First results in UK's historic referendum on EU membership

[Gweiloman]

Despite the feet stamping hysterics of certain EU officials

The German government is saying there will be no informal discussions between Britain and the European Union before the British government has invoked formal divorce proceedings by making a request under article 50 of the Lisbon treaty, a German government spokesman said this morning.

According to Reuters, Steffen Seibert, a spokesman for Angela Merkel, told a briefing:

One thing is clear: before Britain has sent this request there will be no informal preliminary talks about the modalities of leaving.

Only when Britain has made the request according to article 50 will the European Council draw up guidelines in consensus for an exit agreement.

At least they are being consistent... invoke article 50 and leave....

Whereas Brits seem to not want to actually leave...

I don't understand why you keep banging on that the Brexiters don't want to actually leave. Have you heard any of the LEAVE leaders come out and say that they have made a mistake?

The UK is now in unchartered territory. Parliament has to vote on whether to leave or not. I think it is unclear as to how this motion should be set before parliament at this stage. Should it be the PM or can it be just any ordinary MP? If it should be the PM, then Cameron has effectively blocked this by not stepping down till October.

[Caps]

Despite the feet stamping hysterics of certain EU officials

The German government is saying there will be no informal discussions between Britain and the European Union before the British government has invoked formal divorce proceedings by making a request under article 50 of the Lisbon treaty, a German government spokesman said this morning.

According to Reuters, Steffen Seibert, a spokesman for Angela Merkel, told a briefing:

One thing is clear: before Britain has sent this request there will be no informal preliminary talks about the modalities of leaving.

Only when Britain has made the request according to article 50 will the European Council draw up guidelines in consensus for an exit agreement.

Thats fair enough

[MissAndry]

Whereas Brits seem to not want to actually leave...

About 65% of the English do want to leave, unfortunately none of them are elected MPs.

I can't really speak for the British, as I don't care what Scots or N. Irish want.

They're just more foreigners to me.

[chiang mai]

Gawd no, you're Welsh, save us all!

[mommysboy]

Whereas Brits seem to not want to actually leave...

About 65% of the English do want to leave, unfortunately none of them are elected MPs.

I can't really speak for the British, as I don't care what Scots or N. Irish want.

They're just more foreigners to me.

The overwhelming majority of MPs in the House of Commons are 'remain'. I think it is about 70%. Even within the Tory Party I think it is 50/50.

[mommysboy]

Despite the feet stamping hysterics of certain EU officials

The German government is saying there will be no informal discussions between Britain and the European Union before the British government has invoked formal divorce proceedings by making a request under article 50 of the Lisbon treaty, a German government spokesman said this morning.

According to Reuters, Steffen Seibert, a spokesman for Angela Merkel, told a briefing:

One thing is clear: before Britain has sent this request there will be no informal preliminary talks about the modalities of leaving.

Only when Britain has made the request according to article 50 will the European Council draw up guidelines in consensus for an exit agreement.

Thats fair enough

Guess, they've just made it a longer process. Seems like shooting yourself in the foot is catching!

[mommysboy]

Most of the remainers on here talks incessantly about immigration and the 350 million that was meant to be ploughed back into the NHS. These are just the populist issues and not the underlying reasons that LEAVE won.

I wonder how many of the remainers were open minded enough to watch and listen to the other side. Talks by Lord Owen, Rees Mogg etc. You will find that immigration is not the key issue - it is just one of many. Also, if Britain were to save 10 billion pounds a year, don't you think that some of this will inevitable find it's way into the NHS.

However, I think it has to do with a patriotic issue - that is the continued loss of sovereignity if the UK sought ever deepening ties with the United States of Europe

Yes I'm reading up about this more and more, and this is the conclusion I have reached. I don't think Britain is to bothered about immigration per se, just wants to have some control over it.

[Caps]

Thats fair enough

Guess, they've just made it a longer process. Seems like shooting yourself in the foot is catching!

Why?

[mommysboy]

Thats fair enough

Guess, they've just made it a longer process. Seems like shooting yourself in the foot is catching!

Why?

Well informal talks pave the way to formal talks. By not agreeing to them EU drags out the process. It means that if/when Article 50 is enacted, then both parties are ill prepared for what's next.

Therefore, if EU wants shot of UK quickly, it has shot itself in the foot on this one.

But it makes you wonder who really wants what, doesn't it?

Edited June 27, 2016 by mommysboy

[jonnyramone]

England was indipendent already, his policy was already very "different" and "unique" comparing the EU member States...This vote is full nonsense. England has always done what it wanted in EU as in the World. The immigration issue is just a populist lie , a kind of right-wing governments duty. In the last european summit , Cameron rejected all the EU proposals regarding an equal distribution of immigrants coming from middle east area...And Europe, as always, accepted . UK was already safe from any "immigrant" issue. About the economic issue, someone forgot that England already declined to join euro money so it can actually control its own economy in a much better way than the countries who have joined it.The story that UK economy was struggling because EU is simply ridiculous....It will struggle now.

An example is Ireland, wich was in the PIIGS countries (Portugal,Ireland,Italy,Grece,Spain) and despite EU and euro money has outpaced other developed economies over the past two years , better than any emerging countries (Ireland GDP is + 9.2 , better than China ).

I'm sorry to say but England's vote has nothing to do with EU, Angela Merkel or Junker...I see only a populist vote and an imperial nostalgia ...all led by a Tories war.

Edited June 27, 2016 by jonnyramone

[bkkcanuck8]

At least they are being consistent... invoke article 50 and leave....

Whereas Brits seem to not want to actually leave...

I don't understand why you keep banging on that the Brexiters don't want to actually leave. Have you heard any of the LEAVE leaders come out and say that they have made a mistake?

The UK is now in unchartered territory. Parliament has to vote on whether to leave or not. I think it is unclear as to how this motion should be set before parliament at this stage. Should it be the PM or can it be just any ordinary MP? If it should be the PM, then Cameron has effectively blocked this by not stepping down till October.

Because they are very reluctant to start the process. Often the start of negotiations are all done by bureaucrats and technocrats - the politicians get involved when there is disagreements that the technocrats can't resolve (i.e. the points that they feel needs political will to resolve). Do you think the politicians actually spend their time i.e. thousands and thousands of hours in the minutia of working out trade deals. Only initializing and finalizing do the politicians actually get that involved in the process. The leave members seem to be very very quiet.... almost hiding. Merkel's willingness to go slow is she feels the hesitance and wants to wait and see if the UK politicians can figure a way to wiggle out of accepting the referendum.... not because she thinks it should be delayed just for the fun of it.

There is a tonne of work that needs to be done on things that can be done without the politicians at this point.... the only reason to delay starting is to find a way out...

[Caps]

At least they are being consistent... invoke article 50 and leave....

Whereas Brits seem to not want to actually leave...

I don't understand why you keep banging on that the Brexiters don't want to actually leave. Have you heard any of the LEAVE leaders come out and say that they have made a mistake?

The UK is now in unchartered territory. Parliament has to vote on whether to leave or not. I think it is unclear as to how this motion should be set before parliament at this stage. Should it be the PM or can it be just any ordinary MP? If it should be the PM, then Cameron has effectively blocked this by not stepping down till October.

Because they are very reluctant to start the process. Often the start of negotiations are all done by bureaucrats and technocrats - the politicians get involved when there is disagreements that the technocrats can't resolve (i.e. the points that they feel needs political will to resolve). Do you think the politicians actually spend their time i.e. thousands and thousands of hours in the minutia of working out trade deals. Only initializing and finalizing do the politicians actually get that involved in the process. The leave members seem to be very very quiet.... almost hiding. Merkel's willingness to go slow is she feels the hesitance and wants to wait and see if the UK politicians can figure a way to wiggle out of accepting the referendum.... not because she thinks it should be delayed just for the fun of it.

There is a tonne of work that needs to be done on things that can be done without the politicians at this point.... the only reason to delay starting is to find a way out...

Reluctant..No...Cautious may be and they have every right to be its a big step. As for trade...there is distinct lack of Trade negotiators in the UK and those who can are getting on a bit (allegedly) that just goes to show how much we were under the thumb of the EU and they did most of the the agreements.

Anyway I am pretty sure that Canada didn't rush in to the Canada Act of 1982 with the UK Government as it was to amend the Constitution , I am pretty sure it would have been well thought out and planned before instigating it and getting it passed in the UK Parliament. Did that not then make you an Independent country rather than a Territory? But still in the Commonwealth?

Thats all we want... Independent Country in Europe

It will be done when we are good and ready not when Non British folk tell us to

Edited June 28, 2016 by Caps

[Johnyo]

After having read Boris Johnson yesterday and seen various of the comments from the leading Brexit team this is my take on what will happen. Britain will remain in the Single Market and will pay for the privilege of free trade, it won't pay as much as it pays now but will pay nevertheless. Britain will still have to abide by all the regulations to sell into the single market. There will still be immigration but controlled ( job offer before arrival). Finally Britain won't have to answer politically to Brussels, instead the people will get shafted by British politicians instead. All in all nothing much is going to change.. The people who voted Brexit because of immigration won't see any notable changes on the street and the ones who voted to take back control well you still have to deal with British politicians so not that much change either.

[MissAndry]

After having read Boris Johnson yesterday and seen various of the comments from the leading Brexit team this is my take on what will happen. Britain will remain in the Single Market and will pay for the privilege of free trade, it won't pay as much as it pays now but will pay nevertheless. Britain will still have to abide by all the regulations to sell into the single market. There will still be immigration but controlled ( job offer before arrival). Finally Britain won't have to answer politically to Brussels, instead the people will get shafted by British politicians instead. All in all nothing much is going to change.. The people who voted Brexit because of immigration won't see any notable changes on the street and the ones who voted to take back control well you still have to deal with British politicians so not that much change either.

I'd rather British politicians (corrupt or not) than German politicians.

Edited June 28, 2016 by MissAndry

[Johnyo]

After having read Boris Johnson yesterday and seen various of the comments from the leading Brexit team this is my take on what will happen. Britain will remain in the Single Market and will pay for the privilege of free trade, it won't pay as much as it pays now but will pay nevertheless. Britain will still have to abide by all the regulations to sell into the single market. There will still be immigration but controlled ( job offer before arrival). Finally Britain won't have to answer politically to Brussels, instead the people will get shafted by British politicians instead. All in all nothing much is going to change.. The people who voted Brexit because of immigration won't see any notable changes on the street and the ones who voted to take back control well you still have to deal with British politicians so not that much change either.

I'd rather British politicians (corrupt or not) than German politicians.

Yeah great!! Better get shafted by the devil you know. If you believe that any of the parasites who have been in power in the UK for the last 20 years give a s..t about you then think again.

[Kwasaki]

At least they are being consistent... invoke article 50 and leave....

Whereas Brits seem to not want to actually leave...

I don't understand why you keep banging on that the Brexiters don't want to actually leave. Have you heard any of the LEAVE leaders come out and say that they have made a mistake?

The UK is now in unchartered territory. Parliament has to vote on whether to leave or not. I think it is unclear as to how this motion should be set before parliament at this stage. Should it be the PM or can it be just any ordinary MP? If it should be the PM, then Cameron has effectively blocked this by not stepping down till October.

Because they are very reluctant to start the process. Often the start of negotiations are all done by bureaucrats and technocrats - the politicians get involved when there is disagreements that the technocrats can't resolve (i.e. the points that they feel needs political will to resolve). Do you think the politicians actually spend their time i.e. thousands and thousands of hours in the minutia of working out trade deals. Only initializing and finalizing do the politicians actually get that involved in the process. The leave members seem to be very very quiet.... almost hiding. Merkel's willingness to go slow is she feels the hesitance and wants to wait and see if the UK politicians can figure a way to wiggle out of accepting the referendum.... not because she thinks it should be delayed just for the fun of it.

There is a tonne of work that needs to be done on things that can be done without the politicians at this point.... the only reason to delay starting is to find a way out...

Reading posts I don't think you have understood the rules, time limits and practices that are in place for the UK.

The other thing I notice is nobody is saying goody goody my export business is doing great at the moment.

[Ace of Pop]

[MissAndry]

The other thing I notice is nobody is saying goody goody my export business is doing great at the moment.

That's probably because the three people the EU left in the UK with an export business are busy planning for a future.

Edited June 28, 2016 by MissAndry

[Kwasaki]

The other thing I notice is nobody is saying goody goody my export business is doing great at the moment.

That's probably because the three people the EU left in the UK with an export business are busy planning for a future.

Well the business minister forget name she is so bitter and twisted she didn't even mention smaller export business only 1 small business that had lost a contract because of the way the vote went.