US Embassy Income Affidavit

[Wanderer555]

Good day,

I will soon be applying for a non-O Visa for the purposes of retirement using the monthly income method.

When filling out the US Embassy Income Affidavit form, it asks me to affirm that "I receive USD $ _XXXX___ every month from the United States Government and/or other sources".

I do understand the 65,000 minimum requirement from Thai immigration, and have verifiable monthly income that exceeds this requirement.

My question is, that for the purposes of this form and to meet the requirement, do I need to state the entire amount or just state an amount that will satisfy the requirement?

Thank you in advance

theWanderer

[ubonjoe]

You could put a lower amount that what is needed. But be sure you put an amount above the 65k baht requirement that would cover any exchange rate fluctuations.

I honestly cannot cannot think of a good reason to put a lower amount though.

[beachproperty]

For purposes of anything .....the form does not verify that you make anything ....It just verifies that you have Sworn that you make that amount. So you can put anything you want in there (just make sure that you are not lying)

[glegolo]

Good day,

I will soon be applying for a non-O Visa for the purposes of retirement using the monthly income method.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So where are you going to buy this VISA??? certainly not inside Thailand anyhow??? So here is one more time showing the importance to use the correct terms....Otherwise it wil just be a blurr of it all in the end...

Me for once, think that you are talking about applying for an EXTENSION OF STAY based on retirement.... Or what??

Glegolo

[NickJ]

Also know the the US Embassy has there Outreach programs that travel to various cities so you can skip having to go to Bkk just to get the affadavit.

[Wanderer555]

You could put a lower amount that what is needed. But be sure you put an amount above the 65k baht requirement that would cover any exchange rate fluctuations.

I honestly cannot cannot think of a good reason to put a lower amount though.

Thanks UbonJoe!

As a followup, I think I will put 2500.00 as this will give sufficient room for normal currency fluctuations.

Additionally, the local Amphoe is also requiring to see a translated copy of the form for our marriage registration. My wife, who is a government worker and familiar with the office, has recommended I do not show the full amount as the amount I receive monthly far exceeds the 65,000 Baht requirement. As a private type and one who prefers a simple quiet lifestyle, I do agree with her, thus my question.

Thank again for the good advice.

Edited June 25, 2016 by Wanderer555

[Wanderer555]

Also know the the US Embassy has there Outreach programs that travel to various cities so you can skip having to go to Bkk just to get the affadavit.

Thanks NickJ,

The next Consular visit to a city close to me is August 19, and I need to take care of this before then, but maybe next time...

cheers!

[Wanderer555]

Good day,

I will soon be applying for a non-O Visa for the purposes of retirement using the monthly income method.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So where are you going to buy this VISA??? certainly not inside Thailand anyhow??? So here is one more time showing the importance to use the correct terms....Otherwise it wil just be a blurr of it all in the end...

Me for once, think that you are talking about applying for an EXTENSION OF STAY based on retirement.... Or what??

Glegolo

Thanks Gleglo for the 'comments' and yes I will play...

I will first be applying for a 'Non-O Visa for the purposes of Retirement' at the Thai Embassy in Vientiane, Laos. After 60 days, I will then apply for the above referenced 'Extension of Stay' based on retirement at the Sakhon Nakon Immigration office.

Both offices will require proof of income, and per the advice of TV's most knowledgeable member on matters of this nature, I plan to obtain the Income Affidavit this week from the US Embassy, and then provide a copy of said affidavit to the Vientiane Thai Embassy staff, with the original available for inspection if required. When applying for the 'Extension of Stay' I will present the original as required by the Thai Immigration Department.

I hope this clarifies your obvious difficulty and confusion in understanding my original post, and your unfounded misconception that I somehow intended to 'buy' the visa.

Best Regards,

theWanderer

ps: thanks for playing!

Edited June 25, 2016 by Wanderer555

[NancyL]

My husband uses the Income Letter method and always puts down a lower amount than our actual income, putting down just his regular monthly pensions -- the Social Security pension and the monthly private pension from a former employer. These are fixed amounts that never change, he can show where they come into the bank account each and every month on the same day and he receives a 1099 for them.

In truth, our annual income is much higher, but it's from irregular income streams, like investments and transfers from overseas accounts just once or twice annually. It would be much harder to demonstrate or justify those sources of income if asked and probably just confuse an Immigration officer if he tried to explain them. No need since the two regular monthly pensions are comfortably more than the required 65,000 baht, without being so high as to invite jealousy as was pointed out as a potential problem in Post #6 if others see the Income Letter.

[bubba1]

Can dividends and interest income be used to satisfy this requirement or does it have to be an actual 'pension' ?

[ubonjoe]

Can dividends and interest income be used to satisfy this requirement or does it have to be an actual 'pension' ?

You can use any income to meet the financial requirement of 65k baht.

[JLCrab]

Several times, before signing the affidavit, a US Consular official has asked me whether I am aware that Thai Immigration has the right to ask for corroborating documents to my sworn statement.

[thaihome]

The only proof you have to show immigration, if asked, for income is showing overseas transfers into a Thai bank account. They are uninterested in the source of those transfers.

TH

[glegolo]

Good day,

I will soon be applying for a non-O Visa for the purposes of retirement using the monthly income method.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So where are you going to buy this VISA??? certainly not inside Thailand anyhow??? So here is one more time showing the importance to use the correct terms....Otherwise it wil just be a blurr of it all in the end...

Me for once, think that you are talking about applying for an EXTENSION OF STAY based on retirement.... Or what??

Glegolo

Thanks Gleglo for the 'comments' and yes I will play...

I will first be applying for a 'Non-O Visa for the purposes of Retirement' at the Thai Embassy in Vientiane, Laos. After 60 days, I will then apply for the above referenced 'Extension of Stay' based on retirement at the Sakhon Nakon Immigration office.

Both offices will require proof of income, and per the advice of TV's most knowledgeable member on matters of this nature, I plan to obtain the Income Affidavit this week from the US Embassy, and then provide a copy of said affidavit to the Vientiane Thai Embassy staff, with the original available for inspection if required. When applying for the 'Extension of Stay' I will present the original as required by the Thai Immigration Department.

I hope this clarifies your obvious difficulty and confusion in understanding my original post, and your unfounded misconception that I somehow intended to 'buy' the visa.

Best Regards,

theWanderer

ps: thanks for playing!

Thank you for clarifying. Yes I did indeed underestimate you. you were one of the very few that actually didn´t use the word Retirement-VISA when it is a extension of stay. So well done.... besides that No I was not hinted that you were going to "buy" your VIUSA, just asked you WHERE you were going to buy your VISA.

Again thank you, and sorry if I was bad to you....

Glegolo

[tutsiwarrior]

when I retire, I shall receive less than thb65000 per month in income and I intend to use the combined income/bank balance method to demonstrate that I have thb800000 in the following manner:

obtain an affidavit to indicate that I receive USD1500 per month => 1500 x 12 = USD18000 x 35thb/USD = thb630000 per year

balance required = 800000 - 630000 = thb170000 / 35thb per USD = USD4857 which I intend to deposit in my thb account for 3 months, then display the bank book, etc...

would this be acceptable to thai immigration for an extension based on retirement or am I missin' something?

[gk10002000]

Can dividends and interest income be used to satisfy this requirement or does it have to be an actual 'pension' ?

I am using dividend and interest, since I don't get any sort of pension. In a few years Social Security will be countable also, and since that will be above the minimum requirements, I will address only that. This is just in case at some point somebody wants some documentation verifying my income. I would of course prefer not to give out any bank or equity holding details, income statements etc. Just my Social Security gross income is fine to be released.

[ubonjoe]

when I retire, I shall receive less than thb65000 per month in income and I intend to use the combined income/bank balance method to demonstrate that I have thb800000 in the following manner:

obtain an affidavit to indicate that I receive USD1500 per month => 1500 x 12 = USD18000 x 35thb/USD = thb630000 per year

balance required = 800000 - 630000 = thb170000 / 35thb per USD = USD4857 which I intend to deposit in my thb account for 3 months, then display the bank book, etc...

would this be acceptable to thai immigration for an extension based on retirement or am I missin' something?

That would be acceptable but I suggest you don't try to get to the exact 800k baht number. You should put more in the bank in case of exchange rate changes.

There is no written requirement to have the money in the bank for 60 days (first extension) or 3 months when using the combination option but some offices do ask for it.

[SteveSamui6262]

I am seeking to break a one year cycle of 60-day tourist visas/runs by instead obtaining an O-A Retirement VIsa at the immigration office in Bangkok.  However, my monthly pension is only about 31,000 baht.  My financials are not a problem because I share expenses with my girl and we also have a strong safety net through family.

 

If I was to embellish my monthly income on a U.S. Embassy affidavit for the purpose of obtaining the retirement visa,  I am concerned the U.S. Embassy routinely sends copies of these affidavits to the IRS.  I say this because the Department of Homeland Security once reported to the IRS that I carried $25K cash to Thailand (which I did declare at the airport, as required before my outbound flight).  A few years later when speaking with an IRS agent on the phone about another tax issue, the agent mentioned their record of my taking those funds abroad!  I explained the funds were free & clear and conversation regarding the topic quickly ended.  However, there you have it.  It does appear that U.S. Government agencies report financial data to the IRS.

 

Therefore, my main concern is not having a Thai Immigration Officer ask for further documented proof of income, but that I might put myself into a higher tax bracket, thus requiring me to to file a tax return next year.  So, if I failed to file a required tax return but no report was made to the IRS, no harm.  However, if the income on the affidavit was relayed to the IRS and I didn't file a tax return, I would only be able to explain to the IRS in the future that I simply embellished my income on the affidavit for the sole purpose of obtaining a long term retirement visa overseas.  I do realize if that point were to ever arise, an IRS agent could let me off the hook, or I could probably just pay any taxes owed based on my official income statement, plus a failure to file penalty and/or at the very worst, be prosecuted for perjury.  

 

So here I am, only trying to make my current life simple and safe, but very concerned if embellishing income under oath might cause me a serious problem upon my future return to the U.S., as I do intend to return.

 

I greatly appreciate your insightful comments and suggestions and also any information regarding your knowledge/experience regarding this issue.

Thank you fellow travelers!

[Evilbaz]

Swearing a false Affidavit can bring up to 10 years in jail - not something to confess to a Federal official from the IRS!!

Get real guys!

[ThaiRich]

On June 25, 2016 at 1:33 PM, glegolo said:

Good day,

 

 

 

 

I will soon be applying for a non-O Visa for the purposes of retirement using the monthly income method.

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

So where are you going to buy this VISA??? certainly not inside Thailand anyhow??? So here is one more time showing the importance to use the correct terms....Otherwise it wil just be a blurr of it all in the end...

 

 

 

 

 

Me for once, think that you are talking about applying for an EXTENSION OF STAY based on retirement.... Or what??

 

 

 

 

 

Glegolo

 

Technically depending on the type of visa he has now, example exempt entry or tourist visa, he can go to CW and convert to a non o visa for a fee of 2000 baht ( in essence buying a visa) and after the initial 90 day period could apply for an extension of stay based on retirement.  Of course, to apply for the visa at CW he would have to prove that he would be able to meet  the requirements for an extension of stay.

Edited August 3, 2016 by ThaiRich

[ubonjoe]

11 hours ago, SteveSamui6262 said:

I am seeking to break a one year cycle of 60-day tourist visas/runs by instead obtaining an O-A Retirement VIsa at the immigration office in Bangkok.  However, my monthly pension is only about 31,000 baht.  My financials are not a problem because I share expenses with my girl and we also have a strong safety net through family.

 

If I was to embellish my monthly income on a U.S. Embassy affidavit for the purpose of obtaining the retirement visa,  I am concerned the U.S. Embassy routinely sends copies of these affidavits to the IRS.  I say this because the Department of Homeland Security once reported to the IRS that I carried $25K cash to Thailand (which I did declare at the airport, as required before my outbound flight).  A few years later when speaking with an IRS agent on the phone about another tax issue, the agent mentioned their record of my taking those funds abroad!  I explained the funds were free & clear and conversation regarding the topic quickly ended.  However, there you have it.  It does appear that U.S. Government agencies report financial data to the IRS.

 

Therefore, my main concern is not having a Thai Immigration Officer ask for further documented proof of income, but that I might put myself into a higher tax bracket, thus requiring me to to file a tax return next year.  So, if I failed to file a required tax return but no report was made to the IRS, no harm.  However, if the income on the affidavit was relayed to the IRS and I didn't file a tax return, I would only be able to explain to the IRS in the future that I simply embellished my income on the affidavit for the sole purpose of obtaining a long term retirement visa overseas.  I do realize if that point were to ever arise, an IRS agent could let me off the hook, or I could probably just pay any taxes owed based on my official income statement, plus a failure to file penalty and/or at the very worst, be prosecuted for perjury.  

 

So here I am, only trying to make my current life simple and safe, but very concerned if embellishing income under oath might cause me a serious problem upon my future return to the U.S., as I do intend to return.

 

I greatly appreciate your insightful comments and suggestions and also any information regarding your knowledge/experience regarding this issue.

Thank you fellow travelers!

You cannot apply for a OA visa at immigration. Those are only issued by an embassy or official consulate in your home country.

You can apply for a 90 day non immigrant visa entry based upon qualifying for an extension of stay based upon retirement at immigration. Then during the last 30 days of the 90 entry apply for an extension of stay.

The embassy does not report anything to the IRS. As far as I know they do not even make copy of the income affidavit. 

[SteveSamui6262]

Thanks Ubonjoe

I am sure I read on the Bangkok Thai Immigration website that their office can, at their discretion issue a retirement visa.  However, you seem to know what you are talking about.  

I currently have what was a brand new U.S. passport last year, which is now filled with 60 day tourist visas and stamps.  Only 6 blank pages are left.  I need to request a 30 day extension on my last tv next week.  

 

If I understand you correctly, I would first go to the U.S. Embassy and get the affadivit showing sufficient monthly income.  

 

Then would I need to go to Thai Immigration in Bangkok or to a Thai Consulate in Laos or Cambodia to request a 90 day non immigrant visa?  

 

Then 30 days before the the non immigrant visa expires, I would apply for an extension of stay.  How long would the extension of say be valid?  I assume this has nothing to do with a retirement visa.

 

Thank you very much for your imput.

 

[ubonjoe]

3 hours ago, SteveSamui6262 said:

Thanks Ubonjoe

I am sure I read on the Bangkok Thai Immigration website that their office can, at their discretion issue a retirement visa.  However, you seem to know what you are talking about.  

I currently have what was a brand new U.S. passport last year, which is now filled with 60 day tourist visas and stamps.  Only 6 blank pages are left.  I need to request a 30 day extension on my last tv next week.  

 

If I understand you correctly, I would first go to the U.S. Embassy and get the affadivit showing sufficient monthly income.  

 

Then would I need to go to Thai Immigration in Bangkok or to a Thai Consulate in Laos or Cambodia to request a 90 day non immigrant visa?  

 

Then 30 days before the the non immigrant visa expires, I would apply for an extension of stay.  How long would the extension of say be valid?  I assume this has nothing to do with a retirement visa.

 

Thank you very much for your imput.

 

Immigration can only issue a non immigrant visa that is valid for one day and is immediately used when a 90 day entry is stamped in the passport.

You will get a one year extension of stay.

[JimGant]

Quote

Can dividends and interest income be used to satisfy this requirement or does it have to be an actual 'pension' ?

 

Nothing is asked about pensions, nothing about "income" (earned or otherwise). What it says:

Quote

 "I receive USD $ _XXXX___ every month

 

The operative word is receive, as in cash flow. Thus, milking down a savings account, or an IRA -- or receiving a monthly loan from Aunt Martha -- constitutes "receive," at least in my understanding of semantics. Now, if they tightened up what you're swearing to, by saying something like 'receive a pension' or 'receive earnings,' then, yeah, milking down your savings account might be questionable (unless you convert it into an immediate pay annuity, which would then be considered a pension). In any event, showing cash flow from Aunt Martha, and elsewhere, into your bank account -- should be sufficient evidence that you receive xxxx USD every month. Not that anyone has ever asked.

[hml367]

The form I downloaded from the US Consulate web site says, "income".

 

 

[JimGant]

Quote

The form I downloaded from the US Consulate web site says, "income".

 

What you're swearing to clearly says,   "I also affirm that I receive USD $ (click here to enter income)  every month from the United
States Government and/or other sources." And, yes, their instructions say, "The Thai government requires all U.S. citizens with Thai retirement visas to verify their income...."  It would sound a little weird if the Consulate said "verify their cash flow." But "income" and "cash flow" are terms often used interchangeably, although striclty speaking can mean different things, especially with modifying qualifiers such as "earned, unearned, positive, and negative."

Did the US intentionally say "receive USD" instead of "receive a pension/income" as the Brits do? Probably, as this does allow one to include drawing down his savings account when swearing he's receiving XXX USD per month. Nothing inherently wrong here -- if this is a positive cash flow, available for use in Thailand (which, of course, is what the Thais really care about).

And that's where income affidavits are actually worthless, whether or not they're verifying "income" or "cash flow" -- when both are really negative, going to pay child support and your 4 former wives in farang land. Nope, if the Thais really wanted to assure ones' ability to support himself here -- they would require evidence of cash flows into a Thai bank account -- and I guess some Immigration offices *do* periodically do such an ad hoc checky check.

 

[Evilbaz]

Phuket Immi checked my pension source, and bank statements showing leaving Oz and arriving in Kbank to back up the Oz Embassy Income affidavit.

Edited August 5, 2016 by Evilbaz

[JimGant]

Smart of Phuket to verify that the 65k monthly baht equivalent you swore that you received (or earned) actually made it to Thailand. Surprised we don't see more of this, particularly with US and Oz types, whose embassies don't require proof of monthly funds received.

[Wanderer555]

Hello Jim,

 

It might be that the difference in terminology 'UK pension/income' vs 'US receive USD' may be the result of the differences used in describing various forms of monetary gain. 

 

While I am not sure of how various forms of monetary gain are described in the UK, the US tax code describes 'Income' as the money one receives in exchange for goods and services, including pensions as the pension is derived from previous work for pay. On the other hand, 'Capital Gain' is the money received from the sale or exchange of a capital asset such as property or stocks. Both are forms of money being received that could be used to fund a retirement.

 

It also seems to me that the US description is more inclusive as it does not limit one to claiming money just earned from a periodic exchange of services ( ie: working for salary), but can include money from many sources. The US method would seem to include many sources of funds such as pensions, capital gains, trust funds, savings draw down or similar, as long as that 'money or its monthly average' is 'at or above' what is attested to on the form

 

As the OP of this thread, I was also a bit confused with the terminology as my income comes from a mix of sources including both a pension and short-term capital gains. While my question was for different reasons, in the end I do believe one should only answer these questions in a manner that is both ethical and verifiable.

 

Cheers!

 

 

Edited August 5, 2016 by Wanderer555

[Evilbaz]

4 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Smart of Phuket to verify that the 65k monthly baht equivalent you swore that you received (or earned) actually made it to Thailand. Surprised we don't see more of this, particularly with US and Oz types, whose embassies don't require proof of monthly funds received.

 

These things have a habit of spreading nationally - look at the Foreigner Info form.

I would never swear a false affidavit.