US Embassy Income Affidavit

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Re the poster above who referred to the IRS perhaps getting involved in such things...

 

Don't forget, for U.S. citizens, there is taxable and NON-taxable income, both of which would be countable toward meeting Thai Immigration's income requirements.

 

The IRS receives info on your taxable income. But generally speaking, they don't receive any info on one's NON-taxable income such as that from Roth IRAs and tax-free bonds.

 

So there's perfectly normal circumstances where the income one states to the U.S. Consulate (taxable and non-taxable) would be different than the taxable income amounts reported to the IRS.

 

[hml367]

On ‎8‎/‎5‎/‎2016 at 11:51 AM, JimGant said:

 

What you're swearing to clearly says,   "I also affirm that I receive USD $ (click here to enter income)  every month from the United
States Government and/or other sources." And, yes, their instructions say, "The Thai government requires all U.S. citizens with Thai retirement visas to verify their income...."  It would sound a little weird if the Consulate said "verify their cash flow." But "income" and "cash flow" are terms often used interchangeably, although striclty speaking can mean different things, especially with modifying qualifiers such as "earned, unearned, positive, and negative."

Did the US intentionally say "receive USD" instead of "receive a pension/income" as the Brits do? Probably, as this does allow one to include drawing down his savings account when swearing he's receiving XXX USD per month. Nothing inherently wrong here -- if this is a positive cash flow, available for use in Thailand (which, of course, is what the Thais really care about).

And that's where income affidavits are actually worthless, whether or not they're verifying "income" or "cash flow" -- when both are really negative, going to pay child support and your 4 former wives in farang land. Nope, if the Thais really wanted to assure ones' ability to support himself here -- they would require evidence of cash flows into a Thai bank account -- and I guess some Immigration offices *do* periodically do such an ad hoc checky check.

 

 

 

This is the Chiang Mai form (the also show a form for Bangkok) I downloaded about 3:45 pm., 6 August.  Not to beat things too much, but it is shown in 2 places on this form as income.

 

If someone were drawing from a savings account they should be able to show the required balance... my opinion. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I was looking at the two different forms just yesterday, one on the BKK consulate site and the other on the CM consulate site.

 

Curiously, there is notably difference language on the two different forms when they're referring to the monthly amount.

[JimGant]

Interesting catch. The Chiang Mai Consulate form clearly says, "...I have an income of US $ every month." Period. While the US Embassy download says: "I also affirm that I receive US $ every month from the US Government and/or other sources."

https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/notaries-public/income-affidavit/

 

Clearly a difference in terminology -- and one where I'd be somewhat leary of swearing to the Chiang Mai Consulate that my monthly savings drawdown was "income." Hmmm.

[hml367]

JimGant,

 

Both downloads are on the same web page.  The Chiang Mai Consulate links to the same place.  Immigration in Chiang Mai may not accept the affidavit noted as, "Bangkok".

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Yes, but I think the point is, the two different U.S. consulates are using different language on the form, one specifically referencing "income" and the other not.

 

It's probably mostly an issue of semantics, since Thai Immigration seems to accept income (using that term in its broadest, more generic sense)  that comes from a wide variety of sources.

 

Still, it's kind of odd that the two different U.S. consulates in the same country would have different language forms for the same purpose.

 

[JimGant]

Quote

Immigration in Chiang Mai may not accept the affidavit noted as, "Bangkok".

 

Now, I'd love to be part of that discussion (i.e., why is Bangkok's affidavit unacceptable?).  Did Chiang Mai really tear apart the income affidavit language provided for decades by the Embassy Consulate in Bangkok -- and then provide their own semantics? Did they really feel that living on the inheritance from Mom was not the kind of "income" Thai Immigration was looking for?

State Dept types, unfortunately, can't answer -- as it might pass thru Hillary's server.

[Scotwight]

On 6/26/2016 at 7:00 AM, NancyL said:

My husband uses the Income Letter method and always puts down a lower amount than our actual income, putting down just his regular monthly pensions -- the Social Security pension and the monthly private pension from a former employer. These are fixed amounts that never change, he can show where they come into the bank account each and every month on the same day and he receives a 1099 for them.

In truth, our annual income is much higher, but it's from irregular income streams, like investments and transfers from overseas accounts just once or twice annually. It would be much harder to demonstrate or justify those sources of income if asked and probably just confuse an Immigration officer if he tried to explain them. No need since the two regular monthly pensions are comfortably more than the required 65,000 baht, without being so high as to invite jealousy as was pointed out as a potential problem in Post #6 if others see the Income Letter.

With all that money it seems odd (to me) that you wouldn't just put the 800,000 in the bank and not mess with the income letter process.  I keep a couple of million baht in the bank here just to cover unexpected hospital expenses.  Why would anyone be concerned if Immigration knows how much money you have in the bank or in pensions?  What are they going to do about it?  If anything wealth gets respect in Thailand.  

[lopburi3]

Dup content to others

 

Edited August 7, 2016 by lopburi3
Covered information

[gk10002000]

On 8/4/2016 at 10:11 PM, JimGant said:

Smart of Phuket to verify that the 65k monthly baht equivalent you swore that you received (or earned) actually made it to Thailand. Surprised we don't see more of this, particularly with US and Oz types, whose embassies don't require proof of monthly funds received.

 

Well the problem with this is, many people would NOT be transferring the funds to Thailand every month. I certainly won't be.  My social security and my investment income of dividends and interest will continue to go right where it is now to my USA investment agencies.  I will be maintaining a USA presence and have no plans or desires to set up any sort of periodic transfers to Thailand.  I may make some withdrawals from my Roth or Traditional IRAs, or do other things.  I envision making some transfers just a few times a year.   Just because somebody has the income, that does not mean they will be spending it all in Thailand.  Many people make less frequent transfers, or make bulk transfers, or may even travel home once or twice a year and would bring back $ 10K USD each time in cash which does not require any forms or perhaps even more.

[gk10002000]

3 hours ago, Scotwight said:

With all that money it seems odd (to me) that you wouldn't just put the 800,000 in the bank and not mess with the income letter process.  I keep a couple of million baht in the bank here just to cover unexpected hospital expenses.  Why would anyone be concerned if Immigration knows how much money you have in the bank or in pensions?  What are they going to do about it?  If anything wealth gets respect in Thailand.  

I have plenty of money, but 800k baht is 22 K USD and I prefer to keep that invested in my current equities and bonds and funds in the USA.  Also, if you have 22 K $ USD in Thailand you would have to fill out some paperwork for the good old nosey USA agencies.  Some prefer the income verification method for this and other reasons.  Plus, if you do put the 800k in the Thai bank, you still must spend money from somewhere, aka income

[JimGant]

Quote

Well the problem with this is, many people would NOT be transferring the funds to Thailand every month.

 

Good point. Several posters here use their fee free ATM cards to support themselves in Thailand. I guess Immigration could then ask to see the ATM receipt trail  -- or other evidence of disposable cash flow. But, as that would prove to be unwieldy, I suspect that's why such is still ad hoc, and not policy.

[gk10002000]

49 minutes ago, JimGant said:

 

Good point. Several posters here use their fee free ATM cards to support themselves in Thailand. I guess Immigration could then ask to see the ATM receipt trail  -- or other evidence of disposable cash flow. But, as that would prove to be unwieldy, I suspect that's why such is still ad hoc, and not policy.

Yes, and I have read reports here of some officials asking to see some sort of money trail.  I would not be surprised if the stories of that happening increase.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Re the monthly income requirement of Immigration, they do require that you HAVE/RECEIVE the income or funds (and may ask for proof that you do in fact get those funds in some cases).

 

But the Immigration regulations themselves DO NOT require that those income/funds be brought into Thailand or that you have to prove they've been brought into Thailand -- just that you've received them. Nor do the BKK or CM U.S. Consulate income affidavits state that those funds are being brought into Thailand or being received by you in Thailand.

 

For the bank deposits requirement for retirement extensions, those funds DO have to be deposited in a Thai bank. But the monthly income requirement has no such obligation.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Re the monthly income requirement of Immigration, they do require that you HAVE/RECEIVE the income or funds (and may ask for proof that you do in fact get those funds in some cases).

 

But the Immigration regulations themselves DO NOT require that those income/funds be brought into Thailand or that you have to prove they've been brought into Thailand -- just that you've received them. Nor do the BKK or CM U.S. Consulate income affidavits state that those funds are being brought into Thailand or being received by you in Thailand.

 

For the bank deposits requirement for retirement extensions, those funds DO have to be deposited in a Thai bank. But the monthly income requirement has no such obligation.

 

[riclag]

 Usa  embassy appointment for a income affidavit .How soon can I go after I make a appointment?When I arrive from the states I would like to have a idea of how many nights I must book for a hotel in BKK.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

12 minutes ago, riclag said:

 Usa  embassy appointment for a income affidavit .How soon can I go after I make a appointment?When I arrive from the states I would like to have a idea of how many nights I must book for a hotel in BKK.

 

How soon can you go where after you book an appointment?

 

[riclag]

21 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

How soon can you go where after you book an appointment?

 

to the USembassy in Bangkok. Does the embassy say come the next day or do I have to wait 2 weeks.

Edited March 25, 2018 by riclag

[ubonjoe]

38 minutes ago, riclag said:

 Usa  embassy appointment for a income affidavit .How soon can I go after I make a appointment?When I arrive from the states I would like to have a idea of how many nights I must book for a hotel in BKK.

It depends on the date you are able to get the appointment for. You select the date and time.

After the clicking Bangkok at the bottom of the page here you will able to select the dates for the rest of this month and next. After the 1st of April you will be able to choose May as well.

https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/acsappointment/

[GinBoy2]

We repatriated to the US last year, and I sold all our condo's and moved all the cash back home, which incidentally makes me sleep easier at night.

So when we came back in Feb for a few months to escape the snow, I did a retirement visa extension using the income affidavit method since I no longer had enough cash in my SCB account.

It was the easiest thing, $50 at the embassy, an at Thai immigration in Chaiyaphum they needed nothing else.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, riclag said:

to the USembassy. Does the embassy say come the next day or do I have to wait 2 weeks.

 

To get the income affidavit from the U.S. Embassy in BKK, you have to use their website's online appointments system to book and schedule your appointment. They have a calendar online that will show you what days and times are available, and then you pick what day/time suits you.

 

You can schedule pretty far in advance, IIRC.  But for the shorter term, depending on the time of year, sometimes you can get an appointment the next day or two, or sometimes the earliest available date may be 7-10 days out. I'm talking about Bangkok. I'm not sure about the similar setup in CM.

 

Once you get the income affidavit in hand, you can use it at Immigration immediately, assuming you have your other Immigration documents/forms in order.

 

[GinBoy2]

One bit of advice for anyone turning up for a scheduled appointment in BKK.

DONT get there too early. They will only allow you inside 15 mins before your scheduled appointment, and they are Nazi like in enforcing that.

The result of getting there too early is you will be hanging outside on the sidewalk sweating profusely

[riclag]

24 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

One bit of advice for anyone turning up for a scheduled appointment in BKK.

DONT get there too early. They will only allow you inside 15 mins before your scheduled appointment, and they are Nazi like in enforcing that.

The result of getting there too early is you will be hanging outside on the sidewalk sweating profusely

Is there a place the Mrs. can go to wait for me?

[GinBoy2]

No, she can't go in with you. The options are wait a coffee shop. There is one directly across the road in the Sindhorn Building, or back up on the same side of the road towards Sukhumvit

[Thaidream]

Absolutely correct about not allowing anyone in early for the appointment- I arrived 1 hour ahead of time- and was denied entry until 15 minutes before my scheduled appointment- Waited outside and was very hot.   Tried to convince them to enter early- no way.. The security is very strict. Once inside- things move quickly.  Fill out the affidavit before going- it can be downloaded from their web site.

[phuketrichard]

you can also get the doc at an outreach if ur around the area. 

https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/consular-outreach/

MUST get a bank draft for 1,700 baht   NO cash accepted..

[riclag]

14 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Absolutely correct about not allowing anyone in early for the appointment- I arrived 1 hour ahead of time- and was denied entry until 15 minutes before my scheduled appointment- Waited outside and was very hot.   Tried to convince them to enter early- no way.. The security is very strict. Once inside- things move quickly.  Fill out the affidavit before going- it can be downloaded from their web site.

thanks

[riclag]

14 hours ago, phuketrichard said:

you can also get the doc at an outreach if ur around the area. 

https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/consular-outreach/

MUST get a bank draft for 1,700 baht   NO cash accepted..

thanks

[riclag]

On 3/25/2018 at 7:37 PM, GinBoy2 said:

No, she can't go in with you. The options are wait a coffee shop. There is one directly across the road in the Sindhorn Building, or back up on the same side of the road towards Sukhumvit

thanks

[riclag]

On 3/25/2018 at 6:16 PM, ubonjoe said:

It depends on the date you are able to get the appointment for. You select the date and time.

After the clicking Bangkok at the bottom of the page here you will able to select the dates for the rest of this month and next. After the 1st of April you will be able to choose May as well.

https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/acsappointment/

thanks