So what did the Brexit supporters gain?

[SgtRock]

1 minute ago, sandyf said:

You can beg all you want, the courts requested she wait until after the hearings had been concluded and she agreed.

She had no choice because she relinquished it, but you are quite entitled to interpret it as a tactical move.

 

 Sandy, Sandy, Sandy

 

Key phrases:

 

'' courts requested ''

 

'' she agreed ''

 

This does not equate to having no choice.

 

She could still have invoked A50 and let the legal process take its natural course. It also does not explain why just about everyone expected Cameron to invoke A50 the day after the referendum instead of resigning.

 

The longer she delays, the stronger the UK's hand will get. The main points are in my post that you quoted, but it was nice to see you focus on 4 little words.

[sandyf]

3 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

 

 Sandy, Sandy, Sandy

 

Key phrases:

 

'' courts requested ''

 

'' she agreed ''

 

This does not equate to having no choice.

 

She could still have invoked A50 and let the legal process take its natural course. It also does not explain why just about everyone expected Cameron to invoke A50 the day after the referendum instead of resigning.

 

The longer she delays, the stronger the UK's hand will get. The main points are in my post that you quoted, but it was nice to see you focus on 4 little words.

I can understand your confusion, orders are the order of the day in your world.

[sandyf]

The political structure in the UK has evolved over several hundred years. If it is the general view that it is no longer fit for purpose then the constitution must be changed. Until that happens decisions cannot be taken outside the process either by a referendum or a single entity.

Parliament is sovereign and prerogative power cannot overrule parliament, it can only be used when there is a clear indication it would be the intention of parliament.

If this is such a clear and decisive move for the UK then there should be no problem following proper parliamentary procedure. Teresa May is trying to set a very dangerous precedent and establish autocratic power.

[SgtRock]

4 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I can understand your confusion, orders are the order of the day in your world.

 

The confusion is all yours.

 

A court request is not an order.

 

A court ruling is usually an order of some description.

 

Now perhaps you could explain why nearly everyone expected Cameron to invoke A50 the day after the Referendum if it is such a big issue that the Courts have to get involved ?

 

Actually the Courts never got involved, it was bitter remoaners that launched legal challenges

 

The Attorney General

 

Quote

The people of the United Kingdom have spoken and their sovereignty must be respected. The people of the United Kingdom have made their decision on whether to leave the European Union, and we will respect it.

 

Quote

I can assist my hon. Friend and his constituents to this extent. Article 50 is article 50 of the treaty on European Union and therefore copies of it are kept in all sorts of places. I am not sure whether there is one in my desk, but what it says is:

 

“A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention.”

 

As I have said, it will be for the UK Government to do that at a time of their choosing.

 

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2016-07-21/debates/16072149000017/Article50OfTheTreatyOnEuropeanUnion

[AlexRich]

 

One to chew over? 

 

The House of Lords Constitution Committee today publishes a report, The invoking of Article 50, in which it states that Government should not trigger Article 50 without consulting Parliament. The Committee says it would be 'constitutionally inappropriate' and would set 'a disturbing precedent' for the Government to act on the referendum without explicit parliamentary approval. 

 

https://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/lords-select/constitution-committee/news-parliament-2015/article-50-report/

[evadgib]

Committee to hold seminar on referendums in the UK

[Khun Han]

 

"I'll repeat for the hard of hearing ... Juncker is an irrelevance ... he acts only with the authority of the member states ... an empty vessel."

 

The European Commission is the EU's executive body, effectively it's Cabinet of ministers. And Jean Claude Juncker is the President of that Cabinet.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Commission

 

I don't recall anybody of note contradicting Juncker on the European superstate, so I will ask again: why doesn't anybody from the remain camp want to discuss this key EU policy of a superstate?

[NanLaew]

5 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

One to chew over? 

 

The House of Lords Constitution Committee today publishes a report, The invoking of Article 50, in which it states that Government should not trigger Article 50 without consulting Parliament. The Committee says it would be 'constitutionally inappropriate' and would set 'a disturbing precedent' for the Government to act on the referendum without explicit parliamentary approval. 

 

https://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/lords-select/constitution-committee/news-parliament-2015/article-50-report/

Absolutely nothing wrong with getting parliament to rubber stamp the people's wish to leave the EU.

 

I am not sure about this bit though, ".... We all want the negotiations to produce a deal that works for both the UK and the EU, and Parliament must be involved in holding the Government to account in delivering that." There's absolutely no need for Britain's fine, upstanding parliamentarians to worry their pretty little heads about the government getting a deal that works for the EU. That's up to the EU to negotiate for with the UK government after Article 50 gets triggered.

[SgtRock]

5 hours ago, NanLaew said:

There's absolutely no need for Britain's fine, upstanding parliamentarians to worry their pretty little heads about the government getting a deal that works for the EU. That's up to the EU to negotiate for with the UK government after Article 50 gets triggered.

 

There are far too many people in this world that have never heard of, never mind understand the phrase:

 

'' Too many cooks spoil the broth ''

 

This is especially true for people that have never actually had a job. 4 years at Uni and straight into politics is hardly a good, solid grounding in real life.

[SgtRock]

Now from something completely different, from a German no less:

 

Quote

Mathias Döpfner, head of Europe’s largest newspaper group, says continent may suffer more from exit than UK itself

 

Quote

A post-Brexit Britain could become “highly attractive” to foreign investors put off by conditions inside the European Union, according to the head of Europe’s largest newspaper publisher.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/27/brexit-britain-highly-attractive-to-investors-says-foreign-publisher

 

This is exactly what I have been pointing out in various posts.

 

Conditions inside the EU are far from the harmony and unity that the so called leaders froth about.

 

March / April 2017 the deep divisions within the EU will start to come to the fore. The catalyst, MONEY

 

Just think Slovenia and Belgrade / Yugoslavia. History is about to repeat itself in a generation.

 

This might just kick it all a bit earlier:

 

Quote

It's no surprise Berlin is telling Deutsche Bank it's on its own

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/nils-pratley-on-finance/2016/sep/26/its-no-surprise-berlin-is-telling-deutsche-bank-its-on-its-own

[JB300]

Absolutely nothing wrong with getting parliament to rubber stamp the people's wish to leave the EU.

 

I am not sure about this bit though, ".... We all want the negotiations to produce a deal that works for both the UK and the EU, and Parliament must be involved in holding the Government to account in delivering that." There's absolutely no need for Britain's fine, upstanding parliamentarians to worry their pretty little heads about the government getting a deal that works for the EU. That's up to the EU to negotiate for with the UK government after Article 50 gets triggered.

That's not very British of you old chap...

But seriously, it's the same "Win-Win" statement every Senior Stakeholder says when going into a negotiation, better to negotiate amicably than get their backs up before you start.

[cumgranosalum]

Brexiteers still have no consensus or even idea on what they should do.....

 

"Theresa May has had an assured start as Prime Minister, and brought some calm to the storm caused by the vote to leave the EU. But divisions have emerged quickly along with contradictory statements from UK Brexit ministers." - Independent

 

"Ignore all advice from UK's Brexit ministers, British diplomats tell European business leaders" - independent

 

"David Davis, the news Brexit Secretary, was slapped down by Theresa May after he claimed it was “very improbable” the UK will remain a member of the single market if it means accepting free movement of people." - Indy

 

 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[cumgranosalum]

2 hours ago, SgtRock said:

 

There are far too many people in this world that have never heard of, never mind understand the phrase:

 

'' Too many cooks spoil the broth ''

 

This is especially true for people that have never actually had a job. 4 years at Uni and straight into politics is hardly a good, solid grounding in real life.

in particular as now we have a much smaller bowl of broth and about the same number of but  much stronger plutocracy..........check out the UK cabinet.

Edited September 27, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[Kwasaki]

3 hours ago, SgtRock said:

 

There are far too many people in this world that have never heard of, never mind understand the phrase:

 

'' Too many cooks spoil the broth ''

 

This is especially true for people that have never actually had a job. 4 years at Uni and straight into politics is hardly a good, solid grounding in real life.

 

Well you would hardly expect them to mix with the grubby general public. 

[rockingrobin]

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/World/2016/Sep-26/373843-boris-johnson-britain-to-continue-support-turkeys-eu-bid.ashx

 

 

Edited September 27, 2016 by rockingrobin

[SgtRock]

21 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/World/2016/Sep-26/373843-boris-johnson-britain-to-continue-support-turkeys-eu-bid.ashx

 

 

 

Johnson can say what he likes about Turkey joining the EU. The UK will be out of the EU long before Turkey joins ( if ever ) the EU, therefore what Johnston has to say is irrelevant.

 

Unsurprisingly you missed this little nugget from the same rag, that further highlights the deep divisions within the EU.

 

Quote

EU parliament backs visa-free travel for Ukraine, hurdles remain

 

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/World/2016/Sep-26/373838-eu-parliament-backs-visa-free-travel-for-ukraine-hurdles-remain.ashx

 

Not only is it causing division within the EU it will also ruffle Russian feathers. Hide problems by creating new problems. Way to go EU. Nothing like a good old fashioned war when things are starting to go down the plughole.

[AlexRich]

9 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Absolutely nothing wrong with getting parliament to rubber stamp the people's wish to leave the EU.

 

I am not sure about this bit though, ".... We all want the negotiations to produce a deal that works for both the UK and the EU, and Parliament must be involved in holding the Government to account in delivering that." There's absolutely no need for Britain's fine, upstanding parliamentarians to worry their pretty little heads about the government getting a deal that works for the EU. That's up to the EU to negotiate for with the UK government after Article 50 gets triggered.

 

I quite agree ... given their negotiation advantages, the EU don't need any help from Parliament or the Lords.

[Ace of Pop]

The Daily Star Lebanon..?look at the top Line


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[rockingrobin]

8 minutes ago, Ace of Pop said:

The Daily Star Lebanon..?look at the top Line


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-09-26/britain-s-boris-johnson-visits-syrian-refugee-camp-in-turkey

 

Seems a bit baffling that during  the  campaign Turkeys membership was a  reason to leave , but brexit uk will support its bid

[Khun Han]

"Can you show me where I suggest that "the EU is an incredibly powerful entity that easily overcomes problems and will have all it's own way in brexit negotiations"?

 

"I quite agree ... given their negotiation advantages, the EU don't need any help from Parliament or the Lords."

 

 

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, JB300 said:

That's not very British of you old chap...

But seriously, it's the same "Win-Win" statement every Senior Stakeholder says when going into a negotiation, better to negotiate amicably than get their backs up before you start.

Oh I think we are already well up Jean-Claude's back already.

 

As Lance Corporal Jones famously intoned, "They don't like it up 'em."

[rockingrobin]

33 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

 

Johnson can say what he likes about Turkey joining the EU. The UK will be out of the EU long before Turkey joins ( if ever ) the EU, therefore what Johnston has to say is irrelevant.

 

Unsurprisingly you missed this little nugget from the same rag, that further highlights the deep divisions within the EU.

 

 

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/World/2016/Sep-26/373838-eu-parliament-backs-visa-free-travel-for-ukraine-hurdles-remain.ashx

 

Not only is it causing division within the EU it will also ruffle Russian feathers. Hide problems by creating new problems. Way to go EU. Nothing like a good old fashioned war when things are starting to go down the plughole.

No I did see the link , it is only a committee that is  backing the visa for Ukraine.At present  if it  gets to  the council  it will be blocked unnles events change.

I was more interested in the  article about US bankers lobbying the UK and EU to make a mutual favorable deal

[Ace of Pop]

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Khun Han]

5 hours ago, SgtRock said:

Now from something completely different, from a German no less:

 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/27/brexit-britain-highly-attractive-to-investors-says-foreign-publisher

 

This is exactly what I have been pointing out in various posts.

 

Conditions inside the EU are far from the harmony and unity that the so called leaders froth about.

 

March / April 2017 the deep divisions within the EU will start to come to the fore. The catalyst, MONEY

 

Just think Slovenia and Belgrade / Yugoslavia. History is about to repeat itself in a generation.

 

This might just kick it all a bit earlier:

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/nils-pratley-on-finance/2016/sep/26/its-no-surprise-berlin-is-telling-deutsche-bank-its-on-its-own

 

Why would Merkel shirk a bailout of Deutsche Bank of 8bn Euros? It's just a 'rounding error' for Germany's economy according one poster on here.

 

Makes one wonder how Germany's electorate would react if Merkel told them that Germany was surrendering most of the profit from it's huge export market to the UK in order to support the EU giving those troublesome Brits a bloody brexit nose (not that that's actually going to happen).

Edited September 27, 2016 by Khun Han

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

"Can you show me where I suggest that "the EU is an incredibly powerful entity that easily overcomes problems and will have all it's own way in brexit negotiations"?

 

"I quite agree ... given their negotiation advantages, the EU don't need any help from Parliament or the Lords."

 

 

 

Simple ... they have the negotiation advantage after Article 50 is invoked, a two year ticking bomb that was specifically designed to make it advantageous to them. 

 

Again, please show where I call the EU "incredibly powerful", "easily overcome problems", "have all its own way in negotiations"? The EU can only do what member states allow them to do ... and Juncker is a minor actor with no power unless backed by member states. 

 

Again, trying to frame other people's statements using your own words... show the quotes from me or anyone on here?

 

[Khun Han]

^ I did warn that he'd get pedantic over this (he's done it before) .

[AlexRich]

6 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Why would Merkel shirk a bailout of Deutsche Bank of 8bn Euros? It's just a 'rounding error' for Germany's economy according one poster on here.

 

Makes one wonder how Germany's electorate would react if Merkel told them that Germany was surrendering most of the profit from it's huge export market to the UK in order to support the EU giving those troublesome Brits a bloody brexit nose (not that that's actually going to happen).

 

For the same reason that Italy have been told they are not allowed to bail out domestic banks - a rule change introduced after the financial crisis ... but in my view they will because they have no choice but to ... as will Italy. 

 

[AlexRich]

1 minute ago, Khun Han said:

^ I did warn that he'd get pedantic over this (he's done it before) .

 

Just highlighting your lies and hypocrisy ... 

 

[Khun Han]

18 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

For the same reason that Italy have been told they are not allowed to bail out domestic banks - a rule change introduced after the financial crisis ... but in my view they will because they have no choice but to ... as will Italy. 

 

 

Well, I suppose rules are there to be broken, aren't they? 

[Khun Han]

20 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

^ I did warn that he'd get pedantic over this (he's done it before) .

 

This one's not bad. But the one involving the Essex comedian on Question Time was great. He was squirming around like a worm on a pin, creating ever more complex lies about which poster said what to whom about what, in order to try to cover his tracks. It was just hilarious .