Brexit: why British expats are worried

[rooster59]

Brexit: why British expats are worried

By Catherine Hardy



Javea is a beach resort on the Costa del Sol.

British expats began moving to the small beach-side town in the 60s and 70s. Their numbers swelled further after Spain joined with Brussels in 1986.

Figures from 2014 show Spain is the most popular EU destination for British migrants.

But now, there is uncertainty – and worry.

• Chuck Daulson
• English
• 51
• Bar owner

“We don’t know how we’re going to be now, we might have no pension, we might have no medical, we may have to sell our properties, we’ve lived here for a lot of years, we don’t know how it’s going to affect us anymore.”

• Sarah
• Londoner
• 28
• Living in Benidorm
• Waitress

“If we leave the EU, then it’s bad on us expats who live here, obviously we’ll lose our medical care, we’ll lose our right to work without a work permit. Me and my boyfriend, we’ve lived here for 3 years, we won’t get a chance to get a mortgage or anything like that now.”

• Thomas McCarney
• British
• Javea resident for 23 years

“We are all in limbo, we have just to wait and see what they decide is going to happen. But it is a worry, of course it is. Twenty-three-years here is a long time to be here”.

And the worry runs both ways.

Spanish business owners who rely heavily on the tourist sector are concerned what the Brexit will mean for their profits.

[Rooo]

ME ME ME.

[manfredtillmann]

ME ME ME.

and that is different from the mindset of those who voted to 'leave'?

[NumbNut]

ME ME ME.

Bit harsh there Rooo... what about British expats in Thailand, or are they a different case compared to expats who've chosen to retire to an EU country?

This Brexit caper wasn't even on the horizon when they made their collective decisions to leave the UK... don't you think someone has earned the right after paying taxes their whole working lives to spend their twilight years in the sun, away from the UK if they should choose to?

[slipperylobster]

Brexit means that the British lose rights to claim Americans are dumber...?

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/british-lose-right-to-claim-that-americans-are-dumber?intcid=obnetwork

[MJP]

If the EU want to make this a separation based on what's good for all people (which they won't), part of the separation agreement should be an easy visa system between the UK and the EU. All citizens of EU countries living in the UK (without serious criminal record) automatically get leave to remain visas and vice versa.

Listening to Radio 4 yesterday here in the UK, there's panic amongst Europeans living in Blighty. They're scared and a paranoia has set in that they're not wanted here, that they're hated. From my point of view this simply isn't the case. Yes, the UK needs immigration control, it's got twice the population density of Germany, it doesn't have sufficient housing and public services to cope with a continued mass influx. But, for those people from other EU countries already established here, life should not be made difficult (it's difficult enough thanks).

The referendum campaign and certainly the communication of any sort of immediate plan in case of Brexit was an utter disgrace on both sides, leading to the sort of extreme uncertainty we're now witnessing.

[dick dasterdly]

This Brit. 'expat' living in Thailand is not worried now that sterling/baht has stabilised around 47.5. - although I will have to reduce my luxuries if the rate doesn't improve.

Bearing in mind that those that retired within the EU are now considering the possibliity of being in the same situation as those of us who moved to Thailand have always had to deal with - my sympathy level is v low.

[NumbNut]

Brexit means that the British lose rights to claim Americans are dumber...?

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/british-lose-right-to-claim-that-americans-are-dumber?intcid=obnetwork

Lol good one Slippery!

[mcfish]

A drop in the pound combined with whats shaping up to be a smashing of global markets will make it difficult for many here now. Im guessing many will return to the safety net of Britain and hopefully will cull some of the Thai bashing expats who are usually struggling to survive anyway..

[jope]

If the EU want to make this a separation based on what's good for all people (which they won't), part of the separation agreement should be an easy visa system between the UK and the EU. All citizens of EU countries living in the UK (without serious criminal record) automatically get leave to remain visas and vice versa.

Listening to Radio 4 yesterday here in the UK, there's panic amongst Europeans living in Blighty. They're scared and a paranoia has set in that they're not wanted here, that they're hated. From my point of view this simply isn't the case. Yes, the UK needs immigration control, it's got twice the population density of Germany, it doesn't have sufficient housing and public services to cope with a continued mass influx. But, for those people from other EU countries already established here, life should not be made difficult (it's difficult enough thanks).

The referendum campaign and certainly the communication of any sort of immediate plan in case of Brexit was an utter disgrace on both sides, leading to the sort of extreme uncertainty we're now witnessing.

For tourists and short time visitors there will be no problem. UK and EU will probably agree to re-establish the former system where an id-card was enough to enter and and have the right to stay for a few weeks.

With permanent stays and work permits it will be a completely different issue. As a condition to have access to the single market the EU will most likely insist on free movement of laborers and the UK will fight exactly that.

Permanent visas will probably be possible but will be granted only when certain requirements are met (is your income sufficient, ever been arrested etc?).

It will be interesting...

BTW, I never understood why so many people in the UK are so vehemently against East-European immigration. First, the UK could have protected their labour-market for another seven years (like Germany did) but chose to let everybody in immediately. Secondly, the number of people who abuse the social system is not life threatening high. Individual cases may be highly irritating but they will not let the system collapse. Most of the people who came are probably employed and pay taxes. In Germany particularly the Polish have the reputation of being reliable, highly skilled and hard working. In general, we actually like them.

[koolkarl]

Sterling fell off a cliff and headed much lower as per technical charts.

[Rancid]

And if as time goes by, the UK actually does better economically without the EU what happens to the pound then?

[soalbundy]

ME ME ME.

where as it would be YOU YOU YOU in your case i suppose.

[soalbundy]

And if as time goes by, the UK actually does better economically without the EU what happens to the pound then?

It wont

[DUS]

And if as time goes by, the UK actually does better economically without the EU what happens to the pound then?

We´ll just have to wait another decade or so to find out..... Stay tuned ...

[dick dasterdly]

And if as time goes by, the UK actually does better economically without the EU what happens to the pound then?

We´ll just have to wait another decade or so to find out..... Stay tuned ...

No we don't. Many of us are watching how things are working out now - and at the moment sterling has fallen around 3 bht.

In a 'decade or so' , anything can happen!

Edited June 25, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[DUS]

And if as time goes by, the UK actually does better economically without the EU what happens to the pound then?

We´ll just have to wait another decade or so to find out..... Stay tuned ...

No we don't. Many of us are watching how things are working out now - and at the moment sterling has fallen around 3 bht.

In a 'decade or so' , anything can happen!

And that was exactly my point. Glad you noticed.... ;-))

[mopar71]

Bearing in mind that those that retired within the EU are now considering the possibliity of being in the same situation as those of us who moved to Thailand have always had to deal with - my sympathy level is v low.

I live in the EU and have a lot of British friends who have long established themselves locally. A lot will change for them and while I sympathize, at the end of the day they will probably just be treated like I am as an American. Sympathy has its limits because there is still something odd about saying, "Oh, I feel so sorry for you. Now you will be treated the same as I am".

[MissAndry]

With permanent stays and work permits it will be a completely different issue.

Can'r see how, as there has been not vote to leave the EEA.

[Gandtee]

ME ME ME.

Bit harsh there Rooo... what about British expats in Thailand, or are they a different case compared to expats who've chosen to retire to an EU country?

This Brexit caper wasn't even on the horizon when they made their collective decisions to leave the UK... don't you think someone has earned the right after paying taxes their whole working lives to spend their twilight years in the sun, away from the UK if they should choose to?

When even suffering the ignominy of only receiving a frozen pension. Quite a few Brits will be suffering from the devalued pound. And that includes Me! Me! Me!

[gandalf12]

Brexit means that the British lose rights to claim Americans are dumber...?

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/british-lose-right-to-claim-that-americans-are-dumber?intcid=obnetwork

Any one who considers even remotely Hilary Clinton for president has a long way to go on scale of dumbness to even see the UK. Last time she was President (ok Bill was in theory the president but she ran everything) it was a mess and from what we see in the papers it hasnt improved very much. The USA is entitled to criticise the UK when it has Mexico dictating policy and laws. Until then shut it

Edited June 25, 2016 by gandalf12

[chiang mai]

My personal opinion is that the recent fall in the value of Sterling is only one of several such falls that we're likely to see over the next 12/24 months as fiscal events manifest themselves and get embedded in the exchange rates. Loss of AAA rating could be the first and that is almost certainly going to be followed by outflows, difficult to see what the entire pattern may look like but we certainly aren't done, we've only just started.

[MissAndry]

BTW, I never understood why so many people in the UK are so vehemently against East-European immigration. First, the UK could have protected their labour-market for another seven years (like Germany did) but chose to let everybody in immediately. Secondly, the number of people who abuse the social system is not life threatening high. Individual cases may be highly irritating but they will not let the system collapse. Most of the people who came are probably employed and pay taxes. In Germany particularly the Polish have the reputation of being reliable, highly skilled and hard working. In general, we actually like them.

I don't want to live in a country where all the conversations around me are in a foreign language.

No wait ...... DOH!

Edited June 25, 2016 by MissAndry

[MissAndry]

My personal opinion is that the recent fall in the value of Sterling is only one of several such falls that we're likely to see over the next 12/24 months as fiscal events manifest themselves and get embedded in the exchange rates. Loss of AAA rating could be the first and that is almost certainly going to be followed by outflows, difficult to see what the entire pattern may look like but we certainly aren't done, we've only just started.

My personal opinion, is that your personal opinion is wrong.

(Didn't you predict a stay in vote? Like you have a track record of being right?)

Anyway my home is still in the UK, with all the foreigners gone, I'll have room enough to live there.

Edited June 25, 2016 by MissAndry

[Ulic]

Short term pain but long term gain. For me nothing to do with immigration and everything

to do with the EU being anti democratic. A fat cat bureaucracy in Brussels feeding

at the public trough, piling up the red tape. No accountability, not a care or worry in the world.

Of course, the bureaucrats are now furious that someone (the lowly plebeian voters) would

dare to say enough. They will be out for revenge. The question is will they cut off their nose

to spite their face.

[DUS]

With permanent stays and work permits it will be a completely different issue.

Can'r see how, as there has been not vote to leave the EEA.

To the best of my knowledge, the UK actually did vote on it and has to reapply....... But as I wasn´t 100% sure, i quickly googled it and amongst many many pages commenting on this point were the BBC with

What happens to UK citizens working in the EU?

A lot depends on the kind of deal the UK agrees with the EU after exit.

If it remains within the single market, it would almost certainly retain free movement rights, allowing UK citizens to work in the EU and vice versa.

If the government opted to impose work permit restrictions, as UKIP wants, then other countries could reciprocate, meaning Britons would have to apply for visas to work.

and the Center for European Reform say:

After a vote to leave, the UK must invoke Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union, which could lead to several alternatives to membership. One simple option would be for Britain to join the European Economic Area (EEA) – the ‘Norwegian’ option. Britain would then be outside the common agricultural and fisheries policies. But its economic relationship with the EU would not change significantly: it would pay nearly as much into the budget as it does today, free movement of labour would continue, and the UK would have to apply the single market’s rules and regulations without having a vote on them.

[MissAndry]

Britain joined the EEA before the EU. It's already a member.

[Prbkk]

In theory it should be possible to buy British products at a lower price, once existing stock and buy contracts finish. Just don't expect to see any red Leicester stilton, jam, ...anything...in any supermarket at a reduced price because the sleazebag importers/retailers/monopolists won't reduce: they increase at the first weakening of the baht but profiteer when it goes the other way.

I don't buy all this gloom and doom stuff: a decent deal will be done with the EU and, while a silly decision to leave, it's not the end of the world.

Edited June 25, 2016 by Prbkk

[DUS]

I am pleased to hear that you are right and numerous organisations wrong. Phew, good to have you on board! Ta!

[jope]

With permanent stays and work permits it will be a completely different issue.

Can'r see how, as there has been not vote to leave the EEA.

One of the cornerstones of the EEA is the free movement of persons. My understanding is that among other things the Brexit is about limiting this free movement of persons.