Were Brexit campaigners straight with voters over claims?

[Khun Han]

But he (and I) will in the general election that will follow. An option we never had with EU leaders until the referendum. The deceit from the pro-EU brigade just rolls off the tongue effortlessly.

Whether he, whoever that is wins the election you still get no say in the appointment of the PM nor in whom he appoints to the executive. The most you will get is to elect your local MP. You appear to have little or no grasp on the way the government is formed in the UK. Of course we don't appoint the executive of the EU just like we don't appoint our own executive. We elect MEPs and our government gets to have a say in who the executive is of the EU. At least the Americans can claim to have a little more say in who they get as President but they too have no say in who that president appoints to the executive positions. However its quite apparent that you haven't any interest in any of this but just bogus nonsense about the EU.

Don't be so ridiculous. I will know full well who will become Prime Minister if the party I vote for wins the next general election. And I will also know which politicians from the winning party will end up in the senior government positions. It's why I've always given my vote to the party that has the senior politicians who appeal to my sensibilities, rather than along dogmatic party political lines.

What is it about the pro -EU brigade and condescension? Infantile bunch.

By the way, the guy I quoted is Andrew Macgregor Marshall and I claim my £5 (though I'll probably get it in crappy Euros that'll be worth bugger-all the next opportunity I get to spend them) .

So could you tell me now who is going to be the next PM and who is going to occupy the executive positions, try just a few of the senior ones for a good laugh. You might know who is going to be PM in any election since he will be the party leader but you have no part in his election other that electing your local MP. Furthermore apart from a few senior positions you have no idea who will occupy the other position which only the appointed PM will know when he gets around to making those appointments, so on practically every count you demonstrate that you haven't got the faintest idea what you are talking about.

Just like your phony outrage at the appointments of EU officials and yet you have no such concern about the majority of appointments in your own backyard.

Since you know all the the politicians involved lets try shall we. Tell me who is going to occupy the positions of Chancellor, Foreign and Home. Those should be easy for you with your concerns about having no control over the executive.

Come back and ask me when the hustings start Andrew.

[pitrevie]

Don't be so ridiculous. I will know full well who will become Prime Minister if the party I vote for wins the next general election. And I will also know which politicians from the winning party will end up in the senior government positions. It's why I've always given my vote to the party that has the senior politicians who appeal to my sensibilities, rather than along dogmatic party political lines.

What is it about the pro -EU brigade and condescension? Infantile bunch.

By the way, the guy I quoted is Andrew Macgregor Marshall and I claim my £5 (though I'll probably get it in crappy Euros that'll be worth bugger-all the next opportunity I get to spend them) .

So could you tell me now who is going to be the next PM and who is going to occupy the executive positions, try just a few of the senior ones for a good laugh. You might know who is going to be PM in any election since he will be the party leader but you have no part in his election other that electing your local MP. Furthermore apart from a few senior positions you have no idea who will occupy the other position which only the appointed PM will know when he gets around to making those appointments, so on practically every count you demonstrate that you haven't got the faintest idea what you are talking about.

Just like your phony outrage at the appointments of EU officials and yet you have no such concern about the majority of appointments in your own backyard.

Since you know all the the politicians involved lets try shall we. Tell me who is going to occupy the positions of Chancellor, Foreign and Home. Those should be easy for you with your concerns about having no control over the executive.

Come back and ask me when the hustings start Andrew.

In other words you have no idea and have no input into who will occupy any of the top positions in HM government for the next possibly 4 years but you are so outraged at the unelected bureaucrats in Brussels. You cannot even tell me who the PM is going to be. Obvious why you supported Brexit.

[Khun Han]

Don't be so ridiculous. I will know full well who will become Prime Minister if the party I vote for wins the next general election. And I will also know which politicians from the winning party will end up in the senior government positions. It's why I've always given my vote to the party that has the senior politicians who appeal to my sensibilities, rather than along dogmatic party political lines.

What is it about the pro -EU brigade and condescension? Infantile bunch.

By the way, the guy I quoted is Andrew Macgregor Marshall and I claim my £5 (though I'll probably get it in crappy Euros that'll be worth bugger-all the next opportunity I get to spend them) .

So could you tell me now who is going to be the next PM and who is going to occupy the executive positions, try just a few of the senior ones for a good laugh. You might know who is going to be PM in any election since he will be the party leader but you have no part in his election other that electing your local MP. Furthermore apart from a few senior positions you have no idea who will occupy the other position which only the appointed PM will know when he gets around to making those appointments, so on practically every count you demonstrate that you haven't got the faintest idea what you are talking about.

Just like your phony outrage at the appointments of EU officials and yet you have no such concern about the majority of appointments in your own backyard.

Since you know all the the politicians involved lets try shall we. Tell me who is going to occupy the positions of Chancellor, Foreign and Home. Those should be easy for you with your concerns about having no control over the executive.

Come back and ask me when the hustings start Andrew.

In other words you have no idea and have no input into who will occupy any of the top positions in HM government for the next possibly 4 years but you are so outraged at the unelected bureaucrats in Brussels. You cannot even tell me who the PM is going to be. Obvious why you supported Brexit.

Calm down Andrew. You're ranting aimlessly. Nobody knows the make up of the next set of political teams yet, and it's a non-issue until a general election is called.

[Guest]

"BREAKING: Angela Merkel says it is not reasonable for UK to keep the privileges of EU membership without the obligations"

[pitrevie]

Calm down Andrew. You're ranting aimlessly. Nobody knows the make up of the next set of political teams yet, and it's a non-issue until a general election is called.

I don't know what on earth you are talking about and I suspect neither do you. The next general election is due in about 4 years but in the next few months we will get a new PM and a completely new cabinet and you haven't got a clue who any of them are going to be.

[dunroaming]

Both sides lied but about the same thing. The Brexit boys saying all these wonderful things would happen if people vote leave and the remain camp saying all these dreadful things would happen if people voted to leave. At the moment it appears that the Remain camp were far more truthful than the Brexit gang who successfully conned the British public in spectacular style.

Britain will get through these difficult times eventually but there will be consequences. Not just from leaving Europe but also because of the bitter divide there now is within the country.

The next step is to see who becomes PM, Johnson or May. Will it be the buffoon or the shoe woman?

[pitrevie]

Both sides lied but about the same thing. The Brexit boys saying all these wonderful things would happen if people vote leave and the remain camp saying all these dreadful things would happen if people voted to leave. At the moment it appears that the Remain camp were far more truthful than the Brexit gang who successfully conned the British public in spectacular style.

Britain will get through these difficult times eventually but there will be consequences. Not just from leaving Europe but also because of the bitter divide there now is within the country.

The next step is to see who becomes PM, Johnson or May. Will it be the buffoon or the shoe woman?

Yep and now we are being told that controlling our own borders doesn't mean reducing immigration it just means controlling our own borders. So all that guff about 330,000 people arriving every year the size of another small town and the long line of brown skinned men will not stop but they will be controlled. Nigel will not be pleased to hear that.

[Gweiloman]

Carlos Moedas

Margrethe Vestager

Corina Cretu

Tibor Navracsics

Vera Jourova

Elzbieta Bienkowska

Violeta Bulc

Phil Hogan

Christos Stylianides

Pieere Moscovici

Marianne Thyssen

Dimitris Avramopoulos

Vytenis Andriukaitis

Karmenu Vella

Miguel Arias Canete

Neven Mimica

Cecilia Malmstrom

Johannes Hahn

Guenther Oettinger

Jyrki Katainen

Valdis Dombrovskis

Maros Sefcovic

Andrus Ansip

Kristalina Georgieva

Federica Mogherini

Frans Timmermans

No offense meant but would you want this group of people running your country and deciding on all the policies?

[retarius]

Are politicians ever honest with voters? The lies, misrepresentations of data, fitted up data and hyperbole were used by both sides. Remain for scaremongering purposed since they didn't seem to be able to come up with any reasons to actually stay in the EU based on having being in it for 40 years. The Brexit side to attract voters to their cause. To accuse only the Brexit camp of lying is stupid and fatuous.

The country is obviously split pretty much 50:50. A better campaign from Remain would probably swung the result their way, but calling people who wanted to vote for leaving ignorant, uneducated racists seemed to the highlight of their strategy….insulting the voter is never a very smart thing to do, and it rebounded on them and bit them in the butt.

[chiang mai]

No offense but do you really want Boris running the UK as your PM?

[retarius]

Both sides lied but about the same thing. The Brexit boys saying all these wonderful things would happen if people vote leave and the remain camp saying all these dreadful things would happen if people voted to leave. At the moment it appears that the Remain camp were far more truthful than the Brexit gang who successfully conned the British public in spectacular style.

Britain will get through these difficult times eventually but there will be consequences. Not just from leaving Europe but also because of the bitter divide there now is within the country.

The next step is to see who becomes PM, Johnson or May. Will it be the buffoon or the shoe woman?

Yep and now we are being told that controlling our own borders doesn't mean reducing immigration it just means controlling our own borders. So all that guff about 330,000 people arriving every year the size of another small town and the long line of brown skinned men will not stop but they will be controlled. Nigel will not be pleased to hear that.

This like the 350million pound thing is taken somewhat out of context. If we wish to trade freely with the EU on the same basis as today, we have to acknowledge that we will be bound by the same rules as everybody else in the EU ie free movement of peoples. If immigration is a priority for us, we could sacrifice some trade and put tariffs on some things, like cars or financial services for example, but we would be able to control immigration. Nigel Farage's priorities are not the same as Boris' since Boris now says that we will aim for the same trade package as we now have…something that David Cameron said was not even on the table as "out means out". When/If Britain gets an new PM and a government, then it will set the priorities for negotiation. If it doesn't include curbs on EU migration then Boris' administration won't last long.

I listened to Michael Gove on the 350 million pound for the NHS thing. His lie I suppose is that although we pay 350 million per week to the EU this is the gross figure and rebates bring the net sum down. Gove's point was more general, saying that having less money going out frees up money that can be used elsewhere, for example the NHS. He never intended that the NHS budget would be increased by 350 million a week but the Remain supporting media jumped on it and splashed it all over the place. Dirty trick. In any event, my betting is that there will be no Brexit. I have made a really big bet going long on the markets and sterling, betting that the elite will not let this referendum result stand.

[Khun Han]

Calm down Andrew. You're ranting aimlessly. Nobody knows the make up of the next set of political teams yet, and it's a non-issue until a general election is called.

I don't know what on earth you are talking about and I suspect neither do you. The next general election is due in about 4 years but in the next few months we will get a new PM and a completely new cabinet and you haven't got a clue who any of them are going to be.

And in a few months after that we will have a general election.

Whilst the Tories have problems of their own, Labour have committed political hara kiri, and it will take them at least a couple of years to reorganise. The Tories are such nailed-on favourites to win a snap general election that it wouldn't surprise me to see some bookies closing their books on it. The Tories certainly aren't going to hold on to power with a top table unendorsed by the electorate, with the resulting possibility that they will lose the next election to a rejuvenated Labour party.

Are you capable of dropping the arrogance and condescension Andrew? It comes across as very immature.

[Khun Han]

Carlos Moedas

Margrethe Vestager

Corina Cretu

Tibor Navracsics

Vera Jourova

Elzbieta Bienkowska

Violeta Bulc

Phil Hogan

Christos Stylianides

Pieere Moscovici

Marianne Thyssen

Dimitris Avramopoulos

Vytenis Andriukaitis

Karmenu Vella

Miguel Arias Canete

Neven Mimica

Cecilia Malmstrom

Johannes Hahn

Guenther Oettinger

Jyrki Katainen

Valdis Dombrovskis

Maros Sefcovic

Andrus Ansip

Kristalina Georgieva

Federica Mogherini

Frans Timmermans

No offense meant but would you want this group of people running your country and deciding on all the policies?

It doesn't matter who the names are. As we have seen in recent days, they all report to Germany anyway.

[Gweiloman]

No offense but do you really want Boris running the UK as your PM?

Better than some foreigner that doesn't understand cricket and how paint dries. At least he was born in the UK and speaks proper.

[chiang mai]

No offense but do you really want Boris running the UK as your PM?

Better than some foreigner that doesn't understand cricket and how paint dries. At least he was born in the UK and speaks proper.

Boris was born in the US, he renounced his citizenship about two months ago because he wanted to become PM!

[dunroaming]

I will say it again. Both sides lied. As for the £350,000,000 issue the posters said. "We give £350,000,000 a week to the EU, why not put that money into the NHS". Pretty unambiguous I would have thought. But actually the big issue was immigration and that triggered most of the Brexit votes (apparently). Yesterday Johnson said that immigration was not an issue and that the economy comes first. Said it before and he accepts that a free trade agreement with the EU, which he said he would negotiate, means the free movement of people.

Just been listening to Nigel at the EU conference. He was magnificent and brought much laughter to the event. Aside from that he was pretty much on the money over many of his points. Let's not forget that Mr Farage has been campaigning for the UK to leave the EU for twenty seven years long before it went off of the rails. Can't fault his consistency

[ilostmypassword]

Carlos Moedas

Margrethe Vestager

Corina Cretu

Tibor Navracsics

Vera Jourova

Elzbieta Bienkowska

Violeta Bulc

Phil Hogan

Christos Stylianides

Pieere Moscovici

Marianne Thyssen

Dimitris Avramopoulos

Vytenis Andriukaitis

Karmenu Vella

Miguel Arias Canete

Neven Mimica

Cecilia Malmstrom

Johannes Hahn

Guenther Oettinger

Jyrki Katainen

Valdis Dombrovskis

Maros Sefcovic

Andrus Ansip

Kristalina Georgieva

Federica Mogherini

Frans Timmermans

No offense meant but would you want this group of people running your country and deciding on all the policies?

It's a good thing they weren't running the country and deciding on all the policies. What a load of hyperbolic bullsh*t.

[teatree]

_{Its wonderful to see them all now disowning what they said during their campaign. IDS has already denied the 350 million pounds for the NHS even though there is a picture of him standing in front of the Battle bus with the claim on it.}

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/eu-referendum-brexit-vote-leave-iain-duncan-smith-nhs

_{Farage also denying he ever said any such thing and for the Tory party to have made that claim was wrong. However unfortunately for him there is a video recording of him on Question time doing just that claiming the money should be used on the NHS.}

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/nigel-farage-350-million-pledge-to-fund-the-nhs-was-a-mistake/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-nigel-farage-nhs-350-million-pounds-live-health-service-u-turn-a7102831.html

You have fallen for the propaganda of the pro remain press.

In the clip of Farage appearing on 'Question Time' before the referendum, when he said there would be extra money for the NHS he was referring to the figure of 10bn pounds, which is the net annual contribution to the EU (total money paid in minus total money received back). This is the official figure.

In the clip of Farage on daytime TV he was referring to the 'Vote Leave' campaign, OF WHICH HE HAD NO INVOLVEMENT. He said the figure of 350m paid weekly to the EU, which was put on the bus by 'Vote Leave', was misleading because it did not factor in the money received back.

The Independent has spliced two different videos together where he is making two different points. Ironic that they are accusing other people of lying.

Clearly, there has been exaggeration and misdirection from both camps, but ultimately they were never campaigning for office. There was never any way they could deliver on any promise, it was a referendum not a general election.

Well I have just watched the clip of Farage claiming that we should spend the 10 billion we will save by not being in the EU on the NHS etc and now like everyone else he is backtracking even on that figure along with all the others. You are quite right about the two video clips in the first Farage is telling everyone about the extra cash and in the second he is then denying that any such promise was ever made by him. He definitely states that extra cash going into the NHS as a result of not making any contributions to the EU its as clear as day on the video. The second video just shows him reneging on that.

I think your claim that this was propaganda is plain wrong its very obvious to anyone that they are two different video clips, the first of him making the promise before the vote and the second after the Brexit vote saying he didn't.

I guess his statement that should the majority also being less than about 4% that would mean a second referendum is also propaganda.

No.

In the clip about the 350 million he was talking about the 'Vote Leave' campaign's figure which they wrote on the side of a bus. Again, Farage had no part in the 'Vote Leave' campaign! He was criticizing the 'Vote Leave' campaign for putting that figure on the bus.

The clip in which he is talking about 10bn pounds is the NET figure, a totally different figure. This figure of 10bn WILL be available to the UK government as it is the total amount paid in less rebates.

In short, THE TWO FIGURES IN THE CLIPS ARE TWO DIFFERENT FIGURES.

[teatree]

Is the EU commission undemocratic and unelected, yes.

Was immigration numbers above the levels the government quoted, yes

Was the sovereignty of the UK taken away and rules, laws and regulations affected by the EU, yes

For me the first one was enough so I can't see a justified argument and it would seem many others would agree. That's why they voted last Thursday for leave.

I take it you understand that you will have no say in who is about to be appointed as the next PM of your country. Neither will you have any say in who he appoints to any of the executive positions in his government. Perhaps you need to leave.

In the UK we vote for the party not the front man.

Edited June 28, 2016 by teatree

[teatree]

Calm down Andrew. You're ranting aimlessly. Nobody knows the make up of the next set of political teams yet, and it's a non-issue until a general election is called.

I don't know what on earth you are talking about and I suspect neither do you. The next general election is due in about 4 years but in the next few months we will get a new PM and a completely new cabinet and you haven't got a clue who any of them are going to be.

And they can be voted out at the next election if we don't like their performance.

[SgtRock]

Carlos Moedas

Margrethe Vestager

Corina Cretu

Tibor Navracsics

Vera Jourova

Elzbieta Bienkowska

Violeta Bulc

Phil Hogan

Christos Stylianides

Pieere Moscovici

Marianne Thyssen

Dimitris Avramopoulos

Vytenis Andriukaitis

Karmenu Vella

Miguel Arias Canete

Neven Mimica

Cecilia Malmstrom

Johannes Hahn

Guenther Oettinger

Jyrki Katainen

Valdis Dombrovskis

Maros Sefcovic

Andrus Ansip

Kristalina Georgieva

Federica Mogherini

Frans Timmermans

No offense meant but would you want this group of people running your country and deciding on all the policies?

It doesn't matter who the names are. As we have seen in recent days, they all report to Germany anyway.

It would appear that you are correct.

According to Merkel, she will be conducting the Brexit negotiations

• She said she would conduct the Brexit negotiations taking into account Germany and the EU’s own interests first and foremost. She also reassured Germans living in the UK that Germany would work to give them all the assurances they need about their future.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jun/28/brexit-live-cameron-eu-leaders-brussels-corbyn-confidence

[pitrevie]

Calm down Andrew. You're ranting aimlessly. Nobody knows the make up of the next set of political teams yet, and it's a non-issue until a general election is called.

I don't know what on earth you are talking about and I suspect neither do you. The next general election is due in about 4 years but in the next few months we will get a new PM and a completely new cabinet and you haven't got a clue who any of them are going to be.

And they can be voted out at the next election if we don't like their performance.

But nobody who voted at the last election voted for the person who is about to become PM nor any of those who who will form the government. So this new government will have no mandate and we will have to wait four years to do anything about it.

[chiang mai]

Is the EU commission undemocratic and unelected, yes.

Was immigration numbers above the levels the government quoted, yes

Was the sovereignty of the UK taken away and rules, laws and regulations affected by the EU, yes

For me the first one was enough so I can't see a justified argument and it would seem many others would agree. That's why they voted last Thursday for leave.

I take it you understand that you will have no say in who is about to be appointed as the next PM of your country. Neither will you have any say in who he appoints to any of the executive positions in his government. Perhaps you need to leave.

In the UK we vote for the party not the front man.

Except, the front man is always known before an election for a particular party.

As the current party in power now changes horses in mid flood, the new front man could easily turn out to be somebody massively unacceptable to many, ergo, the same party would not win at a general election if that person were their leader.

Boris as PM, tell me it's a joke or a bad dream.

[Gweiloman]

No offense but do you really want Boris running the UK as your PM?

Better than some foreigner that doesn't understand cricket and how paint dries. At least he was born in the UK and speaks proper.

Boris was born in the US, he renounced his citizenship about two months ago because he wanted to become PM!

My bad, thanks for that. So you mean that he can have dual nationality as the Mayor of London but not if he wants to become PM?

[ilostmypassword]

Here's another example of how the Leavers deceived people on the referendum. They promised that a leave vote would benefit British fishing men with greater catches.. Because, you know, the mostly conservative leaders have always been first and foremost concerned for the British worker. On the other hand there's this:

One thing is clear: the UK government cannot settle back into its old habit of privileging a handful of large companies to the detriment of the UK’s small-scale fishermen. It wasn’t the EU that gave almost two-thirds of the entire fishing quota of England and Wales to just three companies - it was the British government.”

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jun/28/british-fishermen-warned-brexit-will-not-mean-greater-catches

[chiang mai]

No offense but do you really want Boris running the UK as your PM?

Better than some foreigner that doesn't understand cricket and how paint dries. At least he was born in the UK and speaks proper.

Boris was born in the US, he renounced his citizenship about two months ago because he wanted to become PM!

My bad, thanks for that. So you mean that he can have dual nationality as the Mayor of London but not if he wants to become PM?

It seems that way. The situation is not unlike the American system whereby foreigner born applicants can be made Governor of a state but not President of the country, e.g Schwarzenegger

and California.

[Gweiloman]

Carlos Moedas

Margrethe Vestager

Corina Cretu

Tibor Navracsics

Vera Jourova

Elzbieta Bienkowska

Violeta Bulc

Phil Hogan

Christos Stylianides

Pieere Moscovici

Marianne Thyssen

Dimitris Avramopoulos

Vytenis Andriukaitis

Karmenu Vella

Miguel Arias Canete

Neven Mimica

Cecilia Malmstrom

Johannes Hahn

Guenther Oettinger

Jyrki Katainen

Valdis Dombrovskis

Maros Sefcovic

Andrus Ansip

Kristalina Georgieva

Federica Mogherini

Frans Timmermans

No offense meant but would you want this group of people running your country and deciding on all the policies?

It's a good thing they weren't running the country and deciding on all the policies. What a load of hyperbolic bullsh*t.

The EU's standard decision-making procedure is known as 'codecision'. This means the European Parliament has to approve EU legislation together with the Council based on a proposal from the Commission. (http://ec.europa.eu/atwork/decision-making/index_en.htm)

Before replying, please do some research on the workings of the Council and Parliament.

[ilostmypassword]

Better than some foreigner that doesn't understand cricket and how paint dries. At least he was born in the UK and speaks proper.

Boris was born in the US, he renounced his citizenship about two months ago because he wanted to become PM!

My bad, thanks for that. So you mean that he can have dual nationality as the Mayor of London but not if he wants to become PM?

According to this bbc page, not only could he have dual citizenship, but he doesn't need to have UK citizenship at all to become prime minister. He could also be a citizen of Ireland or any Commonwealth country. http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-27371673

[Gweiloman]

Here's another example of how the Leavers deceived people on the referendum. They promised that a leave vote would benefit British fishing men with greater catches.. Because, you know, the mostly conservative leaders have always been first and foremost concerned for the British worker. On the other hand there's this:

One thing is clear: the UK government cannot settle back into its old habit of privileging a handful of large companies to the detriment of the UK’s small-scale fishermen. It wasn’t the EU that gave almost two-thirds of the entire fishing quota of England and Wales to just three companies - it was the British government.”

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jun/28/british-fishermen-warned-brexit-will-not-mean-greater-catches

It seems to me that you are mixing up apples with oranges.

The EU sets the fishing quote for the UK. If the UK is out of the EU, they need not respect this quota if they don't want to.

The allocation of any quota is a different matter altogether.

[chiang mai]

Better than some foreigner that doesn't understand cricket and how paint dries. At least he was born in the UK and speaks proper.

Boris was born in the US, he renounced his citizenship about two months ago because he wanted to become PM!

My bad, thanks for that. So you mean that he can have dual nationality as the Mayor of London but not if he wants to become PM?

According to this bbc page, not only could he have dual citizenship, but he doesn't need to have UK citizenship at all to become prime minister. He could also be a citizen of Ireland or any Commonwealth country. http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-27371673

OK so substitute commonwealth for UK citizen, pedantic at best.