter any official (bank, govt., etc) SMS transaction that I can recall where Google Voice has not handled it successfully.

[chubby]

I am curious, when you log on to the SS webpage, do you do it ON or OFF of the VPN ?

 

I am not sure whom I trust least Thai ISPs, (esp with shared IPs on a group condo provided connection) or even my own private IP on a Thai ISP  vs. my VPN....

sorry if off topic

[chubby]

https://krebsonsecurity.com/2016/08/social-security-administration-now-requires-two-factor-authentication/

 

https://tech.slashdot.org/story/16/07/25/233215/nist-prepares-to-ban-sms-based-two-factor-authentication